Replace deathly chill with a trait that causes you to take double damage and deal 40% more damage

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Most likely, anet won't create a 2nd grandmaster power damage trait. _Reaper onslaught_ exist for this specific purpose: Power reaper builds. If there is something to change to make power reaper build "ok", then it's _reaper onslaught_ that need to be addressed, not _deathly chill_. There is no point in killing a spec build diversity just for some weird power fetish.

 

The only argument i would like to make here is i dont see why reaper needs a condition option when its a power spec but when you look at scourge which is a condi spec it has no power options built into it.

 

I can kind of understand why some people want this trait changed honestly I would love to have another power option trait to play around with on reaper to be quite honest it makes no sense that reaper hinges its condi build on this one trait but we dont see an power option like that in scourge. But if they dont change this trait maybe we can get a glassy power spec next kinda like holo smith..... I'm kinda torn apart on this one.

 

 

[pah.4931]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"pah.4931" said:

> > > In WvW this would be stupid (it'd even be stupid in sPvP). Flesh worm CttB bombing would absolutely decimate people.

> >

> > The best part is that necro isn't a fail class that needs this kind of buff in WvW or PVP. Not even sure what the whole point of the OP's suggestion is.

>

> Oh gosh. I comment on this:

>

> I don't think you understand necro very well so let's say it this way:

>

> Reaper is useless almost everywhere.

> It's power DPS is way too low for being good in pve, and it doesn't even bring boonsupport or heals

>

> In PvP it's okayish i guess.

> We'll i played power reaper for rankings a bit. Didn't loose a single game. But i don't play spvp much because it's not fun to be restricted so hard by amulets.

>

> For wvw. Reaper is completely useless.

> In zergs your purpose is to cleave downs that you zerg rolled over

> And in roaming you get beaten by every class and you can only win if

> 1. The opponent is playing a zerg build that's not meant to be good for 1v1s

> 2. You are a much better player than your opponent. For that you need to know what every class is capable of or when you have to dodge enemy's skills. And at the same time you have to be a master of baits, and juking.

>

>

 

I play reaper and have tons of fun. I guess that's not a "purpose" for all the tryhard gamers out there that literally ruin ever game, literally.

 

Hey, remember Tetris? We played it because it was fun. For some reason, that's not enough for games anymore... what happened?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > Most likely, anet won't create a 2nd grandmaster power damage trait. _Reaper onslaught_ exist for this specific purpose: Power reaper builds. If there is something to change to make power reaper build "ok", then it's _reaper onslaught_ that need to be addressed, not _deathly chill_. There is no point in killing a spec build diversity just for some weird power fetish.

>

> The only argument i would like to make here is i dont see why reaper needs a condition option when its a power spec but when you look at scourge which is a condi spec it has no power options built into it.

>

 

I don't see why reaper would need 2 power option either. Does scourge have 2 condi option? no. Even weaver don't have 2 grand master trait focused on power damage. If _reaper onslaugth_, the power damage trait, is lacking then that's the one that need to be revised not _deathly chill_ which open up on different kind of builds.

 

Usually the e-spec GM trait each promote different purpose and reaper don't need 2 trait that serve the same purpose.

 

> I can kind of understand why some people want this trait changed honestly I would love to have another power option trait to play around with on reaper to be quite honest it makes no sense that reaper hinges its condi build on this one trait but we dont see an power option like that in scourge. But if they dont change this trait maybe we can get a glassy power spec next kinda like holo smith..... I'm kinda torn apart on this one.

 

I believe it's been discussed long enough already but the necromancer lean heavily toward the use of conditions where other professions tend to rely on boons. If you don't see any reason for opening some condition build to the reaper, I see plenty of them. _Terror_ and _epidemic_ being 2 good reason already. Pigeonholing the spec into power damage will do absolutely no good to the necromancer because the core already cannot support reliably a power spec. And we all know that. There is no point to waste the spec for purity of purpose. Furthermore, power reaper already deal more than enough damage in PvP/WvW, pushing again in this direction will just lead to complaints about stupid imbalance.

