brannigan.9831 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Look its not rocket science. The class is over-represented in pvp and there is a reason for it. Its too good right now. If they aren't op why are so many people playing it? Spell Breaker has too much of everything. Too much damage, too much cc, and too much sustain. Warriors are always either op or up A-net never gets them close to right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnidLarr.1478 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Don't you guys notice that only those who used OP classes like necros who usually won 1v1 and owned others complain about spellbreakers? They consider they are the only ones who win all games. Don't you agree? Guardian has no problem dealing with spellbreakers, other type warriors can deal with spellbreakers, and people who do think can even easily defeat spellbreakers. There are always certain classes having advantages against other classes and some other classes can have advantage over the others too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnidLarr.1478 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > Ya'll do realize that if full counter gets proc'ed there is still a time delay on the damage and cc being applied. > > When I fight a spellbreaker, I usually just intentionally hit the counter, and then dodge roll it's attack. dude you are the type of people I talked about, the people who actually "think" before attacking, and that's why you own spellbreakers! and you have my respects! I am a noob pvper that use the easy killing machines to win just for dailies, so some of those "pros" will say I have no right to say anything! because I am those who don't think and run in with a killing machine, and if you think before landing your attacks, you got me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > Don't you guys notice that only those who used OP classes like necros who usually won 1v1 and owned others complain about spellbreakers? They consider they are the only ones who win all games. Don't you agree? Guardian has no problem dealing with spellbreakers, other type warriors can deal with spellbreakers, and people who do think can even easily defeat spellbreakers. There are always certain classes having advantages against other classes and some other classes can have advantage over the others too. The game is not balanced around 1v1 potential. If that was the case Mesmer will own sPvP and they do not. The issue with SB is that their defenses benefit from being attacked by more than 1 player. They can go for prolonged periods of time without being target able, while passively healing for close to 1K per sec in the back ground. They completely shut down any condi dps that cannot remove resistance; basically everyone but necro. And honestly, unless you have a high sustain bruiser with strong power damage, there is not much you can do against SB. FC deals an AOE daze and spreads 5 condi on 8 sec CD. Possible to avoid in 1v1, but in a group fight it will trigger every 8 secs and it does too much for skill that is only supposed to block. The combination of all of the above make them pretty broken in 5v5. I can defeat vast majority of the SBs solo on my guardian, but that means little when the entire fight is heavily controlled by the SB. And this holds true when SB is attacked by multiple opponents as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnidLarr.1478 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @otto.5684 said: > > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > > Don't you guys notice that only those who used OP classes like necros who usually won 1v1 and owned others complain about spellbreakers? They consider they are the only ones who win all games. Don't you agree? Guardian has no problem dealing with spellbreakers, other type warriors can deal with spellbreakers, and people who do think can even easily defeat spellbreakers. There are always certain classes having advantages against other classes and some other classes can have advantage over the others too. > > The game is not balanced around 1v1 potential. If that was the case Mesmer will own sPvP and they do not. The issue with SB is that their defenses benefit from being attacked by more than 1 player. They can go for prolonged periods of time without being target able, while passively healing for close to 1K per sec in the back ground. They completely shut down any condi dps that cannot remove resistance; basically everyone but necro. And honestly, unless you have a high sustain bruiser with strong power damage, there is not much you can do against SB. FC deals an AOE daze and spreads 5 condi on 8 sec CD. Possible to avoid in 1v1, but in a group fight it will trigger every 8 secs and it does too much for skill that is only supposed to block. > > The combination of all of the above make them pretty broken in 5v5. I can defeat vast majority of the SBs solo on my guardian, but that means little when the entire fight is heavily controlled by the SB. And this holds true when SB is attacked by multiple opponents as well. Honestly I play SB and people start knowing how to deal with SB, they don't run into SBs and indeed I need to find ways to get next to them to get the FullC useful, and people are actually learning, and eventually you found SB isn't that OP, but I will say necros most of the time when I took them down to 20% they got something like shields that they can took