GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> Covering your personal twitter with your company's name, acting as a representative of that company via your personal twitter, and then using your personal twitter to make derogatory statements towards people based on protected classes like gender, race, nationality or religion (oh, and also celebrating a cancer victim's death) is not going to end well for anyone.

>

> Saying, after the fact, "it's my personal twitter!" is the corporate equivalent of "I'm not touching you!"

 

All she did was not being complacent in the face of covert sexism, which is something she should be applauded for, not fired.

 

And the only thing I saw her tweet about TBs death was being glad that an abusive person has no longer the opportunity to be abusive, which I'm absolutely fine with.

 

[Fatal Frame.9568]

> @"Nagi.8941" said:

 

> It’s amazing how many people here think that a professional woman is not capable of controlling her own emotions and that it is the duty of the big strong capable man in the situation to make sure not to upset her. It’s really tiring seeing how many of you with “good intentions” view women like irrational children who will blow up at any minute.

>

> She’s an adult. She’s a professional. She chose to react how she did, and it’s not his place to control her reaction to his respectful attempt to have a conversation with her.

 

Precisely. It's as if people who subscribe to this kind of ideology think that anyone who they consider to be "marginalised" in society have no agency of their own, instead of treating them like adults and individuals.

[Tolmos.8395]

> @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> >

> > >

> > > If she said this, the whole situation wouldn't have happened. However, she tried to make an example out of him and suffered the consequences. It's her fault, not Deroir's.

> >

> > Better in turn to make an example out of the woman who had to deal with someone outside her profession obviously ignoring the subcontext of an essay she wrote out for the sake of taking a cheap pot-shot at her writing. That is so much better right?

>

> Except no cheap pot shot was taken. And even if it was, she is a professional. Despite what some of you may think, women are actually capable of controlling emotion and not just blowing up every time someone makes a sideways comment. It’s not the fault of a third party that she chose to act unprofessionally while purposefully representing her company.

>

> As a fully capable adult, she made a conscious decision. Sometimes those decisions have consequences, as hers did. Also, she is more than capable of handling those consequences without male intervention.

 

The number of fedoras being tipped in defense of poor defenseless m'lady is pretty bizarre. It's mind boggling how many men here honestly believe she is incapable of controlling her own emotions and it was on the men of the conversation to tip-toe around her, and essentially avoid making eye contact, to keep her from doing something that might cost her her job. >_>

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Alfador.7649" said:

> > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > @"Daxramas.1940" said:

> > > > > @"morology.2507" said:

> > > > > Disgusted to see ArenaNet pandering to a pathetic ggate-style hate mob. I won't be playing their games anymore.

> > > >

> > > > Are you willing to elaborate on this?

> > >

> > > O'Brien characterized not only JPs but PFs actions as "attacks against the community" and didn't lose one word about the incredibly toxic reactions they both had to face from certain despicable "community members". He threw both of them under the bus, even PF although all he did was defend JPs position in polite(!) words. If that's not pandering, tell me what is.

> > >

> > > As CEO he has responsibility towards his employees, to back them up against unreasonable demands from "consumers" who don't get that they purchased a product, not the time and life of the people who worked on said product. He did an incredible disservice to JP and PFand couldn't have handled this whole thing worse.

> >

> > JP launched an unprovoked attack on the community. Like it her not her job pretty much entails doing _exactly not that_. Anet didn't pander to anyone. These people made their own bed and quite frankly even had nobody said a single word calling for her termination, just seeing that conduct should have been enough for them to fire her on the spot. Employees who launch unprovoked attacks on customers are bad employers, full stop. It's profoundly unprofessional and indefensible. If someone working for me got even half as hostile as she did with a customer, let alone a content partner, in public display, with the company name on their profile and while discussing company business, I wouldn't even wait for someone to complain to show them the door, _even if I agreed with everything they said_.

>

> Then I'm very sorry for the employees who have to work under you. Sacrificing their personal agency on their personal feed about something that directly affects them, just because their employer fears some bad publicity (which they handled incredibly poorly) is not worth it. I'M proud of JP and PF for speaking out against covert sexism and especially JP doesn't owe anyone any false friendliness.

