No new raid?

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > @"bigbobpataki.4796" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > > \No new raid is just disappointing. 7 months since last raid wing...

> > > > >

> > > > > It's okay, now we can use our infinte development ressources to add "eazy modes" because the content is just impossible to solo /s

> > > >

> > > > Raids in GW2 are easy mode, basically 10 man dungeons. If they ever brought out "easy mode" I would quit this game. The casuals already have most of the game to play, let the tryhards have at least one niche

> > >

> > > Yup and that is why you must wait for your content, it’s niche.

> > >

> > > Edit: if it wasn’t niche and Anet wanted everyone to get in there, a new raid would have more resources and probably have release cadence similar to Fractals. It has been explained that people don’t want this, so you must wait.

> >

> > Just curious if you can point me in the right direction where anet said that. Anet says a lot of stuff, hard for me to keep track

>

> While Anet has specifically said they currently do not design raids for people of all skill levels (I believe those were the exact words), the heavier argument that they are niche content comes from the raiders posting on these forums. All you have to do is look at any thread where someone talks about the accessibility of raids in GW2. Once the topic is broached, the next 4-5 responses are invariably "well, raiding isn't for your" or "raiding is designed for XYZ style player" or, the worst of them all, "people just have to change how they play if they want to raid." Those are the definition of niche.

>

> You cannot say that raids are only for a smaller percentage of the player base and then turn around and expect a cadence on par - or even close to on par - with the rest of the game. The game mode simply doesn't warrant the same schedule of changes/new content as open world or something like WvW. By necessity - given their current approach and the community desire that raids be somewhat exclusive/niche - it warrants a smaller team and less emphasis in the game itself.

>

> I know that isn't what some want to hear (and I am shocked I haven't been jumped on already for saying so above), but GW2 isn't a raiding game. There are plenty of those out there. Raiding is supplemental, at best, to the GW2 experience. If Anet were to ever move to actually change that - to significantly increase the output of raids and integrate the experience into the greater game experience - they would have to address the playstyle and skill accessibility issue, something they have indicated they do not plan to do.

 

No one is jumping on you because it’s the cold hard truth, that’s all.

 

Edit: Any counter argument to this essentially would negate previous points posted on other threads.

[Tyson.5160]

I’m still going to hold onto my original assessment and say that there will 8 raid wings by 2021.

[bigbobpataki.4796]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > @"bigbobpataki.4796" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > > \No new raid is just disappointing. 7 months since last raid wing...

> > > > >

> > > > > It's okay, now we can use our infinte development ressources to add "eazy modes" because the content is just impossible to solo /s

> > > >

> > > > Raids in GW2 are easy mode, basically 10 man dungeons. If they ever brought out "easy mode" I would quit this game. The casuals already have most of the game to play, let the tryhards have at least one niche

> > >

> > > Yup and that is why you must wait for your content, it’s niche.

> > >

> > > Edit: if it wasn’t niche and Anet wanted everyone to get in there, a new raid would have more resources and probably have release cadence similar to Fractals. It has been explained that people don’t want this, so you must wait.

> >

> > Just curious if you can point me in the right direction where anet said that. Anet says a lot of stuff, hard for me to keep track

>

> While Anet has specifically said they currently do not design raids for people of all skill levels (I believe those were the exact words), the heavier argument that they are niche content comes from the raiders posting on these forums. All you have to do is look at any thread where someone talks about the accessibility of raids in GW2. Once the topic is broached, the next 4-5 responses are invariably "well, raiding isn't for your" or "raiding is designed for XYZ style player" or, the worst of them all, "people just have to change how they play if they want to raid." Those are the definition of niche.

>

> You cannot say that raids are only for a smaller percentage of the player base and then turn around and expect a cadence on par - or even close to on par - with the rest of the game. The game mode simply doesn't warrant the same schedule of changes/new content as open world or something like WvW. By necessity - given their current approach and the community desire that raids be somewhat exclusive/niche - it warrants a smaller team and less emphasis in the game itself.

>

> I know that isn't what some want to hear (and I am shocked I haven't been jumped on already for saying so above), but GW2 isn't a raiding game. There are plenty of those out there. Raiding is supplemental, at best, to the GW2 experience. If Anet were to ever move to actually change that - to significantly increase the output of raids and integrate the experience into the greater game experience - they would have to address the playstyle and skill accessibility issue, something they have indicated they do not plan to do.

