Ephemiel.5694 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 It's all over now and they both got what they deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees wold be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. Dude, logic is not about what you "see," it is about what the result of the statistics indicate. You cannot project whatever the fuck you want on the data results. And this statement is just dumb. I could use this fall logic in anything it will be flat out wrong. Mesmer is currently the strongest class in almost every game mode. Everyone should play only Mesmer. But do they?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid". Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean. 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Blocki.4931 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees wold be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. > > Dude, logic is not about what you "see," it is about what the result of the statistics indicate. You cannot project whatever the kitten you want on the data results. > > And this statement is just dumb. I could use this fall logic in anything it will be flat out wrong. Mesmer is currently the strongest class in almost every game mode. Everyone should play only Mesmer. But do they?! You're literally putting words I haven't said into my mouth to prove your own point. Why would men asking for a raise more often than women have anything to do with their gender? When it's been proven to be the case a lot of times? Are women physically unable to utter those words? Are they controlled by some evil puppet master man? But whatever. Keep believing in santa if that makes you happy. Not worth repeating the same shit that's been said a thousand times before. Dont @ me ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinVec.3621 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > (I know I said I wouldn't comment again, but this is a PSA, not in reply to anyone, nor will I reply) > Peter Fries has seemingly deleted all tweets in connection (tagged) to JP's. The only one remaining is: > Very disappointing to see. Thank you for commenting again to share this development. ~~I expect he was told to delete them as a result of their 'internal discussions'. However, I expect that deleting them is worse than leaving them up as that shows clear admission of wrongdoing. I doubt PR would command such an act be taken without a game plan and I also doubt that he took it upon himself to delete them. This may be a sign that they've determined a course of action and, if so, I interpret this development as meaning that PF would be remaining, though JP and possibly another may not.~~ ~~Or...operation "RugSweep" has begun, though a lot of good it will do considering it is all archived and screenshots of the tweets are posted all over reddit and many other places.~~ ~~(all my own speculation and interpretations, of course)~~ ~~It will be quite interesting to see how this goes over the next few days.~~ edit: Apparently I should've caught up on the last 20+min of developments before posting this. I honestly did not expect handling the situation this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > > > I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree? > > > > If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender. > > > Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time. > > > > So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on.... > > Hold on, I'm not the same guy, never denied it was a reality. > But you're basically saying this is a conditioning as well right here. I think we all agree on what needs to be done. > And the fact is less and less "men" are abusing that sort of power. And for those who do, they better not get caught and they're getting a storm on their way (rightfully so). > For all the rest of us who are fully on board with feminism (the non radical one) we all WANT everyone to be equally paid and have equal chances at everything. > > I know you are not the same guy I was just saying that denying there is a wage gap is like supporting that earth is flat. I could not agree more with the rest of your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 mesmers? .... :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. > > You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid". > Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean. But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol. She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. > > > > You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid". > > Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean. > > But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol. > She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise. Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? > > Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. Not if she tried to implement her toxic ideas and attitude into her work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > > > > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. > > > > > > You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid". > > > Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean. > > > > But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol. > > She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise. > > Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not. > But it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? > > Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. Well there could have been internal talks we won't know about (better that way). I really, really however this won't cause internal problems. The game is great and has been really good recently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? > > > > Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. > The game is great and has been really good recently... That's subjective. I don't really like E3 and I think that they're intentionally overlooking fundamental flaws the game has, though that is subjective too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > > > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > > > > > > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) > > > > > > > > > > > > This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics. > > > > > > > > > > > > And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it. > > > > > > > > You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid". > > > > Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean. > > > > > > But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol. > > > She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise. > > > > Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not. > > > > But it does. If you say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"OrbitalButt.5708" said: > Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards Orbitally Butt Blast™ the thread Also that TM is really damn tiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"OrbitalButt.5708" said: > > Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards > > Orbitally Butt Blast™ the thread I have the power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? > > > > > > Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. > > The game is great and has been really good recently... > > That's subjective. I don't really like E3 and I think that they're intentionally overlooking fundamental flaws the game has, though that is subjective too. Well yeah it is, but here is not the place to discuss about it. I'm just concerned about the general moral of the company after this. It's like... lots of people got implicated by proxy and didn't deserve this. I think they deserve all the support we can