 

So, again, please leave _Deathly Chill_ as it is and focus on _reaper onslaught_ if you feel there is an issue with power reaper. We all know that _reaper onslaught_ have been smithered to oblivion when they modified it and nerfed RS LF drain to the ground in the same breath. The problem is there.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

>

> I don't see why reaper would need 2 power option either. Does scourge have 2 condi option? no. Even weaver don't have 2 grand master trait focused on power damage. If _reaper onslaugth_, the power damage trait, is lacking then that's the one that need to be revised not _deathly chill_ which open up on different kind of builds.

 

I suppose you have a point but when you say it like that let me ask you this.

Are you saying then that scourge should have a viable power GM option built within its traits? Because Feed from Corruption is most certainly not good enough to do that role effectively.

 

>

> I believe it's been discussed long enough already but the necromancer lean heavily toward the use of conditions where other professions tend to rely on boons. If you don't see any reason for opening some condition build to the reaper, I see plenty of them. _Terror_ and _epidemic_ being 2 good reason already. Pigeonholing the spec into power damage will do absolutely no good to the necromancer because the core already cannot support reliably a power spec. And we all know that. There is no point to waste the spec for purity of purpose. Furthermore, power reaper already deal more than enough damage in PvP/WvW, pushing again in this direction will just lead to complaints about stupid imbalance.

 

I will point out though Terror is not all that hot on reaper but then again that whole middle line of curses is kinda meh on reaper for 1 reason or another... (cough shroud skill 2 being unreliable at times), epidemic is gonna be a good grab on any condi necro build to include as a good reason specifically for reaper is in this example is kind of invalid imo.

 

>

> So, again, please leave _Deathly Chill_ as it is and focus on _reaper onslaught_ if you feel there is an issue with power reaper. We all know that _reaper onslaught_ have been smithered to oblivion when they modified it and nerfed RS LF drain to the ground in the same breath. The problem is there.

 

I guess you have a point im not really gonna go on about it because i know it wont change even though the flavor of the deathly chill trait has long died for me. I have not loved that trait since reaper was in open testing back when it was good in pvp but trash in pve. I am a bit bais toward it for being changed so drastically.

 

I just dont know what they could do to reapers onslaught to be honest with you.

[Sephylon.4938]

>@"pah.4931" said:

> Hey, remember Tetris? We played it because it was fun. For some reason, that's not enough for games anymore... what happened?

 

We started playing with other people who didn't feel like carrying what feels like dead weight to them in a game where there can only be 1 winner while having limited time to play.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

While there **should** be more traits with tradeoffs and downsides, there's basically none that have any.

 

So unless there's a major rework giving most traits a tradeoff, there should not be a few scattered here and there, or people will just ignore them in favor of those with only benefits.

[Anchoku.8142]

I honestly would not mind trading Deathly Chili's hybrid build capability for a group buff trait, though. Something like Vampiric Presence that gave added ferocity or added boon duration would be very much in demand.

[pah.4931]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> >@"pah.4931" said:

> > Hey, remember Tetris? We played it because it was fun. For some reason, that's not enough for games anymore... what happened?

>

> We started playing with other people who didn't feel like carrying what feels like dead weight to them in a game where there can only be 1 winner while having limited time to play.

 

Get a team and compete for real in ATs and other tournaments. There's a reason no real world sport is conducted like random solo-q video games.... it's because it is and never will be competitive. It's hot garbage as far as competition goes. It's all smoke and mirrors. When you do well, it's because OMG I'M SO AWESOME, CARRY and when you lose it's OMG MY TEAM IS SO BAD.

 

Sorry, but if you're not playing GW2 PvP for fun and only fun, then you're doing it wrong.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> >

> > I don't see why reaper would need 2 power option either. Does scourge have 2 condi option? no. Even weaver don't have 2 grand master trait focused on power damage. If _reaper onslaugth_, the power damage trait, is lacking then that's the one that need to be revised not _deathly chill_ which open up on different kind of builds.

>

> I suppose you have a point but when you say it like that let me ask you this.

> Are you saying then that scourge should have a viable power GM option built within its traits? Because Feed from Corruption is most certainly not good enough to do that role effectively.

>

 

Nope, it's more than bidimensional. For scourge you got a GM design to spread the "support", a GM designed to increase the spec condition damage and a GM designed for self buffing.

While reaper is: sustain, condi damage and power damage.

GM traits open new directions, that's their job. That's why it's infuriating to see player asking again and again to reduce the possibilities on reaper. This crusade against DC has become ridiculous.