 

So the fact that the raid community is small and "niche" (ignoring the fact that one of the more popular recent GW2 livestreams was a raiding tournament) justifies the only new content for the game mode to be two bosses and two events since February 7th of last year? For comparison's sake, the first three wings came out between November 17, 2015 and June 7, 2016. Then we had to wait until February of the following year, and then the following November.

 

Nobody is asking for a cadence on par with open world releases, we just want what we used to have, which was a steady, rough 3 or 4 month release schedule. Communication would be nice as well, considering the only thing we have to work with is the aforementioned "We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season." I'm not going to get into the whole "raiding is inaccessible for everyone" argument, that horse is long dead, so I'll just say that there are training groups that organize on discords and in LFR that will take pretty much anyone.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"bigbobpataki.4796" said:

> > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > > @"bigbobpataki.4796" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > > > > > @"JokerM.6021" said:

> > > > > > > \No new raid is just disappointing. 7 months since last raid wing...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's okay, now we can use our infinte development ressources to add "eazy modes" because the content is just impossible to solo /s

> > > > >

> > > > > Raids in GW2 are easy mode, basically 10 man dungeons. If they ever brought out "easy mode" I would quit this game. The casuals already have most of the game to play, let the tryhards have at least one niche

> > > >

> > > > Yup and that is why you must wait for your content, it’s niche.

> > > >

> > > > Edit: if it wasn’t niche and Anet wanted everyone to get in there, a new raid would have more resources and probably have release cadence similar to Fractals. It has been explained that people don’t want this, so you must wait.

> > >

> > > Just curious if you can point me in the right direction where anet said that. Anet says a lot of stuff, hard for me to keep track

> >

> > While Anet has specifically said they currently do not design raids for people of all skill levels (I believe those were the exact words), the heavier argument that they are niche content comes from the raiders posting on these forums. All you have to do is look at any thread where someone talks about the accessibility of raids in GW2. Once the topic is broached, the next 4-5 responses are invariably "well, raiding isn't for your" or "raiding is designed for XYZ style player" or, the worst of them all, "people just have to change how they play if they want to raid." Those are the definition of niche.

> >

> > You cannot say that raids are only for a smaller percentage of the player base and then turn around and expect a cadence on par - or even close to on par - with the rest of the game. The game mode simply doesn't warrant the same schedule of changes/new content as open world or something like WvW. By necessity - given their current approach and the community desire that raids be somewhat exclusive/niche - it warrants a smaller team and less emphasis in the game itself.

> >

> > I know that isn't what some want to hear (and I am shocked I haven't been jumped on already for saying so above), but GW2 isn't a raiding game. There are plenty of those out there. Raiding is supplemental, at best, to the GW2 experience. If Anet were to ever move to actually change that - to significantly increase the output of raids and integrate the experience into the greater game experience - they would have to address the playstyle and skill accessibility issue, something they have indicated they do not plan to do.

>

> So the fact that the raid community is small and "niche" (ignoring the fact that one of the more popular recent GW2 livestreams was a raiding tournament) justifies the only new content for the game mode to be two bosses and two events since February 7th of last year? For comparison's sake, the first three wings came out between November 17, 2015 and June 7, 2016. Then we had to wait until February of the following year, and then the following November.

>

> Nobody is asking for a cadence on par with open world releases, we just want what we used to have, which was a steady, tri-monthly release schedule. Communication would be nice as well, considering the only thing we have to work with is the aforementioned "We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season." I'm not going to get into the whole "raiding is inaccessible for everyone" argument, that horse is long dead, so I'll just say that there are training groups that organize on discords and in LFR that will take pretty much anyone.

 

I agree it would be nice if there was a little bit of communication or even if they said, yeah there will be one raid wing per year, just so everyone knows what to expect.

 

The original raids were released during the Post HoT content drought and they were all attached to the Forsaken Thicket story. Perhaps the team had additional help while Anet was figuring out LW season 3 as well as the PoF. Once Living World picked up speed, you’ll notice that the release cadence for raids went crooked, which we can only speculate, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

The problem is Anet can release the content with larger gaps because it’s niche, while the majority of the players are hopping into the LW content in droves.

[thrag.9740]

meh, if your bored with gw2, just go play another game. Gw2 will be here when you get back. Too many people get hooked on an mmo and expect the mmo to be the only thing they play. This leads to disappointment. Go check out some other games. If you like challenging content dark souls and blood borne are great choices. Or my personal favorite challenging game, super meat boy (sequel coming soon!)

