ZhouX.8742 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > > > And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. > > > > Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). > > > > No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. > > > > In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. > > > > I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. > > Few people ran it in spvp because it was barely known. Now more people run it, and you will see even more repeating what others do. In wvw, the one shot has been a thing since launch of the last expansion. I see them every single day. It's not a new thing, lol it's been know since forever, inside and outside of PvP ... People don't run it because it's fun for roughly 3 matches then once you've one shotted a handful of people after carefully preparing everything a few times and then dying 20x it gets old because you have literally no survivability. So yea, fun for a few matches, but then it's just boring. But in no way is this build new, it has been out for a very long time like you said even since PoF came out with Gazelle variants... And yes, you'd see it in WvW of course because you can gear up 10x over the stats that you can get in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > > > > > And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. > > > > > > Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). > > > > > > No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. > > > > > > In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. > > > > > > I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. > > > > Few people ran it in spvp because it was barely known. Now more people run it, and you will see even more repeating what others do. In wvw, the one shot has been a thing since launch of the last expansion. I see them every single day. > > It's not a new thing, lol it's been know since forever, inside and outside of PvP ... People don't run it because it's fun for roughly 3 matches then once you've one shotted a handful of people after carefully preparing everything a few times and then dying 20x it gets old because you have literally no survivability. So yea, fun for a few matches, but then it's just boring. > > But in no way is this build new, it has been out for a very long time like you said even since PoF came out with Gazelle variants... And yes, you'd see it in WvW of course because you can gear up 10x over the stats that you can get in PvP. It's actually been out as far back as HoT and the smokescale f2 (and maybe even further back, you'd have to ask Harsh Master how long he's been doing it). Harsh Master has done this for years, I've said many times lol (with maul, before). The one shot from stealth is very old and has been done on many classes. There is a discussion to be had on whether or not this current iteration on soulbeast is either bugged or overtuned, however the conversation has just devolved into people complaining about KO bursts from stealth which IMO are kind of a fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me situation lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > EVERY class has the ability to deal the type of damage that Soulbeast is dealing if it runs a glass cannon DPS component, outside of the freakish 60k strikes that are listed in this thread, which are a complete anomaly and players need shouldn't be proposing that these numbers are normal. > > > > > > Even given the above statement, I'll say that Soulbeast should receive these alterations ASAP: > > > * Worldy Impact should have its cast time reverted back to 1s. It doesn't need a damage nerf because WI isn't the heart of the problem here. > > > * Sic'Em should be reduced to 20% to 30% enhancement while merged. 40% is too much. Still not the heart of the problem though. > > > * The heart of the problem is Marksmanship with the traits "Moment of Clarity" & "Remorseless", and then Greatsword Maul being able to stack "Attack of Opportunity" buff with MoC and Remorseless. When all of these add together, that is +100% damage modifier. <- That is the heart of the problem. Without those damage modifiers, Worldy Impact is just a Gravedigger. Moment of clarity should be nerfed from +50% to +25%. Remorseless should be nerfed from +25% to +15%. Attack of Opportunity should be nerfed from +25% to +15% and be made so that the buff doesn't activate unless the Ranger hits a target. "This would mean one shot builds cannot prime it while stealthed." > > > > > > The above changes would be adequate nerfs to calm down the one shot builds, but allow other Soulbeast specs to remain relatively unchanged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > plz don't propose nerf suggestions until its been cleared that its not a bug(by devs)... else, soulbeast would underperform against other classes and that's too sad... if it hits 60k, devs please recreate it, analyze the bug, fix it... don't jump into conclusions that soulbeast needs nerfing... > > > > and atack of opportunity and remorseless is useless unless the target is hit already and disabled... won't work on healthy targets... if it does, its a bug and it needs fixing, else, leave it > > I'm a ranger main btw. whoops … sorry... but sickem didn't do 40% as claimed by the description... its a lame except for the revealed to escape thief stealth and give pet some movement speed and attack... and moment of clarity and remorseless are all pulled with successive attacks or synergistic with team play.. if team immobilized an enemy, you get 50% chance on that target... and nvm... you guys are far more experienced that I am... let the devs look into it... but the only fear is they could nerf if right to the ground and i'd be sad... :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > > > > > And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. > > > > > > Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). > > > > > > No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. > > > > > > In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. > > > > > > I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. > > > > Few people ran it in spvp because it was barely known. Now more people run it, and you will see even more repeating what others do. In wvw, the one shot has been a thing since launch of the last expansion. I see them every single day. > > It's not a new thing, lol it's been know since