 

> >

> > I believe it's been discussed long enough already but the necromancer lean heavily toward the use of conditions where other professions tend to rely on boons. If you don't see any reason for opening some condition build to the reaper, I see plenty of them. _Terror_ and _epidemic_ being 2 good reason already. Pigeonholing the spec into power damage will do absolutely no good to the necromancer because the core already cannot support reliably a power spec. And we all know that. There is no point to waste the spec for purity of purpose. Furthermore, power reaper already deal more than enough damage in PvP/WvW, pushing again in this direction will just lead to complaints about stupid imbalance.

>

> I will point out though Terror is not all that hot on reaper but then again that whole middle line of curses is kinda meh on reaper for 1 reason or another... (cough shroud skill 2 being unreliable at times), epidemic is gonna be a good grab on any condi necro build to include as a good reason specifically for reaper is in this example is kind of invalid imo.

>

 

It's especially valid because it's one of the very few advantage that the necromancer can propose to a group. ATM scourge and reaper are more or less tied when it come to condi damage potential. The whole possibility of reaper having a condi build that can make use of epidemic, give him some synergy with scourge for epi bounce. If scourge mechanism was balanced, we could have seen a great condi duo viable for both PvP/WvW content and PvE content.

 

> >

> > So, again, please leave _Deathly Chill_ as it is and focus on _reaper onslaught_ if you feel there is an issue with power reaper. We all know that _reaper onslaught_ have been smithered to oblivion when they modified it and nerfed RS LF drain to the ground in the same breath. The problem is there.

>

> I guess you have a point im not really gonna go on about it because i know it wont change even though the flavor of the deathly chill trait has long died for me. I have not loved that trait since reaper was in open testing back when it was good in pvp but trash in pve. I am a bit bais toward it for being changed so drastically.

>

 

I'll be honest with you, I think it's better as he is now than before. I've had some great moment with it and I find it fine atm. I think, the best way to improve both condi builds and power build should be by tweeking a bit _chilling nova_. Reducing the chill duration applied while also reducing the cool down of this trait would most likely do wonder for everyone.

 

> I just dont know what they could do to reapers onslaught to be honest with you.

 

Like said before, the real issue of this trait is that it's tied to the shroud uptime. And RS is more a burst shroud than a damage sustain shroud. There is 2 way to improve the trait:

- the indirect way: removing the 2nd health bar thingy of the RS.

- The direct way: changing the trait so that it's not depedant of the shroud uptime. (A valid suggestion would be to make the trait grant ferocity per might stack instead of it's current effect, for example)

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > >

> > > I don't see why reaper would need 2 power option either. Does scourge have 2 condi option? no. Even weaver don't have 2 grand master trait focused on power damage. If _reaper onslaugth_, the power damage trait, is lacking then that's the one that need to be revised not _deathly chill_ which open up on different kind of builds.

> >

> > I suppose you have a point but when you say it like that let me ask you this.

> > Are you saying then that scourge should have a viable power GM option built within its traits? Because Feed from Corruption is most certainly not good enough to do that role effectively.

> >

>

> Nope, it's more than bidimensional. For scourge you got a GM design to spread the "support", a GM designed to increase the spec condition damage and a GM designed for self buffing.

 

Fair enough i will continue to wish for my true glassy spec in the future or in a rework of some kind

 

> While reaper is: sustain, condi damage and power damage.

> GM traits open new directions, that's their job. That's why it's infuriating to see player asking again and again to reduce the possibilities on reaper. This crusade against DC has become ridiculous.

 

:astonished: People see little / no hope with the RO Grandmaster and thats likely why.

 

> It's especially valid because it's one of the very few advantage that the necromancer can propose to a group. ATM scourge and reaper are more or less tied when it come to condi damage potential. The whole possibility of reaper having a condi build that can make use of epidemic, give him some synergy with scourge for epi bounce. If scourge mechanism was balanced, we could have seen a great condi duo viable for both PvP/WvW content and PvE content.

 

The epi bounce can happen between any 2 necros how ever which is why I said its not super valid epic will always be one of necros best big bomb changing skills on a condition build period regardless of the e spec. Using it as a bounce bomb will always be a great duo combo thats the only reason why I say its not super valid imo. Although perhaps you just mean from the idea that a group might not want 2 scourges and would take a reaper and a scourge instead etc.

