Vallun.2071 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Hi my name is Vallun, and if I were balancing Guild Wars 2 PvP, here is what I would do. Thief It’s great that sword builds are being used now after being considered terrible for years, but there are some things that need to be changed in order to make the power acrobatics build and the condi build more interactive. Also a few suggestions in here to make the dagger pistol archetype a little more effective to compete with sword. First of all, Infiltrator’s strike (Sw2) has too long of a range (900). The main counterplay to this skill is to stand near their return location to prevent them from creating distance between their bursts of damage. Reducing the range to 600 would make this skill much less abusive to the conquest game. Another problem is the acrobatics trait Swindler’s Equilibrium which gives sword acro thieves a double steal effect. This is too front loaded and promotes spammy gameplay rather than well- timed bursts. I suggest reverting this trait to its former version of reducing steals cooldown by 1 to 2 seconds per successful evade with a 2 to 3 second internal cooldown. This will feel much more fluid to play as and against and will greatly reward players for actively trying to play around steal and punish players who miss steal. Another issue is the condi s/d build, which completely bullies low condition cleansing builds out of the meta by simply front loading venom/steal/lotus/caltrops/sword2 immob with only a few key presses. The amount of burst available to this build should not be possible for any meta condition build. It creates a very binary situation where you either dodge the initial burst or you die, or you have your “oh shit” button cleanse or you die. While I don’t think that condi thief should be removed from playability, I do have some suggestions to improve its interactivity and counterplay. The Potent Poison trait should be reduced from 33% more damage on poison to 20% which will remove most of its one-shot potential. Serpent’s touch which gives poison on steal should be reduced from 10 seconds duration to 6, and spider venom’s poison duration per application should be reduced from 6 seconds to 4. This will also make the front-loaded damage from stealing with venom less overall. In return for these nerfs, more poison should be added to active traits and skills. Dagger Training (competes with mug in deadly arts) can have increased application frequency for dagger skills, so maybe 100% chance for off hand dagger skills and 50% application for main hand dagger skills (reminder that this would be in conjunction with the nerfing of potent poison trait). This would require being near fights longer to deal damage rather than going in with sword 2, dodging, and then immediately going back out. It also makes the dagger pistol or even dagger dagger (yikes) variant of condi thief more sustainable damage. One of the reasons why sword is more effective than dagger as a main hand is because of the way Panic Strike works with Lotus Poison. Every time a thief lands their sword 2 they also apply weakness with these 2 traits, but for a dagger main hand thief they need to land their whole auto attack chain to reach their poison and therefore weakness application. This makes them much more vulnerable on an already low evade uptime weapon set. My suggestion is to swap the order of Wild Strike and Lotus Strike on the dagger auto chain so that the poison attack happens right after Double Strike, and gives you more survivability sooner. Revenant Revenants have been out of the meta for a bit, but are slowing being power creeped to uncontrollable levels which if left unchecked can become the new problem. In higher tier matches, a good revenant can be unstoppable with a little support or a lack of counter pressure. The main counters to revenant are condi classes like scourge, condi mirage, and condi thief. However, with all of these classes either receiving nerfs or expecting nerfs, revenant will need to be toned down as a result. The one issue is that they do too much damage. Incensed Response and Nefarious Momentum allow revenants to easily reach 25 stacks of might within the few seconds that they enter a fight. Maintaining 25 stacks of might for an entire fight should not be possible. Reaching 25 stacks for a short duration and then getting off a good burst with it is fine, but no more than a short window. The duration of might given by these abilities should be lowered by half, and the internal cooldown of their application should be somewhere around 5 seconds. Also lower the base damage of the off-hand sword abilities. There is really no reason to use any other off hands because of how power creeped the sword off hand is, and it is much more damage and easier to land than the axe off hand which was to most revenant players a much more interesting weapon to use. In return for lowering the damage revenant does, it would be nice to give them some more condi cleanse, perhaps removing 2 conditions on legend swap from Cleansing Channel and reducing the cast time of staff 4 Renewing Wave. Mesmer Condi mirage is the best build in the game at the moment. The main issue is that the build has too much evade uptime for how much mobility, damage, and utility it has. Keeping the damage and utility and mobility is fine because those make the build fun to play, but lowering the evade uptime will make it much more interactive to play against. I suggest reducing the duration of the mirage dodge Mirage Cloak from 1 second to 3/4 th of a second like every other classes dodge animation. Also increase the cooldown of the Sword 2 Blurred Frenzy from 12 to 15. This would keep the dodge amount about the same for reactive players to dodge with, but lower the overall evade uptime to allow vulnerability frames or to