shadowpass.4236 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. Neither are one shot soulbeasts. Mantra mesmer has the same role but does a better job at it. I don't really see why people are complaining. Fighting against a soulbeast running this build is extremely easy once you know they're using it. It's basically a free win in ranked because competent players will farm them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > EVERY class has the ability to deal the type of damage that Soulbeast is dealing if it runs a glass cannon DPS component, outside of the freakish 60k strikes that are listed in this thread, which are a complete anomaly and players need shouldn't be proposing that these numbers are normal. > > Even given the above statement, I'll say that Soulbeast should receive these alterations ASAP: > * Worldy Impact should have its cast time reverted back to 1s. It doesn't need a damage nerf because WI isn't the heart of the problem here. > * Sic'Em should be reduced to 20% to 30% enhancement while merged. 40% is too much. Still not the heart of the problem though. > * The heart of the problem is Marksmanship with the traits "Moment of Clarity" & "Remorseless", and then Greatsword Maul being able to stack "Attack of Opportunity" buff with MoC and Remorseless. When all of these add together, that is +100% damage modifier. <- That is the heart of the problem. Without those damage modifiers, Worldy Impact is just a Gravedigger. Moment of clarity should be nerfed from +50% to +25%. Remorseless should be nerfed from +25% to +15%. Attack of Opportunity should be nerfed from +25% to +15% and be made so that the buff doesn't activate unless the Ranger hits a target. "This would mean one shot builds cannot prime it while stealthed." > > The above changes would be adequate nerfs to calm down the one shot builds, but allow other Soulbeast specs to remain relatively unchanged. > > > I think nerfing the modifiers and not letting Attack of Opportunity activate unless you actually hit a target with maul are all reasonable. Arguably WI doesn't need the cast time reverted since it's fairly easy to predict or react to even at 0.75s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > Neither are one shot soulbeasts. Mantra mesmer has the same role but does a better job at it. I don't really see why people are complaining. Fighting against a soulbeast running this build is extremely easy once you know they're using it. It's basically a free win in ranked because competent players will farm them. Do you expect competent players in every solo q? most certainly not. So you cannot rely on the competency of players you do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > I think I've figured out most of his traits and utilities. > > > > > > He is using WHaO, signet of the hunt, quickening zephyr, sic 'em, strength of the pack. > > > GS dagger/ dagger or warhorn (not sure) > > > MMS 3 ? 2 (possibly using signet trait) > > > BM 3 2 1 > > > SB 1 ? 3 > > > > > > Smokescale / Siamoth > > > > I can't blame you for not reading every reply on a 6 page thread, but this was answered near the end of page 5 By @"Ryan.9387" > > > > > > MM 322 > > BM x2x > > SB 123 > > > > GS (enhancement/x) / dagger warhorn(x/x) > > Berserker scholar > > Siamoth smokescale > > > > Heal as one, signet of the hunt, signet of the wild, sicem, optional elite. > > > > To stealth long cast gs3 into a wall with smokescale f2, follow up with dagger leap, wh5, dagger leap. Precasting siamoth f2 if you can to pick up and use on the approach. > > > > After a burst you can unmerge out of smokescale, then f2 (for field) into pet swap (blast) into the original combo. This gives you very very long stealth if you can be in combat. > > > > To stack might use heal as one before merging with your smokescale. That'll give 22 might or 25 if you rng plasma. > > > > To burst, buff to 25 might, use maul in open air (to get moment of clarity), then worldly impact or maul (choice). Use sicem and hunt right before the attack lands. > > > > I've landed 35k today using this. You could get way more damage attacking a target with 25 vuln while having Coliseum sword and kill buffs. > > > > You can't get more damage than this without outside help (ex if someone crippled target you could use the sigil for 5% more damage). > > > > Have fun playing around with this. Just note you have no condi clear, no stun break, and berserker amulet. For extra fun get a thief friend to stealth you in voice chat. > > Good explanation right here. Regardless of how bad or poor the build looks on paper, it is not ok for someone to be able to OHKO in a competitive game and especially not like this. Before someone brings up DJ as a counterargument, DJ cannot be used while in stealth, has a very loud and obvious sound effect and you will KNOW the DE is targeting