 

There is something wrong with you. Person who calling names their customers who actually giving him monthly paycheck should be fired instantly. It makes your company 's looks bad making all employees on the same level of that person.

You dont bite hand thats feeding you.

 

[Nagi.8941]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > Covering your personal twitter with your company's name, acting as a representative of that company via your personal twitter, and then using your personal twitter to make derogatory statements towards people based on protected classes like gender, race, nationality or religion (oh, and also celebrating a cancer victim's death) is not going to end well for anyone.

> >

> > Saying, after the fact, "it's my personal twitter!" is the corporate equivalent of "I'm not touching you!"

>

> All she did was not being complacent in the face of covert sexism, which is something she should be applauded for, not fired.

>

> And the only thing I saw her tweet about TBs death was being glad that an abusive person has no longer the opportunity to be abusive, which I'm absolutely fine with.

>

 

It’s amazing how many people consider sllight disagreement in a conversation to be “covert sexism”. I apparently deal with sexism in my life a lot more than I thought.

[morology.2507]

> @"victor.9472" said:

> I'd like to congratulate ArenaNet for taking actions face the current situation.

> I myself strive for ethics--

 

"Actually it's about ethics in..."

 

Yeah, anyone who doesn't know what this is really about by now is just being wilfully ignorant.

 

[Dami.5046]

post changed due to lack of facts.

[Maxxamillion.4125]

Every single post in this thread offends me, including my own.

I need to got to my safe space (scouting Fire Keep).

[muffi.3964]

LoL @ some ppl here implying g#gatewas involved or that it's a misogynist issue.

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"Nagi.8941" said:

> It’s amazing how many people consider “lslight disagreement in a conversation to be “covert sexism”. I apparently deal with sexism in my life a lot more than I thought.

 

It's the uncalled-for "offering" of said disagreement to an essay that in no way was written as a "So what do you guys think about this?" kind of thread. JP made a statement and did not ask for opinions.

But of course, she is expected to "suck it up" bc it's a customer who offers his opinion.

 

If I would be swiping floors in a supermarket, talking to a colleague (or even myself, idc) about the way others criticise my swiping and then some random customer of said store comes up to me to criticise how I swipe the floor, I sure as hell wouldn't thank them for their input.

[Chorazin.4107]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> All she did was not being complacent in the face of covert sexism, which is something she should be applauded for, not fired.

 

 

Yeah so covert as to not exist.

[Menoitios.8375]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > Covering your personal twitter with your company's name, acting as a representative of that company via your personal twitter, and then using your personal twitter to make derogatory statements towards people based on protected classes like gender, race, nationality or religion (oh, and also celebrating a cancer victim's death) is not going to end well for anyone.

> >

> > Saying, after the fact, "it's my personal twitter!" is the corporate equivalent of "I'm not touching you!"

>

> All she did was not being complacent in the face of covert sexism, which is something she should be applauded for, not fired.

>

> And the only thing I saw her tweet about TBs death was being glad that an abusive person has no longer the opportunity to be abusive, which I'm absolutely fine with.

>

 

There was no covert sexism, it was pretty obvious that Deroir's response was really well thought out and crafted to be as objective and inoffensive as possible. In fact, he did such a great job with it you could send that exact message to anyone regardless of their identifiers and it would have been acceptable.

 

In regards to her comment on TB she literally said she is glad that he is dead. Why is it okay to celebrate someones death? It's not. Should we not be critical of his work posthumously? No, we should be; however, we should not be insensitive and celebrate his death (or anyone's death for that matter).

 

Edit: that not the*

 

Edit2: Also, if it was unwanted feedback why was it posted on a public forum (Twitter)? Additionally, she could have easily ignored his comments all together, like an adult.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> I seriously think there needs to be a back pedal here. You are blaming one person for a seemly unprovoked attack on a 'partner' on twitter who then goes on to publicly post on you tube what 'justice' had been serviced. Is that not just as bad?

> doesn't make him the good guy in my books.

>

>

 

the video that was linked above istn´t deroir though. and ther is no such video off him.

factcheck before you comment please

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > It’s amazing how many people consider “lslight disagreement in a conversation to be “covert sexism”. I apparently deal with sexism in my life a lot more than I thought.

>

> It's the uncalled-for "offering" of said disagreement to an essay that in no way was written as a "So what do you guys think about this?" kind of thread. JP made a statement and did not ask for opinions.

