NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. Which subverts doing raids altogether. They should either be sold **to** a vendor, be exchangeable **to** a vendor for something, or no change at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"Mister Asdasd.6194" said: >They wanted to make raids feel epic and worthwile by adding the "ultimate reward" , transforming armor sets. Wrong, they knew raids would be DOA without something to bait people who didn't want to raid into doing it, so they shoved legendary armor in there instead of making it craftable like weapons (the way every other tier of gear works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @"Mister Asdasd.6194" said: > >They wanted to make raids feel epic and worthwile by adding the "ultimate reward" , transforming armor sets. > Wrong, they knew raids would be DOA without something to bait people who didn't want to raid into doing it, so they shoved legendary armor in there instead of making it craftable like weapons (the way every other tier of gear works). > Or they were creating legendary armor, wanted it to be acquired differently, and decided that since they were already doing raids, having it there was fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. The reason for doing raids should be "because they're a rewarding content _that is fun to play_ for you". LI trading would not subvert that in the slightest. Not that it would help any - the real stopper is not LI, but the collections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. They should either be sold **to** a vendor, be exchangeable **to** a vendor for something, or no change at all. I disagree that it subverts raids altogether. If you want to read my reasoning you can do it here. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43669/making-legendary-insights-tradeable/p1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. > The reason for doing raids should be "because they're a rewarding content _that is fun to play_ for you". LI trading would not subvert that in the slightest. > Not that it would help any - the real stopper is not LI, but the collections. > Content has specific rewards. Being able to get those rewards bypasses having to do that content. Imagine if every since item in the game was able to be purchased in the gem store. Why do any content at that point when you can just farm gold to exchange for gems or get out a credit card? People already complain that the PoF metas are not rewarding enough to do so if you take away LI from raids... The collections can be completed in a single play through with a few exceptions. Having to play raids for LI keeps an active pool of players to group up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. They should either be sold **to** a vendor, be exchangeable **to** a vendor for something, or no change at all. > > I disagree that it subverts raids altogether. If you want to read my reasoning you can do it here. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43669/making-legendary-insights-tradeable/p1 It does as I can simply skip raids altogether after I complete the collections. It’s pretty much like being able to buy map currency, or any other currency for that matter, from players. Why play the content when you can just farm Istan and buy the currency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. They should either be sold **to** a vendor, be exchangeable **to** a vendor for something, or no change at all. > > > > I disagree that it subverts raids altogether. If you want to read my reasoning you can do it here. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43669/making-legendary-insights-tradeable/p1 > > It does as I can simply skip raids altogether after I complete the collections. It’s pretty much like being able to buy map currency, or any other currency for that matter, from players. Why play the content when you can just farm Istan and buy the currency? You literally can buy LI if you farm Istan long enough now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. > > The reason for doing raids should be "because they're a rewarding content _that is fun to play_ for you". LI trading would not subvert that in the slightest. > > Not that it would help any - the real stopper is not LI, but the collections. > > > > Content has specific rewards. Being able to get those rewards bypasses having to do that content. Imagine if every since item in the game was able to be purchased in the gem store. Why do any content at that point when you can just farm gold to exchange for gems or get out a credit card? People already complain that the PoF metas are not rewarding enough to do so if you take away LI from raids... > > The collections can be completed in a single play through with a few exceptions. Having to play raids for LI keeps an active pool of players to group up with. People that are interested in raids keep playing long after they received enough LI for their legendary sets. Those that play only because they want LIs? They were never interested in this content in the first place. Keeping them engaged in this specific content this way may be good for raids, but isn't necessarily good for the game as a whole. Basically, you want to give people good enough reasons to keep playing the content they like. Making them play the content they _don't_ like should be avoided whenever possible.It only leads to faster burnout and lowered enjoyment values in those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. They should either be sold **to** a vendor, be exchangeable **to** a vendor for something, or no change at all. > > > > > > I disagree that it subverts raids altogether. If you want to read my reasoning you can do it here. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43669/making-legendary-insights-tradeable/p1 > > > > It does as I can simply skip raids altogether after I complete the collections. It’s pretty much like being able to buy map currency, or any other currency for that matter, from players. Why play the content when you can just farm Istan and buy the currency? > > You literally can buy LI if you farm Istan long enough now. Yes but if they were tradeable, the price per LI would drop considerably. Those that want to buy LI can simply pay to be carried in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > Voted no because raid vendor solution would only satisfy demand. Better solution imo would be making LI tradeable so people with excess LI are able to sell them and those who need it are able to buy. > > > > > > > > Which subverts doing raids altogether. > > > The reason for doing raids should be "because they're a rewarding content _that is fun to play_ for you". LI trading would not subvert that in the slightest. > > > Not that it would help any - the real stopper is not LI, but the collections. > > > > > > > Content has specific rewards. Being able to get those rewards bypasses having to do that content. Imagine if every since item in the game was able to be purchased in the gem store. Why do any content at that point when you can just farm gold to exchange for gems or get out a credit card? People already complain that the PoF metas are not rewarding enough to do so if you take away LI from raids... > > > > The collections can be completed in a single play through with a few exceptions. Having to play raids for LI keeps an active pool of players to group up with. > People that are interested in raids keep playing long after they received enough LI for their legendary sets. Those that play only because they want LIs? They were never interested in this content in the first place. Keeping them engaged in this specific content this way may be good for raids, but isn't necessarily good for the game as a whole. > > Basically, you want to give people good enough reasons to keep playing the content they like. Making them play the content they _don't_ like should be avoided whenever possible.It only leads to faster burnout and lowered enjoyment values in those players. > Having those players continue to play raids keeps an active pool of players to team up with. Not everyone plays content solely because they enjoy it; many want to be rewarded too. It’s better for the content to have more players doing it and that’s what having LI’s being obtained only in raids does. There’s more to the game than raids and legendary armor so I don’t see where you’re going with this not being good for the game as a whole. How’s it any different than map currencies? Are those not good for the game too? How so? There’s no single piece of content that will be universally liked in any MMO. Many players dislike map completion but they must do it for legendaries. Many hate WvW but they must do it for legendaries and specific skins. Players always have a choice in what they can play in this game. If they want a specific reward then they’ll have to do what it takes to earn/obtain it. The majority of these rewards have very little impact on one’s game other than for aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > People that are interested in raids keep playing long after they received enough LI for their legendary sets. Those that play only because they want LIs? They were never interested in this content in the first place. Keeping them engaged in this specific content this way may be good for raids, but isn't necessarily good for the game as a whole. > > > > Basically, you want to give people good enough reasons to keep playing the content they like. Making them play the content they _don't_ like should be avoided whenever possible.It only leads to faster burnout and lowered enjoyment values in those players. > > > > Having those players continue to play raids keeps an active pool of players to team up with. Yes, that's why i said it may be good for raids. Those players are being exploited here as a resource to help raid players have more fun, though. And it's not good for _them_. > Not everyone plays content solely because they enjoy it; many want to be rewarded too. Yes, that is covered by "give people good reasons to keep playing the content they like". The content, obviously, _has_ to be rewarding. The rewards should be good enough so people liking said content won't have to choose between having fun and being rewarded. That goes the other way as well, though - the people not interested in said content _also_ should not be put under the same choice. > It’s better for the content to have more players doing it and that’s what having LI’s being obtained only in raids does. Yes. Better for raids. Not necessarily better for the _game_ though. > > There’s more to the game than raids and legendary armor so I don’t see where you’re going with this not being good for the game as a whole. How’s it any different than map currencies? Are those not good for the game too? How so? The moment the map rewards become too good, they do start hurting the game, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 The most fun in games comes from being able overcoming obstacles. Not from what obstacles you find fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Not everyone plays that way. And i'm certain there are types of obstacles that wouldn't do even for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 You cannot take the earned video game pride away from people. Many people feel like it would invalidate their precious items if they were more common, just like in real life. With the difference that this is an online game