forever, inside and outside of PvP ... People don't run it because it's fun for roughly 3 matches then once you've one shotted a handful of people after carefully preparing everything a few times and then dying 20x it gets old because you have literally no survivability. So yea, fun for a few matches, but then it's just boring. > > But in no way is this build new, it has been out for a very long time like you said even since PoF came out with Gazelle variants... And yes, you'd see it in WvW of course because you can gear up 10x over the stats that you can get in PvP. I ran the gazelle variant a bunch. Running the poor survival/one shot capable build gets old, yea, but you do not need to deal 45k WI and 50k Rapidfire. You can easily run (in wvw. i do not know how it would be in spvp) the 10-15k WI and 30k Rapidfire with a ton of sustain from blocks, evades, mobility, cc, great condi management and stealth. With this much damage and range, its extremely hard to deal against. I'd like to see the best pvp'er from anet do a 1v1 against a decent SB. I feel like they do not know insane SB build(s) are. Lots of people that do nothing else but spvp do not understand how broken it can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said: > > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > By the way I think I confirmed the 60k WI to be a bug in the logs; my apologies, I couldn't find it in my logs by the time the guy in game messaged me, and I told him to SS it on his end but he didn't, so you'll just have to trust me > > > > Today I wordly impacted a rev on khylo and one shot him for 30k, I saw the 30k pop up over his head (was too late to check in the logs by the time he complained) > > > > He messaged me saying how the heck did I hit him for 60k. I told him to SS it and explained I did 30k on my end, but he just said "30k or 60k doesn't matter still ridiculous" > > > > Apologies for no proof, but I think it's a log bug > > and that rev might've had a glassy build himself and no protection or aegis.. and polly vulnerability so 30k is acceptable In what world is 30k in a single skill acceptable? No matter the sacrifice to get it. This is like saying hammer guards mighty blow should hit for 20k because we dedicate more than two trait lines in order to get it, while maxing out (literally) ferocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson.2403 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I made a thread about this before this last patch. Look at my original post with the screen shots that i made: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39896/ranger-one-shot/p1 Both of his attacks were done from stealth with no warning or pre spike cc. I like the one shot stuff though no matter what class/build it is. One of the things that i really like bout this game is the amount of freedom in creating builds. One shot builds definitely have weaknesses to them so i think this ranger one shot is a healthy risk/reward and doesn't need a nerf. I also one shotting him and won both games that these screenshots were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know wtf they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdavis.8501 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 [https://imgur.com/a/oKngHAK](https://imgur.com/a/oKngHAK "https://imgur.com/a/oKngHAK") That dude is either exploiting or hacking i have a screen shot of that same person who 1 shot me as well. This dude deserves to be removed from game tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The damage isn't exploited or hacked. He's just activating every single possible damage modifier before using WI, on a maximum damage PvE'ish Soulbeast spec. The culprits leading to this insane damage modification: 1) Moment of Clarity 2) Remorseless 3) Attack of Opportunity 4) Sic'Em = +140% damage. Without that ultra stack of damage modification, WI is just a Gravedigger swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Yeah, even as an advocate of this one shot playstyle as part of a fun game environment, Sic'em should probably be gutted and the two attack of opportunity buffs should NOT be stackable; that might somewhat normalize things, but the build would still be gloriously cheesy one-shot and fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > Yeah, even as an advocate of this one shot playstyle as part of a fun game environment, Sic'em should probably be gutted and the two attack of opportunity buffs should NOT be stackable; that might somewhat normalize things, but the build would still be gloriously cheesy one-shot and fun These changes would also hurt core ranger. Bad ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > Yeah, even as an advocate of this one shot playstyle as part of a fun game environment, Sic'em should probably be gutted and the two attack of opportunity buffs should NOT be stackable; that might somewhat normalize things, but the build would still be gloriously cheesy one-shot and fun > > These changes would also hurt core ranger. Bad ideas. Uh...care to elaborate on that. . .? I specifically chose those two because they would NOT affect core ranger or druid, unless there is some core ranger/druid running around trying to one shot people with a deer or tiger or something lol A core ranger can't stack the two attack of opportunity buffs; only a soulbeast can. A core ranger doesn't get sic'em's modifier on himself; only a soulbeast can. I propose gutting Sic'em damage modifier to 25%. Also replace self-buffed attack of opportunity (25%) with moment of clarity's (50%) upon interrupt, preventing the two from stacking. That would mean a max modifier of 100% with rupt, instead of the current 140%. Majority of bursts wouldn't have the rupt, so the common modifier would be 75% (normal AoO instead of MoC's AoO) That's a start; then we can look into not letting maul buff without landing the blow on a target. To clarify, NONE of these changes affect druid or core. (unless again you're trying to one shot people with pets, which, sad day for you I guess if you're trying to do that lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. > > Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. I don't know if you're aware, but im talking about wvw, not spvp. Deleting a ranger in spvp is nowhere near difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > > > > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > > > > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. > > > > Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. > > I