Mesmers world?

[Nelson.7485]

Nowadays ppl only play mesmers in this game. Anet do you see that? 

 

[Sol.4310]

Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Sol.4310" said:

> Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

 

Ah yes...Mesmers have everything..

 

- Sustained DPS damage (thats why they have 1 shot builds....most ppl who run it do not have that great sustain after until their next burst is ready)

- Sustained condi (Ill give ya that one)

- Awesome condi clears (This is laughable. Hit them with a decent condi burst or a decent amount of condis and they will drop Only real cleanses are torch 4 and jaunt...which clears 1 each)

- Evades: (More of an issue in WvW than in PvP, however EM is still strong...so ill give ya that one)

- AoE pressure: (Possibly one of the poorest classes for AoE. Aside from the tiny AoE from clone shatter they have very little)

- Mobility: (This is another one I will give ya only with Mirage however due to Jaunt)

- Unblockable attacks (GS2 and focus have 1 unblockable attack. Unlike some classes that have x seconds of unblockable, having 1 to 2 attacks unblockable isnt near as strong)

 

Hit them with condi or cleave aoe clones down and you win. DPS theives are the biggest bane as are spellbreakers. If a scourge can get even half their condi burst off on the mesmer, 90% chances they are done for. One of the worst thing you can do when fighting one is group up. You need to stay separated.

 

Even their mega burst takes timing. Evade/survive it and they have an increased chance they wont win.

 

The main issue I read in all their complain threads is EM. Personally i know those that dont run it, however it is a pretty strong (not OP) trait. OP would include 5 clears, restore 5k+ hp and grants stealth each dodge in that 1 trait.

 

Other more minor issues are sword and clone generation. From what I can see and confirm, clone generation is the key to their survival. remove/redo EM and sword and it wont be as big of a deal as nerfing # of clones. Removing phantasms as shatterable wasnt easy, however it did reduce the # of "clones" that did shatter damage, thus reduced the overall damage some.

 

If ppl need help dueling vs condi or DPS mirages, I can gear mine up and help.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Nelson.7485" said:

> Nowadays ppl only play mesmers in this game. Anet do you see that?

 

People are playing mesmer while it's still broken before the balance patch gets released so then they don't have to worry about getting a higher skill rating after the patch.

[Daishi.6027]

Only Condi mirage is the problem.

 

You can stalemate, push off, or win on point vs any power mirage by properly dodging shatters.

 

If you constantly blow up to the one power instacombo, please know that combo is a crutch and nothing else, I actually discourage mesmer from relying on it daily. (usually after I kill them lol) Anticipate and avoid it like a thief, and you can probably win.

 

Condi needs to be nerfed so the stacks are front loaded onto MW and CoF with the same output to put it on par with power shatter, OR Ineptitude needs a icd or to be reworked. It's either to easy or to safe, especially with Blinding Dissipation.

Alternatively you could nerf covers to make cleansing it more effective.

 

Mirage as a whole's ability to survive and escape is on par with thief, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

Mirage as a whole's ability to doge and evade damage is on par if not less than thief and ranger, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

Power **needs** these things to be competitive, do not take it away.

 

If there is overall to much dodging in the game and there has to be a change, then remove or nerf Energy sigils and adventure runes. Honestly I hope that is what happens.

Yes this will affect other classes, some people might even be upset. However if threads like these cause it then oh well, instead of complaining shoulda learned to doge shatters, and play around phants like I did.

 

> @"Sol.4310" said:

> Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

 

you don't need to 2v1, that is a waste you just need to play patient and stow your weapons, evade or throw up a block instead of wasting all your skills in their evades.

 

Most blow their evades to try to burst you and end up being open. If you are a class with safe or covered bust engagements **only** trading those safe bursts, yes Mirage will come out on top. This may seem "Face roll" to many but that is only a noob stomper scenario.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"Nelson.7485" said:

> > Nowadays ppl only play mesmers in this game. Anet do you see that?

>

> People are playing mesmer while it's still broken before the balance patch gets released so then they don't have to worry about getting a higher skill rating after the patch.

 

Mesmer has been the #1 most broken class or 2nd most broken for about 4 patches in a row now... you really think the next patch is going to change anything? One of those patches was a mesmer rework btw which made it by far the most broken troll shit ever

 

Compare to the deadeye rework, whoch changed nothing in pvp and only changed deadeye to be useful in pve... AS A DAGGER BUILD and it's pretty easy to see what anet is doing

[ArthurDent.9538]

Mirage is the result of anet wanting to give mesmer a condi dps spec that does good damage against training golems which in theory shouldn't work since training golems don't actually do anything to trigger confusion or walk around for torment. But they just let it apply a ridiculously high amount of stacks while not actually having to sacrifice their defense so now every monkey can play it and feel pro.

[Chuck.2864]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

>

> Ah yes...Mesmers have everything..