you well-before DJ lands giving you time to plan and counterplay. On the other hand with WI, Enderz just described a method of oneshotting with WI out of stealth without even entering combat before-hand. DJ is now a stealth attack and has been since deadeye rework a month ago... it can ONLY be used from stealth... what? That said the DE will prolly kill you with triple shots out of stealth well before the DJ lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > > > Neither are one shot soulbeasts. Mantra mesmer has the same role but does a better job at it. I don't really see why people are complaining. Fighting against a soulbeast running this build is extremely easy once you know they're using it. It's basically a free win in ranked because competent players will farm them. > > Do you expect competent players in every solo q? most certainly not. So you cannot rely on the competency of players you do not know. I can't speak for others, but it's not an issue for me because *I* would be the one farming the soulbeast lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kageseigi.2150 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted **AS** a thief than any kind of mes build. FIFY ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > EVERY class has the ability to deal the type of damage that Soulbeast is dealing if it runs a glass cannon DPS component, outside of the freakish 60k strikes that are listed in this thread, which are a complete anomaly and players need shouldn't be proposing that these numbers are normal. > > Even given the above statement, I'll say that Soulbeast should receive these alterations ASAP: > * Worldy Impact should have its cast time reverted back to 1s. It doesn't need a damage nerf because WI isn't the heart of the problem here. > * Sic'Em should be reduced to 20% to 30% enhancement while merged. 40% is too much. Still not the heart of the problem though. > * The heart of the problem is Marksmanship with the traits "Moment of Clarity" & "Remorseless", and then Greatsword Maul being able to stack "Attack of Opportunity" buff with MoC and Remorseless. When all of these add together, that is +100% damage modifier. <- That is the heart of the problem. Without those damage modifiers, Worldy Impact is just a Gravedigger. Moment of clarity should be nerfed from +50% to +25%. Remorseless should be nerfed from +25% to +15%. Attack of Opportunity should be nerfed from +25% to +15% and be made so that the buff doesn't activate unless the Ranger hits a target. "This would mean one shot builds cannot prime it while stealthed." > > The above changes would be adequate nerfs to calm down the one shot builds, but allow other Soulbeast specs to remain relatively unchanged. > > > So basically nerf most of the things that don't affect your posted LB build right? *rolls eyes* Cheesy LB builds are just as cheesy as one shot builds... Those changes are too harsh. Just nerf Sic'em across the board to be 20% instead of 40% (for you and pet, to make noobs who get killed by pets happy) and make it so that Maul's Attack of Opportunity (25%) and Moment of Clarity's (50%) cannot stack. Upon interrupt, have the 50% replace the 25% instead of stacking. Find out what causes the 60k anomaly and fix it. I *could* accept not letting you buff with Maul's AOO unless ranger hits a target, that's fair; but do NOT touch Moment of clarity; it requires a rupt and should remain at 50% to be rewarding. Boom done. Toned down the build without completely destroying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Sojourner.4621" said: > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > I think I've figured out most of his traits and utilities. > > > > > > > > He is using WHaO, signet of the hunt, quickening zephyr, sic 'em, strength of the pack. > > > > GS dagger/ dagger or warhorn (not sure) > > > > MMS 3 ? 2 (possibly using signet trait) > > > > BM 3 2 1 > > > > SB 1 ? 3 > > > > > > > > Smokescale / Siamoth > > > > > > I can't blame you for not reading every reply on a 6 page thread, but this was answered near the end of page 5 By @"Ryan.9387" > > > > > > > > > MM 322 > > > BM x2x > > > SB 123 > > > > > > GS (enhancement/x) / dagger warhorn(x/x) > > > Berserker scholar > > > Siamoth smokescale > > > > > > Heal as one, signet of the hunt, signet of the wild, sicem, optional elite. > > > > > > To stealth long cast gs3 into a wall with smokescale f2, follow up with dagger leap, wh5, dagger leap. Precasting siamoth f2 if you can to pick up and use on the approach. > > > > > > After a burst you can unmerge out of smokescale, then f2 (for field) into pet swap (blast) into the original combo. This gives you very very long stealth if you can be in combat. > > > > > > To stack might use heal as one before merging with your smokescale. That'll give 22 might or 25 if you rng