Specialka.7290 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP. The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I'm Elementalist and I feel too fragile for the change to be permanent. I've been blown up too many times already during the event. Normally, i consider the Elementalist to be fragile already in WvW, and the no-downstate does not improve this fragility. I still like the event for the WXP bonus, but I focus on capping, not on zerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timelord.8190 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 No downed state is great. I think the balance get's better when smaller groups can easier beat a bigger group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Gwaihir.1745" said: > People posting here thinking no down state would be fully implemented without any changes need to acquire some critical thinking skills. OF COURSE SCRAPPER WILL BE REWORKED IF IT STAYED /keepit lol, they haven't reworked function gyro since they released HoT, why start now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 That is oddly worded but down state is very much part of the game and balancing it needs to be in wvw. Not to say its good as is it needs to be nerf less hp less number of times going down and the dmg perversion when going down / condi clears need to be removed comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Great event, should become a permanent feature. Would be very difficult to do obviously since many things are connected to downstate. They should at least nerf downstate and rezzing in WvW. If you go down you should get a debuff for like 60 seconds or so that kills you automatically if you get downed again with it active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryrok.1302 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > I'm Elementalist and I feel too fragile for the change to be permanent. What gear are you wearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Game Slayer.7632 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > nope. they would have to rework so many runes, traits, utilities and classes in general, they have to massively tone down damage too, cause atm u can just be instagibbed. other mmorpgs have a much slower paced combat generally. but in wvw heck even in pvp u can sometimes be down before u even have time to react due to either lag or kitten animations or just u bieng pre-occupied with something else happening in the battle. people are already complaining about powercreep and rightfully so. if this was a more balanced game I woulda given it a chance. Also downstate offers a new mechanic players have to deal with. I honestly never saw how downstate was synonymous with skill less, there is enough cleave to punish reshes and they are skills that allow for insta stomps or rock gazelle launch stomps. Honestly. downstate is fine. If u decide to go outnumbered roaming u should accept that the odds are heavily stacked against u. and that ''bad'' players in numbers will overcome one or fewere good players. there is nothing wrong with that. espically since u also have tools or they are traits available to punish ressing. people that do outnumbered still win thier outnumbered fights even with downstate. tons of vids proving that. for those that whine about bads qq'ing. they sure as hell sound entitled, demaninding an easier time winning outnumbered. if u decide to go rambo u deal with the ramifications. > > Zerging or hording in large groups is a natural thing to do and aren't nessiarily skillles. there is a reason u have a distinction between good and bad commanders. Just run a passive trait like all the other new players and you won't get 1 shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerorogue.9410 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I myself have been enjoying this change immensely. That said, It shouldn't stay. Yes it makes combat a lot simpler, but that has made spike builds king. Downstate allowed battles to be fought with skill rather than who could hit the hardest. I am a fan of these mod weeks. I would love to see a 150% hp week and maybe a no RI week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugabuga.9721 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 No down state simply means those who were winning now win _faster_. Group vs group is first pirate-ship and then when finally someone decides to push -- whoever lands first hit wins and everyone in the group is dead. Commanders complaining that pugs don't just blindly go after them (ha-ha, and then run across whole map? Nope) Small groups are now worse and more dangerous (because one thief can successfully pick on small groups without chance of initially downed players to be ressed). I understand i"can't res while in combat" rule be abandoned for the duration of the event (that would be kind of a normal counter-play). But as-is -- naw. I'm not going to re-spec and re-gear my toons just for this. It's expensive. I don't expect players who are being farmed right now to somehow magically "like" this either. So no. In fact, this shouldn't even last whole week -- weekend long event would be perfectly sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugabuga.9721 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. Generally no. Specifically commander will be tagged very quickly in initial encounter. Then no matter how much toughness you have, gank squad can moa you and then you're a free kill. You can counter one (aegis), but two mesmers + two thieves group has 4 moas available + long range stealth kill