GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. But they are bringing back alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Since I'm not deep into understanding efficiency stuff, is it who finished story or completed all (hidden too) achievents related to the episode? > > Here, a more in-depth analysis (with Raid completion next to relevant episodes): > First number is those that finished the FIRST story instance (and FIRST Raid boss), the second number is those that finished the LAST instance (LAST Raid boss) > > Heart of Thorns was initiated by 92% but finished by 68.5%, > Out of the Shadows 68.6% - 61% / Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5% - 12.8% > Rising Flames: 63.5% - 58.3% > A Crack in the Ice: 63.5% - 56% > The Head of the Snake: 59.9% - 51.1% > Flashpoint: 55.9% - 49.7% > One Path Ends: 52.2% - 46.5% > > Path of Fire: > Path of Fire: 71.9% - 55.2% > Daybreak: 48.5% - 38.5% / Hall of Chains: 7.45% - 4.9% > A Bug in the System: 36% - 29% > > You got me curious with that question, so I went and found out the percentages of those that finished the meta achievements of every episode: > Out of the Shadows 26.4% > Rising Flames: 21.5% > A Crack in the Ice: 14.2% > The Head of the Snake: 17.2% > Flashpoint: 19.8% > One Path Ends: 11.1% > Daybreak: 8.6% > A Bug in the System: 5.3% > > Interesting results. A Crack in the Ice meta was completed too few times compared to the others, that annoying Elixir probably played a role. > Curiously enough, the Raid first boss kill rates are very close to the episode meta achievement completion rates. Out of the Shadows: 26.4%, Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5%, Daybreak: 8.6%, Hall of Chains: 7.45%. Meaning a great number of those that finished the meta achievements, also played the Raids. Maybe it is also a matter of how the meta events are? I will never make the full list of meta events of A crack in the Ice because I am unable to kill the beast quick enough on my own, and I will never complete Rising flames(?) because it involves a jumping puzzle. Still I have around 70% of these achievements and played on these maps quite often. Does that make them a success or not? You can of course argue the same way with raids when you leave out of the equation that you do not get any token from raids if you fail to complete them. Maybe the number of people who began to play PoF is lower because HoT was a disappointment for them? The drop is 20%, pretty steep if you ask me. Daybreak lost nearly 23%, Bug lost already half of the initial players, so PoF obviously follows the same way as HoT. Maybe mounts were not what the majority of people wanted? Maybe the monetarism of mount skins? I don´t know. My guess for the lower number of players who completed Daybreak and bug in the system is because the maps are harder and more filled with better mobs, or the story instances are too long? I am a rather patient person and still was watching the clock after some attempts. The maze structure of Bug in the System is surely not helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > But they are bringing back alliances. So they say, Ill believe it when I See it and can play it. Id also like guilds to matter, and guilds to play a role in a game called "Guild wars 2" Again I find that far more important than raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim.4596 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand **First** of, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. I feel like the great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and ultimately how dynamic it makes both Open World and Raids contents. Open world fights are great and Raids allow you to take it up a notch. **Secondly**, I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. In my opinion, the PVP scene is _seriously_ lacking despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it more understandable to players, it would have died a long time ago. So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed in a "hot topic" on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"tim.4596" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me wank off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to wank off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. What are you talking about?? Teams are doing raids with fewer numbers (in some cases as low as 4 out of 10 possible), in all kinds of weird compositions and in low gear quality. Do you *really* believe you need zerk/viper to play raids?? A semi-adequate group will do just fine on cele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"tim.4596" said: > **First** of, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. I feel like the great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and ultimately how dynamic it makes both Open World and Raids contents. Open world fights are great and Raids allow you to take it up a notch. They are appreciated by as many players as the Meta Achievements of the episodes. Same with the Griffon Races, the new Bounties and the new collections. Raids are niche, but so is nearly everything else of substance in the game. MMORPGs are a collection of niche content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"tim.4596" said: > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > It´s a little bit off topic, but as someone who is part of that crowd, I can give you my strictly personal reasons to disapprove of the very idea of raids: *GW2 is casual entertainment. What mainly brought me here was GW1 and the DAOC like RvR. *I want to go afk whenever I want or need. I am not 16 anymore and don´t have the time or the will to sit out people who have the same reason as me to be there but simply don´t give a skritt about said responsibility. *The concept bores me to tears. I tried several raids and simply fail to understand the fascination. Regarding challenge, you can also have other challenging events that raids. If followed consequently, season 1 could have been such a challenge if the world would have really changed depending on how players behaved. Take a look at the intention of the 13th Crusade from WH40 with what I mean. Chaos scored a small victory over the empire, so Cadia is now under even more constant siege. The excitement comes from the impression that your actions mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geisterlicht.6083 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"tim.4596" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand > > **First** of, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. I feel like the