punish poorly timed dodges. Also adding an internal cooldown to Blinding Dissipation (blind on shatter) of about 5 seconds will make spamming shatters less effective since blinds deal confusion with Ineptitude, and allow for less on-demand survivability. These changes may seem a bit light but the goal is not to ruin the spec, rather to keep it fun and interactive. Guardian The core radiance guardian build is known for being very one dimensional, kill instantly or die slowly. The one-shot potential of the hammer variant of this build is very high and results in very unfun gameplay where you die from nowhere t. I would reduce the damage from Glacial Heart significantly but make the icd 6 seconds, down from 10, to keep higher uptime on the chill, allowing you to stick to your targets and deal more damage over time. the burst potential. This doesn’t affect the greatsword variant of the build which has less burst, and barely nerfs the overall damage output of the popular hammer version since it already lacks sustain without support. Necromancer Scourge is within reasonable levels, but the blood magic trait line is a little too powerful in solo q where there is little coordination. Combined with scourge, Transfusion and Last Rites and Ritual of Life stack up for too much rez utility at the same time. It results in many situations where having enough cleave to prevent the rez is impossible and often pointless to even try. Also for blood reaper builds, the well trait gives protection to the downed body which can be just as effective as transfusion for rezzing. To nerf both I would lower the ticks of rez from ritual of life from 7% to 3%. Keep in mind you still have the 10% increased rez speed, last rites and the self heal from the blood well. Also putting an internal CD on transfusion of 12 seconds so it can’t port the body multiple times per Garish Pillar will make it easier to place ground targeted damage on the rez. Warrior Increase rampage cooldown by 40 seconds to make it less spammable. Elementalist Make tempest a viable support option alongside firebrand. Make sword weaver less annoying to fight and have more impact in more situations. Engineer Holosmith will be one of the best if not the best build in PvP if these changes go through, so something will need to be done to address the insane amount of damage, burst, and cc that holos can perform. While they are in a decent spot at the moment they may need to be looked at again if these changes are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajaxx.3157 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Who??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 While I most agree with what you've said on the first classes (even if I play revenant and i feel the frustration of having no support from your team) I'm kinda sad you didn't develop the ele part more that than Haha But maybe it's too hard to apprehend > @"Ajaxx.3157" said: > Who??????? I know right ? Ppl that feels more important that they really are ? Especially a thief PLayer (KAPPA) Long live the king Ajaxx ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > Scourge is within reasonable levels, but the blood magic trait line is a little too powerful in solo q where there is little coordination. Combined with scourge, Transfusion and Last Rites and Ritual of Life stack up for too much rez utility at the same time. It results in many situations where having enough cleave to prevent the rez is impossible and often pointless to even try. Also for blood reaper builds, the well trait gives protection to the downed body which can be just as effective as transfusion for rezzing. To nerf both I would lower the ticks of rez from ritual of life from 7% to 3%. Keep in mind you still have the 10% increased rez speed, last rites and the self heal from the blood well. Also putting an internal CD on transfusion of 12 seconds so it can’t port the body multiple times per Garish Pillar will make it easier to place ground targeted damage on the rez. I expected the criticism of Scourge, but I don't understand why you're going after Wells Reaper as well. Wells Reaper is inferior to Martyr Reaper in this meta as Martyr Reaper + Firebrand has a winning matchup against Scourge + Firebrand while Wells Reaper outright loses to Scourge in all cases. Also Blood Magic does not have the 10% rez speed trait anymore, that was removed a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 As a guardian main, I like your proposed change to glacial heart. The chill was part of what appealed to me about this trait since it seems like it would compliment hammer's low mobility a lot better in terms of getting kills. As is, the chill is almost inconsequential. It's the damage adding on to the burst that makes it a must-have for cheesy one shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > Elementalist > > Make tempest a viable support option alongside firebrand. Make sword weaver less annoying to fight and have more impact in more situations. > Id like more then just a viable templest my favorite play style is fa sc/f.d... I like to see a 10% increase in plasma beam, and electric discharge reverted back befor the march/april/may update that nerfed it a considerable amount i dont remeber the specific one, as well as tempest defense going back down to 25 seconds, it was our greatest defense against the very low cooldown of warrior shield bash cc, and thf steal, at least for me. It helped prevent a massive follow up attack that a warrior can do with axef1 or what thf can do with backstab. Now that tempest defense is what 60 secs it doesnt synergize with any emenys attacks and is now so un reliable that its worthless imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 @"Vallun.2071" I think if you address (nerf) the double steal then you don’t also need to adjust Potent