without much trouble. It just depends on how "dedicated" to ganking the commander they are (hint, some are _very_ dedicated because it allows them to "spoil" big fights easily). Without adding specific counteracts to stuff like that to a commander "no down state" is basically a "here's an amplifier to your trolling" gift (and you can't res in combat, and one poison field around body puts everyone in combat for quite a while). Side effect -- if we _do_ get these "commander magically immune to some effects" then there'll be a big question of how it scales. Anyone can be a commander of one-man squad. Want an un-moable-thief hunting for players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 This week makes game just fast hunt for kills, it cuts down few options about healing, ressing and focus just on faceroll. dull gameplay. From my point of view downstate is no problem.... rally is. Focus more on active ress than just wait till somebody tagged die. Also i run in small havoc group whole week and just picking ppl in zerg fights ... oneburst them ... run away... again... And sitting on sup ac out of enemy reach when they try ? lol... 3x times that 50+zerg must disengage just coz of 2 person on def siege... so what was happening in fights..... zerg 1 on place... zerg 2 on place... zerg1 start building 3 sup acs ... zerg 2 had 2 options... move away... die at acs :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"The Game Slayer.7632" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > nope. they would have to rework so many runes, traits, utilities and classes in general, they have to massively tone down damage too, cause atm u can just be instagibbed. other mmorpgs have a much slower paced combat generally. but in wvw heck even in pvp u can sometimes be down before u even have time to react due to either lag or kitten animations or just u bieng pre-occupied with something else happening in the battle. people are already complaining about powercreep and rightfully so. if this was a more balanced game I woulda given it a chance. Also downstate offers a new mechanic players have to deal with. I honestly never saw how downstate was synonymous with skill less, there is enough cleave to punish reshes and they are skills that allow for insta stomps or rock gazelle launch stomps. Honestly. downstate is fine. If u decide to go outnumbered roaming u should accept that the odds are heavily stacked against u. and that ''bad'' players in numbers will overcome one or fewere good players. there is nothing wrong with that. espically since u also have tools or they are traits available to punish ressing. people that do outnumbered still win thier outnumbered fights even with downstate. tons of vids proving that. for those that whine about bads qq'ing. they sure as hell sound entitled, demaninding an easier time winning outnumbered. if u decide to go rambo u deal with the ramifications. > > > > Zerging or hording in large groups is a natural thing to do and aren't nessiarily skillles. there is a reason u have a distinction between good and bad commanders. > > Just run a passive trait like all the other new players and you won't get 1 shot. U mean that passive skill that stops that oneshot instagib build for a few seconds and then proceeds to do the same again, or god forbid it's actually condies/boon rip/corrupt and more often then not goes through that passive? the fact that the game moved to a point where passives invulnerabilities are needed and if u miss that u get 100-0'd IS unhealthy. How bout u lots actually accept that that if u wanna do outnumbered rambo U actually ??????? accept the fact that ''bad players'' that band together can beat a ''good player'' such as yourself? ''hurr durr,'' I wanna do outnumbered but I get salty that ''bad players'' working together actually give me a run for my money, so they have to remove an entire ??????? game mechanic that has tactical play for those that are actually good players, and has several utilities, skills, traits and equipment tailored for it that has been in place for years to accomodate my inner rambo. Even tough good players are doing outnumbered perfectly fine even with downstate in place in both pvp and wvw. How bout u getta the ???? outta here with this ???? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I feel like you could get a lot of the same benefits with less associated costs by retaining the downstate but eliminating rallying off kills . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbe.7630 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 i think ill agree with the no down state in WvW if at the same time applied a dynamic queue system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysdude.3824 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > I feel like you could get a lot of the same benefits with less associated costs by retaining the downstate but eliminating rallying off kills . . . I like this suggestion. A happy medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ok I Did It.2854 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 If Anet do keep the no downstate rule, they seriously need to overhaul Arrow Carts, like reduce the damage by them by up to 80%, last night we went to SMC and we had to cata the gate, as the inner gate was being covered by 9 AC's you couldn't even get in long enough to build rams before you got destroyed, and when we got in there where even more AC's on inner lord room waiting, I could see Anet putting in zones in a map where the no downstate rule works, like battle arena's (no siege zones ) that are