plasma. > > > > > > To burst, buff to 25 might, use maul in open air (to get moment of clarity), then worldly impact or maul (choice). Use sicem and hunt right before the attack lands. > > > > > > I've landed 35k today using this. You could get way more damage attacking a target with 25 vuln while having Coliseum sword and kill buffs. > > > > > > You can't get more damage than this without outside help (ex if someone crippled target you could use the sigil for 5% more damage). > > > > > > Have fun playing around with this. Just note you have no condi clear, no stun break, and berserker amulet. For extra fun get a thief friend to stealth you in voice chat. > > > > Good explanation right here. Regardless of how bad or poor the build looks on paper, it is not ok for someone to be able to OHKO in a competitive game and especially not like this. Before someone brings up DJ as a counterargument, DJ cannot be used while in stealth, has a very loud and obvious sound effect and you will KNOW the DE is targeting you well-before DJ lands giving you time to plan and counterplay. On the other hand with WI, Enderz just described a method of oneshotting with WI out of stealth without even entering combat before-hand. > > DJ is now a stealth attack and has been since deadeye rework a month ago... it can ONLY be used from stealth... what? That said the DE will prolly kill you with triple shots out of stealth well before the DJ lands. It's more predictable now though. It can only be used from stealth (so if you're marked and the DE stealths you can reasonably predict it). Also it reveals the DE upon use, there is a prominent red laser line and a loud droning noise all accompanying the skill. That's a lot of tells, plus the DE must build up malice on the marked target, then their marked target would have to heal to full, then the DE would use DJ on their marked target for it to be a 1 shot KO. It's all highly conditional with a complex setup and has ample counterplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poledra Val.1490 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Its clear that Ranger as a whole is overperforming, you see on average 3-4 rangers per match now with the "gimmicky" builds in play. Im not suggesting Ranger should be nerfed to the ground but obviously its very easy to use for anyone to pick up and play with little to no effort you can farm the crap out of people. In truth it is a very easy class to play now in PvP. As mentioned some slight nerfs to specific skills/traits will bring this class back to balance and still be relevant without being able to blow up players from silly distances or even short ones aka (World Impact) setup etc. Watching Phantarans stream a week or so ago were he got one shot by one Ranger with World Impact several times in a match....this is counterproductive and no build or skill should be able to one shot you, regardless of preparation. It goes against the spirit of what PvP should be, competitive and at the very least as balanced as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > @"Sojourner.4621" said: > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > I think I've figured out most of his traits and utilities. > > > > > > > > > > He is using WHaO, signet of the hunt, quickening zephyr, sic 'em, strength of the pack. > > > > > GS dagger/ dagger or warhorn (not sure) > > > > > MMS 3 ? 2 (possibly using signet trait) > > > > > BM 3 2 1 > > > > > SB 1 ? 3 > > > > > > > > > > Smokescale / Siamoth > > > > > > > > I can't blame you for not reading every reply on a 6 page thread, but this was answered near the end of page 5 By @"Ryan.9387" > > > > > > > > > > > > MM 322 > > > > BM x2x > > > > SB 123 > > > > > > > > GS (enhancement/x) / dagger warhorn(x/x) > > > > Berserker scholar > > > > Siamoth smokescale > > > > > > > > Heal as one, signet of the hunt, signet of the wild, sicem, optional elite. > > > > > > > > To stealth long cast gs3 into a wall with smokescale f2, follow up with dagger leap, wh5, dagger leap. Precasting siamoth f2 if you can to pick up and use on the approach. > > > > > > > > After a burst you can unmerge out of smokescale, then f2 (for field) into pet swap (blast) into the original combo. This gives you very very long stealth if you can be in combat. > > > > > > > > To stack might use heal as one before merging with your smokescale. That'll give 22 might or 25 if you rng plasma. > > > > > > > > To burst, buff to 25 might, use maul in open air (to get moment of clarity), then worldly impact or maul (choice). Use sicem and hunt right before the attack lands. > > > > > > > > I've landed 35k today using this. You could get way more damage attacking a target with 25 vuln while having Coliseum sword and kill buffs. > > > > > > > > You can't get more damage than this without outside help (ex if someone crippled target you