great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and ultimately how dynamic it makes both Open World and Raids contents. Open world fights are great and Raids allow you to take it up a notch. > > **Secondly**, I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. In my opinion, the PVP scene is _seriously_ lacking despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it more understandable to players, it would have died a long time ago. > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed in a "hot topic" on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > I know a lot of people that never wanted ten man challenging content. Five man content is just way more accessible. And this is something that frequently comes up when we chat on discord, I and many of my friendlist would love it, if they would abandon raids for more new fractals with optional CMs. Edit: but I also can see on reddit and in forums that there are people that enjoy 10man raids, so it looks they have to split their ressources^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Torolan.5816" said: > Maybe it is also a matter of how the meta events are? I will never make the full list of meta events of A crack in the Ice because I am unable to kill the beast quick enough on my own, and I will never complete Rising flames(?) because it involves a jumping puzzle. Still I have around 70% of these achievements and played on these maps quite often. Does that make them a success or not? You can of course argue the same way with raids when you leave out of the equation that you do not get any token from raids if you fail to complete them. > > Maybe the number of people who began to play PoF is lower because HoT was a disappointment for them? The drop is 20%, pretty steep if you ask me. Daybreak lost nearly 23%, Bug lost already half of the initial players, so PoF obviously follows the same way as HoT. Maybe mounts were not what the majority of people wanted? Maybe the monetarism of mount skins? I don´t know. > > My guess for the lower number of players who completed Daybreak and bug in the system is because the maps are harder and more filled with better mobs, or the story instances are too long? I am a rather patient person and still was watching the clock after some attempts. The maze structure of Bug in the System is surely not helpful too. There are many reasons to have results like these, and unfortunately there has never been a healthy discussion on the subject, and especially on ways to make it better. But, the percentages of meta completions being very close to first boss kills of Raids shows that if there is a problem with player retention, it's not with Raids. No amount of tinkering Raids would make those other percentages go higher. For example, no amount of tweaking Hall of Chains would increase the number of Daybreak meta completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim.4596 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. I'm afraid, I'd have to agree with that, raid players do get a bit too enthusiastic at how well they are performing in this game, while all they truly are doing is throwing out big numbers by executing a rotation the best they can, and completely disregarding all other mechanics. Even though, the truly elitist community can actually execute both really well, but that's an even more niche community. > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) I think, MMORPG's are slowly starting to drift towards 5man content more than 10man content any way, since forming a 10man party is tedious and often seems to bring a lot of unnecessary requirements, which in my opinion should be left alone by discovering the content and thinking of ways as a group to defeat the boss. I remember when console games where a thing with RPG's, I would not play the game to follow a Guide.... where is the fun in that. So hopefully Fractals will slowly become more high end content. > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) I see, I feel like that "selling point" as you say so is becoming more and more an issue. I think that making content based on WHAT SELL is understandable, but that it pushes back creativity. So sure, make content about what sells, undeniably, but don't put all your resources on that please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > But they are bringing back alliances. > > So they say, Ill believe it when I See it and can play it. Id also like guilds to matter, and guilds to play a role in a game called "Guild wars 2" Again I find that far more important than raids. Compared to guilds, raids at least have a dev team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. > > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) > > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) Whoa, at least we know where you stand on this issue. On the other hand I'm extremely grateful that you are not a game designer and I can continue to have fun with my static group every week as we clear raids and wait for a new wing to pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterPeanut.9746 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I find it interesting that there is an overlap of people who are content with never adding additional development resources to the raid team, but also are very invested in having easier access to the raid content and its reward structure. Can't have one without the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. Not to mention the subscription and development team size. As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. Well, at least there was a motivator to do the new raids :wink: Also, the gear was not useless, it was replaced by doing the new raids. Outside you were extremely strong with BiS gear. But I admit it got boring as well, but at least there was constant content for raiders. I don't raid that often anymore but I see the problems for raiders here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. > > Well, at least there was a motivator to do the new raids :wink: > Also, the gear was not useless, it was replaced by doing the new raids. Outside you were extremely strong with BiS gear. But I admit it got boring as well, but at least there was constant content for raiders. I don't raid that often anymore but I see the problems for raiders here. Oh I absolutely agree on the lack of raid content and I get people who come to GW2 from other MMOs and love the world, lore, itemization and game (I was a long time WoW player up to the end of BC) wanting just a little bit more. We just have to take what we can and hope the next expansion and way to