[Henry.5713]

But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

[maddoctor.2738]

We know another Raid is coming, so maybe it's delayed because this time it will have multiple wings. No reason to be so pessimistic about it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

 

Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

[Henry.5713]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

>

> Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

 

Never said they shouldn't please the masses by focusing on the more casual aspects of the game, something they have continued to do so for a while now. This still won't fix most of the issues present, simply distract people for a while again.

[Rednik.3809]

Less than 10% of players ever killed anything in W5. Idk why anyone is seriously expecting more than one raid release per year, if not per expansion.

[yann.1946]

Well i feel 1 Raid per 3 LS patches would be fair. I just think everyone wants some faster releases. ;)

[sigur.9453]

> @"Rednik.3809" said:

> Less than 10% of players ever killed anything in W5. Idk why anyone is seriously expecting more than one raid release per year, if not per expansion.

 

then they should actually say that. i hate that "maybe next time" attitude.

but i get it, they wouldn´t have sold me pof if they did.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Rednik.3809" said:

> Less than 10% of players ever killed anything in W5. Idk why anyone is seriously expecting more than one raid release per year, if not per expansion.

 

It might be a bit shocking to read but 40% finished Daybreak and 29% finished A Bug in the System. I guess they shouldn't be releasing any Living World episodes anymore since the majority isn't playing it (LOL).

[Turin.6921]

I love all the replies of the type: "What did you expect you are niche and you do not want accessibility". You really have so much bias against raiders that instead of either ignoring the subject or being supportive with lack content you jump in with "i told you so" (even though irrelevant with the accessibility topic). This community can be so badly behaved sometimes.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

Got to go with it's niche content.

 

Yes, the raid scene is suffering because of the slow releases but you can't argue niche content which is designed for a minority of the player base and at the same time demand more of said content.

 

Here's my take on this (and I think quite a few hardcore raiders might fall in this category): if you want a raid centric MMO which fully accommodates your 8h/day (or more) play style, GW2 will never be for you. You just might be better off playing WoW and sticking to their constant cycle of new gear and different tiers of raid content item delivery.

 

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> meh, if your bored with gw2, just go play another game. Gw2 will be here when you get back. Too many people get hooked on an mmo and expect the mmo to be the only thing they play. This leads to disappointment. Go check out some other games. If you like challenging content dark souls and blood borne are great choices. Or my personal favorite challenging game, super meat boy (sequel coming soon!)

 

This basically if you still want to stick with GW2 as a MMO. If you burn out on the content, take a break. That's the beauty of GW2, you can come back months later and find the game with new story, map, fractal and raid content.

[Turin.6921]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Got to go with it's niche content.

>

> Yes, the raid scene is suffering because of the slow releases but you can't argue niche content which is designed for a minority of the player base and at the same time demand more of said content.

>

> Here's my take on this (and I think quite a few hardcore raiders might fall in this category): if you want a raid centric MMO which fully accommodates your 8h/day (or more) play style, GW2 will never be for you. You just might be better off playing WoW and sticking to their constant cycle of new gear and different tiers of raid content item delivery.

>

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > meh, if your bored with gw2, just go play another game. Gw2 will be here when you get back. Too many people get hooked on an mmo and expect the mmo to be the only thing they play. This leads to disappointment. Go check out some other games. If you like challenging content dark souls and blood borne are great choices. Or my personal favorite challenging game, super meat boy (sequel coming soon!)

>

> This basically if you still want to stick with GW2 as a MMO. If you burn out on the content, take a break. That's the beauty of GW2, you can come back months later and find the game with new story, map, fractal and raid content.

 

That is a good point. If you are in this game only for raids it is not a good choice.

 

But my main issue is basically the previous communication on the matter. They did say what they were planning and they did create expectations that are very close to not be met. If they came out and said: "We can only handle one wing per year" then its fine. No expectations no real problem.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Got to go with it's niche content.

> >

> > Yes, the raid scene is suffering because of the slow releases but you can't argue niche content which is designed for a minority of the player base and at the same time demand more of said content.

> >

> > Here's my take on this (and I think quite a few hardcore raiders might fall in this category): if you want a raid centric MMO which fully accommodates your 8h/day (or more) play style, GW2 will never be for you. You just might be better off playing WoW and sticking to their constant cycle of new gear and different tiers of raid content item delivery.

> >

> > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > meh, if your bored with gw2, just go play another game. Gw2 will be here when you get back. Too many people get hooked on an mmo and expect the mmo to be the only thing they play. This leads to disappointment. Go check out some other games. If you like challenging content dark souls and blood borne are great choices. Or my personal favorite challenging game, super meat boy (sequel coming soon!)