>

> - Sustained DPS damage (thats why they have 1 shot builds....most ppl who run it do not have that great sustain after until their next burst is ready)

> - Sustained condi (Ill give ya that one)

> - Awesome condi clears (This is laughable. Hit them with a decent condi burst or a decent amount of condis and they will drop Only real cleanses are torch 4 and jaunt...which clears 1 each)

> - Evades: (More of an issue in WvW than in PvP, however EM is still strong...so ill give ya that one)

> - AoE pressure: (Possibly one of the poorest classes for AoE. Aside from the tiny AoE from clone shatter they have very little)

> - Mobility: (This is another one I will give ya only with Mirage however due to Jaunt)

> - Unblockable attacks (GS2 and focus have 1 unblockable attack. Unlike some classes that have x seconds of unblockable, having 1 to 2 attacks unblockable isnt near as strong)

>

> Hit them with condi or cleave aoe clones down and you win. DPS theives are the biggest bane as are spellbreakers. If a scourge can get even half their condi burst off on the mesmer, 90% chances they are done for. One of the worst thing you can do when fighting one is group up. You need to stay separated.

>

> Even their mega burst takes timing. Evade/survive it and they have an increased chance they wont win.

>

> The main issue I read in all their complain threads is EM. Personally i know those that dont run it, however it is a pretty strong (not OP) trait. OP would include 5 clears, restore 5k+ hp and grants stealth each dodge in that 1 trait.

>

> Other more minor issues are sword and clone generation. From what I can see and confirm, clone generation is the key to their survival. remove/redo EM and sword and it wont be as big of a deal as nerfing # of clones. Removing phantasms as shatterable wasnt easy, however it did reduce the # of "clones" that did shatter damage, thus reduced the overall damage some.

>

> If ppl need help dueling vs condi or DPS mirages, I can gear mine up and help.

 

Laughable comment riddled with inaccuracies. No sustained damage? Is this a joke? Condi Mirage is the only spec in the game I would say is neither burst nor sustained DPS - the best way to describe it would be sustained bursts.

 

Condi clears - Dodge removes a condi with EM. Hello?

 

Mobility - only Jaunt? What about sword ambush? Hello?

 

Evades - how is this a problem in WvW but not in PvP? You gotta explain that one because I really can't.

 

And you just go on and on. Scourge apparently wrecks condi mirage (What?), EM is not OP (What?)... I actually have no words. Do you even play this class? If you do, have you ever played anything else?

 

[bravan.3876]

> @"Chuck.2864" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

> >

> > Ah yes...Mesmers have everything..

> >

> > - Sustained DPS damage (thats why they have 1 shot builds....most ppl who run it do not have that great sustain after until their next burst is ready)

> > - Sustained condi (Ill give ya that one)

> > - Awesome condi clears (This is laughable. Hit them with a decent condi burst or a decent amount of condis and they will drop Only real cleanses are torch 4 and jaunt...which clears 1 each)

> > - Evades: (More of an issue in WvW than in PvP, however EM is still strong...so ill give ya that one)

> > - AoE pressure: (Possibly one of the poorest classes for AoE. Aside from the tiny AoE from clone shatter they have very little)

> > - Mobility: (This is another one I will give ya only with Mirage however due to Jaunt)

> > - Unblockable attacks (GS2 and focus have 1 unblockable attack. Unlike some classes that have x seconds of unblockable, having 1 to 2 attacks unblockable isnt near as strong)

> >

> > Hit them with condi or cleave aoe clones down and you win. DPS theives are the biggest bane as are spellbreakers. If a scourge can get even half their condi burst off on the mesmer, 90% chances they are done for. One of the worst thing you can do when fighting one is group up. You need to stay separated.

> >

> > Even their mega burst takes timing. Evade/survive it and they have an increased chance they wont win.

> >

> > The main issue I read in all their complain threads is EM. Personally i know those that dont run it, however it is a pretty strong (not OP) trait. OP would include 5 clears, restore 5k+ hp and grants stealth each dodge in that 1 trait.

> >

> > Other more minor issues are sword and clone generation. From what I can see and confirm, clone generation is the key to their survival. remove/redo EM and sword and it wont be as big of a deal as nerfing # of clones. Removing phantasms as shatterable wasnt easy, however it did reduce the # of "clones" that did shatter damage, thus reduced the overall damage some.

> >

> > If ppl need help dueling vs condi or DPS mirages, I can gear mine up and help.

>

> Laughable comment riddled with inaccuracies. No sustained damage? Is this a joke? Condi Mirage is the only spec in the game I would say is neither burst nor sustained DPS - the best way to describe it would be sustained bursts.

>

> Condi clears - Dodge removes a condi with EM. Hello?

>

> Mobility - only Jaunt? What about sword ambush? Hello?

>

> Evades - how is this a problem in WvW but not in PvP? You gotta explain that one because I really can't.

>

> And you just go on and on. Scourge apparently wrecks condi mirage (What?), EM is not OP (What?)... I actually have no words. Do you even play this class? If you do, have you ever played anything else?

