Replace deathly chill with a trait that causes you to take double damage and deal 40% more damage

[Tobias.8632]

Call it "sharp but brittle" or something to keep with the middle traitline ice theme.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

would have to carry around umbrella so rain doesnt one shot

[Sephylon.4938]

Why do you want to make that trade in? What other class does that? Awaken the pain was horrible enough as it is, no other trait from any class reduced the bonuses players get from boons to beef up another. Necros should not be the exception to this, no class should.

[Amerikajinn.4635]

Yes, because destroying one playstyle (Condi Reaper) to make another one slightly better is **definitely** good balance. /s

 

 

[Tobias.8632]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> Why do you want to make that trade in? What other class does that? Awaken the pain was horrible enough as it is, no other trait from any class reduced the bonuses players get from boons to beef up another. Necros should not be the exception to this, no class should.

 

Except awaken the pain is one of the best things to ever be added to necro's traitlines? I want to make this trade because according to devs the thing that stops them from making necro do good dps is its survivability, so the thing the thing the class needs is the ability to opt in to a glass cannon mode where they have no survivability and deal actually competitive damage for raids

 

> @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> Yes, because destroying one playstyle (Condi Reaper) to make another one slightly better is **definitely** good balance. /s

 

Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

 

 

[Zero.3871]

> @"Tobias.8632" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > Why do you want to make that trade in? What other class does that? Awaken the pain was horrible enough as it is, no other trait from any class reduced the bonuses players get from boons to beef up another. Necros should not be the exception to this, no class should.

>

> Except awaken the pain is one of the best things to ever be added to necro's traitlines? I want to make this trade because according to devs the thing that stops them from making necro do good dps is its survivability, so the thing the thing the class needs is the ability to opt in to a glass cannon mode where they have no survivability and deal actually competitive damage for raids

>

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > Yes, because destroying one playstyle (Condi Reaper) to make another one slightly better is **definitely** good balance. /s

>

> Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

>

>

 

1.) necro survivability is worse, dont know why it should be the reason to not buff anything.

2.) your Suggestion is completely broken. your trait would cause the ultimate super Sayan one shot reaper build in wvw and pvp. atm necros dont even get some buffs in anything. so why anet should now create that OP trait you suggest?

3.) plz stop trading "Sustain" for dmg. that already killed reaper for every competitive gamemode cause reaper Sustain is nearly 0.

 

[Tobias.8632]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

 

> 1.) necro survivability is worse, dont know why it should be the reason to not buff anything.

> 2.) your Suggestion is completely broken. your trait would cause the ultimate super Sayan one shot reaper build in wvw and pvp. atm necros dont even get some buffs in anything. so why anet should now create that OP trait you suggest?

> 3.) plz stop trading "Sustain" for dmg. that already killed reaper for every competitive gamemode cause reaper Sustain is nearly 0.

>

 

1.) In what universe is necro survivability worse? When a group wipes on any raid boss, if there's a necro in the group it's usually the last one alive and the RL has to be like "/gg pls" to get them to stop. Classes like ele have to dodge every mechanic to not get insta downed and historically this has been the excuse for them doing significantly more damage then necromancers and I feel like the main thing myself and the rest of the community who want to raid on necro desire is for an option to play on the same level, other then just rerolling ele.

2.) so split the skill balance for pvp

3.) so split the skill balance for pvp

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Tobias.8632" said:

> Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

 

Incorrect, aside from the fact that both builds offer different ways to play and different tools for encounters they each excel at different things:

 

Condi Reaper provides more CC than Scourge, as well as having higher burst damage potential whilst maintaining the benefits of a condi necro build (epidemic, parasitic contagion, etc). Furthermore, Reaper brings extra ways to group up and negate enemy attacks (Grasping Darkness and Nightfall) without sacrificing utility skills, on top of suffering less from not having alacrity.

 

Scourge provides more defensive utility and cleaving damage, and is more compatible with epi-bouncing.

 

Irregardless, even if Condi Reaper performed worse in all areas that still doesn't mean it doesn't exist because something else is better. By that logic any build that isn't the best doesn't exist. Power Reaper, Daredevil, Firebrand, etc are speccs that offer their own ways to play the game, and whether or not they are better or worse than something else is irelevant.