could use the sigil for 5% more damage). > > > > > > > > Have fun playing around with this. Just note you have no condi clear, no stun break, and berserker amulet. For extra fun get a thief friend to stealth you in voice chat. > > > > > > Good explanation right here. Regardless of how bad or poor the build looks on paper, it is not ok for someone to be able to OHKO in a competitive game and especially not like this. Before someone brings up DJ as a counterargument, DJ cannot be used while in stealth, has a very loud and obvious sound effect and you will KNOW the DE is targeting you well-before DJ lands giving you time to plan and counterplay. On the other hand with WI, Enderz just described a method of oneshotting with WI out of stealth without even entering combat before-hand. > > > > DJ is now a stealth attack and has been since deadeye rework a month ago... it can ONLY be used from stealth... what? That said the DE will prolly kill you with triple shots out of stealth well before the DJ lands. > > It's more predictable now though. It can only be used from stealth (so if you're marked and the DE stealths you can reasonably predict it). Also it reveals the DE upon use, there is a prominent red laser line and a loud droning noise all accompanying the skill. That's a lot of tells, plus the DE must build up malice on the marked target, then their marked target would have to heal to full, then the DE would use DJ on their marked target for it to be a 1 shot KO. It's all highly conditional with a complex setup and has ample counterplay. Hmm. Ample counterplay to a 8-18k hitting projectile would definitely include aegis/blocks, reflects, projectile destruction. Ample isn't the word. If you have dodges left you can reactivity counter it if you're paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 By the way I think I confirmed the 60k WI to be a bug in the logs; my apologies, I couldn't find it in my logs by the time the guy in game messaged me, and I told him to SS it on his end but he didn't, so you'll just have to trust me Today I wordly impacted a rev on khylo and one shot him for 30k, I saw the 30k pop up over his head (was too late to check in the logs by the time he complained) He messaged me saying how the heck did I hit him for 60k. I told him to SS it and explained I did 30k on my end, but he just said "30k or 60k doesn't matter still ridiculous" Apologies for no proof, but I think it's a log bug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Only I think regardless of being 60k or 30... Oneshotting ppl out of nowhere that have full hp on demo engi/protection up in 1 single hit coming from very long stealth shouldnt be a thing ,right ? Everyone who say its ez to outplay especially wnen u know that coming would be enough to look at phantaram stream , he knew its coming and did his best to avoid it, still rip xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > Only I think regardless of being 60k or 30... Oneshotting ppl out of nowhere that have full hp on demo engi/protection up in 1 single hit coming from very long stealth shouldnt be a thing ,right ? > Everyone who say its ez to outplay especially wnen u know that coming would be enough to look at phantaram stream , he knew its coming and did his best to avoid it, still rip xD Uh, no, lol Phantaram thought the Soulbeast was chasing him in stealth so he random dodged around and popped CDs when the ranger was actually by the blue door stealthing up. Phanta headed back to the node with his dodges/cds gone and the ranger caught up easily and blammed him. That's not the ranger's fault, it's Phanta's for not noticing the ranger stealthing by the door lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > Only I think regardless of being 60k or 30... Oneshotting ppl out of nowhere that have full hp on demo engi/protection up in 1 single hit coming from very long stealth shouldnt be a thing ,right ? > > Everyone who say its ez to outplay especially wnen u know that coming would be enough to look at phantaram stream , he knew its coming and did his best to avoid it, still rip xD > > Uh, no, lol Phantaram thought the Soulbeast was chasing him in stealth so he random dodged around and popped CDs when the ranger was actually by the blue door stealthing up. Phanta headed back to the node with his dodges/cds gone and the ranger caught up easily and blammed him. That's not the ranger's fault, it's Phanta's for not noticing the ranger stealthing by the door lol. What you even talking about? Phanta knew he would be about to get oneshot ,tried to avoid it and died ... wat... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > @"Sojourner.4621" said: > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > I think I've figured out most of his traits and utilities. > > > > > > > > > > He is using WHaO, signet of the hunt, quickening zephyr, sic 'em, strength of the pack. > > > > > GS dagger/ dagger or warhorn (not sure) > > > > > MMS 3 ? 