lots more dmg. I think if you had a range over 400 you don't need to worry about full counter. and in that 8 seconds SB are very vulnerable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Most of the "Spellbreaker OP" cries boil down to "I'm banging my face against this thing and its making a weird noise and hitting me back! HELP!" But I'm far too tired to fight this kitten complaint meta. It's easier to get nerfed, adapt, and still be good than it is to get killed, come whine, get things bubble wrapped for you, then go die some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menem.4307 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 So just when are you allowed to hit a Spellbreaker? Let's take a look: Let's say you walk into a one minute fight with one. 4 seconds of evade from 8 Dodge rolls 5 seconds of taking 0 damage 6 more seconds of 0s from 10 Full Counters 4 seconds from sword evades 9 Seconds of shield block = 28 seconds of no direct damage 12 seconds seconds of stability auto from Last Stand 25 seconds of resistance from Full Counter 12 seconds of resistance from berserker stance = 37 seconds of no condition damage And that's not including time where they might kite or kill you. This is the most OP any class (maybe DH) has ever been in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnidLarr.1478 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @Menem.4307 said: > So just when are you allowed to hit a Spellbreaker? Let's take a look: > > Let's say you walk into a one minute fight with one. > > 4 seconds of evade from 8 Dodge rolls > 10 seconds of taking 0 damage > 6 more seconds of 0s from 10 Full Counters > 4 seconds from sword evades > 9 Seconds of shield block > = 33 seconds of no direct damage > > 12 seconds seconds of stability auto from Last Stand > > 25 seconds of resistance from Full Counter > 12 seconds of resistance from berserker stance > = 37 seconds of no condition damage > > And that's not including time where they might kite or kill you. This is the most OP any class (maybe DH) has ever been in this game. > can you show me the build of that, please? that sounds hella good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @Menem.4307 said: > So just when are you allowed to hit a Spellbreaker? Let's take a look: > > Let's say you walk into a one minute fight with one. > > 4 seconds of evade from 8 Dodge rolls > 10 seconds of taking 0 damage > 6 more seconds of 0s from 10 Full Counters > 4 seconds from sword evades > 9 Seconds of shield block > = 33 seconds of no direct damage > > 12 seconds seconds of stability auto from Last Stand > > 25 seconds of resistance from Full Counter > 12 seconds of resistance from berserker stance > = 37 seconds of no condition damage > > And that's not including time where they might kite or kill you. This is the most OP any class (maybe DH) has ever been in this game. > Lets not run a flawed analysis. The warrior only gets resistance if you hit every full counter, and get hit by the return. Where are you getting 10 seconds of taking 0 damage from? Endure pain only lasts 2 seconds in pvp per minute? The warrior is also not dealing any damage to you during full counter, and is losing his adrenaline to perform it whether or not it hits. He is also not dealing damage to you during dodging. A large part of damage mitigation comes from people actually hitting and subsequently getting hit by full counter. It is not as simple as "How many seconds can a warrior sustain if everything goes right for them in a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menem.4307 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Sorry, that was a mistake. it would be 5 seconds with the Last Stand stance duration. In a team fight that resistance is always going to be up since the warrior will get hit. Full Counter needs a 10 second CD minimum for the paragraph of effects it gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I had a hearty chuckle reading some of these comments. Spellbreaker may not be overpowered, but it's definitely got too much for too little. Now it is countering mindless players by being mindless on its own. Pop that FC at the right time and reap the benefits + it works 100% during teamfights. Someone will definitely trigger it and the whole team is punished by it (how is that not too much?). The skill is strong, very strong, and even though it can be easily evaded or countered by not attacking, a Spellbreaker that is not a dummy will know when to make you pop it, you have to deal damage somehow, he can even catch you mid-frame of some attack (but that takes flawless ping and latency). This aside, someone mentioned that Spellbreaker doesn't do as much damage as some other classes. Of course it doesn't do that much, if it did then it would truly be overpowered. Such statements make me think that some of you are probably just trolling. Scourge for example, it does damage as long as you stand in its face once it pops all the good stuff, so in short, you have to be a golem or a very bad player to let yourself get nuked so easily. Besides, scourge doesn't have mobility, once it is outta juice, it's a safe kill. But if a SB is out of cooldown they have easy and reliable access to blocks and mobility to kite as long as it takes. If it had even more damage than it has now, boy oh boy... that would be a slaughterfest. Overall SB is not that overpowered as we might think, but the thing that grind our gears the most is