 

There is also plenty of tools in the Reaper speccilization traits that already heavily benefit all builds for Reaper (most notably Decimate Defenses), so rather than destroying a trait that has been condi focused since its introduction focus on what actually holds power builds back, the weapon skills of Reaper and the core Necro traits.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Tobias.8632" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > Why do you want to make that trade in? What other class does that? Awaken the pain was horrible enough as it is, no other trait from any class reduced the bonuses players get from boons to beef up another. Necros should not be the exception to this, no class should.

>

> Except awaken the pain is one of the best things to ever be added to necro's traitlines? I want to make this trade because according to devs the thing that stops them from making necro do good dps is its survivability, so the thing the thing the class needs is the ability to opt in to a glass cannon mode where they have no survivability and deal actually competitive damage for raids

>

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > Yes, because destroying one playstyle (Condi Reaper) to make another one slightly better is **definitely** good balance. /s

>

> Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

>

>

 

Guess Devs never played wvw roaming with necro.

 

You meet a ranger or mesmer or thief or guard - pop - only 2k lifeforce left after the first 2 hits.

 

So much about survivability and about awaken the pain: i think warrior has a trait that gives him +10 power for each might? Not so sure though. But why should necro have a trade-off with less condition damage while warrior hasn't?

 

Don't get me wrong. Awaken the pain is awesome and i often cannot decide, if it want to take awaken the pain or chill of death in my PvP builds (most likely wvw solo roaming).

 

So if we make the suggested trade-off, you would also need to rework reapers onslaught. Cause the suggestion would make this trait completely useless.

 

No.

What necro needs is a complete overhaul.

That starts with making attackspeed stack with reapers onslaught (it doesn't right now, you just loose the 15% from the trait while having quickness)

Continues with making support necro more viable via more boon output and not just might for the group.

And ends with giving necro a reliant DPS spec. That isn't dependant on epi to be bounced (then change epi so it's just cleave and cannot be bounced anymore)

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > @"Tobias.8632" said:

> > Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

>

> Incorrect, aside from the fact that both builds offer different ways to play and different tools for encounters they each excel at different things:

>

> Condi Reaper provides more CC than Scourge, as well as having higher burst damage potential whilst maintaining the benefits of a condi necro build (epidemic, parasitic contagion, etc). Furthermore, Reaper brings extra ways to group up and negate enemy attacks (Grasping Darkness and Nightfall) without sacrificing utility skills, on top of suffering less from not having alacrity.

>

> Scourge provides more defensive utility and cleaving damage, and is more compatible with epi-bouncing.

>

> Irregardless, even if Condi Reaper performed worse in all areas that still doesn't mean it doesn't exist because something else is better. By that logic any build that isn't the best doesn't exist. Power Reaper, Daredevil, Firebrand, etc are speccs that offer their own ways to play the game, and whether or not they are better or worse than something else is irelevant.

>

> There is also plenty of tools in the Reaper speccilization traits that already heavily benefit all builds for Reaper (most notably Decimate Defenses), so rather than destroying a trait that has been condi focused since its introduction focus on what actually holds power builds back, the weapon skills of Reaper and the core Necro traits.

 

Exactly, condi reaper still have the same level of damage than condi scourge which, without epidemic, still stay sligthly below 30k dps.

 

Most likely, anet won't create a 2nd grandmaster power damage trait. _Reaper onslaught_ exist for this specific purpose: Power reaper builds. If there is something to change to make power reaper build "ok", then it's _reaper onslaught_ that need to be addressed, not _deathly chill_. There is no point in killing a spec build diversity just for some weird power fetish.

[Lahmia.2193]

Just change Reaper's Onslaught so that Might now grants Ferocity as well. Something like 20 per might stack, therefore granting +33% critical damage at max might. Make it a universal power trait instead of just a shroud one (can't take credit for the idea but I forgot who originally said it).

[KrHome.1920]

Condi Reaper would be even pretty good at WvW roaming and PvP if Deathly Chill worked like in PvE and applied 2 bleeds. The former 3 bleeds was cleary overpowered, but now the 1 bleed lacks any pressure. Shouts/GS/Viper Reaper could really be a thing with 2 bleeds.

 

For PvE it's still a solid spec and who thinks that ANet wants to destroy Condi Reaper and transform Reaper to pure power, did not understand their trait policy. There are always options for power and condi builds in the elite traitlines on every class.

 

Currently Power Scourge is more underpowered than Condi Reaper as the F1-F5 damage coefficients are way to low for its squishiness.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Tobias.8632" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

>

> > 1.) necro survivability is worse, dont know why it should be the reason to not buff anything.