give right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskasnowgirl.6047 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Mike O Brien.4613" said: > Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company. > > I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you. > > Mo Mike O Brien posted this in another thread. I am grateful for ANET doing the right thing here, and doing it promptly. Thank you to everyone who expressed constructive opinions in this thread. While we might not all agree about the outcome, I think many of us can agree that prompt action and a clear statement from ANET on such a controversy so quickly is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecrosanct.4028 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF? > > Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion. The way these things usually go is that said employee is called to the manager's office/HR to talk about the incident. Depending on what happens during that conversation, a decision will be reached. Options will probably have been discussed before the meeting. We don't know what happened behind closed doors and we won't find out either, nor should we. It's enough that ArenaNet took the matter seriously and dealt with it. We can have opinions about the outcome, but we have no say in it. It's literally their business, not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > @"castlemanic.3198" said: > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > Where are these quantitative facts? I have never heard that female game developers get more hate *because* they are female. If it's true that female game developers get more hate, maybe it's because the products and changes they push aren't desired? That isn't sexism, that's consumerism. > > > > > > Besides observable history? > > > > > > https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/12241890/women-game-development > > > > > > https://kotaku.com/d-d-wouldn-t-be-what-it-is-today-without-these-women-1796426183 > > > > > > http://theconversation.com/more-women-are-becoming-game-developers-but-theres-a-long-way-to-go-79843 > > > > > > https://mashable.com/2018/01/09/video-game-diversity/#JEcOTwVIjOqM > > > > > > https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-more-women-into-game-development-1783683864 > > > > > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/games-industry-more-women-working-but-gender-bias-remains-issue/8741744 > > > > > > http://www.unite-it.eu/profiles/blogs/why-are-so-few-women-developing-video-games > > > > > > https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/12/12891628/videogame-industry-salary-survey > > > > > > Just a couple of articles for you that cover not only harassment from gamers but also stuff women deal with from their colleagues. And this is a quick google search. > > > > > > > None of that is hate. Having unequal representation isn't harassment. Not only that, you cite the same resource many times which is going to have a bias (especially kotaku). > > > > Lastly, none of that is quantitative. > > > > > > I bet you a large sum of money, if the shoe were on the other foot, and a male game developer were telling a female commentor to go back in the kitchen and make a sandwich or something, this wouldn't be the stance you'd take. > > > https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/star-wars-kelly-marie-tran-leaves-social-media-harassment-1202830892/). So the truth works against you. > > > > > > > I'm actually well versed in the topic of star wars and the recent backlash. You do realize Rian J received far more hate and criticism than the actress if Rose. The only thruth is, when you take a beloved franchise and drag it through the mud of identity politics, your going to have a mud covered franchise that people don't like any more. > > > > > Besides, 'go make a sandwhich' is not on the same level of calling someone sexist for a difference in opinion. There isn't a good comparison because, again, men in general get less hate in the industry. You're free to ignore the very observable habits of women getting chased off of media platforms for death threats because they merely exist in the industry. > > > > > > > It's only not comparable because woman feel it's not, not because it is logically or quantifiably not comparable. > > > > > > I'm going to say it right now: female game developers do not get more online hate, they just complain about it more. In fact, practically all the criticism laid on thick about this game, the ones expected to shoulder the responsibility for those failings are men. Even if women played a part in the teams that fail us, it's generally expected to be the man's fault. That's just how things go and its the other side of sexism that men have to deal with but usually never nag women about. Whenever a bad thing happens, it's a man's fault. Whenever backlash happens, it's not the woman's fault and you should empathize with her. Whenever something needs to be fixed, it's a man's problem to do the work. Whenever success is achieved and a woman is there, the woman will take an equal share of the credit even though she didn't put in an equal share of the work. > > > > > > > > All of those observations, I assure you, any man will attest to but won't ever whine about. > > > > > > As a man myself, let me make it clear that you are presenting a series of factually incorrect statements, especially with regards to the gaming industry. > > > > > > > Then prove it. You can say it's not true in the gaming industry, but how about in every other industry? How about the equality of work and published studies by men vs women in nursing? Or education? The facts are, men do go the extra mile but we will say women are still equally as hard working. > > > > This isn't a shot at women because I know there are women out there that work their bum off. This is a jab at identity politicians who think rounding up statistics by gender mean anything for the individual. The only thing your article links tell me is there are women willing to complain about anything and weak willed men out there that just take their word for it. > > > > > Are you really going to tell me that she took credit for somebody else's work? There's a historical precedent for men to take sole credit of the work of women (which continues to this day) so your argument falls flat there. > > > > > > > I didn't say that. That is in context of everything. When there is a problem, it's the man's fault but when victory is abound, there will be women who share in the spoils. > > Leo G.4501, You got valid points. But are you really going to excuse her behavior for real? Cuz her attacks was unwarranted & had no merits. > It's clear in this case she's the bully. On the contrary. I see her as a bully protected by the female activists and male white knights and she should get the same treatment she dishes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy McEdgelord.4790 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hats off to ANet, could not have been an easy decision. Yet they pulled through. Its been what most customers wanted, but still it leaves a stale taste behind. Idk man, idk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 In real life situation you are representing the company you work with if you are wearing the uniform even outside work hours. Did it happen during work hours? Was she posting stuff with tag on her Nick that says Arena Dev? Etc If yes then Arena net should review and provide comment. If no, then she is entitled to have her private life and own opinion to things. Don't judge others .. our opinion is wide and unbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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