>

 

>

> I'll be honest with you, I think it's better as he is now than before. I've had some great moment with it and I find it fine atm. I think, the best way to improve both condi builds and power build should be by tweeking a bit _chilling nova_. Reducing the chill duration applied while also reducing the cool down of this trait would most likely do wonder for everyone.

 

I wont argue that its better for pve. But the concept and the flavor that made it most enjoyable for me is gone with the change but thats just my personal nit picking i was going to be all over the condi hype just because i liked the flavor and idea and how the trait worked in solo play during testing.

 

>

> > I just dont know what they could do to reapers onslaught to be honest with you.

>

> Like said before, the real issue of this trait is that it's tied to the shroud uptime. And RS is more a burst shroud than a damage sustain shroud. There is 2 way to improve the trait:

> - the indirect way: removing the 2nd health bar thingy of the RS.

> - The direct way: changing the trait so that it's not depedant of the shroud uptime. (A valid suggestion would be to make the trait grant ferocity per might stack instead of it's current effect, for example)

 

AYE!!! Yes, your idea for the direct way wouldn't be too shabby 100% thumbs up for that idea actually. :+1: :astonished:

 

Although I think the indirect way would allow them to open up reaper all the way around allowing it to perform something like holosmith in nature which would also be nice. Reaper could be seen as something truly deadly to let hit you a couple of times. But then all of that requires a much bigger scale of work on alot of other areas of reapers kit shouts included.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"pah.4931" said:

> > > In WvW this would be stupid (it'd even be stupid in sPvP). Flesh worm CttB bombing would absolutely decimate people.

> >

> > The best part is that necro isn't a fail class that needs this kind of buff in WvW or PVP. Not even sure what the whole point of the OP's suggestion is.

>

> Oh gosh. I comment on this:

>

> I don't think you understand necro very well so let's say it this way:

>

> Reaper is useless almost everywhere.

> It's power DPS is way too low for being good in pve, and it doesn't even bring boonsupport or heals

>

> In PvP it's okayish i guess.

> We'll i played power reaper for rankings a bit. Didn't loose a single game. But i don't play spvp much because it's not fun to be restricted so hard by amulets.

>

> For wvw. Reaper is completely useless.

> In zergs your purpose is to cleave downs that you zerg rolled over

> And in roaming you get beaten by every class and you can only win if

> 1. The opponent is playing a zerg build that's not meant to be good for 1v1s

> 2. You are a much better player than your opponent. For that you need to know what every class is capable of or when you have to dodge enemy's skills. And at the same time you have to be a master of baits, and juking.

>

>

 

Really? I don't understand necro because I recognize that the proposal is so ridiculous that it has no chance in hell of being implemented? You think adding completely unreasonable traits is justified because Reaper is 'useless everywhere'? Yes, obviously I am the one that is clueless here. :frown:

 

The fact is that this is simply another example of people completely ignoring game history and making thoughtless suggestions. NO one is getting a flat 40% DPS boost in this game, no matter how bad they think an espec is or what they are willing to give up to get it. It's too bad you put yourself firmly into the camp of supporting completely unrealistic suggestions. The numbers the OP is suggesting are completely absurd.

[vicious.5683]

Yep. It would be an interesting change to see Reaper turned into a glass cannon.

We need a spec for raids and I'm confused when people playing this game for years still doesn't understand why you suggest such changes.

 

[derd.6413]

personally i would like anet to have another look into CCs (soft CCs specifically)in pve perhaps then reaper could be viable as a chill-thing (whatever they decide to do with it). also perhaps if death magic got remade he could be a viable tank/bunker.

[Methuselah.4376]

No. If you want to make power necro viable in raids then it needs to bring its own niche effect. Condi has epidemic. I suggested several times on this forum that they change the awful Dread trait into a debuff that makes enemies within 600 range take 20% more damage from incoming attacks. This would mean that power reaper will finally hit the 30k benchmark while also being a very important member of the raid as it will significantly boost the squad's damage.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> Just change Reaper's Onslaught so that Might now grants Ferocity as well. Something like 20 per might stack, therefore granting +33% critical damage at max might. Make it a universal power trait instead of just a shroud one (can't take credit for the idea but I forgot who originally said it).