2 (possibly using signet trait) > > > > > BM 3 2 1 > > > > > SB 1 ? 3 > > > > > > > > > > Smokescale / Siamoth > > > > > > > > I can't blame you for not reading every reply on a 6 page thread, but this was answered near the end of page 5 By @"Ryan.9387" > > > > > > > > > > > > MM 322 > > > > BM x2x > > > > SB 123 > > > > > > > > GS (enhancement/x) / dagger warhorn(x/x) > > > > Berserker scholar > > > > Siamoth smokescale > > > > > > > > Heal as one, signet of the hunt, signet of the wild, sicem, optional elite. > > > > > > > > To stealth long cast gs3 into a wall with smokescale f2, follow up with dagger leap, wh5, dagger leap. Precasting siamoth f2 if you can to pick up and use on the approach. > > > > > > > > After a burst you can unmerge out of smokescale, then f2 (for field) into pet swap (blast) into the original combo. This gives you very very long stealth if you can be in combat. > > > > > > > > To stack might use heal as one before merging with your smokescale. That'll give 22 might or 25 if you rng plasma. > > > > > > > > To burst, buff to 25 might, use maul in open air (to get moment of clarity), then worldly impact or maul (choice). Use sicem and hunt right before the attack lands. > > > > > > > > I've landed 35k today using this. You could get way more damage attacking a target with 25 vuln while having Coliseum sword and kill buffs. > > > > > > > > You can't get more damage than this without outside help (ex if someone crippled target you could use the sigil for 5% more damage). > > > > > > > > Have fun playing around with this. Just note you have no condi clear, no stun break, and berserker amulet. For extra fun get a thief friend to stealth you in voice chat. > > > > > > Good explanation right here. Regardless of how bad or poor the build looks on paper, it is not ok for someone to be able to OHKO in a competitive game and especially not like this. Before someone brings up DJ as a counterargument, DJ cannot be used while in stealth, has a very loud and obvious sound effect and you will KNOW the DE is targeting you well-before DJ lands giving you time to plan and counterplay. On the other hand with WI, Enderz just described a method of oneshotting with WI out of stealth without even entering combat before-hand. > > > > DJ is now a stealth attack and has been since deadeye rework a month ago... it can ONLY be used from stealth... what? That said the DE will prolly kill you with triple shots out of stealth well before the DJ lands. > > It's more predictable now though. It can only be used from stealth (so if you're marked and the DE stealths you can reasonably predict it). Also it reveals the DE upon use, there is a prominent red laser line and a loud droning noise all accompanying the skill. That's a lot of tells, plus the DE must build up malice on the marked target, then their marked target would have to heal to full, then the DE would use DJ on their marked target for it to be a 1 shot KO. It's all highly conditional with a complex setup and has ample counterplay. I have had some success landing DJ on my deadeye, and I do it by... only swapping to my rifle AFTER the malice is built and I am in stealth. Why do it that way? Because tapping a war with weak-ish attacks a few times can cause them to become overconfident, and a 30k+ DJ can bypass things like Defy Pain auto-triggering. That and it IS fairly satisfying one-shotting someone after setting them up to believe you have no way of killing them... it's admittedly pretty niche, though. It's much easier to camp rifle and trip shot people to death. I almost exclusively use this strategy to bypass low-HP procs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > Only I think regardless of being 60k or 30... Oneshotting ppl out of nowhere that have full hp on demo engi/protection up in 1 single hit coming from very long stealth shouldnt be a thing ,right ? > > > Everyone who say its ez to outplay especially wnen u know that coming would be enough to look at phantaram stream , he knew its coming and did his best to avoid it, still rip xD > > > > Uh, no, lol Phantaram thought the Soulbeast was chasing him in stealth so he random dodged around and popped CDs when the ranger was actually by the blue door stealthing up. Phanta headed back to the node with his dodges/cds gone and the ranger caught up easily and blammed him. That's not the ranger's fault, it's Phanta's for not noticing the ranger stealthing by the door lol. > > What you even talking about? Phanta knew he would be about to get oneshot ,tried to avoid it and died ... wat... ? Dont even bother. This always happen with people defending broken mechanics or builds. They say its a noob stomper. Then when an actual well known good player gets