it get even more people into GW2. Maybe the raid team will get increased in size with more people playing the content then. :3 Until then I personally am happy in taking breaks (and then playing way to much when getting back in). I just can't take the roller-coaster item treadmill MMOs any more myself and loved GW1 and GW2 for their unique approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"tim.4596" said: > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Less. You forget that there are people raiding that do not really care about challenge, or intricaties of combat engine. There are people there that are in purely/primarily for loot, and/or social aspect. And their numbers aren't small. > @"tim.4596" said: > Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? Yes. No. Depends. It's a heavily subjective topic - but you have to understand, that not everyone agrees with you on raids being great. For many different reasons. > or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed in a "hot topic" on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? Again, depends. Personally, I very much can complete raids (and _am_ raiding), but that doesn't stop me from being sure that raids are a negative addition to the game, and the game would be better without them. There are people that aren't raiding because they simply dislike that type of content. There are also people for whom raids are just too difficult to be able to enjoy them. > @"tim.4596" said: > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Sure you can. Or you can make different sort of challenges, not the ones that primarily lie in the realm of teambuilding. Besides, you have to remember that the challenge is a highly subjective factor. The same content may be laughably easy to some, while being prohibitively hard to others. So, even without raids, the game would not be non-challenging. There might be no challenge to some players, that's true, but that doesn't mean it would be the same for everyone else. > @"tim.4596" said: > Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? In a way, yes. You are assuming however that "getting better at computer game" is something everyone inherently values. It isn't. Even many players that do that do not value it, really. What they are after is not self-betterment, but recognition, which is something quite different. And many players wants the game to be not a tool of self-improvement, but just plain entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. I would easily a gear treadmill if it would mean faster content. But it does not work that way. Item spiral and new raids are independed of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. > > > > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) > > > > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) > > Whoa, at least we know where you stand on this issue. > > On the other hand I'm extremely grateful that you are not a game designer and I can continue to have fun with my static group every week as we clear raids and wait for a new wing to pop. If I was a Dev raids would never of happened to begin with, I would of focused on making fractals the end game or bringing in more dungeons tied to the events of the story. I also would of made damn sure the eliet specs were not the cluster they are now, Reworked the core classes to make them viable so you don't need to run the elite specs and that we stayed true to the core of what this game was built upon. I would not of caved to the whiny elitists who crave to have "Big Dick" syndrom, there are other games that cater to that. But then again if I had been a dev, the core gw2 would of been completely different and would of had a more defined destination we also would probably have larger expansions with more content and the living world would be the focus of the team inbetween expansions. We would split between expansion and LW so that maybe half would be on each, Guilds would of gotten more attention and you would only be able to be in one guild but that would give you perks. IT would matter. I could care less what you think or about your static, good for you. Go wank to your team being able to kill the raid wings bosses, Im happy that you can and continue to go in and do raids but by no means do I feel that warrants development time in haste or bulk toward another wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xantaria.8726 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. > > > > > > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) > > > > > > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) > > > > Whoa, at least we know where you stand on this issue. > > > > On the other hand I'm extremely grateful that you are not a game designer and I can continue to have fun with my static group every week as we clear raids and wait for a new wing to pop. > > If I was a Dev raids would never of happened to begin with, I would of focused on making fractals the end game or bringing in more dungeons tied to the events of the story. I also would of made kitten sure the eliet specs were not the cluster they are now, Reworked the core classes to make them viable so you don't need to run the elite specs and that we stayed true to the core of what this game was built upon. I would not of caved to the whiny elitists who crave to have "Big kitten" syndrom, there are other games that cater to that. > > But then again if I had been a dev, the core gw2 would of been completely different and would of had a more defined destination we also would probably have larger expansions with more content and the living world would be the focus of the team inbetween expansions. We would split between expansion and LW so that maybe half would be on each, Guilds would of gotten more attention and you would only be able to be in one guild but that would give you perks. IT would matter. I could care less what you think or about your static, good for you. Go kitten to your team being able to kill the raid wings bosses, Im happy that you can and continue to go in and do raids but by no means do I feel that warrants development time in haste or bulk toward another wing. And Anet would have run out of money if you were a dev, since you make no points where the money for those changes would come from (and just cutting of raids wouldnt fill that). Also, you say you hate raiders and their elitistic behavior, yet you arent better the way you say things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Heart of Thorns was initiated by 92% but finished by 68.5%, > Out of the Shadows 68.6% - 61% / Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5% - 