>

 

I think he was talking about power not condi or hybrid, ppl clearly dont make enough differences between these. In WvW evades are more of a problem due to bufffood for more dodges.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Chuck.2864" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

> >

> > Ah yes...Mesmers have everything..

> >

> > - Sustained DPS damage (thats why they have 1 shot builds....most ppl who run it do not have that great sustain after until their next burst is ready)

> > - Sustained condi (Ill give ya that one)

> > - Awesome condi clears (This is laughable. Hit them with a decent condi burst or a decent amount of condis and they will drop Only real cleanses are torch 4 and jaunt...which clears 1 each)

> > - Evades: (More of an issue in WvW than in PvP, however EM is still strong...so ill give ya that one)

> > - AoE pressure: (Possibly one of the poorest classes for AoE. Aside from the tiny AoE from clone shatter they have very little)

> > - Mobility: (This is another one I will give ya only with Mirage however due to Jaunt)

> > - Unblockable attacks (GS2 and focus have 1 unblockable attack. Unlike some classes that have x seconds of unblockable, having 1 to 2 attacks unblockable isnt near as strong)

> >

> > Hit them with condi or cleave aoe clones down and you win. DPS theives are the biggest bane as are spellbreakers. If a scourge can get even half their condi burst off on the mesmer, 90% chances they are done for. One of the worst thing you can do when fighting one is group up. You need to stay separated.

> >

> > Even their mega burst takes timing. Evade/survive it and they have an increased chance they wont win.

> >

> > The main issue I read in all their complain threads is EM. Personally i know those that dont run it, however it is a pretty strong (not OP) trait. OP would include 5 clears, restore 5k+ hp and grants stealth each dodge in that 1 trait.

> >

> > Other more minor issues are sword and clone generation. From what I can see and confirm, clone generation is the key to their survival. remove/redo EM and sword and it wont be as big of a deal as nerfing # of clones. Removing phantasms as shatterable wasnt easy, however it did reduce the # of "clones" that did shatter damage, thus reduced the overall damage some.

> >

> > If ppl need help dueling vs condi or DPS mirages, I can gear mine up and help.

>

> Laughable comment riddled with inaccuracies. No sustained damage? Is this a joke? Condi Mirage is the only spec in the game I would say is neither burst nor sustained DPS - the best way to describe it would be sustained bursts.

>

> Condi clears - Dodge removes a condi with EM. Hello?

>

 

If I recall correctly the condi build uses IH, to further the condi pressure. Other than that dodge removes exactly one condition.

How many condis can say a scourge put out in burst? like 4 or 5 unique ones?

 

> Evades - how is this a problem in WvW but not in PvP? You gotta explain that one because I really can't.

>

I think it's the lack of endurance food is what he is talking about. While in Spvp you are not constantly buffed by 40% extra endurance regen.

Mesmer did not suddenly get new abilities that dodge (other than axe 3) The kit for defenses is pretty much the same ( with the addition of EM, but everyone, even most mesmer mains know the flaw of this trait)

> And you just go on and on. Scourge apparently wrecks condi mirage (What?), EM is not OP (What?)... I actually have no words. Do you even play this class? If you do, have you ever played anything else?

>

 

Scourge wrecks condi mirage if that mirage is playing the IH build, or gets condi loaded because again, mesmer dodge with EM removes ONE condition. Scourge is able to apply multiple conditions and most of them are damaging. Also I'm not sure where you read EM is not OP, quote plz

 

He did offer to duel you if you have questions or anything.

 

Side note:

Good duels the other day big had much fun with your power Axe, I'll have to bring my war in one day so I can train up base war xD

[Sol.4310]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> Only Condi mirage is the problem.

>

> You can stalemate, push off, or win on point vs any power mirage by properly dogging shatters.

>

> If you constantly blow up to the one power instacombo, please know that combo is a crutch and nothing else, I actually discourage mesmer from relying on it daily. (usually after I kill them lol) Anticipate and avoid it like a thief, and you can probably win.

>

> Condi needs to be nerfed so the stacks are front loaded onto MW and CoF with the same output to put it on par with power shatter, OR Ineptitude needs a icd or to be reworked. It's either to easy or to safe, especially with Blinding Dissipation.

> Alternatively you could nerf covers to make cleansing it more effective.

>

> Mirage as a whole's ability to survive and escape is on par with thief, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> Mirage as a whole's ability to doge and evade damage is on par if not less than thief and ranger, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> Power **needs** these things to be competitive, do not take it away.

>

> If there is overall to much dogging in the game and there has to be a change, then remove or nerf Energy sigils and adventure runes. Honestly I hope that is what happens.

> Yes this will affect other classes, some people might even be upset. However if threads like these cause it then oh well, instead of complaining shoulda learned to doge shatters, and play around phants like I did.

>

> > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

>

> you don't need to 2v1, that is a waste you just need to play patient and stow your weapons, evade or throw up a block instead of wasting all your skills in their evades.