 

I like this Lahmia. Or some tasty reverts - sos..now that ones a given. Doesn't take much to tweak us.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> AYE!!! Yes, your idea for the direct way wouldn't be too shabby 100% thumbs up for that idea actually. :+1: :astonished:

>

 

Well, that is one solution, nothing more nothing less. The issue with this one is more on anet's end, because history proved us that they cling to their ideas. In this case, they cling to the shroud skill cool down reduction tied to RO.

 

> Although I think the indirect way would allow them to open up reaper all the way around allowing it to perform something like holosmith in nature which would also be nice. Reaper could be seen as something truly deadly to let hit you a couple of times. But then all of that requires a much bigger scale of work on alot of other areas of reapers kit shouts included.

 

Honnestly, I don't think so. Sure a total rework would be welcome but I think that reaper could very well part with the 2nd life bar quite easily. It just need 3 basic changes:

- changing RS from a transformation skill to a "weapon switch" (Which mean no 2nd life bar but permanent access to utilities). Thought, I think keeping the LF degen is okay, still limiting a bit the "shroud uptime"

- Giving the same amount of barrier when entering RS than scourge give when entering sand shroud.

- Change the shout trait to grant barrier when you use shout instead of leeching life.

 

Except for WvW zergs, this would give the reaper a survivability which is relatively close to the current survivability. And there isn't even a need to touch the core (not that I would be sad if they decided to do a substancial rework of the necromancer as a whole in order to make it "viable" without the 2nd life bar thingy).

 

That done, adjusting the reaper's dps (both power and condi) become just a matter of _chilling nova_ tweek and _gravedigger_ rework. Yeah, whatever happen, _gravedigger_ need to go. It's not a skill which promote an healthy gameplay, if the reaper need some burst, he can rely on RS4 and RS5 not some necrocopter skill.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"dceptaconroy.7928" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > Just change Reaper's Onslaught so that Might now grants Ferocity as well. Something like 20 per might stack, therefore granting +33% critical damage at max might. Make it a universal power trait instead of just a shroud one (can't take credit for the idea but I forgot who originally said it).

>

> I like this Lahmia. Or some tasty reverts - sos..now that ones a given. Doesn't take much to tweak us.

 

With SoS, why don't they just add it onto Reaper instead? I mean it was the only spec that really used the nice recharge from sos. Relentless Pursuit might make a good home for it.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

^ yep, that'd work.

[Anchoku.8142]

The core issue is that it is not efficient enough to build for condition damage as a Reaper. Except for DC, Reaper is a power spec with synergies in power, precision, ferocity, and condition duration.

 

Deathly Chill is a bandage that will change Reaper's role quite a bit but is condi-Reaper the most important or desirable result now that Scourge is available?

 

Personally, I do not think so. It was an amazing compromise without Scourge but now that slot could become something more defining for Reaper. That slot could be Reaper's group support beyond/without Blood Magic.

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> The core issue is that it is not efficient enough to build for condition damage as a Reaper. Except for DC, Reaper is a power spec with synergies in power, precision, ferocity, and condition duration.

>

> Deathly Chill is a bandage that will change Reaper's role quite a bit but is condi-Reaper the most important or desirable result now that Scourge is available?

>

> Personally, I do not think so. It was an amazing compromise without Scourge but now that slot could become something more defining for Reaper. That slot could be Reaper's group support beyond/without Blood Magic.

 

There is no such thing as a power spec, no Elite Specialization is made to just deal a certain kinda of damage. While it is true that some might allign better with certain damage types that doesn't mean it was made for them. In the case of Reaper the synergies with precision, crit chance, chill application and vulnerability application synergize well with any given dps build, both power and condi.

 

Deathly Chill is not a bandage, it is a build definig trait: much like Illusionary Inspiration for Chronomancer and Grace of the Land for Druid. A trait that one generates a build and playstyle around. Furthermore saying that just because another build option exists that does the job "better" means that one should give up on a build like Condi Reaper is ludicrous. By that logic all condi builds should be removed barring Scourge and Mirage, all power builds except for Weaver, etc.

