derd.6413 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"ReinaSolo.5042" said: > > > > > > > > So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **1)**The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **2)** Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it. > > > > > > > > **The pros of doing things this way :** less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players. > > > > > > > > **The cons :**Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... *Shrugs* Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3)**Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4)** And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video.. > > > > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"ReinaSolo.5042" said: > > > > > > > > So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **1)**The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **2)** Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it. > > > > > > > > **The pros of doing things this way :** less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players. > > > > > > > > **The cons :**Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... *Shrugs* Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3)**Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4)** And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video.. > > > > > > > > > > Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals. > > > > > > > > the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion." > > > > > > No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point. > > > > while i doubt a new race goes through the zhaitan arc, they still need story on how they became the (new) commander. and "i was there when he died so i replaced him" is just dumb/poor story telling. > > > > also what about everything else i mentioned? > > > > >(all armor skins need to fit, dialog, animations, etc. etc.) > > > > > > Armor skins I can agree with, their own dialog sure but only during combat (In the case of rev the chatter with the spirits.) Tengu have combat animations, Im pretty sure armor would fit them fine as they stand more upright than a charr and have a better model now thanks to HoT as a whole. The storyline could be the lead up of you joining under the commander ( Generic commander) And leading to their deaths at the end of your small story. An Episode in the living story as a comparison if not two could be an appropriate size as to how it happens. > > You also forget there is no lore for the revenants, there was no explanation only that they exist and you are one and bam there you go. So I mean just because you dont want the new race unless it hits all the boxes of a dated system in which they don't even use at all does not mean others like myself would not just be happy to finally be able to play our tengu. EsO has wardens start at morrowind and not in the original campaign, you have to actively go seek out the story for them to be apart of it and then its on to business as usual. > > I dislike all the races at this point and really was upset that I never got to be my tengu whom I hoped would be here, So Im a bit biased and I honestly don't care if they don't have a personal story or leveling zone ect. I want to be my character, the one I most likely would enjoy the most based on their appearance and I understand your reservations but Arena-net can do as they please. If they decided to go this route then it would be because it was best; Granted I doubt they will add anything close to this as they would rather add some more lucrative (I can milk this on the gem store) type parts. Im sorry I got you so miffed about my desire to play my favorite race, I guess Im just tired of being forced to play characters I don't enjoy to be in a universe I do enjoy. There is lore behind rev it's just badly done and ppl are still complaining about him but most have just given up and do you really want tengu to be as rushed feeling like rev? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I'm a bit confused; would that mean only Tengu characters could play the Living Story Episode(s)? What happens if one does not care to create a Tengu character? They just miss out on that Living Story? Those rewards? Etc? Why would the 'Commander' die, if you are the 'Commander'? It's all very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"ReinaSolo.5042" said: > > > > > > > So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **1)**The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **2)** Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it. > > > > > > > **The pros of doing things this way :** less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players. > > > > > > > **The cons :**Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... *Shrugs* Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3)**Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4)** And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'... > > > > > > > > > > > > Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do. > > > > > > > > > > > > With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world. > > > > > > > > > > the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video.. > > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"ReinaSolo.5042" said: > > > > > > > So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **1)**The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **2)** Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it. > > > > > > > **The pros of doing things this way :** less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players. > > > > > > > **The cons :**Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... *Shrugs* Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3)**Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4)** And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'... > > > > > > > > > > > > Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do. > > > > > > > > > > > > With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world. > > > > > > > > > > the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video.. > > > > > > > > Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals. > > > > > > the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion." > > > > No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point. > > The personal story is a major chunk of content. It's not nothing. It may be nothing to you because you've played it, but it's not nothing to new players that haven't. To rob them of the experience of playing the personal story would be wrong. > > > The entire argument on how to bring in a new race seems to center around the argument that second class development is ok. No, second class development is not ok. if you want crappy second rate development go play a game from EA. I'd say it's easy to dismiss an option hypothetically, but in reality, if given the option of something vs nothing, it's not so easily dismissed then. I'm not suggesting so called "second class races" but rather shortcuts can still bring a quality result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > I'm a bit confused; would that mean only Tengu characters could play the Living Story Episode(s)? What happens if one does not care to create a Tengu character? They just miss out on that Living Story? Those rewards? Etc? > Why would the 'Commander' die, if you are the 'Commander'? > It's all very confusing. I believe he meant to give tengu a personal story that amounts to a couple of lw episodes instead of something equal to core races personal story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalon Leodegrance.1073 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 For the Commander argument, wasn't it mentioned that there were multiple Commanders after the PC? It isn't unlikely that Trahearne made a Tengu one. As for making suggestions in this forum, give it up. All the responses you'll get will just boil down to "But muh development resources/time!!1!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Frankly, if they were to add a new race - I'd want them to do it with a bang. No cheap route... everything from the start, all armors and all weapons. A beautiful starting zone, city and everything else. Took them forever to decide we needed mounts but they did it with a bang in the end. I'd expect a similar quality with anything new they are going to add like housing and any new races or weapons. You can't make us wait for years just to slap a new skin on old models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Avalon Leodegrance.1073" said: > For the Commander argument, wasn't it mentioned that there were multiple Commanders after the PC? It isn't unlikely that Trahearne made a Tengu one. > > As for making suggestions in this forum, give it up. All the responses you'll get will just boil down to "But muh development resources/time!!1!" In this thread, I see a wide range of opinions, ranging from people who love (or at least like) the idea, via those that express concerns for various parts of the limitations, to those that outright hate (or at least dislike) the idea. There are also people who question whether or not it'd be worth the development time, effort, and money. How did you make that out to be 'All the responses you'll get will just boil down to "But muh development resources/time!!1!"'? In my opinion this has been a very healthy thread. As for the matter in question, I most likely wouldn't want to play such a limited race; I like to play out the long story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 If they add a new race I would expect all the current fashion wars to be available. A cohesive world is important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > I'm a bit confused; would that mean only Tengu characters could play the Living Story Episode(s)? What happens if one does not care to create a Tengu character? They just miss out on that Living Story? Those rewards? Etc? > > Why would the 'Commander' die, if you are the 'Commander'? > > It's all very confusing. > > I believe he meant to give tengu a personal story that amounts to a couple of lw episodes instead of something equal to core races personal story Ok, do only Tengu characters get to play that quarter's Living World Story? Or is the proposal that Tengu character _do_ get their own Personal Story? I thought it said "no Personal Story". Confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile? > > Personally? Because I think about 40% of the armor is gaudy garbage. If they were to cut most of the available armor for a new race to only specific distinct pieces (or just all together) and keep outfits (which I think about 20% is gaudy garbage, 40% is great looking and the other 40% is kinda meh but distinct enough to have a purpose to wear on certain occasions) I would be perfectly fine limiting the layered clothing for any new races because the game has nowhere to go but introduce more clothing options down the line anyway. Ah, but here lies the problem. No two players would agree on which skins belong to which category. So, you might end up with getting only the "garbage" options available for that new race, with all the ones you consider good being unavailable. What then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > I'm a bit confused; would that mean only Tengu characters could play the Living Story Episode(s)? What happens if one does not care to create a Tengu character? They just miss out on that Living Story? Those rewards? Etc? > > > Why would the 'Commander' die, if you are the 'Commander'? > > > It's all very confusing. > > > > I believe he meant to give tengu a personal story that amounts to a couple of lw episodes instead of something equal to core races personal story > > Ok, do only Tengu characters get to play that quarter's Living World Story? Or is the proposal that Tengu character _do_ get their own Personal Story? I thought it said "no Personal Story". Confusing. From what i gathered it was a personal story at the scale of a LW episode. So kinda but not really. More of an introduction episode for a tengu character then personal story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point. Oh, well, I was responding to this post. "No personal story" and kill the commander (which is yourself...I guess). Confusing, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Dantert.1803" said: > Hello everyone, > > I was talking with a friend of mine about the good ol' topic of having a new playable race and weapon types in Gw2. > I think that it would be possible to have them if they are not retroactive, what I mean by that is that you get a new race but it starts with a few armors (and obviously all outfits) and has no access to the old armor sets. Same with the weapons, you get a new weapon type but that weapon type doesn't get added to the older sets. > This would mean a lot less work on the character/weapon team, less problems with armor clipping and so on. > Also this topic wuld be applied to the base story. Not being able to play the Gw2 vanilla and expansions that came before the release of the race or being able to play them but with just a few tweaks to justify the introduction of a new race. > > My question is, would you be fine with this? > Personally I would be totally fine with those limitations. > I'm just saying this if we ever get new races or weapons I'm not saying that we will get them. I heard already the people that think that they prefer not to have a new race or that they think it's too much work for arenanet, thia is not the point of this post, so if that is your reply you can save yourself some time and avoid this thread :D Sounds like all you want is a combat tonic really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReinaSolo.5042 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I think a personal story is important when it comes to introducing a character, especially if it is a new playable race. Not only for new players, but also because by doing so, we can get more info on the race's lore, society, you know, general identity. I imagine it as the first three personal story quests of the original five races (Level 1, level 10, and level 20, all depending on choices the player made while creating their character), and then, maybe a fourth part, to explain how that character could also be a commander, as others suggested ^^. I would too like to have everything of Fashion Wars on the character right on, but what I mean is : if it takes time, maybe some pieces of already existing armor could be added afterwards, after all, the skins are avalaible in the wardrobe, we would just need a bit of patience. Or even waiting a bit longer and still getting everything right off the bat, it is but a matter of waiting. Point is : even if I don't get my hopes up to avoid getting disappointed, I know this wouldn't be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile? > > > > Personally? Because I think about 40% of the armor is gaudy garbage. If they were to cut most of the available armor for a new race to only specific distinct pieces (or just all together) and keep outfits (which I think about 20% is gaudy garbage, 40% is great looking and the other 40% is kinda meh but distinct enough to have a purpose to wear on certain occasions) I would be perfectly fine limiting the layered clothing for any new races because the game has nowhere to go but introduce more clothing options down the line anyway. > Ah, but here lies the problem. No two players would agree on which skins belong to which category. So, you might end up with getting only the "garbage" options available for that new race, with all the ones you consider good being unavailable. What then? > > > Are you actually asking me? I already stated I prefer outfits anyway and if they only had garbage options, I'd use the outfits. Unless you're proposing a what if where no outfits are available and only the armor skins I personally don't like, that is a rather outlandish attempt at a gotcha argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > My problem with your response is how you misconstrue quality and quantity to try to counter what is being said. You still haven't actually addressed the points I made, just reiterate past comments by the devs. I've addressed the comments you've made that relate to original poster's idea. > And the only reason I commented about hope is because it was a more outlier response that I hadn't addressed. That is more of a targeted question for you than anyone else. You say you'd love a new race but you don't expect one any time soon. Congratulate! You share a common talking point of the OP and myself. It's kind of the point of the discussion. Now you could Segway to more discussion or double down on a non sequitur. The OP asked if we would be interested in a budget version of a new race, as if the devs had never considered it. I said, well they actually did. And you said, "no, they didn't rule it out, because they didn't specifically rule out every form of 'quality'." If you want to believe that they haven't considered the ideas in the original post, or other ideas that haven't been brought up in this thread (again), you can choose to do so. Or you can re-read the developer comments and realize that they really have thought about this, considered it seriously, and took the time to let us know their decision: no current plans for new playable races in any substantive form. > > ...granted, at this point, the discussion (or those that wished to discuss) have likely already said their piece and the ones who choose to argue them down have had their say. The question is, who convinced whom? The only thing I'm convinced of is posters on this forum get so defensive, they put themselves in a position to refuse discussion. I'm happy to discuss what sorts