Kasmeer's power boost

[Lord Krilik.3692]

Hi all

 

I recall a few years ago during Season 2 Kasmeer seemed to receive something of a power boost and the writers said there was a reason for this. Did we ever discover what that reason was? We've seen a trend in our companions gaining new abilities which later turn out to be Elite specs (Marjory with a Greatsword; Braham with a Longbow) but this didn't seem to happen with Kas.

 

Can anyone clarify or offer their thoughts? Is this just a scrapped plot point?

[RoseofGilead.8907]

I don't recall that ever leading to anything for her. I think that her surge of power, like her nervous hiccup tic, is just left unresolved.

[lokh.2695]

It's an abandoned plot, like so many in this game.

[TexZero.7910]

It was the power of love.

[Lord Krilik.3692]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> I don't recall that ever leading to anything for her. I think that her surge of power, like her nervous hiccup tic, is just left unresolved.

 

Did she hiccup in PoF? I don't remember, but I think when Balth was revealed in Season 3 it came back. PoF she was probably getting used to the revelation by then.

[Blocki.4931]

Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

[Edgy McEdgelord.4790]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

 

because fanfiction

[Pifil.5193]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> It was the power of love.

 

Is that a force from above, cleaning my soul or a curious thing that makes one man weep and another man sing?

[ImTasty.2163]

> @"Lord Krilik.3692" said:

> Hi all

>

> I recall a few years ago during Season 2 Kasmeer seemed to receive something of a power boost and the writers said there was a reason for this. Did we ever discover what that reason was? We've seen a trend in our companions gaining new abilities which later turn out to be Elite specs (Marjory with a Greatsword; Braham with a Longbow) but this didn't seem to happen with Kas.

>

> Can anyone clarify or offer their thoughts? Is this just a scrapped plot point?

 

She had a power boost? I don't really recall anything like a power boost happening to her in Season 2. The only that comes to mind is Marjory being a sneak peak of the Reaper espec.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

 

That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

>

> That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

 

It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

 

I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

[Blocki.4931]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

> >

> > That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

>

> It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

>

> I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

 

There really isn't anything wrong with it. It's a poor stereotype if they are only defined by it. I don't think that is the case for Kas, she has lots of character outside of it.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

> > >

> > > That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

> >

> > It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

> >

> > I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

>

> There really isn't anything wrong with it. It's a poor stereotype if they are only defined by it. I don't think that is the case for Kas, she has lots of character outside of it.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with the applying that tic to a white, female character in theory. In practice, because of the large number of authors who have done so very poorly, it is spoiled for everyone. Just like, eg, stereotypes that play black women as strong, independent, and absolutely not getting a relationship, or men in a violent, unemotional role.

 

You are right that Kas also, thankfully, has real character beyond that, but ... it still reflects poorly because of the people who have used the trope badly.

 

If we can break those bad writers out of using this so often, we can go to a world where it *isn't* something that smacks of unoriginal, simplistic, copy-and-paste character building, and can be a legitimate trait applied to anyone, by anyone, because it isn't everywhere you look.

[Lord Krilik.3692]

I think the discussion has started to focus more on her annoying hiccup thing than her power boost. I agree, the hiccup makes it seem like she was written by a 12 year old fangirl, but the main thing I was curious about was thew supposed power boost. There was her creating all sorts of portals and the "I can tell when people are lying" thing, which I have a memory of devs confirming were going to be explained later. I don't think this ever happened.

[Fundor.2098]

Scott McGough explained Kasmeer's lie detecting ability here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37780/kasmeers-gift

 

>Kas' gift (being a walking lie detector) was originally conceived as being due more to her mind than magic.

 

>Being a gifted mesmer (an expert at creating illusions would likewise be great at spotting other folks'), years of experience in high society and as a de facto diplomat for the queen (where you often have to conceal your true intentions for formality's sake, and also determine what others are concealing), and a natural talent for reading people/spotting their "tells" (Kas would be a formidable poker player) came together such that Kas' brain is an asset much the same Taimi's is (for tech) and Canach's is (for tactics)--one that provides info/input the team can use.

 

>So Kormir's interest in and rapport with Kas didn't create this gift/its origins aren't rooted in a god's blessing.

 

It doesn't necessarily explain how Kasmeer can create so powerful portals or illusions nor so many clones, but he does call her an expert mesmer. Maybe it's something only expert mesmers can do? :)

The playable character is after all bound by gameplay reasons.

[Lord Krilik.3692]

Hmm... Why isn't she being used as a diplomat more? She comes off as a bit... Blonde, most of the time.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Lord Krilik.3692" said:

> I think the discussion has started to focus more on her annoying hiccup thing than her power boost. I agree, the hiccup makes it seem like she was written by a 12 year old fangirl

 

*cough* wrong gender there, I think. That sort of less than awesome choice is generally not made by people who have actually met women. ;)

 

> but the main thing I was curious about was thew supposed power boost. There was her creating all sorts of portals and the "I can tell when people are lying" thing, which I have a memory of devs confirming were going to be explained later. I don't think this ever happened.