owned. Some random player on the internet treats phantaram like some noob. The balance and powercreep is both an community and dev problem. Its all bigger part of things getting dumbed down. Not even dark souls was save from it. Cuz hosts got thier feelings hurt getting killed by invaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEETLEjay.2459 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I was 1 shot in a match on my scrapper a few times by a ranger, but I just took it as me being bad since I'm trying to get used to a whole new keybinding system and keyboard due to a few keys on my laptop not working. I did think it was weird that even with the paladin amulet, protection, and the bulwark gyro I was still being 1-shot though. (2-shot if you include downed state. One to get me down, the other to finish me with Maul. The ranger had quickness so it took all of about half a second altogether. xD) It's not so much of a problem on my deadeye though. It's avoidable, but makes sustain builds kind of obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > Only I think regardless of being 60k or 30... Oneshotting ppl out of nowhere that have full hp on demo engi/protection up in 1 single hit coming from very long stealth shouldnt be a thing ,right ? > > > > Everyone who say its ez to outplay especially wnen u know that coming would be enough to look at phantaram stream , he knew its coming and did his best to avoid it, still rip xD > > > > > > Uh, no, lol Phantaram thought the Soulbeast was chasing him in stealth so he random dodged around and popped CDs when the ranger was actually by the blue door stealthing up. Phanta headed back to the node with his dodges/cds gone and the ranger caught up easily and blammed him. That's not the ranger's fault, it's Phanta's for not noticing the ranger stealthing by the door lol. > > > > What you even talking about? Phanta knew he would be about to get oneshot ,tried to avoid it and died ... wat... ? > > Dont even bother. This always happen with people defending broken mechanics or builds. They say its a noob stomper. Then when an actual well known good player gets owned. Some random player on the internet treats phantaram like some noob. > > The balance and powercreep is both an community and dev problem. Its all bigger part of things getting dumbed down. Not even dark souls was save from it. Cuz hosts got thier feelings hurt getting killed by invaders. Um, at what point did I call Phantaram a noob? I said he didn't see where the ranger stealthed up by the blue door and so he wasted his CDs/dodges ...Did you even watch the vid posted of him on this thread? Even the best players are allowed to miss things like that..doesn't make him a noob. Had phanta noticed where the ranger had been stealthing up, I'm sure he would have easily avoided the WI (actually he was hit with maul-->smoke assault---> and dodge WI, maul is a bit easier to land than WI) as all you need to do is walk away from it for it to miss. If you are in combat and slower, and the ranger uses QZ on you, then you might need to use predictive CDs and dodging. But usually this wombo combo comes from out of combat; just be aware of the ranger's presence and you'll be fine. People have been complaining about this since the beginning of the game when Mesmers and Thieves and do this from stealth. Good people learn quickly how easy it is to erase these meme builds. Bad players cry on the forums about dying to them lol. Now if you want to have an intelligent conversation about whether or not the damage is too high, then that's fine. I usually hit 20k - 30k with a fully buffed WI, sometimes lower and sometimes a bit higher depending on buffs/class/ammy of enemy. I don't play the one shot counterpart builds of Mesmer or Thief, but I'd imagine that they get similar numbers. If I'm wrong, and worldly impact is doing much more than the norm of one shot burst builds, then we can start toning it down with a gut to sic'em. Then continue on if need be. But I have a feeling the ones crying are not crying about the numbers, they are crying because they got insta gibbed from stealth. Deal with it, period; it isn't going away and you need to get better at the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Velimere.7685" said: >  >  > Are these numbers normal? The Soulbeast in my game on the enemy team was mowing down everyone and winning 1v3s. cmon.... youre a thief obviouslyyou know how one hit KO worked for you DE guys... and the ranger adapted to this unfair pvp balancing and he decided to sacrifice his toughness, vitality and other survivability to win matches for his team... and yet you hope to post these images(might've been altered who knows) and cry and sink the forum in your tears and force the anet devs to nerf soulbeast and rangers once more???? soooo not happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > EVERY class has the ability to deal the type of damage that Soulbeast is dealing if it runs a glass cannon DPS component, outside of the freakish 60k strikes that are listed in this thread, which are a complete anomaly and players need shouldn't be proposing that these numbers are normal. > > Even given the above statement, I'll say that Soulbeast should receive these alterations ASAP: > * Worldy Impact should have its cast time reverted back to 1s. It doesn't need a damage nerf because WI isn't the heart of the problem here. > * Sic'Em should be reduced to 20% to 30% enhancement while merged. 