aspirine.5839 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Keep it, give one Commander per squad of 25+ wayy more toughness so tag sniping is out of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Lightning.4592 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I hate it - is discourages risk taking (especially for casters and especially for ele's) since before you could push a bit more knowing if you position yourself in x way atleast your mates can pick you up. I can see the uber serious people might like it since it creates a further skill gap between really good groups and less organised groups... but for public play its not great in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriforst.1290 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Scrapper here. Keep down state, and if there is anything to be changed make it so that only one person can revive at a time ( not including npcs so f gyro and search and rescue is still on par). This means there is a bigger reward as an individual for building as a combat medic, and guard balls no longer pop 5 bubbles and insta rez someone. End result is downed state is still there as a mechanic, revive traits and skills are more important and so is things like poison or cleave. The jobb of the other allies who cant help directly with the reviving is now to use revive skills or provide cover for the revival attempt. Down state has the potential to reward resource management and lessens the need for a dedicated healer in this game (offensive builds can support eachother in a last ditch fashion). If i use elixir S to save my own skin i wont have it to safe stomp and secure a 2v1, if i use shadow step to reset the fight im not going to be able to land a guaranteed stomp. Truly outplaying your opponents is having these resources left when the downs start to appear. And in a game with a LOT of spam and precious few long term resources that matter i would be sad to see it go. It also opens up for the kind of skills that are easily avoided but highly rewarding if they hit (for example big old bomb) which forces the enemy to make tough choices (or it would if there wasn't so many spammable invulns stabs etc which is the real problem). One might also consider increasing the stomp speed just a little bit, it gives a great reward but the risks at the moment are way higher. So most people resort to just cleaving and leaving aoes on the corpses. When you pop elixir s in the middle of an enemy zerg and successfully stomp one of them with your super bomb finisher the rush is way greater than accidentally cleaving some guy who was at 5% already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Trejgon.2809 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 it is nice as a event gimmick thing to shake up things once in a while. but as long term solution to anything it requires far more work to rebalance everything into workable state without downed state than it would to "fix" the downed state to alleviate issues people are raising without breaking half of the mode. > @"Sporks.4395" said: > Even in PVP it really has it's problems. You can just poke them to keep them from being able to self res and keep them dead for much longer while you just sit and cap a point. That 10-30 seconds or so before they can even wait to re spawn can really be devastating to the team in a close match. WVW needs no down state. Makes it fun to roam on burst builds again. :-D you do realise that poke deal damage and hp while downed is deteriorating each second? all the guy has to do in your scenario to prevent what you speak of is.... nothing or just spam damaging skills at you to provide enought annoyance for you to realise that you need to finish him quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haythere.7513 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I like the no down state, but I can not vote for it until classes that are supporting groups get bags for healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 This event works because of the double xp. Double xp promotes risk taking in vets and it brings new people into the maps. Insta death by itself deters new people from coming in, much less attempting things alone or with small groups, it deters that guy that learned wvw by zerging from attempting a T3 camp alone and it makes outnumbered maps pip collection stations again. This event works only because it's a package deal, there's no room for growth in insta death by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMelody.6398 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Musty.3148" said: > Keep it permanent. The downed state is a crutch. Don't die, there is the answer. What other game has a "downed state"? it's ludicrous and always was. It has always been my main complaint about GW2. The downed state is just not a good game mechanic. It totally favors zergs with numbers. Period. > Down state is what makes gw2 unique. There are plenty of other pvp games to play if you don't like it. There are zero other games to play if you do like it. It gives the game flavor and different issues to deal with, and it discourages one-shot kills that can't be countered regardless of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 100 percent keep it this is the most fun the combat has ever been in the game imo. Fast brutal and punishing, just the way I like MMO combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Musty.3148" said: > > @"SweetPotato.7456" said: > > No. > > go play other games if you dont want down state. > > care to defend that? Or you just like getting rezzed by your zerg? > lol theres a need to defend why he/she wants downstate to remain?? You do know that the whole game is balanced around having downstate right? I could link a huge number of skills/traits/runes/nourishments that interact with downstate, without it, you didnt made then just subpar, but completely useless lol you even have a profession with is mechanic removed by this, bet you didnt know that... Honestly, while solo roaming become more interesting, big scale right become way to boring...2 zergs staring to each other with a bunch of random AoE in front of them, waiting to see who is gonna be the first to make a push...was allready like this? yes, but with the fear of insta death, literally nobody is making a push, saw even warriors running rifle lol but I bet Guild groups are having a lot of fun, can see a well organized group wipe a pug zerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoEWas.1409 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Has its fun moments and not fun moments. i dont mind not seeing random people in a downed state pop back up when there is nothing around to rally off of, so theres that plus to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"BlueMelody.6398" said: > > @"Musty.3148" said: > > Keep it permanent. The downed state is a crutch. Don't die, there is the answer. What other game has a "downed state"? it's ludicrous and always was. It has always been my main complaint about GW2. The downed state is just not a good game mechanic. It totally