>

> Most blow their evades to try to burst you and end up being open. If you are a class with safe or covered bust engagements **only** trading those safe bursts, yes Mirage will come out on top. This may seem "Face roll" to many but that is only a noob stomper scenario.

 

Sorry but not every class has the amount of evades needed to keep up with the damage output, being patient vs condition mesmer is more or less saying gg I'm dead. You live in a bubble, to think everyone is spec'ed just to counter mesmers................

 

I don't really have a problem with burst mesmer even know kinda lame how they can 1 shot people from stealth but besides that being so narrow-minded about the fact the class is just flat out strong. it's extremely hard to outrun one you can't catch one and landing your combo on one require so much retargeting over and over and over. The amount of skill I have to use compared to the mesmer is off the charts, I have to play perfectly whereas the mesmer can make mistakes and get away with it.

[lightstalker.1498]

did all the "mesmers" get better or did we all get worse?

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Chuck.2864" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

> > >

> > > Ah yes...Mesmers have everything..

> > >

> > > - Sustained DPS damage (thats why they have 1 shot builds....most ppl who run it do not have that great sustain after until their next burst is ready)

> > > - Sustained condi (Ill give ya that one)

> > > - Awesome condi clears (This is laughable. Hit them with a decent condi burst or a decent amount of condis and they will drop Only real cleanses are torch 4 and jaunt...which clears 1 each)

> > > - Evades: (More of an issue in WvW than in PvP, however EM is still strong...so ill give ya that one)

> > > - AoE pressure: (Possibly one of the poorest classes for AoE. Aside from the tiny AoE from clone shatter they have very little)

> > > - Mobility: (This is another one I will give ya only with Mirage however due to Jaunt)

> > > - Unblockable attacks (GS2 and focus have 1 unblockable attack. Unlike some classes that have x seconds of unblockable, having 1 to 2 attacks unblockable isnt near as strong)

> > >

> > > Hit them with condi or cleave aoe clones down and you win. DPS theives are the biggest bane as are spellbreakers. If a scourge can get even half their condi burst off on the mesmer, 90% chances they are done for. One of the worst thing you can do when fighting one is group up. You need to stay separated.

> > >

> > > Even their mega burst takes timing. Evade/survive it and they have an increased chance they wont win.

> > >

> > > The main issue I read in all their complain threads is EM. Personally i know those that dont run it, however it is a pretty strong (not OP) trait. OP would include 5 clears, restore 5k+ hp and grants stealth each dodge in that 1 trait.

> > >

> > > Other more minor issues are sword and clone generation. From what I can see and confirm, clone generation is the key to their survival. remove/redo EM and sword and it wont be as big of a deal as nerfing # of clones. Removing phantasms as shatterable wasnt easy, however it did reduce the # of "clones" that did shatter damage, thus reduced the overall damage some.

> > >

> > > If ppl need help dueling vs condi or DPS mirages, I can gear mine up and help.

> >

> > Laughable comment riddled with inaccuracies. No sustained damage? Is this a joke? Condi Mirage is the only spec in the game I would say is neither burst nor sustained DPS - the best way to describe it would be sustained bursts.

> >

> > Condi clears - Dodge removes a condi with EM. Hello?

> >

>

> If I recall correctly the condi build uses IH, to further the condi pressure. Other than that dodge removes exactly one condition.

> How many condis can say a scourge put out in burst? like 4 or 5 unique ones?

>

> > Evades - how is this a problem in WvW but not in PvP? You gotta explain that one because I really can't.

> >

> I think it's the lack of endurance food is what he is talking about. While in Spvp you are not constantly buffed by 40% extra endurance regen.

> Mesmer did not suddenly get new abilities that dodge (other than axe 3) The kit for defenses is pretty much the same ( with the addition of EM, but everyone, even most mesmer mains know the flaw of this trait)

> > And you just go on and on. Scourge apparently wrecks condi mirage (What?), EM is not OP (What?)... I actually have no words. Do you even play this class? If you do, have you ever played anything else?

> >

>

> Scourge wrecks condi mirage if that mirage is playing the IH build, or gets condi loaded because again, mesmer dodge with EM removes ONE condition. Scourge is able to apply multiple conditions and most of them are damaging. Also I'm not sure where you read EM is not OP, quote plz

>

> He did offer to duel you if you have questions or anything.

>

> Side note:

> Good duels the other day big had much fun with your power Axe, I'll have to bring my war in one day so I can train up base war xD

 

With your responses to Chuck, you are correct on all account as other people understood at least some of what my friend chuck seems to not be able to grasp. (come on chuck...hello....)

 

Just because something is meta, doesnt mean everyone runs it (le GASP). As mentioned already (and some twice) chuck, EM removes 1 condi. If you think 1 condi clear is an "awesome condi clear" then you have more issues than ya think bud. Even adding Jaunt, thats 2 clears on 2 different sources...still not awesome (and jaunt is not used as a clear most of the time).