 

No, you are right, we have not seen much explanation of the growth of any of our "guild". OTOH, we have seen, in some cases literally, that they *are* growing as the story progresses, so ... it might be off camera, but the devs are at least doing it across everyone.

[Hannelore.8153]

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ALL SEASONS

 

Keep in mind that its heavily hinted at that Kasmeer was already a Chronomancer at Fort Salma. This is something of a misconception--just like with Rytlock being the first Revenant (he was actually the first *Herald*, and as a retcon, Revenants always existed, just as they do now).

 

Kasmeer never got a power boost, she was the first Chronomancer and was already more powerful than other Mesmers, but her anxiety and suffering over what she had been through over the years, including being stripped of her Noble status, is what was limiting her abilities. Its explained quite simply throughout her journey that her power increases the more mentally and emotionally fortified she becomes, which is why Balthazar was such a threat because it made her question everything once again and destabilised that progress, which had to be regained in PoF.

 

This is the nature of not only Kasmeer, but Humans in general. They are a religious race that have been abandoned by their gods and beaten to the brink of extinction by their enemies (and in many cases, even themselves, e.g Orr, Caudacus, etc.), and only effectively have one nation, one kingdom and one society left. I mean, Elona is a joke, since its mostly been destroyed or subjugated into famine by Joko, and subsequently evacuated after Balthazar.

 

Their entire race is full of people who are not at their full potential because they don't enjoy the relative success that the other races do. If we are to believe the lore, then Human Mesmers in particular are absolute monsters, just look at Queen Jenah.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

> >

> > That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

>

> It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

>

> I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

 

So you're annoyed by a benign stereotype that doesn't change anything but accept the whole "glamour ditzy sparkle mage" stereotype? I mean, if you're going to give Braham the nervous tic, why not give him the reality bending illusion powers while you're at it?

 

Or how about those "Nepoleon" complex little genius tropes? Why not make the salad people the story's ex machina tool generator?

 

 

[Leo G.4501]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Lord Krilik.3692" said:

> > I think the discussion has started to focus more on her annoying hiccup thing than her power boost. I agree, the hiccup makes it seem like she was written by a 12 year old fangirl

>

> *cough* wrong gender there, I think. That sort of less than awesome choice is generally not made by people who have actually met women. ;)

 

Mmm, the hypocrisy ;)

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

> > >

> > > That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

> >

> > It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

> >

> > I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

>

> So you're annoyed by a benign stereotype that doesn't change anything but accept the whole "glamour ditzy sparkle mage" stereotype?

 

No, and if you look at the section between the first and second comma of my first sentence, you will find the area where that would fit. Implicitly, because this was already a diversion from the main thrust of the discussion, and while I thought it was worth adding my agreement, I didn't think it worth diverting fully.

 

> I mean, if you're going to give Braham the nervous tic, why not give him the reality bending illusion powers while you're at it?

 

I would have been vastly more pleased if the two had fully swapped roles, yes. Both are very stereotypical gender presentations for the underlying personality traits they are written with. Swapping them would have been more interesting, even with the same somewhat shallow models.

 

That is, again, a vastly further diversion, and the point here was not to engage in a broad dialog about the role of poorly chosen stereotypes, but to add a brief explanation of why I found this tic annoying -- in part because that "why" is useful feedback to the writers, not just the "what".

 

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"Lord Krilik.3692" said:

> > > I think the discussion has started to focus more on her annoying hiccup thing than her power boost. I agree, the hiccup makes it seem like she was written by a 12 year old fangirl

> >

> > *cough* wrong gender there, I think. That sort of less than awesome choice is generally not made by people who have actually met women. ;)

>

> Mmm, the hypocrisy ;)

 

Really don't follow what you are trying to say here, bud. Wanna spell it out for the audience?

[Leo G.4501]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> Really don't follow what you are trying to say here, bud. Wanna spell it out for the audience?

 

Partially that, if it were someone criticizing a woman or liberal author for typical feminine or progressive used tropes, that isn't allowed or will be reported and silenced but when it's criticizing a man for some sort of common power fantasy-esque trope or whatever, it's a-okay and not sexism.

 

But mainly that, I'm positive there are female writers on the team that read and/or approved of and/or came up with and/or took credit for the characters of the main guild (to include Kasmeer) but we're only going to blame the men writers for the faults of the story or writing? Accountability is the key and while individuals can be held accountable for the writing in the game, what is between those individuals' legs cannot.

 

As for subverting common tropes, it's nice when it's unexpected but it won't be unexpected if you expect it. There's a reason some tropes are common and it's one-part them being good story tools and 2 parts people expecting them to be there. It's all the more easier to subvert a trope when you actually use them with the goal to subvert them within the story.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > Really don't follow what you are trying to say here, bud. Wanna spell it out for the audience?

>

> Partially that, if it were someone criticizing a woman or liberal author for typical feminine or progressive used tropes, that isn't allowed or will be reported and silenced but when it's criticizing a man for some sort of common power fantasy-esque trope or whatever, it's a-okay and not sexism.