don't know if you're aware, but im talking about wvw, not spvp. Deleting a ranger in spvp is nowhere near difficult. I don't know if you're aware, but this is the PvP Subforum :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > > > > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > > > > > > > And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. > > > > > > > > Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). > > > > > > > > No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. > > > > > > > > In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. > > > > > > > > I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. > > > > > > Few people ran it in spvp because it was barely known. Now more people run it, and you will see even more repeating what others do. In wvw, the one shot has been a thing since launch of the last expansion. I see them every single day. > > > > It's not a new thing, lol it's been know since forever, inside and outside of PvP ... People don't run it because it's fun for roughly 3 matches then once you've one shotted a handful of people after carefully preparing everything a few times and then dying 20x it gets old because you have literally no survivability. So yea, fun for a few matches, but then it's just boring. > > > > But in no way is this build new, it has been out for a very long time like you said even since PoF came out with Gazelle variants... And yes, you'd see it in WvW of course because you can gear up 10x over the stats that you can get in PvP. > > I ran the gazelle variant a bunch. Running the poor survival/one shot capable build gets old, yea, but you do not need to deal 45k WI and 50k Rapidfire. You can easily run (in wvw. i do not know how it would be in spvp) the 10-15k WI and 30k Rapidfire with a ton of sustain from blocks, evades, mobility, cc, great condi management and stealth. With this much damage and range, its extremely hard to deal against. > > I'd like to see the best pvp'er from anet do a 1v1 against a decent SB. I feel like they do not know insane SB build(s) are. > > Lots of people that do nothing else but spvp do not understand how broken it can be. You need marksmanship to break the damage you're referring to or you won't have the scaling percentages. If you don't run marksmanship, I can see you getting those defensives, obviously with 2 defensive trait lines in WS,NM.. Since you need MM, you are now slotting 2 necessary build lines in soulbeast and mm and forced to take specific utilities as well and 1 potential survival skill to pair with WS because you NEED stone , since you need RaO it's a shout, so you only get a potential 2 condi removals from your kit in the heal and LR (i think its obvious you kind of need it for gap creation and defensive utility in stun break and vigor creation for dodges), this means you have already lost most of your survivability and are forced to run WS to get the condi removal and mobility Cd decreases for LR. The upside though is that you will have decent defensives against pure power, but let's be honest... It just takes 1 condi class to drop you and become a liability, which then means you would need a support to aoe clear for you. So basically, with that said if you're running that, just run a condi burst build and the ranger will be easily destroyed since it couldn't play as a main group point defender anyway (other much better classes, burst guardian, etc) and would absolutely need aoe clears since you lack condi removal in your kit with the above build mentioned. If they are all power you would sustain a little more though due to stone signet procs and utility which makes it ultimately super situational which WOULD be fine buttttttttt **let's keep in mind how the burst works on the build in question here, it takes a considerable amount of prep-time and you need to tie all of those skills into one to create the high damage numbers, otherwise it won't work.** This means you'll basically sit on the point doing miniscule damage awaiting cooldowns on your percentage modifier preps before you can unleash more damage while other classes have much higher consistent damage over time which is better by far, all the while knowing that ranger simply isn't a main point holder or group fighter at all. I mean not only are you needed to adopt a role you're not natural with, but you're also just kind of sitting there taking damage and not a threat until your modifier cooldowns come off. That means you're forced to roam since druid isn't an option for side nodes anymore (mirage outclasses it in every way possible and has better 1v2 prowess) , holo roams this better in every way , especially if you sacrifice all defensives to be able to 1 shot people which is the only thing that makes that build fun for a little bit of time. Idk, you can go semi-burst as ranger and get more survivability options, but then you kind of have to admit that you're basically just turning this thread into a "ranger is superior even without 1 shot build and needs to be nerfed" which is pretty hypothetical with no true evidence to back it up at this point the thread is entirely useless because what you're now referring to is that it is no longer a 1shot build that's strong, it's just a zerker-esque build with a few defensives that has absolutely no role since holo is better at that role.. Doesn't make much sense honestly.. If you're trying to say that soulbeast is the best 1v1 class in PvP or WvW , then mirage says hello... It outplays soulbeast as a side node bunker and fulfills that role much better, which in turn makes it essentially a better 1v1 / 1v2er... Also, this isn't WvW so any conversation regarding WvW balance and PvP balance should be kept separate considering there are skill splits with ranger in WvW/PvP respectively. This is the PvP sub-forum, if you need to voice your opinions on WvW's variant of ranger builds, you can feel free to do so there but this isn't the outlet for that. Then finally, among all of those sacrifices for more defensives in anything outside of a 1shot build you then have to ask the 2nd question: **Why not just go holo?