away from objectives such as towers/keeps etc, and in the battle zones you get x2 WxP etc The other thing they have to look at is the way auto loot works, you can do damage to a zerg get 1 hit killed, and the loot is on the ground before you can WP out, and said loot is despawned before you get back to it, they really need to make all loot go directly into your inventory no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurnshadow.3678 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I think it'd be good to do on a reoccurring basis, like once a month, but not permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metzie.9083 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Arenanet should not come to the thought of even considering changing the game mode so permanently. Permanently introducing the NoDownedState would be a big mistake! I repeat, a **big mistake**! NoDownedState as a sporadic event is OK, fun and quite sufficient. Recurring events makes the WvW more dynamic and diversified. There should be more in the future! Furthermore, it is not necessary to drive a complete, GW2 unique game mechanics into the abyss just because he dislikes. It is not the "downed state" in itself, which triggers many, but rather the differently strong or other classes against weaker "downed skills". This should be discussed seriously and, if necessary, adapted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. > > > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP. > > The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate. The issue always are mesmer and thieves. Which have no risc and high reward gameplay for over five years now. Without downstate the risk of getting killed on one of those classes drops even more. Downstate gives you the option to at least get up someone who got instagibbed from out of stealth and try to catch the attacker. Sure, let's get rid of downstate, but when that happens make stealth break on conditions and hits and cut thieves energy and mesmer invulns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialka.7290 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"geist.9173" said: > > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > > > > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > > > > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. > > > > > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP. > > > > The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate. > > The issue always are mesmer and thieves. Which have no risc and high reward gameplay for over five years now. Without downstate the risk of getting killed on one of those classes drops even more. > Downstate gives you the option to at least get up someone who got instagibbed from out of stealth and try to catch the attacker. > > Sure, let's get rid of downstate, but when that happens make stealth break on conditions and hits and cut thieves energy and mesmer invulns. Sorry but you are wrong. Mesmer are lowrisk/high reward, while Thief are high risk/low reward while everythign else is between those 2 extrems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialka.7290 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > @"geist.9173" said: > > > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > > > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > > > > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem? > > > > > > > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP. > > > > > > The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate. > > > > The issue always are mesmer and thieves. Which have no risc and high reward gameplay for over five years now. Without downstate the risk of getting killed on one of those classes drops even more. > > Downstate gives you the option to at least get up someone who got instagibbed from out of stealth and try to catch the attacker. > > > > Sure, let's get rid of downstate, but when that happens make stealth break on conditions and hits and cut thieves energy and mesmer invulns. > > Sorry but you are wrong. Mesmer are lowrisk/high reward, while Thief are high risk/low reward while everythign else is between those 2 extrems. And a thief can't instagib you out of stealth without warning. He needs to attack you to build up malice on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > I feel like you could get a lot of the same benefits with less associated costs by retaining the downstate but eliminating rallying off kills . . . I like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Ryrok.1302" said: > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > I'm Elementalist and I feel too fragile for the change to be permanent. > > What gear are you wearing? Celestial mostly, with Carion and Soldier ring. With some +5 vitality infusions because of the low base health of the Ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 nope just remove self res and rally.. so u get dropped and only way back up is by ur ally ressing if not u go fully down u cant rally off people anymore etc. more fun that way no downstate just encourages ur to drop all ur shit together on enemy and its over. they cant res they cant protect their downies nothing. gw2 isnt made for insta down thing. u got no insta healer class u got no insta healing pots yet u got insta 1 bang mesmer/thief/ranger massive dmg toons rev/warrior dont cry at me for classes named cus i play all of em except mesmer so dont give me bs they dont do much dmg or they cant do X cus they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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