 

You may, at some point, of heard people talk about "punching down" and "punching up". That'd be the underlying explanation here, for part of that: male authors, and male gatekeepers, dominate these fields. They hold the power, and the privilege, in this situation. Given that, vs the people who are systematically underrepresented and disempowered, yeah, it's much more OK to criticise one group than the other.

 

> But mainly that, I'm positive there are female writers on the team that read and/or approved of and/or came up with and/or took credit for the characters of the main guild (to include Kasmeer) but we're only going to blame the men writers for the faults of the story or writing? Accountability is the key and while individuals can be held accountable for the writing in the game, what is between those individuals' legs cannot.

 

Honestly, that was mostly pointing out the interesting gender assignment used when complaining about the trope. Suddenly it became a fan*girl* because the writing wasn't great. See also above.

 

> As for subverting common tropes, it's nice when it's unexpected but it won't be unexpected if you expect it. There's a reason some tropes are common and it's one-part them being good story tools and 2 parts people expecting them to be there. It's all the more easier to subvert a trope when you actually use them with the goal to subvert them within the story.

 

Nothing in what you say here is false. It is true that some tropes are good story tools, but... this was about a concrete trope. Are you saying that you firmly believe that the whole ditzy blond with a disempowering nervous tic trope is a good, solid story tool?

 

Your second point, also, rather conflicts with your first one, doesn't it? If people expect these tropes, then subverting them *will* be unexpected. Rather by definition.

 

On the other hand, if people expect these tropes to be subverted, you can't say that they are common because they are expected. You kinda only get to pick one of those two.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > Really don't follow what you are trying to say here, bud. Wanna spell it out for the audience?

> >

> > Partially that, if it were someone criticizing a woman or liberal author for typical feminine or progressive used tropes, that isn't allowed or will be reported and silenced but when it's criticizing a man for some sort of common power fantasy-esque trope or whatever, it's a-okay and not sexism.

>

> You may, at some point, of heard people talk about "punching down" and "punching up". That'd be the underlying explanation here, for part of that: male authors, and male gatekeepers, dominate these fields. They hold the power, and the privilege, in this situation. Given that, vs the people who are systematically underrepresented and disempowered, yeah, it's much more OK to criticise one group than the other.

>

> > But mainly that, I'm positive there are female writers on the team that read and/or approved of and/or came up with and/or took credit for the characters of the main guild (to include Kasmeer) but we're only going to blame the men writers for the faults of the story or writing? Accountability is the key and while individuals can be held accountable for the writing in the game, what is between those individuals' legs cannot.

>

> Honestly, that was mostly pointing out the interesting gender assignment used when complaining about the trope. Suddenly it became a fan*girl* because the writing wasn't great. See also above.

>

 

Well this contains alot of identity politics discussion that I don't have any inclination of discussing here.

 

> > As for subverting common tropes, it's nice when it's unexpected but it won't be unexpected if you expect it. There's a reason some tropes are common and it's one-part them being good story tools and 2 parts people expecting them to be there. It's all the more easier to subvert a trope when you actually use them with the goal to subvert them within the story.

>

> Nothing in what you say here is false. It is true that some tropes are good story tools, but... this was about a concrete trope. Are you saying that you firmly believe that the whole ditzy blond with a disempowering nervous tic trope is a good, solid story tool?

>

 

Yes. Although I don't usually write blonds, I do write ditzy characters with overpowered abilities and some with disempowering tics (I have a Marvel Hulk-esque Asuran Warrior imbued with chaos magic who is as strong as a Norn until he tells a lie...it's a fun story tool that can work solidly, IMO).

 

 

> Your second point, also, rather conflicts with your first one, doesn't it? If people expect these tropes, then subverting them *will* be unexpected. Rather by definition.

>

> On the other hand, if people expect these tropes to be subverted, you can't say that they are common because they are expected. You kinda only get to pick one of those two.

 

Well just because you use a common trope doesn't mean you *should* subvert it, which is what I was getting at.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > Why can't it just be a nervous tick whenever she is stressed out?

> > >

> > > That's exactly what they were going for with it, honestly. It just annoys the crap out of me.

> >

> > It feels like a poor choice, since it plays into the mediocre stereotype applied to blonde, white women by so many terrible writers. They just can't have agency, or competence, without *something* to show that they are also really actually kinda damsals in distress, needing rescue...

> >

> > I'd rather than Braham or someone got it as a tic, than Kasmer. *shrug*

>

> There really isn't anything wrong with it. It's a poor stereotype if they are only defined by it. I don't think that is the case for Kas, she has lots of character outside of it.

She had a lot more character initially, when it seemed that she was a really smart girl pretending to be a dumb blonde. Unfortunately later on writers either forgot she was supposed to be pretending, or that feeling was completely unintentional, and what we saw on the tin was all there was to her from the beginning, and she _was_ meant to be a cliche, stereotyped character.

 

And as for power boost... they definitely intended to go somewhere with it, but the explanation is either still to come, or the whole idea got scrapped.