Poison. Double steal is big chunk of that burst. Given the more incremental changes you suggest for mirage it seems fair to adjust the double steal and the range of the sword teleport (a big change) and then see where the build falls in the meta (hopefully not out of it as I like fighting thieves other than D/P lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > Hi my name is Vallun, and if I were balancing Guild Wars 2 PvP, here is what I would do. > > Mesmer > Condi mirage is the best build in the game at the moment. The main issue is that the build has too much evade uptime for how much mobility, damage, and utility it has. Keeping the damage and utility and mobility is fine because those make the build fun to play, but lowering the evade uptime will make it much more interactive to play against. > > I suggest reducing the duration of the mirage dodge Mirage Cloak from 1 second to 3/4 th of a second like every other classes dodge animation. Also increase the cooldown of the Sword 2 Blurred Frenzy from 12 to 15. This would keep the dodge amount about the same for reactive players to dodge with, but lower the overall evade uptime to allow vulnerability frames or to punish poorly timed dodges. > > Also adding an internal cooldown to Blinding Dissipation (blind on shatter) of about 5 seconds will make spamming shatters less effective since blinds deal confusion with Ineptitude, and allow for less on-demand survivability. These changes may seem a bit light but the goal is not to ruin the spec, rather to keep it fun and interactive. > Mirage Cloak was changed to 1 second because the 3/4 second was hot garbage and superspeed only functions in 3/8 directions. Blurred Frenzy has already had its base cooldown increased by 50% in sPvP, maybe just stop attacking into it? I agree about Blinding Dissipation, but you didn't address EM whatsoever which is by far the problem trait, you can't lock down and punish someone who can on demand break out of it about every 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > Thief > Blahblahblah Sounds good to me. This should be implemented then have a look back at it in the following balance patch. Also I think venomshare shouldn't be a thing at all except for Basi, since it's an elite. > Revenant > Maintaining 25 stacks of might for an entire fight should not be possible. Yes. I don't play my condi rev much, but even when playing Wanderer/Deadshot I do good power damage cuz I play Invo and Glint/Mallyx. It's dumb, I should be hitting for 450 damage max with no power investment but I get 1000 damage hits, sometimes more, because of all the might. > In return for lowering the damage revenant does, it would be nice to give them some more condi cleanse, perhaps removing 2 conditions on legend swap from Cleansing Channel and reducing the cast time of staff 4 Renewing Wave. Absolutely. > Mesmer I have my own nerfs that I won't repeat here, I am mostly butthurt about Mirage's defensive abilities as opposed to their damage. The confusion stacks are overkill but that's about it in my view, it's their sustain that's the biggest problem. > Guardian > The core radiance guardian build is known for being very one dimensional, kill instantly or die slowly. The one-shot potential of the hammer variant of this build is very high and results in very unfun gameplay where you die from nowhere. I would reduce the damage from Glacial Heart significantly but make the icd 6 seconds, down from 10, to keep higher uptime on the chill, allowing you to stick to your targets and deal more damage over time. the burst potential. This doesn’t affect the greatsword variant of the build which has less burst, and barely nerfs the overall damage output of the popular hammer version since it already lacks sustain without support. This is close to a good idea, but not quite. I play core hammer guard a lot; the problem with your idea is twofold: 1. Chill is just one condi and guard can't cover it, so it gets cleared almost immediately. I know you think a lower CD will increase chill uptime but in reality it won't mean a thing. 2. Hammer, aside from hammer 3, is a melee weapon. If the person is already even a slight distance from me, then I can't hit them, meaning I can't damage them or trigger Glacial Heart. Also if I trigger Glacial Heart with hammer 3, then my opponent is immobed and chilled at the same time... meaning that the snare from Chill is going to waste. ## Potential Solution If we could trigger the effects of Glacial Heart on **any** weapon, so long as one of our equipped weapons is a hammer, then I would support this. As it is, it's incredibly difficult to stick to a target with hammer, especially considering how everyone has a ton of single condi-clears and hammer auto doesn't inflict a snare. The only way hammer works is by deleting 60% of someone's health in one burst (when combined with Smite Condition), then finishing the remainder with your second weaponset. I understand what you're getting at but unless Hammer gains more ability to stick to targets (e.g. increasing the range of [hammer 2](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Blow "hammer 2") to 600) then your idea would hurt the build, not help it. > Necromancer > Blahblahblah. Just don't let us put boons on downed bodies and we're good to go. This isn't an issue of necro skills so much as how easy it is to protect/buff a downed body via traits and skills. > > Warrior > Increase rampage cooldown by 40 seconds to make it less spammable. Not a great idea. It will still be **just** as annoying. I think a more creative approach is required; I would support an ammo system, every skill aside from the autoattack can only be used once, something like that. > Elementalist > Make tempest a viable support option alongside firebrand. Make sword weaver less annoying to fight and have more impact