 

After both mirage builds (dps and condi) get their initial bursts off, they are not that bad until its recharged. Their sustain isnt that great and I am going to assume by your comment that you got rekt by condi mirages which happens if you are not prepared or see it coming. If you can avoid that initial burst, then you are golden. This is can easily back up as I am a small time streamer and see it all the time...esp in the meta builds. (both PvP and WvW)

 

As mentioned again by others, lack of food buffs make the evades more of an issue in WvW than PvP (keep in mind there are other game modes outside of PvP that uses a different structure). If PvP ever opened up for food buffs, imagine the complaints ppl would have about most classes. PvP is a tamer (fights wise) than wvw due to the restrictions on everything (food/sigils/stats...etc).

 

So that being said chuck, what riddles or inaccuracies are you referring to? I want to make sure my post was clear for ya buddy.

 

And thanks Solori, I had a blast dueling ya. Power axe is awesome and imo underappreciated. I very rarely run meta (as mentioned I dont run sword or EM or that stun mantra) so theres the pressure of playing it like my old daredevil (mobility wise) else im ded. Spellbreakers are my biggest bane so if ya have one, id love to duel it.

 

Im always down for duels if anyone needs help fighting mirages. Im not the best (esp on condi) however you still may learn something that may help ya with your playstyle or build.

[Curunen.8729]

For some reason I read the thread title and now have the mental image of mesmers singing the Barbie song. xD

[Turk.5460]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> Only Condi mirage is the problem.

>

> You can stalemate, push off, or win on point vs any power mirage by properly dogging shatters.

>

> If you constantly blow up to the one power instacombo, please know that combo is a crutch and nothing else, I actually discourage mesmer from relying on it daily. (usually after I kill them lol) Anticipate and avoid it like a thief, and you can probably win.

>

> Condi needs to be nerfed so the stacks are front loaded onto MW and CoF with the same output to put it on par with power shatter, OR Ineptitude needs a icd or to be reworked. It's either to easy or to safe, especially with Blinding Dissipation.

> Alternatively you could nerf covers to make cleansing it more effective.

>

> Mirage as a whole's ability to survive and escape is on par with thief, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> Mirage as a whole's ability to doge and evade damage is on par if not less than thief and ranger, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> Power **needs** these things to be competitive, do not take it away.

>

> If there is overall to much dogging in the game and there has to be a change, then remove or nerf Energy sigils and adventure runes. Honestly I hope that is what happens.

> Yes this will affect other classes, some people might even be upset. However if threads like these cause it then oh well, instead of complaining shoulda learned to doge shatters, and play around phants like I did.

>

> > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

>

> you don't need to 2v1, that is a waste you just need to play patient and stow your weapons, evade or throw up a block instead of wasting all your skills in their evades.

>

> Most blow their evades to try to burst you and end up being open. If you are a class with safe or covered bust engagements **only** trading those safe bursts, yes Mirage will come out on top. This may seem "Face roll" to many but that is only a noob stomper scenario.

 

This is 100% the truth. Condi mirage is the problem. Power mirage is not an issue as long as its burst remains simple to anticipate.

 

The Mesmer mains lobbying for an EM nerf are ones who main Condi and don't even use EM...please, readers, do not fall for that bait/switch. The sheer amount of conditions a mirage can pump out while also having the tools to easily avoid counter-pressure is ridiculous. It's even worse in WvW where the build practically plays itself for you with the inclusion of trailblazer gear...

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Sol.4310" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > Only Condi mirage is the problem.

> >

> > You can stalemate, push off, or win on point vs any power mirage by properly dodging shatters.

> >

> > If you constantly blow up to the one power instacombo, please know that combo is a crutch and nothing else, I actually discourage mesmer from relying on it daily. (usually after I kill them lol) Anticipate and avoid it like a thief, and you can probably win.

> >

> > Condi needs to be nerfed so the stacks are front loaded onto MW and CoF with the same output to put it on par with power shatter, OR Ineptitude needs a icd or to be reworked. It's either to easy or to safe, especially with Blinding Dissipation.

> > Alternatively you could nerf covers to make cleansing it more effective.

> >

> > Mirage as a whole's ability to survive and escape is on par with thief, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> > Mirage as a whole's ability to dodging and evade damage is on par if not less than thief and ranger, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> > Power **needs** these things to be competitive, do not take it away.

> >

> > If there is overall to much dogging in the game and there has to be a change, then remove or nerf Energy sigils and adventure runes. Honestly I hope that is what happens.

> > Yes this will affect other classes, some people might even be upset. However if threads like these cause it then oh well, instead of complaining shoulda learned to dodge shatters, and play around phants like I did.

> >

> > > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

> >

> > you don't need to 2v1, that is a waste you just need to play patient and stow your weapons, evade or throw up a block instead of wasting all your skills in their evades.