with virtual goods that can be created in huge amounts and noone would lose anything. OPs solution would probably even stimulate the market as far more people would go for a legendary armor and all these resources spend would increase the prices, but it will never happen because the outcry on the forums and reddit would be immense. LIs are pretty much worthless anyway outside of legy armor crafting and getting ascended precursor armor. And this way it would probably be more likely for new people to join this dying game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > You cannot take the earned video game pride away from people. Many people feel like it would invalidate their precious items if they were more common, just like in real life. With the difference that this is an online game with virtual goods that can be created in huge amounts and noone would lose anything. > > OPs solution would probably even stimulate the market as far more people would go for a legendary armor and all these resources spend would increase the prices, but it will never happen because the outcry on the forums and reddit would be immense. > > LIs are pretty much worthless anyway outside of legy armor crafting and getting ascended precursor armor. > > And this way it would probably be more likely for new people to join this dying game mode. If they can just buy them why would they join the game mode at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > You cannot take the earned video game pride away from people. Many people feel like it would invalidate their precious items if they were more common, just like in real life. With the difference that this is an online game with virtual goods that can be created in huge amounts and noone would lose anything. I love the video game pride argument which gets brought over and over. What about health of the game mode? What about rewards versus real life money? (see Season 1 legendarys versus Season 2) What about actually having cooperative content which requires some semblance or cooperation in a MMO? The only remaining unique aspect to raid legendary armor is the skin versus wvw and spvp. Those 2 armors are even only time gated with 0 skill requirement. Making Legendary Insights trade-able does nearly nothing except remove some long term goal skins, give people even less reason to interact with others (be it in spvp, wvw or pve raids) and basically a "maxout your character as fast as your wallet allows". > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > OPs solution would probably even stimulate the market as far more people would go for a legendary armor and all these resources spend would increase the prices, but it will never happen because the outcry on the forums and reddit would be immense. Short term stimulation versus long term health. Never a good approach if you want to keep your game and possible activities in it relevant for a longer period of time. > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > LIs are pretty much worthless anyway outside of legy armor crafting and getting ascended precursor armor. Just as Hero Points are worthless outside of getting your skills, Mastery Points are worthless outside of getting your masteries maxed, ascended crafting tokens are worthless outside of making crafting ascended items cheaper. It's a mechanic with a singular purpose, it was designed that way. Legendary Insights are basically a similar version of Grandmaster crafting tokens, they allow for cheaper ascended armor if so desired. Even if additional ways to spend them would or should be added, making them trade-able directly removes incentive to play the game mode. All those limited developer hours spent going poof. Resources well spent. > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > And this way it would probably be more likely for new people to join this dying game mode. By allowing already spent time on the game mode (already acquired LI) get traded to other players I would love to see how you intend to justify this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Even if additional ways to spend them would or should be added, making them trade-able directly removes incentive to play the game mode. All those limited developer hours spent going poof. Resources well spent. > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > And this way it would probably be more likely for new people to join this dying game mode. > > By allowing already spent time on the game mode (already acquired LI) get traded to other players I would love to see how you intend to justify this argument. have you read OPs comment at all? he asked for LIs to be buyable from raid vendors for magnetite shards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Even if additional ways to spend them would or should be added, making them trade-able directly removes incentive to play the game mode. All those limited developer hours spent going poof. Resources well spent. > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > And this way it would probably be more likely for new people to join this dying game mode. > > > > By allowing already spent time on the game mode (already acquired LI) get traded to other players I would love to see how you intend to justify this argument. > > have you read OPs comment at all? he asked for LIs to be buyable from raid vendors for magnetite shards.... Have you followed the thread at all? Beside the fact that this was already addressed and it has the same effect: Increasing the amount of available LI per week would reduce time played. Why have magnetite shards AND LI, that's double dipping. The rest of my response was in accordance to where the thread had moved to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now