SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > > > And how do you calculate wvw population? by someone that logs in for 1s or 1h in wvw for the week? Oh boy could we use free accounts to log into every server and inflate their numbers? > > > > Well, the obvious answer is "the same way that ANet do", which is based on the amount of time spent playing WvW. > > wrong Anet disregards WvW population as a whole and only focuses on playtime. Bring back the old model that made WvW competitive in 2012-2014. I'm really not clear what you mean by "WvW population as a whole" here. How do **you** define the WvW population? > Ever since this change nobody plays WvW anymore. There is no incentive to play other than Pips. Once Pips are finished, time to logoff. Ah, if only. That would make completing those WvW dailies super-trivial. Unfortunately, this is clearly not true, as can be demonstrated by logging in to WvW any time around the clock, and observing that there are players found. Though, if you do know a server that has zero people in any WvW map, tell me your secret. Then I can get all the WvW rewards for free, no challenge at all. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiri.4257 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 "Competitive" is a questionable word to use. GvGs were a fad then. The Truths about GvG: 1) GvGers are the most publicly vocal minority of wvw 2) For every 1 GvG player, there are 10 zerglings 3) For every 1 zergling there's at least 3 ktrainers or fairweathers. 4) 2012-2014 appeared competitive, but it really wasn't. because anet didn't cap server populations and players just stacked for better competition. 5) There is more of an incentive to wvw than GvG. As you said, we get pips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazzarr.1349 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > Is there any way that A-net can show server population with links? Don't punish players for playing the game. Server status shouldn't be based on playtime. They could if they wanted.. but they've made it clear in the past that there's no way they will ever give out the actual numbers on any server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 See now, I've WvW'd on 5 different accounts this week. Once one finished Diamond I swapped to another. Sometimes I even played on both at once. So player hours is far more accurate than by "accounts". From my point of view the majority of players have multiple accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wootrick.4168 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? And look, before I catch a lot of shit for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 > @"wootrick.4168" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) > > As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. > > It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? > > And look, before I catch a lot of kitten for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. I am on the same server. We still have coverage. We don't have the massive NA. All being said, I would like to see the server hours broken down by hours and time zones. Kills and deaths can be deceptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > @"Shining One.1635" said: > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > Server status shouldn't be based on playtime. > > What metric(s) would you use to determine server population and lock status? > > > > > > Active players in a server who login daily. Leave play-time alone. A person playing 5-6 hours shouldn't make up for 2-3 people who play for 2-3 hours. Open all servers and only link servers with below average population with another server. Take out the transferring of servers after a 2-3 month timeframe so there are no population imbalances. > > Except if you have 1000 players that play 6 hours per day that makes 6000 man hours playtime. 2000 players playing 3 hours per day is 6000 hours playtime. 6 of one/half dozen of the other. 6000 hours is 6000 hours. You get a tryhard link server with a tryhard host server and that combo could easily triple or quadruple the playtime of a normal server and link. That makes a built-in population imbalance. This is one reason everyone hated playing against a server with a marathon commander. Not because there were hundreds more players, but because said commander played 36-48 hours at a time. TLDR: Play hours are play hours whether 5, 10 , or 25 people make that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 > @"wootrick.4168" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) > > As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. > > It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? > > And look, before I catch a lot of kitten for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. I don't hate your server at all. I played on it for over a year. Your server has a history of manipulating situations to their own advantage. Hibernating, Alt accounts on different servers, Skipping off to EotM just to name a few. I know many of those players have moved to different servers recently, and hopefully populations will regulate themselves. ANet knows exactly how many players are on each server, and they evaluate these numbers at some random intervals. I believe one of these days your server will open back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > > > > And how do you calculate wvw population? by someone that logs in for 1s or 1h in wvw for the week? Oh boy could we use free accounts to log into every server and inflate their numbers? > > > > > > Well, the obvious answer is "the same way that ANet do", which is based on the amount of time spent playing WvW. > > > > wrong Anet disregards WvW population as a whole and only focuses on playtime. Bring back the old model that made WvW competitive in 2012-2014. > > I'm really not clear what you mean by "WvW population as a whole" here. How do **you** define the WvW population? > > > Ever since this change nobody plays WvW anymore. There is no incentive to play other than Pips. Once Pips are finished, time to logoff. > > Ah, if only. That would make completing those WvW dailies super-trivial. Unfortunately, this is clearly not true, as can be demonstrated by logging in to WvW any time around the clock, and observing that there are players found. > > Though, if you do know a server that has zero people in any WvW map, tell me your secret. Then I can get all the WvW rewards for free, no challenge at all. ;) Transfer to Gate of Madness lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoEWas.1409 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Let me just reference Exibit A.) > "Gaile Gray.6029" said: > A message from McKenna Berdrow: > The above graph displays an example of what makes up a world under the World Restructuring system. **Keep in mind, due to the algorithm used to keep worlds balanced, the number of alliances, guilds, and individual players can be wildly different between worlds, but the participation and playtime should be relatively the same.** > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Known issue for plays hours to cause imbalance, not sure why some of you only notice it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpchow.7416 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Player's gaming time is an unstable data. You could play 1 hour in the first month and 700 hours in next month. How could you estimate a server's population with a vary factor? The numbers of player in a server is a stable data. I dont understand why anet use an inaccuracy factor to calculate the server population. I think their intention is creating an imbalance match-up and push the gem sales. Lastly, will the new alliance system population is balance by gaming time but not player count? 250 - 4hours players vs 500 - 2hours players is kind of balanced game? 11 iceland football players vs 9 brazil football players because brazil players have better skill? Anet's logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 They cannot just use a straight up player count for wvw because the servers are not made up of only wvw players, and you have to track the wvw players somehow to separate them from the entire server population, so they use play time and wvw level gains to a lesser extent to do so. There is really no other sensible way to do this because play times can vary wildly from 10-30min to do the wvw dailies to 8 hours of playtime in a day per person, a server could have a 100 10-30min daily casuals vs a server with 100 hardcore 8hr players and obviously that wouldn't even be close to being fair and yet that's what your wvw population only count would do to check. Now if some of you want to unlock your server, then the first step is to stop afking for long periods of time in wvw, I'm talking to you maguuma players. Also please stop with the real world comparison of teams, none of those games run for 24/7 through multiple timezones, and none of them have uneven teams because that can be controlled for the duration of a match you know like a spvp match, but you cannot control wvw because it was made for big numbers, and it's open to enter all the time, and you will only ever get even teams if all 4 maps in a matchup is full and queued which only happens on reset night for a few hours. That's the whole kitten point of WORLD VS WORLD VS WORLD. So please stop with that comparison. The old model also tracked population by the entire server population not just the wvw players, I don't know where some of you are getting the idea it was just the wvw population it tracked then. This caused some servers who were more pve heavy to get trapped in the server locks which killed their ability to recruit for wvw. The current server system gives them no flexibility to move players around for more even matchups other than links which is far from perfect. Players also rejected the idea to do smaller servers for links so that they had access to more pieces to put together links. Now they have no choice but to go to the alliance system now, because after 6 years players are still too dumb to fix the system themselves and continue to stack and break server populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrolan.9608 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"wootrick.4168" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) > > > > As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. > > > > It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? > > > > And look, before I catch a lot of kitten for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. > > I am on the same server. We still have coverage. We don't have the massive NA. > > All being said, I would like to see the server hours broken down by hours and time zones. How could they do that without players exploiting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"wootrick.4168" said: > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > > > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) > > > > > > As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. > > > > > > It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? > > > > > > And look, before I catch a lot of kitten for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. > > > > I am on the same server. We still have coverage. We don't have the massive NA. > > > > All being said, I would like to see the server hours broken down by hours and time zones. > > How could they do that without players exploiting it? > > Players are and have been exploiting it. That's why a move to a link happened. It just took someone to care. Also: I said I'd like to see the new numbers. I don't say I thought it would be a good idea. Because honestly, I don't know if it would or wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"wootrick.4168" said: > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > > > The only other two servers I know about pop that are not linked should stay locked, because of play hours. (Which is why I think play hours need to stay, not population) > > > > > > As someone on the locked server, I disagree (hint: we're the one everyone hates.... oh wait mag is unpopular too. The other other hated one) , I really wish Anet would open us up, even for a very limited time/only for new players/for a small cap of people/something/anything. > > > > > > It's Saturday night and we're literally outmanned on 3/4 maps- our server is pretty much only dedicated wvw-ers and remnants of guilds that have long since left the game because we've been closed/unlinked for so long, and I would like to see the community stay healthy. Besides, we just want to make new friends - Anet let JQ and kain do it, so why not let us keep up? > > > > > > And look, before I catch a lot of kitten for this or kick off a " I hate XYZ server", I'm just expressing my opinion in hopes Anet will read it before relinks. I'm sure it is an unpopular one and many disagree. > > > > I am on the same server. We still have coverage. We don't have the massive NA. > > > > All being said, I would like to see the server hours broken down by hours and time zones. > > How could they do that without players exploiting it? > Tbh the only way to stop the exploit is to limit accounts to 1 transfer per account and accounts which have already transferred in the past will not be able too anymore. Since Anet likes the profit from transfers, it won't happen lol. We hope that it does though. There would be no bandwagonning with a limitation such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"cpchow.7416" said: > Player's gaming time is an unstable data. You could play 1 hour in the first month and 700 hours in next month. How could you estimate a server's population with a vary factor? This is why they use a rolling average and why we see servers open up after a few weeks when the players stop playing en-masse (see Kodash, JQ, etc.). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_average "A moving average is commonly used with time series data to smooth out short-term fluctuations and highlight longer-term trends or cycles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiri.4257 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > Known issue for plays hours to cause imbalance, not sure why some of you only notice it now. play hours take into account fairweathers. it's a good metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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