 

Frankly, Reaper is amazing in that the potential for both it's chill focused condi build and power build are remarkably similar, and destroying that harmony of versatility just to make one of the two a little better is misguided game balance. The fact that Greatsword is used by both builds is anothet great example of this, the same skills in the hands of a player with different mindsets can have significant benefits to both builds.

 

People need to look past Reaper having to be the best at one thing and focus on all the things it can do being great. Condi Reaper is in a good spot, lift up Power Reaper a bit and it's golden.

 

Finally, if you want to pkay supportively I'd suggest playing Scourge instead of trying to give the movie monster style juggernaut a supportive identity. It doesn't need one.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

 

> Honnestly, I don't think so. Sure a total rework would be welcome but I think that reaper could very well part with the 2nd life bar quite easily. It just need 3 basic changes:

> - changing RS from a transformation skill to a "weapon switch" (Which mean no 2nd life bar but permanent access to utilities). Thought, I think keeping the LF degen is okay, still limiting a bit the "shroud uptime"

> - Giving the same amount of barrier when entering RS than scourge give when entering sand shroud.

> - Change the shout trait to grant barrier when you use shout instead of leeching life.

>

 

These are good changes imo although the I think degen would need to be rather low on lf like per haps even as little as 1-2% a second. I feel like if you are not going to have a second hp bar we should be looking at something closer to holosmith holo mode in sense as far as shroud skill design.

- Lower cd's on those shroud skills,

- bigger impact from skill 4 and 5.

- Possibly look at putting a lf cost to shroud skills 2-5.

 

Barrier on shouts its questionable i feel like that might copy scourge a bit much but it wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

There was alot of rambling going around when holo was released about how its how reaper should have been.

 

>

> That done, adjusting the reaper's dps (both power and condi) become just a matter of _chilling nova_ tweek and _gravedigger_ rework. Yeah, whatever happen, _gravedigger_ need to go. It's not a skill which promote an healthy gameplay, if the reaper need some burst, he can rely on RS4 and RS5 not some necrocopter skill.

 

I could agree here that too much damage and weight alone is placed on grave digger and while i do use it as a power necro without some one spamming quickness on you it feels very unpleasing to use even with the instant recharge not to mention the rotation under 50% separates you from using shroud wihch is the whole reason i got into playing necro in the first place.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

>

> > Honnestly, I don't think so. Sure a total rework would be welcome but I think that reaper could very well part with the 2nd life bar quite easily. It just need 3 basic changes:

> > - changing RS from a transformation skill to a "weapon switch" (Which mean no 2nd life bar but permanent access to utilities). Thought, I think keeping the LF degen is okay, still limiting a bit the "shroud uptime"

> > - Giving the same amount of barrier when entering RS than scourge give when entering sand shroud.

> > - Change the shout trait to grant barrier when you use shout instead of leeching life.

> >

>

> These are good changes imo although the I think degen would need to be rather low on lf like per haps even as little as 1-2% a second. I feel like if you are not going to have a second hp bar we should be looking at something closer to holosmith holo mode in sense as far as shroud skill design.

> - Lower cd's on those shroud skills,

> - bigger impact from skill 4 and 5.

> - Possibly look at putting a lf cost to shroud skills 2-5.

>

 

Well, you know, it's either close to holosmith or close to revenant's toggle skills. I personnally feel like the shroud need more to be like the later because of the passive "buff" we can gain throught the core traits. But that's a matter of opinion and point of view here. Also, for the same reason, I'd keep the current decay rate, It would encourage players not to stay in shroud, but use it timely.

 

> Barrier on shouts its questionable i feel like that might copy scourge a bit much but it wouldn't be a bad idea.

>

 

I agree that it's questionable but, the necromancer would feel quite nake defense-wise without this possibility. Also, contrary to the scourge, those barriers would be purely selfish and for the sake of originality, they can still keep it dependant on how many foe you hit with the shouts.

 

> There was alot of rambling going around when holo was released about how its how reaper should have been.

>

 

I can understand those ramblings ;) and I agree with them. It also feel quite awkward to see people labelling reaper as a noob spec while fawning at the same time at a high PvP rank holo player.

 

> >

> > That done, adjusting the reaper's dps (both power and condi) become just a matter of _chilling nova_ tweek and _gravedigger_ rework. Yeah, whatever happen, _gravedigger_ need to go. It's not a skill which promote an healthy gameplay, if the reaper need some burst, he can rely on RS4 and RS5 not some necrocopter skill.