favors zergs with numbers. Period. > > > > Down state is what makes gw2 unique. There are plenty of other pvp games to play if you don't like it. There are zero other games to play if you do like it. It gives the game flavor and different issues to deal with, and it discourages one-shot kills that can't be countered regardless of skill. To my knowledge of games that feature downstate... Borderlands, Left4Dead (where it originated I think), Warframe (more current), your Battle Royale Fads, the upcoming Battlefield (you can drag their bodies too!), and prolly some others I forget. D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypto.2069 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I can see the positive and negative sides of no downstate vs downstate. I think it would be cool if we could have a week every so often where no downstate is implemented as it is for this week. (It could provide a nice change of pace and fun. :smile:) Also, as I saw someone mention something like this in similar thread... how about having a RNG chance to roll downstate? Perhaps something like a 40% chance that when you take a lethal blow, you could go into downstate. This might be a nice compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirnale.5914 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 For now, no. Here are the things I noticed: Pros: + More challenging in zerg fights + Skilled and coordinated zergs are being rewarded much better than before (being able to win outnumber much easier) + Skilled roamers can win outnumber much easier + Game become more "hardcore", as the punishment is higher (Also under cons, depending on the viewer) + Forces the skilllevel to raise, as bad movement and positioning will quickly end the "fun" Cons: - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily - too much damage in the game - forcing you to play as tanky as possible: Spellbreaker+Firebrand+tank Necros (trailbl); Yes it was like that before, BUT not on every server and every zerg. This new gameplay enforces the meta even more simply because people doesn't want to die, as they cannot get up mid-fight and will most likely miss the fight if they die - Fear of players: Causing pirate ship battle lasting for 10 mins. Zergs rarely push or it takes more than twice as long for a com to decide to push - Encourage the already toxic gameplay: bunch one shot builds, a lot more Com focus and pulls, more acs in open fight even from our side etc. - Lots of traits, skills and runes (and finishing "tricks" like teleport stomp) are useless without downstates - (Less loot, less tagging) - attacking a T3 is harder than ever before, as every dead person will stay dead - sieges are too powerful, especially stacking an army of acs - more deaths=more running to your zerg instead of playing the game - Game become more "hardcore", as the punishment is higher (Also under pros) I'm sure there are a lot of pros and cons, but that's what I noticed while testing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Better not, this is the worst time I ever had in WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 May it never rear its ugly head again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungsmurfen.2861 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I love this change. Zergfights aren't a snoozefest and smallscale is more fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Voted for the wrong one, meant to click keep. getting killed instantly by somebody i cant see is no fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oogabooga.3812 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > For now, no. > > Here are the things I noticed: > Pros: > + More challenging in zerg fights > + Skilled and coordinated zergs are being rewarded much better than before (being able to win outnumber much easier) > + Skilled roamers can win outnumber much easier > + Game become more "hardcore", as the punishment is higher (Also under cons, depending on the viewer) > + Forces the skilllevel to raise, as bad movement and positioning will quickly end the "fun" > > Cons: > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > - too much damage in the game > - forcing you to play as tanky as possible: Spellbreaker+Firebrand+tank Necros (trailbl); Yes it was like that before, BUT not on every server and every zerg. This new gameplay enforces the meta even more simply because people doesn't want to die, as they cannot get up mid-fight and will most likely miss the fight if they die > - Fear of players: Causing pirate ship battle lasting for 10 mins. Zergs rarely push or it takes more than twice as long for a com to decide to push > - Encourage the already toxic gameplay: bunch one shot builds, a lot more Com focus and pulls, more acs in open fight even from our side etc. > - Lots of traits, skills and runes (and finishing "tricks" like teleport stomp) are useless without downstates > - (Less loot, less tagging) > - attacking a T3 is harder than ever before, as every dead person will stay dead > - sieges are too powerful, especially stacking an army of acs > - more deaths=more running to your zerg instead of playing the game > - Game become more "hardcore", as the punishment is higher (Also under pros) > > I'm sure there are a lot of pros and cons, but that's what I noticed while testing it out. Also a list of both pro and con: * A single player trolling a circle is shorter-lived, so objectives are harder to defend * New players to wvw get wasted very quickly and very often * 1-shot ranged builds (e.g. longbow rangers and rifle deadeyes) are a welcome part of zergs * Gankers are aplenty and more effective. They are like lions trailing a herd of wildebeests trying to pick off the slow one in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaruselka.5943 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"coglin.1496" said: > I could support this notion, but I enjoy the scrapper, and untill they adjust the elite specs actual function specialization, I cannot support this. Like coglin I like the no downed state but it neuters a major reason to use the Scrapper which is my main spec.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryrok.1302 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"aspirine.5839" said: > Keep it, give one Commander per squad of 25+ wayy more toughness so tag sniping is out of the picture. Couldn't you solve this by hiding tags from enemies in PVP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryrok.1302 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. In my also - of course - completely uninformed novice opinion, people are hitting with 10-15k unblockable attacks against 2000+ toughness. So no. It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 People posting here thinking no down state would be fully implemented without any changes need to acquire some critical thinking skills. OF COURSE SCRAPPER WILL BE REWORKED IF IT STAYED /keepit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirnale.5914 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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