> >

> > Most blow their evades to try to burst you and end up being open. If you are a class with safe or covered bust engagements **only** trading those safe bursts, yes Mirage will come out on top. This may seem "Face roll" to many but that is only a noob stomper scenario.

>

> Sorry but not every class has the amount of evades needed to keep up with the damage output, being patient vs condition mesmer is more or less saying gg I'm dead. You live in a bubble, to think everyone is spec'ed just to counter mesmers................

>

> I don't really have a problem with burst mesmer even know kinda lame how they can 1 shot people from stealth but besides that being so narrow-minded about the fact the class is just flat out strong. it's extremely hard to outrun one you can't catch one and landing your combo on one require so much retargeting over and over and over. The amount of skill I have to use compared to the mesmer is off the charts, I have to play perfectly whereas the mesmer can make mistakes and get away with it.

 

You don't need to be specced to counter it, but I think it would be valuable that some should "have to" build to counter something in exchange for another weakness, this is how meta develops, but lucky for the people complaining in this climate they do not have to. Factually speaking you only need 3 defensive cooldowns (including dodges) to mitigate power mirage's damage which shouldn't be hard since most kits contain blocks, evades, invulns, stealth (for AI manipulation purposes), or skills to kite shatters. Even then letting anything land that isn't the one hard hitting combo while being squishy isn't hard to recover from. On top of that you have other options for mitigation such as using the terrain, large AoE bombs, and point black cleaves if you can manipulate their pathing well enough.

Condi "requires" you to use terrain on a lot of meta builds and I do think that is unacceptable for conquest.

 

Also you talk about catching up, condi mirage can easily and constantly barrage an opponent thanks to axe 3. However on a war, ranger, engie, thief, ele, and other mesmers (being more than half the roster here) you can fairly easily contest a power user's damage by fleeing (still using your skills ofc) presuming you can avoid getting stunned and dodge (or kite) the berserker.

Just for fun I love to annoy mesmers on warrior and kite them around, it's pretty amazing unless I screw up and end up in a corner with all their illusions or something, in which case I deserve to die. More often than not, any sword mirage keep blowing their evades trying to get to me, and popping bf or distortion when I bait, guess who usually doesn't have anything else to defend with when I decide to turn around sometimes with rampage lol.~ (I make sure they blow their blinks first)

 

It's not practical to do the above in conquest unless just to clown on ppl, but as for on point If you read what the mesmer is going to do it'll be much less of a struggle, it only seems like he gets to make so many mistakes because of your own ineptitude, target drops do nothing vs the savvy player (especially ones with beefy meta builds that can cleave), unless the mirage is really good at pretending like a clone, and takes no traits that give him away. If a power mirage is winning like that then more power to him, because odds are that builds isn't viable.

[Gwaihir.1745]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

>target drops do nothing vs the savvy player

 

Uh. Target dropping on axe 3 is possibly the best burst counter ever to exist in gw2 and one of the most high level play techniques in the game right now. Incoming burst? Just detarget it the moment they start to burst and they just bursted into thin air. Also given it is the only non stealth skill in the game that can do this without the risk of losing a cap through no contribution rules.

 

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> >target drops do nothing vs the savvy player

>

> Uh. Target dropping on axe 3 is possibly the best burst counter ever to exist in gw2 and one of the most high level play techniques in the game right now. Incoming burst? Just detarget it the moment they start to burst and they just bursted into thin air. Also given it is the only non stealth skill in the game that can do this without the risk of losing a cap through no contribution rules.

>

 

I'm not disputing the power of condi mirage, I made it clear that it needs to be nerfed. Target dropping was in reference to stealth, ambush, and mirror images when in power.

 

That said even vs condi it's not hard as a ranger to go s/d and doge, as war hit stance and cleave the group (by reading the inital engagement to line them up so you hit everything first), with thief either vault, pistol whip, or just keep dodging the list goes on. There are many ways to actively fight this, what is key is reading that engagement and pressuring it. If your attack requires a target, well there are a bunch of clones and these skills hit multiple targets. This is also why it is recommended to NOT have auto targeting on, and to keep promote skill target ON. It's not uncommon to precast on a clone and hit the mesmer as they become targeted.

 

Again not to say condi is balanced, it's output even when pressuring this is very high. My argument is that power does not have such a luxury and is much more balanced.

Everyone complains about the defensive prowess of mirage, when over all it's fair with power and shouldn't be punished for condi's crimes.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> >target drops do nothing vs the savvy player

>

> Uh. Target dropping on axe 3 is possibly the best burst counter ever to exist in gw2 and one of the most high level play techniques in the game right now. Incoming burst? Just detarget it the moment they start to burst and they just bursted into thin air. Also given it is the only non stealth skill in the game that can do this without the risk of losing a cap through no contribution rules.

>

 

Even if Axe 3 didn't target drop it also evades and displaces, most bursts would miss regardless. There are actually 4 drop target skills, Illusionary Ambush, Mirage Advance, and Mirror Images also do it as well as Axes of Symmetry. Sorry clones aren't a non issue now?