> >

> > This basically if you still want to stick with GW2 as a MMO. If you burn out on the content, take a break. That's the beauty of GW2, you can come back months later and find the game with new story, map, fractal and raid content.

>

> That is a good point. If you are in this game only for raids it is not a good choice.

>

> But my main issue is basically the previous communication on the matter. They did say what they were planning and they did create expectations that are very close to not be met. If they came out and said: "We can only handle one wing per year" then its fine. No expectations no real problem.

 

Yes, that does seem like a blunder and it would be nice to have some clarification on that point. I do believe the polish Arenanet is aiming for simply requires more than expected work and thus creates delays.

 

My personal hope is to see a new raid wing before Living World Season 4 ends, then get another raid wing with the hopefully next expansion next yer.

 

On the matter of a 3rd expansion, now there has been no official announcement on this but I feel it makes a lot of sense:

 

- time wise Living World Season 4 would approximately end around April 2019 (if we assume 3 month cycles) with episode 6, same as Living World Season 3

- World of Warcraft has an expansion this August, so people will have grown bored of the game in about 6-9 months in time to return middle of next year

- if we are to assume regular 2 year cycles between expansions

 

I guess as raiders all we can do is hope and see.

[Henry.5713]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Rednik.3809" said:

> > Less than 10% of players ever killed anything in W5. Idk why anyone is seriously expecting more than one raid release per year, if not per expansion.

>

> It might be a bit shocking to read but 40% finished Daybreak and 29% finished A Bug in the System. I guess they shouldn't be releasing any Living World episodes anymore since the majority isn't playing it (LOL).

 

Pretty much this. I sometimes wonder where the idea comes from that some vast majority (let's say at least 75%) cares deeply about the LS. Not to mention all of us who only finished the LS because it seemed appropriate to do so at some point.

There would be very little content left in this game if all development was halted on anything that is not enjoyed by some supposed majority.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

>

> Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

 

We get it, you don't like raids. Now move along please

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

> >

> > Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

>

> We get it, you don't like raids. Now move along please

 

Apart from unnecessary personal innuendo, do you think I am wrong with my statement?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

> > >

> > > Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

> >

> > We get it, you don't like raids. Now move along please

>

> Apart from unnecessary personal innuendo, do you think I am wrong with my statement?

 

Since either is impossible to prove your question isn't really meaningful. But yes, I thing you're wrong.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> Well the original quote read:

>

> > "We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season." - Jason 6 months ago

>

> That is not sounding like a promise to me, but I guess people would want it to be.

Notice, that it doesn't even say "more often". Just "more regularly". Releasing raids on a regular 12-month shedule would fulfill it as well.

 

It's just some people read much more from this than was actually said, and now they are angry that their (unfounded) expectations weren't met.

 

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> I love all the replies of the type: "What did you expect you are niche and you do not want accessibility". You really have so much bias against raiders that instead of either ignoring the subject or being supportive with lack content you jump in with "i told you so" (even though irrelevant with the accessibility topic). This community can be so badly behaved sometimes.

 

Just don't care about them. This forum is their last "bastion" since reddit has zero place for anti-raiding threads any longer after it was shown to numerous players that they can raid as well with the help of raiding initiatives and raid training guilds. Almost everyone that wanted to raid is or already has raided. The crowd pleading for easier raids and anything related to that is absolutely negligible these days.

 

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

> > > >

> > > > Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

> > >

> > > We get it, you don't like raids. Now move along please

> >

> > Apart from unnecessary personal innuendo, do you think I am wrong with my statement?

>

> Since either is impossible to prove your question isn't really meaningful. But yes, I thing you're wrong.

 

The only proof you need is what you see in game. Anet releases what brings most revenue. AKA we are getting new mount instead of raid :)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > > But, but, but... we got a new mount! That solves everything.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually it does. They gonna get more money and more positive buzz from this single mount and skins related than from whole raid scene ever.

> > > >

> > > > We get it, you don't like raids. Now move along please

> > >

> > > Apart from unnecessary personal innuendo, do you think I am wrong with my statement?

> >

> > Since either is impossible to prove your question isn't really meaningful. But yes, I thing you're wrong.

>

> The only proof you need is what you see in game. Anet releases what brings most revenue. AKA we are getting new mount instead of raid :)

 

Except since PoF we got a new raid (Hall of Chains) before we got a new mount (the rollerbeetle). And rest assured, we'll be getting yet another raid before we get yet another mount. Your "proof" doesn't hold against even basic scrutiny.