** I mean, let's be honest, if you need to do great damage and have more outplay potential and also more defensives and also have better roaming mobility and also more importantly, massively more cleave potential then just go holo.. It outperforms everything at that very point that a ranger needs to sacrifice 40-50% of dmg to get a few survivability options as a roaming skirmisher. Sorry, ranger is just not in a great spot at the moment no matter how much this gets spun... Holo is just a better option overall for a role that ranger could even be great at, which is a roaming skirmisher. This is with or without a "1 shot build" This is why if you nerf the 1shot build, it provides literally nothing of value for the ranger, and it doesn't really hurt the ranger as most don't even use it. The only potential thing that could happen here is nerfing stuff for MM , which is probably what this thread will do, which in turn will not just hurt Soulbeast, but it will hurt any power ranger build that is created. I would be fine, as many others would be fine with sacrificing damage for more utility and options elsewhere mostly in the form of just having good build viability and not being forced into 2 specific trait lines always, but simply just nerfing something in a build that isn't even remotely close to meta because a few people run it very randomly in sPvP matches doesn't constitute in my opinion a grounds for being nerfed, but again, if it does , it wouldn't matter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 If it's so great, you all can run it. Everyone with the salty tears should go see how well you can pull off the combo Then go try it in a game. But first, how about you watch the rest of the clip and see how well that Ranger did the rest of the match. A ranger, I might add, that has been running one shot type builds for a VERY long time. Please, go try it out. Let's see how many games you win. Risk and Reward. It's been like this since day one. Lot of risk = lot of reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. > > Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. Mesmers are the easiest for me to take down on Soulbeast.... It's simple actually, Soulbeast Merge for Unstoppable onions, Sic em then robin hood that mes down with rapid fire... Haven't seen many survive that alone and if they do, "twang twang twang" and they die from the last few AA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > > > > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > > > > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. > > > > Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. > > Mesmers are the easiest for me to take down on Soulbeast.... > > It's simple actually, Soulbeast Merge for Unstoppable onions, Sic em then robin hood that mes down with rapid fire... Haven't seen many survive that alone and if they do, "twang twang twang" and they die from the last few AA's. Ah yes, the good ol "unstoppable onions + robin hood) combo. Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > Soulbeast is absolutely insane in 1v1's in wvw (not the one shot variant, but a high sustain one with Sic Em). I would go as far as saying this is the strongest 1v1 build of any build this game has ever seen. In spvp, its not as broken cuz you can LoS, but in wvw, its stupid. Classes such as necro wouldn't even have 0.00000000001% of winning against a decent Soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a Mirage. I still don't have problems with rangers and SBs. The best they can do is survive really long before they finally run out of CDs and they get blown up. I see no issues there. > > > > > > > > Oh you have not seen what i have seen. Im not talking about your average LB spammer, im talking about those who know kitten they're doing. You try to bomb them in melee range you better watch out for the 10k mauls, cc and Worldly Impact almost one shotting (or one shotting if you don't have protection/running glacier build). You try to do it at range, and its stealth spam/reposition to the other side of the map, spam Rapidfire for 15k+++ while you have Sic Em and cannot stealth. Its a nightmare that i have not seen in this game since 2012. > > > > > > > > Soulbeasts that die in one v ones do not reposition themselves from stealth, they simply spam and don't take the advantage of their 1800 range. Those who do, its difficult on mirage, i don't even know how most other classes would be even be able to do anything against it, and that includes even Spellbreaker, which is really good for 1v1's. > > > > > > Eeerm. I play vs top 100 Rangers every day. If you’re a Mes and you’re losing to a ranger, you’re doing it wrong. > > > > Mesmers are the easiest for me to take down on Soulbeast.... > > > > It's simple actually, Soulbeast Merge for Unstoppable onions, Sic em then robin hood that mes down with rapid fire... Haven't seen many survive that alone and if they do, "twang twang twang" and they die from the last few AA's. > > Ah yes, the good ol "unstoppable onions + robin hood) combo. Classic. I must be the only one to refer to unstoppable union as unstoppable onions... Ya know just like Shrek, a Soulbeast has layers (kinda does if you think about pet merging) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Can anyone in this thread be able to pull off that WI yet???? And consistently??? If not, it's an unique skill that ranger has... And perfect understanding of class mechanics... Even if I get in a fight with/against him in spvp, I respect him ..... If this stunt can be pulled so easily with just clickity click, then let the devs deal with it in balance patches... But hope people doesn't ditch ranger soulbeast class after the balance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceces.9368 Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said: > Can anyone in this thread be able to pull off that WI yet???? And consistently??? If not, it's an unique skill that ranger has... And perfect understanding of class mechanics... Even if I get in a fight with/against him in spvp, I respect him ..... If this stunt can be pulled so easily with just clickity click, then let the devs deal with it in balance patches... But hope people doesn't ditch ranger soulbeast class after the balance... Not consistently, any amount of AoE just kills you and we still don't know how he did the 60,000 hit. The 30,000 seems to be normal and fine according to most, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Anet balances around wvw zeging and pve, then patches their balance for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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