40% is too much. Still not the heart of the problem though. > * The heart of the problem is Marksmanship with the traits "Moment of Clarity" & "Remorseless", and then Greatsword Maul being able to stack "Attack of Opportunity" buff with MoC and Remorseless. When all of these add together, that is +100% damage modifier. <- That is the heart of the problem. Without those damage modifiers, Worldy Impact is just a Gravedigger. Moment of clarity should be nerfed from +50% to +25%. Remorseless should be nerfed from +25% to +15%. Attack of Opportunity should be nerfed from +25% to +15% and be made so that the buff doesn't activate unless the Ranger hits a target. "This would mean one shot builds cannot prime it while stealthed." > > The above changes would be adequate nerfs to calm down the one shot builds, but allow other Soulbeast specs to remain relatively unchanged. > > > plz don't propose nerf suggestions until its been cleared that its not a bug(by devs)... else, soulbeast would underperform against other classes and that's too sad... if it hits 60k, devs please recreate it, analyze the bug, fix it... don't jump into conclusions that soulbeast needs nerfing... and atack of opportunity and remorseless is useless unless the target is hit already and disabled... won't work on healthy targets... if it does, its a bug and it needs fixing, else, leave it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > By the way I think I confirmed the 60k WI to be a bug in the logs; my apologies, I couldn't find it in my logs by the time the guy in game messaged me, and I told him to SS it on his end but he didn't, so you'll just have to trust me > > Today I wordly impacted a rev on khylo and one shot him for 30k, I saw the 30k pop up over his head (was too late to check in the logs by the time he complained) > > He messaged me saying how the heck did I hit him for 60k. I told him to SS it and explained I did 30k on my end, but he just said "30k or 60k doesn't matter still ridiculous" > > Apologies for no proof, but I think it's a log bug nice timing... and this thread gone on long enough to nerf rangers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > By the way I think I confirmed the 60k WI to be a bug in the logs; my apologies, I couldn't find it in my logs by the time the guy in game messaged me, and I told him to SS it on his end but he didn't, so you'll just have to trust me > > Today I wordly impacted a rev on khylo and one shot him for 30k, I saw the 30k pop up over his head (was too late to check in the logs by the time he complained) > > He messaged me saying how the heck did I hit him for 60k. I told him to SS it and explained I did 30k on my end, but he just said "30k or 60k doesn't matter still ridiculous" > > Apologies for no proof, but I think it's a log bug and that rev might've had a glassy build himself and no protection or aegis.. and polly vulnerability so 30k is acceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > EVERY class has the ability to deal the type of damage that Soulbeast is dealing if it runs a glass cannon DPS component, outside of the freakish 60k strikes that are listed in this thread, which are a complete anomaly and players need shouldn't be proposing that these numbers are normal. > > > > Even given the above statement, I'll say that Soulbeast should receive these alterations ASAP: > > * Worldy Impact should have its cast time reverted back to 1s. It doesn't need a damage nerf because WI isn't the heart of the problem here. > > * Sic'Em should be reduced to 20% to 30% enhancement while merged. 