12.8% > Rising Flames: 63.5% - 58.3% > A Crack in the Ice: 63.5% - 56% > The Head of the Snake: 59.9% - 51.1% > Flashpoint: 55.9% - 49.7% > One Path Ends: 52.2% - 46.5% > > Path of Fire: > Path of Fire: 71.9% - 55.2% > Daybreak: 48.5% - 38.5% / Hall of Chains: 7.45% - 4.9% > A Bug in the System: 36% - 29% > > You got me curious with that question, so I went and found out the percentages of those that finished the meta achievements of every episode: > Out of the Shadows 26.4% > Rising Flames: 21.5% > A Crack in the Ice: 14.2% > The Head of the Snake: 17.2% > Flashpoint: 19.8% > One Path Ends: 11.1% > Daybreak: 8.6% > A Bug in the System: 5.3% > > Interesting results. A Crack in the Ice meta was completed too few times compared to the others, that annoying Elixir probably played a role. > Curiously enough, the Raid first boss kill rates are very close to the episode meta achievement completion rates. Out of the Shadows: 26.4%, Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5%, Daybreak: 8.6%, Hall of Chains: 7.45%. Meaning a great number of those that finished the meta achievements, also played the Raids. I dont doubt there a connection between achievement hunters and raiders. But with below 10% numbers, even though similar, theres nothing saying how much of each of those are actually the same players. Also age of the content is a huge factor. Even in "older" content like LW3 a downward trend is still apparent. I would speculate that this downward trend is much more pronounced the newer the content is. Ignoring the other factors ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Torolan.5816" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > Since I'm not deep into understanding efficiency stuff, is it who finished story or completed all (hidden too) achievents related to the episode? > > > > Here, a more in-depth analysis (with Raid completion next to relevant episodes): > > First number is those that finished the FIRST story instance (and FIRST Raid boss), the second number is those that finished the LAST instance (LAST Raid boss) > > > > Heart of Thorns was initiated by 92% but finished by 68.5%, > > Out of the Shadows 68.6% - 61% / Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5% - 12.8% > > Rising Flames: 63.5% - 58.3% > > A Crack in the Ice: 63.5% - 56% > > The Head of the Snake: 59.9% - 51.1% > > Flashpoint: 55.9% - 49.7% > > One Path Ends: 52.2% - 46.5% > > > > Path of Fire: > > Path of Fire: 71.9% - 55.2% > > Daybreak: 48.5% - 38.5% / Hall of Chains: 7.45% - 4.9% > > A Bug in the System: 36% - 29% > > > > You got me curious with that question, so I went and found out the percentages of those that finished the meta achievements of every episode: > > Out of the Shadows 26.4% > > Rising Flames: 21.5% > > A Crack in the Ice: 14.2% > > The Head of the Snake: 17.2% > > Flashpoint: 19.8% > > One Path Ends: 11.1% > > Daybreak: 8.6% > > A Bug in the System: 5.3% > > > > Interesting results. A Crack in the Ice meta was completed too few times compared to the others, that annoying Elixir probably played a role. > > Curiously enough, the Raid first boss kill rates are very close to the episode meta achievement completion rates. Out of the Shadows: 26.4%, Bastion of the Penitent: 20.5%, Daybreak: 8.6%, Hall of Chains: 7.45%. Meaning a great number of those that finished the meta achievements, also played the Raids. > > Maybe it is also a matter of how the meta events are? I will never make the full list of meta events of A crack in the Ice because I am unable to kill the beast quick enough on my own, and I will never complete Rising flames(?) because it involves a jumping puzzle. Still I have around 70% of these achievements and played on these maps quite often. Does that make them a success or not? You can of course argue the same way with raids when you leave out of the equation that you do not get any token from raids if you fail to complete them. > > Maybe the number of people who began to play PoF is lower because HoT was a disappointment for them? The drop is 20%, pretty steep if you ask me. Daybreak lost nearly 23%, Bug lost already half of the initial players, so PoF obviously follows the same way as HoT. Maybe mounts were not what the majority of people wanted? Maybe the monetarism of mount skins? I don´t know. > > My guess for the lower number of players who completed Daybreak and bug in the system is because the maps are harder and more filled with better mobs, or the story instances are too long? I am a rather patient person and still was watching the clock after some attempts. The maze structure of Bug in the System is surely not helpful too. There is also lots of people who play LW who aren’t on efficiency. My guild plays all the LW, and no one is on efficiency. That LW could be higher, with people who picked up the expansion, but again we can’t use any proper numbers because Anet has all the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > I dont doubt there a connection between achievement hunters and raiders. But with below 10% numbers, even though similar, theres nothing saying how much of each of those are actually the same players. > > Also age of the content is a huge factor. Even in "older" content like LW3 a downward trend is still apparent. I would speculate that this downward trend is much more pronounced the newer the content is. Ignoring the other factors ofcourse. It doesn't matter if they are the same players or not, only that the percentages are very similar. So the argument of "Raids being niche content" is half the truth, because all meaningful content in the game is niche content, including Fractals, LW meta achievements, collections, Griffon races and Adventures. Everything is niche on its own, but combined they give us this game. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > There is also lots of people who play LW who aren’t on efficiency. My guild plays all the LW, and no one is on efficiency. That LW could be higher, with people who picked up the expansion, but again we can’t use any proper numbers because Anet has all the data. There is also lots of people in game that do not finish the meta achievements of LW. Since it's often given as an argument of efficiency users being the more invested players, it's rather safe to assume, if the meta completion percentages are that low for efficiency users, the actual game percentages will be much much lower. Same with Raid percentages of course, their percentages will also be lower if we use the entire playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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