> But of course, she is expected to "suck it up" bc it's a customer who offers his opinion.

>

> If I would be swiping floors in a supermarket, talking to a colleague (or even myself, idc) about the way others criticise my swiping and then some random customer of said store comes up to me to criticise how I swipe the floor, I sure as hell wouldn't thank them for their input.

 

Would you cuss them out?

 

Would your boss be ok with that?

[phokus.8934]

> @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > If she said this, the whole situation wouldn't have happened. However, she tried to make an example out of him and suffered the consequences. It's her fault, not Deroir's.

> > >

> > > Better in turn to make an example out of the woman who had to deal with someone outside her profession obviously ignoring the subcontext of an essay she wrote out for the sake of taking a cheap pot-shot at her writing. That is so much better right?

> >

> > Except no cheap pot shot was taken. And even if it was, she is a professional. Despite what some of you may think, women are actually capable of controlling emotion and not just blowing up every time someone makes a sideways comment. It’s not the fault of a third party that she chose to act unprofessionally while purposefully representing her company.

> >

> > As a fully capable adult, she made a conscious decision. Sometimes those decisions have consequences, as hers did. Also, she is more than capable of handling those consequences without male intervention.

>

> The number of fedoras being tipped in defense of poor defenseless m'lady is pretty bizarre. It's mind boggling how many men here honestly believe she is incapable of controlling her own emotions and it was on the men of the conversation to tip-toe around her, and essentially avoid making eye contact, to keep her from doing something that might cost her her job. >_>

 

Some people are natural contrarians and anyone backing up JP is clear evidence of that. Anyone backing her up has no sense of morality and that's the truly damning issue plaguing today's society.

[Nagi.8941]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > It’s amazing how many people consider “lslight disagreement in a conversation to be “covert sexism”. I apparently deal with sexism in my life a lot more than I thought.

>

> It's the uncalled-for "offering" of said disagreement to an essay that in no way was written as a "So what do you guys think about this?" kind of thread. JP made a statement and did not ask for opinions.

> But of course, she is expected to "suck it up" bc it's a customer who offers his opinion.

>

> If I would be swiping floors in a supermarket, talking to a colleague (or even myself, idc) about the way others criticise my swiping and then some random customer of said store comes up to me to criticise how I swipe the floor, I sure as hell wouldn't thank them for their input.

 

So... she started a conversation on a public forum, that she specifically left public of her own accord. She got a response from a member of the public forum, who was able to see it because she specifically left the post public. But because the post slightly disagreed, it’s covert sexism?

 

I just learned that I might be the most oppressed person in history based on this new information.

[Dami.5046]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > I seriously think there needs to be a back pedal here. You are blaming one person for a seemly unprovoked attack on a 'partner' on twitter who then goes on to publicly post on you tube what 'justice' had been serviced. Is that not just as bad?

> > doesn't make him the good guy in my books.

> >

> >

>

> the video that was linked above istn´t deroir though. and ther is no such video off him.

> factcheck before you comment please

 

Oh my mistake.

So sorry.

I deleted the post.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

>I would just like to add that said 'you tuber' making a 'serves you right' (to find a better phase) video and laughing about what has happened, doesn't make this so black and white.

>

 

The internet is full of sad stuff.

One great reason not to expose yourself to it liberally.

 

[Tolmos.8395]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > I seriously think there needs to be a back pedal here. You are blaming one person for a seemly unprovoked attack on a 'partner' on twitter who then goes on to publicly post on you tube what 'justice' had been serviced. Is that not just as bad?

> > > doesn't make him the good guy in my books.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > the video that was linked above istn´t deroir though. and ther is no such video off him.

> > factcheck before you comment please

>

> Oh my mistake.

> So sorry.

> I deleted the post.

 

Mistakes happen. This conversation is flying by so fast it's hard to get a post in on topic and still have time to double check things along the way.

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> Would you cuss them out?

>

> Would your boss be ok with that?

 

I would tell them to get lost.

 

> @"Nagi.8941" said:

> So... she started a conversation on a public forum, that she specifically left public of her own accord. She got a response from a member of the public forum, who was able to see it because she specifically left the post public. But because the post slightly disagreed, it’s covert sexism?