>

> I could agree here that too much damage and weight alone is placed on grave digger and while i do use it as a power necro without some one spamming quickness on you it feels very unpleasing to use even with the instant recharge not to mention the rotation under 50% separates you from using shroud wihch is the whole reason i got into playing necro in the first place.

>

>

 

Well, I'm affraid, reaper was before all, anet answer to the necromancer's inability to fit in a game where condition damage wasn't good and with a PvE gamemode dominated by the "zerk meta". The more one look at it, the more reaper is a spec that seem to have been designed for something that anet removed at the same time anet introduced it.

 

Even so, _gravedigger_ always felt as a design flaw, I have to admit that this skill still puzzle me after all those years. Why do anet introduced such a thing in the game and why, by all mean, did they put so much emphasys on it to the point of tying the greatsword trait to the skill? I'll never have the answer but it sure will trouble me as long as this skill will exist. A high damaging super slow skill that you can spam on foes that have under 50% of their HP. The pinacle of skill less and boring gameplay in PvE and little to no purpose in PvP/WvW. WTH did anet's dev had in their mind when they designed it?

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Even so, _gravedigger_ always felt as a design flaw, I have to admit that this skill still puzzle me after all those years. Why do anet introduced such a thing in the game and why, by all mean, did they put so much emphasys on it to the point of tying the greatsword trait to the skill? I'll never have the answer but it sure will trouble me as long as this skill will exist. A high damaging super slow skill that you can spam on foes that have under 50% of their HP. The pinacle of skill less and boring gameplay in PvE and little to no purpose in PvP/WvW. WTH did anet's dev had in their mind when they designed it?

 

Remember, before Reaper, Necro had awful cleave options and power dps was all MH dagger / wells. Axe was horrible dps and had no cleave while staff had AoE and piercing but very low damage. I still believe Reaper was designed to keep Necro from being kicked from dungeon PUGs. Necromancer's most powerful cleaves were Epidemic and wells. The profession is very, very different with Reaper, Scourge, and the changes to utilities and elites adding so much area denial capability.

 

The look and feel to pre-HoT Necro may be similar but multi-target dps is vastly improved for power, hybrid, and condition damage builds. Reaper added an absolutely huge amount of AoE compared to what Necro had, before. Scourge is also very potent in its area denial design and adds group support. Greatsword by itself plugged a huge hole in Necro's capability so it does not surprise me that its cleave-heavy design was taken to such an extreme with Gravedigger.

 

Gravedigger's spin-to-win design may be dizzyingly boring and tedious but it is also potent due to its limitations. It works well in PvE and I think that was the primary requirement. Arguments over greatsword's place in PvP started in HoT's beta.

 

Players want to use parts of Reaper that were not the highest design priority during development. Maybe giving a hybrid power/condi dps option was a high priority for HoT or maybe it was a "nice to have" that survived the Reaper feature review. If Gravedigger was more engaging to use, would its damage be nerfed?

[Tobias.8632]

I feel the point needs to be made that reaper's onslaught is not a _power_ trait, it is a _shroud_ trait. Evidently the people in charge of designing this class envisioned some kind of spite / soul reaping / reaper build where you would aim to spend as much time as possible in shroud, but they forgot to make it do more dps overall then just camping greatsword dropping wells and spamming 2 off cooldown. The fact remains that on a power build, even if the middle grandmaster was a blank trait, you would still take it over reaper's onslaught. As it is, deathly chill is nearly worthless to power builds, but you still take it over reaper's onslaught because deathly chill is actually a tiny bit of free damage whereas reaper's onslaught offers absolutely nothing.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

If a-net wanted power reaper dps to be up there with top dogs, they'd have no trouble doing so with existing traits.

Also i'm **not** a fan of "spec = specific damage type" philosophy.

 

Specs should be about playstyle, not mandatory/useless gear stats. I played condi reaper before uber nerfs and it was viable and fun. Because reaper itself is fun. And i prefer it to stay that way. You wanna do condi or power on reaper? Both should be viable. You want to scourge it? Also both paths should be viable.

 

Way more fun that way, and no one would feel middle fingered by a-net because he has one xpac and not other and now he's stuck with only one damage type playstyle..