of new races people prefer (and have done so). Or why I would like to play a new race (and have done so). I also think it's important for people to know what the devs have actually said on the topic. I'm not sure why you think their comments aren't relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > > One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile? > > > > > > Personally? Because I think about 40% of the armor is gaudy garbage. If they were to cut most of the available armor for a new race to only specific distinct pieces (or just all together) and keep outfits (which I think about 20% is gaudy garbage, 40% is great looking and the other 40% is kinda meh but distinct enough to have a purpose to wear on certain occasions) I would be perfectly fine limiting the layered clothing for any new races because the game has nowhere to go but introduce more clothing options down the line anyway. > > Ah, but here lies the problem. No two players would agree on which skins belong to which category. So, you might end up with getting only the "garbage" options available for that new race, with all the ones you consider good being unavailable. What then? > > > > > > > > Are you actually asking me? I already stated I prefer outfits anyway and if they only had garbage options, I'd use the outfits. > > Unless you're proposing a what if where no outfits are available and only the armor skins I personally don't like, that is a rather outlandish attempt at a gotcha argument. No. The "you" here was just an example. What i meant was that if you go only for a limited selection of options, you will find that there are people that would find that selection unappealing. I mean, good for you that you consider outfits to be good. Not everyone agrees with you though. For example, i personally consider 80% of outfits to be garbage, and of the remaining ones there's maybe one that i'd find okay on charr (if you don't know, Tengu, as a most commonly brought up example of a new race, happen to be based around the same wireframe as Charr, which would make most of the outfits not soo good for them). Basically, the more you limit the options (and the proposal would remove vast majority of them) the greater number of players that would find they do not like what was left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > People keep coming up with ways to shoehorn new races in by making “second class races” that don’t have all the features of the current races. Considering that according to gw2efficiency the [percent of players that make and play non human races](https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics) trail behind the human race by a substantial amount, a race that will inevitably be seen as a budget cut race will be played even less, making the new races a loss and the money spent on it would be better spent on other features. A new race that has only a handful of armors will be a race that isn’t played much in a game where the endgame is collecting cosmetics. > > > > Have you thought about the reason why Norns are not popular might possibly be because they are pretty much a copy of humans, just larger and usually more ridiculous looking? > > And the reason Asura, Charr and Sylvari are so far behind? It can't be that Asura and Charr are just copies of humans. It would help greatly if Asura and Charr would actually have proper fashion and clipping issues fixed. And even if only half the amount of human characters are Charr characters, that is still a huge number. I'm not really concerned about getting new races, but the idea "Can it reach or be more popular than humans? if not then it's not worth it" is just disappointing". Yes, it's very obvious that human outnumber all others, but I see good amount and mix of other races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 No guarantee the new race would have 'proper fashion and clipping issues fixed'. In fact, it's likely they _would_ have issues, as the rig would be based on an existing race(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > The OP asked if we would be interested in a budget version of a new race, as if the devs had never considered it. I said, well they actually did. And you said, "no, they didn't rule it out, because they didn't specifically rule out every form of 'quality'." > Again, you're arguing against assumption with an assumption. You're assuming that, because the devs may have contemplated work-arounds, that their final word was in the same context. > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > If you want to believe that they haven't considered the ideas in the original post, or other ideas that haven't been brought up in this thread (again), you can choose to do so. Or you can re-read the developer comments and realize that they really have thought about this, considered it seriously, and took the time to let us know their decision: no current plans for new playable races in any substantive form. > Well what words are you talking about, then? The discussions that I read on the topic with developer commentary weren't in the context of seeking work arounds, short cuts or the like. The reason it's dangerous to base your argument around something like that is because the devs are intentionally vague about what they communicate (for better or worse to those that await) future possible content addition. > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > I'm happy to discuss what sorts of new races people prefer (and have done so). Or why I would like to play a new race (and have done so). > I also think it's important for people to know what the devs have actually said on the topic. I'm not sure why you think their comments aren't relevant. I never said the devs comments were not relevant, but that the assumptions that you draw from those comments can be scrutinized. Are you arguing that your comments are wholly proven and fact? Or more importantly, what are you