the ammount of effort we have to put to defeat one and how much a SB has to be skillful to activate Full Counter. Besides, I find myself in fights where I do not trigger or even not get hit by FC, but still, the base damage that can be done is enough to cut down the opponent. And once again, if something goes wrong, pop that shield/GS and kite around till you can drop all of it again. P.S. To people who say that something is counterable. Everything is counterable, it's about how much effort you have to put in it that matters. Even bunker mesmer was counterable back in the day if you knew how to exploit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @Rodzynald.5897 said: > I had a hearty chuckle reading some of these comments. Spellbreaker may not be overpowered, but it's definitely got too much for too little. Now it is countering mindless players by being mindless on its own. A couple things on the argument posted above. I agree with you on the fact that it has "too much for too little", but with different context. Is "countering mindless by being mindless" a problem of the class or a problem of the team? At some point you need to stop blaming a class for exploiting your teammates not being tactful and actually blame the teammates. apart from that, I am fine with either making it do less damage or altering the mechanic in such a way that it cannot proc without a _big stupid obvious tell_, but not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > > @otto.5684 said: > > > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > > > Don't you guys notice that only those who used OP classes like necros who usually won 1v1 and owned others complain about spellbreakers? They consider they are the only ones who win all games. Don't you agree? Guardian has no problem dealing with spellbreakers, other type warriors can deal with spellbreakers, and people who do think can even easily defeat spellbreakers. There are always certain classes having advantages against other classes and some other classes can have advantage over the others too. > > > > The game is not balanced around 1v1 potential. If that was the case Mesmer will own sPvP and they do not. The issue with SB is that their defenses benefit from being attacked by more than 1 player. They can go for prolonged periods of time without being target able, while passively healing for close to 1K per sec in the back ground. They completely shut down any condi dps that cannot remove resistance; basically everyone but necro. And honestly, unless you have a high sustain bruiser with strong power damage, there is not much you can do against SB. FC deals an AOE daze and spreads 5 condi on 8 sec CD. Possible to avoid in 1v1, but in a group fight it will trigger every 8 secs and it does too much for skill that is only supposed to block. > > > > The combination of all of the above make them pretty broken in 5v5. I can defeat vast majority of the SBs solo on my guardian, but that means little when the entire fight is heavily controlled by the SB. And this holds true when SB is attacked by multiple opponents as well. > > Honestly I play SB and people start knowing how to deal with SB, they don't run into SBs and indeed I need to find ways to get next to them to get the FullC useful, and people are actually learning, and eventually you found SB isn't that OP, but I will say necros most of the time when I took them down to 20% they got something like shields that they can took lots more dmg. I think if you had a range over 400 you don't need to worry about full counter. and in that 8 seconds SB are very vulnerable "If you stand far away from me, outside of the conquest capture point, and do not attack me you will be fine." How convenient. Keep saying that SB is not going to get nerfed. Nov 7 will be a very disappointing day for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 You just have to accumulate adrenaline and pop one skill, how hard can it be? Yes, it is the fault of the player who, as mentioned above, mindlessly attacks. That's the hardest way to learn. What I also meant by saying that is the fact that it still stays a mindless skill on the level of pressing one button that can change the outcome of a fight even against good players. For example, I know how to not get hit by it, It also has a very distinctive sound too. However, as a radiant hammer, a witty SB waits to use FC while I am doing mighty blow, I can't cancel the animation by any other means than weap swap, which is hard to do after weap swap when I am chaining a combo. This proves that SB is a skillful one, I agree. But it's a one skill that can bring so much destruction that it gives too much for just one button press every 8 seconds. Besides, if we focus just on the skill, one the easiest part of Full Counter is how frequent it is. It should be punishing as it is now, but with just two significant changes. Don't make it damage others, only the one who triggered it if the one who did it is in the radius, or spread the damage evenly among players who are hurt. Now it makes SB both a flawless 1v1 brawler and a teamfighter. The second thing is that FC should see a longer cooldown. Perhaps 14 seconds. Let it copy conditions, give resistance and stab, heck maybe even more damage, I don't care about that part. Just make it so that SB has to be witty to use it too, so that FC doesn't feel like a free candy button every few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It's not a simple matter of "just don't attack". As far as I can tell, FC triggers off all kinds of stuff players can't control: * ground aoes * pets, minions, turrets, clones * on-dodge traits like minesweeper * random attacks crossing the battlefield not even intended for the SB Fact is, it's GOING to trigger every time. If the SB knows what they're doing, they can even force it to trigger by taking advantage of pre-existing attacks on the battlefield. It's (relatively) easy to play around in a 1v1, but it's impossible in a real fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Lets not also forget that the "activation time" of the counter strike portion of FC that comes out after absorbing a strike is 0.25s. **This is faster than human reflex time.