in more situations. Nerf Firebrand and Tempest might come back to the meta. Though tbh I prefer Scrapper over Tempest in their current states. > Engineer > > Holosmith will be one of the best if not the best build in PvP if these changes go through, so something will need to be done to address the insane amount of damage, burst, and cc that holos can perform. While they are in a decent spot at the moment they may need to be looked at again if these changes are made. Agreed. [Holo 5](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave "Holo 5") should have a CD increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delweyn.1309 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Game should remove or reduce all automatic defensive effects that trigger at some % of life. It's not skilled at all. But keep the possibility to have them in addition of effect of some active skill, and maybe add an extra breakstun maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 My bad, double posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Lol it sounds to me you want your counters nerfed given that core guard made the list. If you've played against glacial heart much you'd know it doesn't hit very hard, is hard to control, and was previously gutted. Sure it counters thief but gonna have to do better than that to get it nerfed. Also in the scourge meta most rad hammers run improved virtues for the condi cleanse + group. The 1 shot potential is still there regardless. Misfire much. Spellbreaker is still a thing, right? Right?? Given the contents of the /warrior/ section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? Not sure why we need to tone down OH sword damage at all since they're pretty telegraphed moves and their sole purpose is burst damage. How about we fix sword 5 to actually hit most of the time then we can talk about nerfing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > Not sure why we need to tone down OH sword damage at all since they're pretty telegraphed moves and their sole purpose is burst damage. How about we fix sword 5 to actually hit most of the time then we can talk about nerfing it... Sword 5 needs a fix but sword 4 is definitely not telegraphed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson.2403 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Delweyn.1309" said: > Game should remove or reduce all automatic defensive effects that trigger at some % of life. It's not skilled at all. But keep the possibility to have them in addition of effect of some active skill, and maybe add an extra breakstun maybe. Agreed. "Oh I'm too slow to react, but no worries, let me just shrink or let me just endure pain and reset etc". Make these like the ranger utility slot where they have to actually react and hit a hotkey to become immune to physical damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Sampson.2403" said: > > @"Delweyn.1309" said: > > Game should remove or reduce all automatic defensive effects that trigger at some % of life. It's not skilled at all. But keep the possibility to have them in addition of effect of some active skill, and maybe add an extra breakstun maybe. > > Agreed. "Oh I'm too slow to react, but no worries, let me just shrink or let me just endure pain and reset etc". Make these like the ranger utility slot where they have to actually react and hit a hotkey to become immune to physical damage. Ironically there is a passive version of Signet of Stone too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizardauz.3761 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 So now that necro has been sufficiently nerfed in terms of dmg output you want to nerf its support capability. Necros dont have an increased rez speed trait ( "Ritual of Life" casts a lesser well of blood to apply healing) So please before you start commenting on how classes should be nerfed/buffed. Make sure you actually know what you're talking about. Btw if youre so concerned about how necros can apply protection with a well (an actual utility) on a downed body. What about elementalists, warriors, etc doing the exact same thing using more spammable abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. > > The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. Yeah I know what a zerk amulet is. The reason I pinged Bry is because he plays rev and is decent. I don't need you to tell me how to spec into a zerk build I was wondering if Plat rev mains actually play it, which is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > > > > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > > > > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. > > > > The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. > > Yeah I know what a zerk amulet is. The reason I pinged Bry is because he plays rev and is decent. I don't need you to tell me how to spec into a zerk build I was wondering if Plat rev mains actually play it, which is another question. I told you what 95% of platinum revs play, including my self. The point is that no, rev's don't play full glass, but they are very close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > > > > > > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > > > > > > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. > > > > > > The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. > > > > Yeah I know what a zerk amulet is. The reason I pinged Bry is because he plays rev and is decent. I don't need you to tell me how to spec into a zerk build I was wondering if Plat rev mains actually play it, which is another question. > > I told you what 95% of platinum revs play, including my self. This zerk build you're talking about is [not even on metabattle](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Revenant "not even on metabattle") so I'm calling shenanigans. Maybe in unranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebatman.6250 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. I do run marauder on rev but my rune/sigil are a little different than what most rev's run. It does give me more sustainability vs condi's so I don't get melted by the monkeys who play ez mode in pvp. Part of the rev's survivability is known when to dodge and not just dodge in general. Also utilizing Repositing Shadows more is mandatory for surviving at a revenant in 1v1's and team fights. If you're not learning how/when to dodge then it doesn't matter how strong you are. You will feed. To address Vallun's proposed changes on Revenant: The reason revenants can stack 25 might so easily is not specifically due to 2 traits. We have a lot of ways to generate might within our build and outside of it. You can stack 25 might alone easily with either incensed response OR Nefarious Momentum. You don't need both. The reason behind revenants strong spike potential is now only might access but Quickness access. To add on to that revenant also gets bonus boon duration passively from Herald GM Minor Trait. Stacked with Leadership runes well you're looking at 46% and as high as 80% with Natural Resonance buff from our F2 on herald. Boon Duration is grossly overlooked on revenant because we can easily increase it to extreme levels with almost 0 impact on our damage. In some scenarios quite the opposite happens. We become stronger with increased boon duration. If you nerf boon duration you'll see less upkeep of 25 might as well as less upkeep overall of Fury/Prot/Regen/Swiftness/Quickness. There is also the issue of certain runes/sigil combos that increase might duration and grant might. To the point where almost any class running a specific rune + sigil combo can get 20 stacks of might of course that would be suboptimal but its food for thought. If you want to balance out revenant here is something to consider: - Nerf Damage on offhand(5% would be enough, 10% would be too much. At that point you might as well use Axe) - Buff cleansing on staff (Remove 3 condi's instead of 2, decrease cast time to 1/2s instead of 3/4) - Nerf boon duration given on leadership runes(as well as other runes that give high boon duration) - Nerf concentration given by natural resonance to 250 instead of 500 - revert changes of Nefarious momentum(2 might for Assassin skill, 1 might for others) - Nerf might gain on Incensed Response from 5 might for fury to 3 might for fury - Remove fury boon from Deathstrike(I recommend changing it to put vulnerability on your target or give yourself might) - remove fury from Reposting shadows to instead give swiftness - Buff shield healing/provide some condi clear or conversion when used These are some suggestions I would make to Revenant to stop them from being over the top as condi's are brought more in line and classes that can easily stack things like torment/confusion/poison/burning are toned down. Edit: Just a quick note. Revenant could actually do without a buff to condi cleanse **_IF_** the dev's changed condi cleanse from being random cleanses to instead cleansing Intensity first. This honestly be enough to put revenants back into the meta game imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > > > > > > > > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. > > > > > > > > The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. > > > > > > Yeah I know what a zerk amulet is. The reason I pinged Bry is because he plays rev and is decent. I don't need you to tell me how to spec into a zerk build I was wondering if Plat rev mains actually play it, which is another question. > > > > I told you what 95% of platinum revs play, including my self. > > This zerk build you're talking about is [not even on metabattle](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Revenant "not even on metabattle") so I'm calling shenanigans. Maybe in unranked. You missed my point, they pretty much all play marauder, but even with that they are much closer to full glass than any of the other common builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebatman.6250 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right? > > > > > > > > > > > > @"thebatman.6250" Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive. > > > > > > > > > > The difference between standard power rev and absolute full glass power rev is 3 or 4 changes: marauder amulet instead of berserker, leadership rune instead of scholar, cleansing channel instead of forceful persistence, and assassin's annihilation is often used instead of swift termination or brutality. The next class that comes this close to running full glass is curses scourge and even that has about 6 trait swaps (some are mostly filler or trading damage for more corrupts) an amulet swap and typically 2 defensive utilities. Rev damage is only good because they invest more into it than the other classes. > > > > > > > > Yeah I know what a zerk amulet is. The reason I pinged Bry is because he plays rev and is decent. I don't need you to tell me how to spec into a zerk build I was wondering if Plat rev mains actually play it, which is another question. > > > > > > I told you what 95% of platinum revs play, including my self. > > > > This zerk build you're talking about is [not even on metabattle](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Revenant "not even on metabattle") so I'm calling shenanigans. Maybe in unranked. > > You missed my point, they pretty much all play marauder, but even with that they are much closer to full glass than any of the other common builds. Yeah because the class was designed to be one the highest damage classes when it was first introduced. We are heavy armored assassins. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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