[bravan.3876]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> >target drops do nothing vs the savvy player

>

> Uh. Target dropping on axe 3 is possibly the best burst counter ever to exist in gw2 and one of the most high level play techniques in the game right now. Incoming burst? Just detarget it the moment they start to burst and they just bursted into thin air. Also given it is the only non stealth skill in the game that can do this without the risk of losing a cap through no contribution rules.

>

 

When you detarget the moment he already started the burst most stuff will follow the old target and still hit tho. Still detargeting is the worst addition ever with a targeting that is in generally buggy. I have no problem to find the real mesmer after he used axe 3 most of the time (still detargeting is way worse than stealth, during stealth has counterplay with anticipating the movement the random positioning change from most detarget skills is just a pain) but i still cannot target him, neither does mouse clicking work nor tab nor nearest enemie (because that is also most likely a clone), player feels like greyed out, untargetable like a dead ranger pet and that for quite some time after detarget.

[Gwaihir.1745]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > >target drops do nothing vs the savvy player

> >

> > Uh. Target dropping on axe 3 is possibly the best burst counter ever to exist in gw2 and one of the most high level play techniques in the game right now. Incoming burst? Just detarget it the moment they start to burst and they just bursted into thin air. Also given it is the only non stealth skill in the game that can do this without the risk of losing a cap through no contribution rules.

> >

>

> When you detarget the moment he already started the burst most stuff will follow the old target and still hit tho. Still detargeting is the worst addition ever with a targeting that is in generally buggy. I have no problem to find the real mesmer after he used axe 3 most of the time (still detargeting is way worse than stealth, during stealth has counterplay with anticipating the movement the random positioning change from most detarget skills is just a pain) but i still cannot target him, neither does mouse clicking work nor tab nor nearest enemie (because that is also most likely a clone), player feels like greyed out, untargetable like a dead ranger pet and that for quite some time after detarget.

 

Anet needs to quit playing the 'find the mesmer game' it hasn't fooled people for quite some time.

 

Any class that uses a a mobility skill to land their burst, be it judges intervention or greatsword rushing etc you have your burst thrown into midair or silenced due to target required to fire. And most bursts in the game can not be landed without a mobility skill used prior, also most bursts require you to set up with your cooldowns to either precast skills or prestack boons.

 

A forced lock break is hellishly op if it isn't stealth. Stealth means they have to stop dealing damage and lose capture contribution.

 

This is the (only)? skill in the game that directly affects the ui of another player.

 

Also with some testing on my part this skills lock break is not affected by stability, and I sure as hell consider this a crowd control. If this isn't so anyone is free to test properly and say otherwise. I conclude from this that anet considers this skill in its own category of 'effing with your opponents ui'. So hell anet why not just hand control of our characters over to the mesmer so we can have it out in the open already.

 

[Daishi.6027]

Clones are just an inferior resource mechanic without target drop. I'd be in favor of giving more stealth and removing clone as a whole and having shatters work another way...

 

But that is never going to happen and thief already exists.

 

Besides this is kind of what was intended from the start, but of course it wasn't going to actually fool anyone. At least now you can hide in clones and try to pretend to be like one presuming your traits or boons don't give you away.

[Sol.4310]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > Only Condi mirage is the problem.

> > >

> > > You can stalemate, push off, or win on point vs any power mirage by properly dogging shatters.

> > >

> > > If you constantly blow up to the one power instacombo, please know that combo is a crutch and nothing else, I actually discourage mesmer from relying on it daily. (usually after I kill them lol) Anticipate and avoid it like a thief, and you can probably win.

> > >

> > > Condi needs to be nerfed so the stacks are front loaded onto MW and CoF with the same output to put it on par with power shatter, OR Ineptitude needs a icd or to be reworked. It's either to easy or to safe, especially with Blinding Dissipation.

> > > Alternatively you could nerf covers to make cleansing it more effective.

> > >

> > > Mirage as a whole's ability to survive and escape is on par with thief, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> > > Mirage as a whole's ability to doge and evade damage is on par if not less than thief and ranger, it's not imba there; and it's not imba here.

> > > Power **needs** these things to be competitive, do not take it away.

> > >

> > > If there is overall to much dogging in the game and there has to be a change, then remove or nerf Energy sigils and adventure runes. Honestly I hope that is what happens.

> > > Yes this will affect other classes, some people might even be upset. However if threads like these cause it then oh well, instead of complaining shoulda learned to doge shatters, and play around phants like I did.

> > >

> > > > @"Sol.4310" said:

> > > > Why not is mega easy faceroll class, honestly getting sick of having to fight them 2v1 just to kill one as it's too risky to fight one solo as they should never lose a 1v1 ever.

> > >

> > > you don't need to 2v1, that is a waste you just need to play patient and stow your weapons, evade or throw up a block instead of wasting all your skills in their evades.