> > 2.) your Suggestion is completely broken. your trait would cause the ultimate super Sayan one shot reaper build in wvw and pvp. atm necros dont even get some buffs in anything. so why anet should now create that OP trait you suggest?

> > 3.) plz stop trading "Sustain" for dmg. that already killed reaper for every competitive gamemode cause reaper Sustain is nearly 0.

> >

>

> 1.) In what universe is necro survivability worse? When a group wipes on any raid boss, if there's a necro in the group it's usually the last one alive and the RL has to be like "/gg pls" to get them to stop. Classes like ele have to dodge every mechanic to not get insta downed and historically this has been the excuse for them doing significantly more damage then necromancers and I feel like the main thing myself and the rest of the community who want to raid on necro desire is for an option to play on the same level, other then just rerolling ele.

 

In a world where pvp and wvw exists where your 2nd hp bar amounts to little more than an extra .5 sec you stay alive vs 3 sec block.

 

> 2.) so split the skill balance for pvp

Anet claims they don't split skills/traits mechanically between game modes

> 3.) so split the skill balance for pvp

Anet claims they don't split skills/traita mechanically between game modes

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> Just change Reaper's Onslaught so that Might now grants Ferocity as well. Something like 20 per might stack, therefore granting +33% critical damage at max might. Make it a universal power trait instead of just a shroud one (can't take credit for the idea but I forgot who originally said it).

 

I did, but I don't care for the credit. When I suggested it it was 10 ferocity per stack in PvP/WvW and 15 in PvE I think.

[Obtena.7952]

So this is where we are now? Making gimmicky traits to try one-shotting people with high risk? I guess there is little said for skills anymore. The suggestion is so ridiculous, little value commenting on it though I think the most value added here is to say that if Reaper is the 'burst' shroud ... then you better add a restriction to the suggestion like "when in reaper shroud". It makes no sense to have this kind of trait concept active at all times.

[pah.4931]

In WvW this would be stupid (it'd even be stupid in sPvP). Flesh worm CttB bombing would absolutely decimate people.

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> would have to carry around umbrella so rain doesnt one shot

 

Lol, last night playing the new LW episode I found a spot that had arrows which would rain down from who-knows-where. The arrows did not appear to track me, or anything. It was just a spot so I was curious and decided to stand in it for the next wave to see if they were real or just an effect. They one-shotted me. I laughed and respawned.

[DeceiverX.8361]

The only reason condi reaper doesn't work is because chill access on reaper itself is only good in bursts and mostly tied to whirling the ice field from ES which makes it a one-dimensional, being either OP (many bleeds per chill application to the point of excess) or useless (low bleeds per chill application where people can negate some of those bleeds as well).

 

More skills in Rshroud should apply very short-duration (.5s or less) chill, and Chilling Nova should simply see its duration cut to .5s with a .5s ICD. This bumps up reaper's sustained fight presence via cooldown denial and makes the 1-stack DC fine since Nova (if traited for condi investment) would double it to 2 and make the trait useful, while not making the SSpiral whirl combo overly-oppressive like it was with 3 stacks and give condi reaper more flexibility. It also buffs power reaper's relative mobility, by making it harder for their foes to run away.

 

With these changes, DChill can also take a reduced duration to mandate more consistent pressure rather than the "5->4 and watch them die if without a cleanse" implementation that existed prior.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> The only reason condi reaper doesn't work is because chill access on reaper itself is only good in bursts and mostly tied to whirling the ice field from ES which makes it a one-dimensional, being either OP (many bleeds per chill application to the point of excess) or useless (low bleeds per chill application where people can negate some of those bleeds as well).

>

> More skills in Rshroud should apply very short-duration (.5s or less) chill, and Chilling Nova should simply see its duration cut to .5s with a .5s ICD. This bumps up reaper's sustained fight presence via cooldown denial and makes the 1-stack DC fine since Nova (if traited for condi investment) would double it to 2 and make the trait useful, while not making the SSpiral whirl combo overly-oppressive like it was with 3 stacks and give condi reaper more flexibility. It also buffs power reaper's relative mobility, by making it harder for their foes to run away.

>

> With these changes, DChill can also take a reduced duration to mandate more consistent pressure rather than the "5->4 and watch them die if without a cleanse" implementation that existed prior.