** This would be fine if FC wasn't the most loaded skill in all of GW2 history, but it is. It offers far too much as a single skill and on top of that isn't avoidable if used by a semi-skilled warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @Menem.4307 said: > So just when are you allowed to hit a Spellbreaker? Let's take a look: > > Let's say you walk into a one minute fight with one. > > 4 seconds of evade from 8 Dodge rolls > 5 seconds of taking 0 damage > 6 more seconds of 0s from 10 Full Counters > 4 seconds from sword evades > 9 Seconds of shield block > = 28 seconds of no direct damage > > 12 seconds seconds of stability auto from Last Stand > > 25 seconds of resistance from Full Counter > 12 seconds of resistance from berserker stance > = 37 seconds of no condition damage > > And that's not including time where they might kite or kill you. This is the most OP any class (maybe DH) has ever been in this game. > Yep sounds about right. WAYYYYYYY too much mitigation. Don't forget that spellbreaker can flee with the greatsword, heal up and then reset the fight. You also didn't even take into consideration SB passive healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakka.2153 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I will say this as a warrior main, Spellbreakers do decent damage and can "absorb" a lot of damage via shield block, counter and warriors high mobility. It is this that makes them strong, op? Not sure i'd go that far. A group of people can easily bring them down. They are far superior in 1v1 situations and even some 2v1 situations. The thing is we need to bring other classes in-line with scourge and spellbreaker instead of the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnidLarr.1478 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 > @otto.5684 said: > > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > > > @otto.5684 said: > > > > @EnidLarr.1478 said: > > > > Don't you guys notice that only those who used OP classes like necros who usually won 1v1 and owned others complain about spellbreakers? They consider they are the only ones who win all games. Don't you agree? Guardian has no problem dealing with spellbreakers, other type warriors can deal with spellbreakers, and people who do think can even easily defeat spellbreakers. There are always certain classes having advantages against other classes and some other classes can have advantage over the others too. > > > > > > The game is not balanced around 1v1 potential. If that was the case Mesmer will own sPvP and they do not. The issue with SB is that their defenses benefit from being attacked by more than 1 player. They can go for prolonged periods of time without being target able, while passively healing for close to 1K per sec in the back ground. They completely shut down any condi dps that cannot remove resistance; basically everyone but necro. And honestly, unless you have a high sustain bruiser with strong power damage, there is not much you can do against SB. FC deals an AOE daze and spreads 5 condi on 8 sec CD. Possible to avoid in 1v1, but in a group fight it will trigger every 8 secs and it does too much for skill that is only supposed to block. > > > > > > The combination of all of the above make them pretty broken in 5v5. I can defeat vast majority of the SBs solo on my guardian, but that means little when the entire fight is heavily controlled by the SB. And this holds true when SB is attacked by multiple opponents as well. > > > > Honestly I play SB and people start knowing how to deal with SB, they don't run into SBs and indeed I need to find ways to get next to them to get the FullC useful, and people are actually learning, and eventually you found SB isn't that OP, but I will say necros most of the time when I took them down to 20% they got something like shields that they can took lots more dmg. I think if you had a range over 400 you don't need to worry about full counter. and in that 8 seconds SB are very vulnerable > > "If you stand far away from me, outside of the conquest capture point, and do not attack me you will be fine." How convenient. Keep saying that SB is not going to get nerfed. Nov 7 will be a very disappointing day for you. doesn't matter to me my SB is lvl 1 just for pvp and if there's something remarkable i will use it and against all, the reason i do pvp is for daily and all that i wanted to do is NOT TO MAKE my team lose just because a dude doing dailies for pvp. so i do all these for good. besides that other than engi or necro i have all classes in lvl 80 so a nerf on anything doesn't hurt me but i will use a new OP class and make some whiners cry lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now