>

> I just learned that I might be the most oppressed person in history based on this new information.

 

How did she start a conversation? She posted a thread of information for people to read. Again, nowhere did she ask for opinions or critique.

 

It's the fact that he felt entitled enough to disregard her lengthy essay in what essentially boils down to a "well actually", no matter how well articulated it may have been, and expect to be met with enthusiasm.

He was just the one who got the stone rolling though. The toxic mess that ensued afterwards is mostly thanks to the "community" O'Brien seems to love so much that he willingly throws valued employees under the bus.

[rockshock.6378]

So, It's okey to celebrate someones death but not celebrate a person getting fired cause she's a woman? That's what i'm getting from the people defending JP.

[Virgil.2601]

The speed at which Anet handed this was surprisingly fast. I suspect JP (and possibly Fries) were already on thin ice within the office and this gave the company the justification they needed to let her go. Considering the nature of some of her tweets over the years it could make sense.

[Kolzi.5928]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Kolzi.5928" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"Kolzi.5928" said:

> > > > > @"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

> > > > > Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

> > > > >

> > > > > I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mo

> > > >

> > > > The hooting masses win again. Clearly her actions were inappropriate but was it worth destroying the livelihoods of two people? Don't worry MO, I don't blame you, I blame the cretins who were swarming all over this calling for it.

> > >

> > > Most ppl wanted her to get punished which doesn't mean fired. And i very much doubt (given anets history with issues the community had with other devs) that they would fire her because a part of the community demanded it. Far more likely there were internal issues with jp as well.

> >

> > Really? Then why did Peter Fries also get fired? You think he also by some huge coincidence was having internal issues after 12 years or whatever?

> >

> > Plenty of people were saying what she did was wrong and there should be something done. I'm not taking issue with those people, I was one of them. There were also however a TON of people calling for her to be fired and let's not pretend otherwise.

>

> He could have stepped down on principal or he might have been on thin ice for something unrelated like leaking to much information in his replies. Or maybe he was fired for being involved

>

> But barely anybody was complaining about peter since all anger was towards jp. You could argue that jp was fired because of peer presure (a poor argument but an argument non the less) but not peter.

>

> We won't know until more info is released (that's if) but i find the claim highly unlikely.

>

> Also the fire dev crowed tends to be a loud minority during events like this so atributing anything to them is kinda silly to me.

 

You think Peter Fries stepped down in solidarity with someone he's worked with for a few months from a company which he obviously loves and has worked with for 12 years? And you think the company then chose to include his stepping down in the post made in this thread with the strong implication that he was fired? You're really reaching here.

 

By the way, this thread literally says JP they no longer work here as a result of this posting. So you really can't make claims that it wasn't due to other stuff. You're just making believe at that point.

 

A loud minority they may be, but the whole point of loud minorities is that they get things done because they are loud. That's how it works.

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"rockshock.6378" said:

> So, It's okey to celebrate someones death but not celebrate a person getting fired cause she's a woman? That's what i'm getting from the people defending JP.

 

Of course, it's in bad taste. But I sure as hell won't judge a person who faces abuse for being glad an abusive person isn't around anymore.

[Nagi.8941]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > Would you cuss them out?

> >

> > Would your boss be ok with that?

>

> I would tell them to get lost.

>

> > @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > So... she started a conversation on a public forum, that she specifically left public of her own accord. She got a response from a member of the public forum, who was able to see it because she specifically left the post public. But because the post slightly disagreed, it’s covert sexism?

> >

> > I just learned that I might be the most oppressed person in history based on this new information.

>

> How did she start a conversation? She posted a thread of information for people to read. Again, nowhere did she ask for opinions or critique.

>

> It's the fact that he felt entitled enough to disregard her lengthy essay in what essentially boils down to a "well actually", no matter how well articulated it may have been, and expect to be met with enthusiasm.

> He was just the one who got the stone rolling though. The toxic mess that ensued afterwards is mostly thanks to the "community" O'Brien seems to love so much that he willingly throws valued employees under the bus.

 

At this point, it’s starting to feel like you are stretching so far that Elastigirl would be jealous.

 

I’m impressed you’re sticking to your guns though. Keep doing you, guy.