40% is too much. Still not the heart of the problem though. > > * The heart of the problem is Marksmanship with the traits "Moment of Clarity" & "Remorseless", and then Greatsword Maul being able to stack "Attack of Opportunity" buff with MoC and Remorseless. When all of these add together, that is +100% damage modifier. <- That is the heart of the problem. Without those damage modifiers, Worldy Impact is just a Gravedigger. Moment of clarity should be nerfed from +50% to +25%. Remorseless should be nerfed from +25% to +15%. Attack of Opportunity should be nerfed from +25% to +15% and be made so that the buff doesn't activate unless the Ranger hits a target. "This would mean one shot builds cannot prime it while stealthed." > > > > The above changes would be adequate nerfs to calm down the one shot builds, but allow other Soulbeast specs to remain relatively unchanged. > > > > > > > > plz don't propose nerf suggestions until its been cleared that its not a bug(by devs)... else, soulbeast would underperform against other classes and that's too sad... if it hits 60k, devs please recreate it, analyze the bug, fix it... don't jump into conclusions that soulbeast needs nerfing... > > and atack of opportunity and remorseless is useless unless the target is hit already and disabled... won't work on healthy targets... if it does, its a bug and it needs fixing, else, leave it I'm a ranger main btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > I fought Harsh Master once in a ranked match. > > > > > > > > > > What happened: > > > > > > > > > > 1. I stood on point and saw him run away and stealth. I thought he was moving to another point. Right after I stepped off the point I got knocked down and hit by Worldly Impact which 100-0'd me. I thought, "kitten I should've expected that. He did well but I'll get him next time." > > > > > 2. I was 1v1ing someone on mid. Saw HM coming and stealth. Readied myself. I ended up dodging the knockdown and WI but got hit by a maul which did enough damage to kill me because I was lower from the 1v1. I could've won the 1v2 but I messed up and recognized that. > > > > > 3. I killed him the rest of the match with no issue. > > > > > > > > > > Once you know what his build does, you shouldn't die unless you mess up. Outside of the kd, wi, maul, hilt bash, maul... he doesn't really have any survivability or huge burst. > > > > > > > > > > First, I learned what he does. Second, I messed up. Third (and everything after), he wasn't an issue. > > > > > > > > So that's fine to you? Why did they nerf the 100nades one shot that we used to have back in 2013 or whenever it was? Because it one shots, which is not good for any kind of pvp. If that HM guys is smart, he will stealth out of field of view, and good luck dodging when you don't even know the person is anywhere near you. One shot from stealth (or out of stealth) is complete BS, and the fact that we still have em six years after launch should tell you how these devs care about balancing pvp. But hey! Poison Volley got nerfed on the OP af ranger's Shortbow, so everything is fine. > > > > > > Yeah its fine. There's no difference between a 20k shatter combo from stealth and a 60k worldly impact. In terms of damage, you're still going to be downed. > > > > > > In fact, if you keep moving, he will be forced to use a knockdown first because you can't hit WI on a moving target. The knockdown might do a lot of damage because of the modifiers but it won't nearly be enough to one shot you. Breaking the cc and dodging WI and the maul that follows nullifies the whole combo. > > > > > > Also, a shatter meaner bursting from stealth is actually harder to avoid than a massive worldly impact. Not only does the entire combo cast nearly instantly, its also very hard to react to, can be hit on a moving target, and the mesmer still has more survivability than every other build that can reach similar damage numbers. > > > > The one shot shatter is not much of a thing in spvp anymore. Still a thing in wvw but rarely in spvp. You have a much higher chance of getting one shotted by a thief than any kind of mes build. > > And very few people run this soulbeast 1shot build as well... The argument isn't how many people are running it though. > > Also, if equal people ran shatter 1shot burst combo vs soulbeast 1shot burst combo, the mesmer side would always win because they have more escapes, more defensives and the burst is able to be cast on a moving target and much faster (almost instant). > > No offense, but you saying "it's not a thing anymore" is irrelevant, the damage is being compared and the effectiveness of the damage between the 2, not how many people use it. > > In context of that, shatter burst will always win over Soulbeast, and we're on the verge of discovering that Soulbeast may actually be bugged in getting these numbers - **let that sink in**. > > I would also say in terms of "people not using shatter burst mesmer anymore", less people use the soulbeast burst combo build than shatter mesmer burst build right now anyway, by far, but again the amount of people using it is irrelevant in context of what Shadow said. Few people ran it in spvp because it was barely known. Now more people run it, and you will see even more repeating what others do. In wvw, the one shot has been a thing since launch of the last expansion. I see them every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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