> > >

> > > Most blow their evades to try to burst you and end up being open. If you are a class with safe or covered bust engagements **only** trading those safe bursts, yes Mirage will come out on top. This may seem "Face roll" to many but that is only a noob stomper scenario.

> >

> > Sorry but not every class has the amount of evades needed to keep up with the damage output, being patient vs condition mesmer is more or less saying gg I'm dead. You live in a bubble, to think everyone is spec'ed just to counter mesmers................

> >

> > I don't really have a problem with burst mesmer even know kinda lame how they can 1 shot people from stealth but besides that being so narrow-minded about the fact the class is just flat out strong. it's extremely hard to outrun one you can't catch one and landing your combo on one require so much retargeting over and over and over. The amount of skill I have to use compared to the mesmer is off the charts, I have to play perfectly whereas the mesmer can make mistakes and get away with it.

>

> You don't need to be specced to counter it, but I think it would be valuable that some should "have to" build to counter something in exchange for another weakness, this is how meta develops, but lucky for the people complaining in this climate they do not have to. Factually speaking you only need 3 defensive cooldowns (including doges) to mitigate power mirage's damage which shouldn't be hard since most kits contain blocks, evades, invulns, stealth (for AI manipulation purposes), or skills to kite shatters. Even then letting anything land that isn't the one hard hitting combo while being squishy isn't hard to recover from. On top of that you have other options for mitigation such as using the terrain, large AoE bombs, and point black cleaves if you can manipulate their pathing well enough.

> Condi "requires" you to use terrain on a lot of meta builds and I do think that is unacceptable for conquest.

>

> Also you talk about catching up, condi mirage can easily and constantly barrage an opponent thanks to axe 3. However on a war, ranger, engie, thief, ele, and other mesmers (being more than half the roster here) you can fairly easily contest a power user's damage by fleeing (still using your skills ofc) presuming you can avoid getting stunned and doge (or kite) the berserker.

> Just for fun I love to annoy mesmers on warrior and kite them around, it's pretty amazing unless I screw up and end up in a corner with all their illusions or something, in which case I deserve to die. More often than not, any sword mirage keep blowing their evades trying to get to me, and popping bf or distortion when I bait, guess who usually doesn't have anything else to defend with when I decide to turn around sometimes with rampage lol.~ (I make sure they blow their blinks first)

>

> It's not practical to do the above in conquest unless just to clown on ppl, but as for on point If you read what the mesmer is going to do it'll be much less of a struggle, it only seems like he gets to make so many mistakes because of your own ineptitude, target drops do nothing vs the savvy player (especially ones with beefy meta builds that can cleave), unless the mirage is really good at pretending like a clone, and takes no traits that give him away. If a power mirage is winning like that then more power to him, because odds are that builds isn't viable.

 

Not sure why you keep making such long posts, when you even say yourself its to strong. It's like you want it to stay strong so you can keep living in your bubble. Also no one wants to make a build just to beat one class but get countered by everyone else, when I play burst I know what counters me and one class that makes my life living nightmare is condition mesmer. Power I hate at times but atleast I can kill them when I play power, if I went condition ranger I'd get murdered by a mesmer... Sorry but not all our builds have unreal amounts of condition remove, to get that level condition remove we basiclly kill our ability to kill anything.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Sol.4310" said:

> Not sure why you keep making such long posts, when you even say yourself its to strong. It's like you want it to stay strong so you can keep living in your bubble. Also no one wants to make a build just to beat one class but get countered by everyone else, when I play burst I know what counters me and one class that makes my life living nightmare is condition mesmer. Power I hate at times but atleast I can kill them when I play power, if I went condition ranger I'd get murdered by a mesmer... Sorry but not all our builds have unreal amounts of condition remove, to get that level condition remove we basiclly kill our ability to kill anything.

 

The only thing I'm arguing for is Power to stay intact as it is, but I will call out hyperbolic claims and I should be doing so.

It's better to challenging your uncogent arguments, because it does a disservice to the game in the long run if we want real balance.

 

I don't know what you mean by bubble? I don't play Condi mirage **at all** I have no agenda to keep it as strong as it is, and would like to see it brought in line.

I thought I made that clear.

 

If you mean bubble as in like a conformation bias, then sorry; I know how to counter condi mirage, and have countered them on many builds with minimal cleanses (cleans max 3-5 sometimes on a shared cooldown depending on the class and spec). You make it sound like everyone has to spec into hard clears it to beat them, when that is just not the case. Maybe you run a custom build that is squishier than the meta, maybe you specifically do need to use cleanses to counter it, maybe it is impossible for you to be able to avoid it, whatever the case may be the game shouldn't balance around people's inability to do something, when that something can be learnt.

 

Either way, I'd rather call people out on it so the right things get nerfed in the right way, and that is so it is still strong and viable, but does not over perform in upper middle to high tier which is where I want ALL classes to be with an option for both power or condi.

[jihm.2315]

memser is fine best at spvp best at wvw but all is good cause its mesmer