arguing again? I'm assuming it's that the devs have stated (2 years ago) that new races were something they were and have been considering but due to work constraints and the standard of quality to which they wish to implement them, it isn't a current or pending project for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > > > One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile? > > > > > > > > Personally? Because I think about 40% of the armor is gaudy garbage. If they were to cut most of the available armor for a new race to only specific distinct pieces (or just all together) and keep outfits (which I think about 20% is gaudy garbage, 40% is great looking and the other 40% is kinda meh but distinct enough to have a purpose to wear on certain occasions) I would be perfectly fine limiting the layered clothing for any new races because the game has nowhere to go but introduce more clothing options down the line anyway. > > > Ah, but here lies the problem. No two players would agree on which skins belong to which category. So, you might end up with getting only the "garbage" options available for that new race, with all the ones you consider good being unavailable. What then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you actually asking me? I already stated I prefer outfits anyway and if they only had garbage options, I'd use the outfits. > > > > Unless you're proposing a what if where no outfits are available and only the armor skins I personally don't like, that is a rather outlandish attempt at a gotcha argument. > No. The "you" here was just an example. What i meant was that if you go only for a limited selection of options, you will find that there are people that would find that selection unappealing. > I mean, good for you that you consider outfits to be good. Not everyone agrees with you though. For example, i personally consider 80% of outfits to be garbage, and of the remaining ones there's maybe one that i'd find okay on charr (if you don't know, Tengu, as a most commonly brought up example of a new race, happen to be based around the same wireframe as Charr, which would make most of the outfits not soo good for them). > > Basically, the more you limit the options (and the proposal would remove vast majority of them) the greater number of players that would find they do not like what was left. The argument goes both ways, though. If MMOs are any indication, players will still utilize something they don't agree with and complain to get it changed all the while there will be people that enjoy the addition and any subsequent additions made to it. And I'll reuse the same resturant analogy I used before: you can go to a diner and they will serve you your appetizers and chips and drinks before they bring you your main meal and dessert. Delaying or staggering options doesn't make the prospect of future additional or supplementary cosmetic items less attractive, espectially when you consider that GW2 has little else to add as content but more cosmetic options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > And I'll reuse the same resturant analogy I used before: you can go to a diner and they will serve you your appetizers and chips and drinks before they bring you your main meal and dessert. Not sure what this analogy applies to, because it doesn't seem to have anything with what we're discussing. You're not getting "main meal and desserts" here. You're getting appetizers only. And possibly only from a limited selection, that actually lacks the ones you like. > Delaying or staggering options doesn't make the prospect of future additional or supplementary cosmetic items less attractive, espectially when you consider that GW2 has little else to add as content but more cosmetic options. What "delaying or staggering" options? Your options won't get delayed in OPs suggestion. You simply _won't get_ most of them. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Here's some relatively recent comments. Mike O'Brien has said much the same thing in various AMAs on Reddit (plus mentioning quality of content). Until ANet says otherwise, I think it's clear that a new playable race isn't coming in the near future. It still can be fun to discuss what a new one might look like, how they might implement it, what features they might add or drop. I just think it's misleading to suggest that _anything_ we can say here is going to change their plans. > [Massively OP Summarizes Mike Zadorojny's Comments on New Professions, new Races, 9 April](http://massivelyop.com/2018/04/09/pax-east-2018-guild-wars-2-game-director-mike-zadorojny-on-path-of-fire-monetization-and-more/) > We also talked a bit about things that are probably not happening. New professions, for example, have probably been sidelined forever in favor of new elite specializations; they allow the team to change the feel of a given profession without actually forcing you to play a new character along the way. New races, too, are a lot of work for limited rewards, and any sort of console development is also not something the team is focused on. > Obviously, none of this is set in stone; he stressed that the quote to take away is not that new races will never be added. It’s just not the current direction. **** In August 2017, the [black Lion Daily Herald](https://www.facebook.com/BlackLionDailyHerald) interviewed Mike Zarozdny at the ANet Meet & Greet in Cologne, Germany (aka Köln, DE), shortly after he became the game's Lead Designer. [Full Story](https://redd.it/6vuuzx). Here's the stuff I found interesting (verbatim or [paraphrased]): > * ...have even considered adding a new race for PoF? Mike said new races in GW2 are "not impossible but very unlikely" to appear in the future. Implementing them would require a lot of resources that can be spent better on creating new content relevant for all players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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