 

I agree that working a bit Chilling nova would be a good thing. And thus for both condi and power build.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Tobias.8632" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > Why do you want to make that trade in? What other class does that? Awaken the pain was horrible enough as it is, no other trait from any class reduced the bonuses players get from boons to beef up another. Necros should not be the exception to this, no class should.

>

> Except awaken the pain is one of the best things to ever be added to necro's traitlines? I want to make this trade because according to devs the thing that stops them from making necro do good dps is its survivability, so the thing the thing the class needs is the ability to opt in to a glass cannon mode where they have no survivability and deal actually competitive damage for raids

>

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > Yes, because destroying one playstyle (Condi Reaper) to make another one slightly better is **definitely** good balance. /s

>

> Condi reaper has already been destroyed by the existence of scourge. Condi reaper does not exist because scourge does everything better.

>

>

 

Meanwhile warriors have the highest HP and armor, have 2 abilities and a shield block that grants them complete invulnerability, have some of the best heal skills in the game, and they are the top power DPS spec in the game with an also competitive condi DPS spec.

 

So please spare me this bullcrap about necromancer paying for survivability when warrior has even better survivability as does guardian and both do far more DPS in their power builds.

 

Necros have garbage power builds because anet refuses to split balance for pvp/pve and currently necro is hated in spvp and wvw so Anet won't buff the class.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> In WvW this would be stupid (it'd even be stupid in sPvP). Flesh worm CttB bombing would absolutely decimate people.

 

The best part is that necro isn't a fail class that needs this kind of buff in WvW or PVP. Not even sure what the whole point of the OP's suggestion is.

[Tobias.8632]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> Meanwhile warriors have the highest HP and armor, have 2 abilities and a shield block that grants them complete invulnerability, have some of the best heal skills in the game, and they are the top power DPS spec in the game with an also competitive condi DPS spec.

>

> So please spare me this bullcrap about necromancer paying for survivability when warrior has even better survivability as does guardian and both do far more DPS in their power builds.

>

> Necros have garbage power builds because anet refuses to split balance for pvp/pve and currently necro is hated in spvp and wvw so Anet won't buff the class.

 

Oh yeah, it's 100% bullshit, but for the past 5 years any time necro getting good damage has been brought up by the developers the response from the devs has been "well we can't let necros do good damage because they can actually take a punch from pve mobs and not fall down", completely ignoring that plenty of other devpet classes don't have survivability issues

 

And then a few patches ago anet is suddenly like "we're going to split pve/pvp balance" and left necro with still nothing but scourge nerfs

[Obtena.7952]

I have to ask ... based on buffs and traits that are currently in the game, what would make anyone think this was a serious suggestion to begin with? Is there anything in the game that even comes close to the kinds of effects the OP is suggesting?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I have to ask ... based on buffs and traits that are currently in the game, what would make anyone think this was a serious suggestion to begin with? Is there anything in the game that even comes close to the kinds of effects the OP is suggesting?

 

Nothing, it's just the "power reaper" crew in another crusade against _deathly chill_.

 

It's sad, they aren't satisfied with the Power trait (_reaper's onslaught_) but still want to destroy an unrelated trait for the sake of destroying condi builds that go against their beliefs. It's like the thread on _dread_ where they argue that it is a condi trait and thus shouldn't be in a "power" traitline.

 

They don't even realise that the idea would make things worse for the profession, they just want one thing: turn DC into a power trait because it seem to be an eyesore for them.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"pah.4931" said:

> > In WvW this would be stupid (it'd even be stupid in sPvP). Flesh worm CttB bombing would absolutely decimate people.

>

> The best part is that necro isn't a fail class that needs this kind of buff in WvW or PVP. Not even sure what the whole point of the OP's suggestion is.

 

Oh gosh. I comment on this:

 

I don't think you understand necro very well so let's say it this way:

 

Reaper is useless almost everywhere.

It's power DPS is way too low for being good in pve, and it doesn't even bring boonsupport or heals

 

In PvP it's okayish i guess.

We'll i played power reaper for rankings a bit. Didn't loose a single game. But i don't play spvp much because it's not fun to be restricted so hard by amulets.

 

For wvw. Reaper is completely useless.

In zergs your purpose is to cleave downs that you zerg rolled over

And in roaming you get beaten by every class and you can only win if

1. The opponent is playing a zerg build that's not meant to be good for 1v1s

2. You are a much better player than your opponent. For that you need to know what every class is capable of or when you have to dodge enemy's skills. And at the same time you have to be a master of baits, and juking.