Increasing toxicity in EU WvW.

[Excellent Name.9574]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > @"Excellent Name.9574" said:

> >

> > >

> > > We decide what tier we go. UW can't even PPT if they wanted to. They also managed to make every single one of the comms they had ragequit the server and leading all together. So you're a server with no guilds, no comms, no coordination, no PPT'ers and no community. Tell me again why I should cater to UW? Tell me why I should go up in tiers? lul.

> >

> >

> > Your entire post just confirmed what I wrote, thank You for that. The only thing I agree with You is Your sentiment about UW and it is because UW was always predominantly PVE server, everyone who wanted WvW as primary activity moved, mostly to Desolation within the first year of the game and that hasn't changed to this day.

> >

>

> Yes, and I lead for the hundreds of players i interact with daily; who come on disc and talk to me and play together. How dare I cater to those rather than to you? Yet still; I'll lead PUBLIC and allow ANYONE. I just have two simple requests : LISTEN on discord and come on one of the specs / builds we ask for. Which is more stuff we do for others; give them builds and give them disc / voice to interact with others with. And even UW players are welcome there; they just all have to obey the same rules. If they don't then yes, you're not welcome. I have enough players waiting in queue that will follow these basic guidelines.

>

> > Oh and btw, anyone can tag up during weekends and have a full squad, literally anyone. Don't brag about it.

>

> That's a lie. Go on vabbi and show me your full squad.

> Go on FSP and show me your full squad.

> Go on gankdara and show me your full squad.

>

> I'd like to see it :trollface:

>

> 50 players - sure

> Queue - definitely

> full squad ? maybe. Full squad that isn't 1/3 next to useless specs? I highly doubt it.

>

> As I said, "squads half full" yada yada. Except it isn't half full.

> Tag up; show me your full squad. I'm yet to see a single UW comm get 50/50 players at any time.

 

Nothing I have said is a lie, but the tone of your posts paints a pretty clear picture of Your server's routine and that is something You have to work on Vabbi. I never said I wear a tag in WvW, I am a casual WvW player but I am also a keen observer, which I suspect can't be said for You. You brought your Vabbi rhetoric to this thread and I believe even players from servers that have no interactions with Vabbi can now imagine what is it like, on or with it, through Your posts entirely.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Excellent Name.9574" said:

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > > @"Excellent Name.9574" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > We decide what tier we go. UW can't even PPT if they wanted to. They also managed to make every single one of the comms they had ragequit the server and leading all together. So you're a server with no guilds, no comms, no coordination, no PPT'ers and no community. Tell me again why I should cater to UW? Tell me why I should go up in tiers? lul.

> > >

> > >

> > > Your entire post just confirmed what I wrote, thank You for that. The only thing I agree with You is Your sentiment about UW and it is because UW was always predominantly PVE server, everyone who wanted WvW as primary activity moved, mostly to Desolation within the first year of the game and that hasn't changed to this day.

> > >

> >

> > Yes, and I lead for the hundreds of players i interact with daily; who come on disc and talk to me and play together. How dare I cater to those rather than to you? Yet still; I'll lead PUBLIC and allow ANYONE. I just have two simple requests : LISTEN on discord and come on one of the specs / builds we ask for. Which is more stuff we do for others; give them builds and give them disc / voice to interact with others with. And even UW players are welcome there; they just all have to obey the same rules. If they don't then yes, you're not welcome. I have enough players waiting in queue that will follow these basic guidelines.

> >

> > > Oh and btw, anyone can tag up during weekends and have a full squad, literally anyone. Don't brag about it.

> >

> > That's a lie. Go on vabbi and show me your full squad.

> > Go on FSP and show me your full squad.

> > Go on gankdara and show me your full squad.

> >

> > I'd like to see it :trollface:

> >

> > 50 players - sure

> > Queue - definitely

> > full squad ? maybe. Full squad that isn't 1/3 next to useless specs? I highly doubt it.

> >

> > As I said, "squads half full" yada yada. Except it isn't half full.

> > Tag up; show me your full squad. I'm yet to see a single UW comm get 50/50 players at any time.

>

> Nothing I have said is a lie, but the tone of your posts paints a pretty clear picture of Your server's routine and that is something You have to work on Vabbi. I never said I wear a tag in WvW, I am a casual WvW player but I am also a keen observer, which I suspect can't be said for You. You brought your Vabbi rhetoric to this thread and I believe even players from servers that have no interactions with Vabbi can now imagine what is it like, on or with it, through Your posts entirely.

 

You brought your UW rhetoric here. You started flaming how we play on vabbi and how it doesn't cater to you, without even having a clue what goes on.

You literally stated vabbi squads aren't full because they kick so many players. So I say I have NO ISSUES getting a full squad.

 

And then you say "anyone can get a full squad". So I tell you to do so.

And then suddenly you can't.

 

You keep making up excuses as to why "vabbi" is evil and you're just a nice, keen smart observer but in reality... Nobody wants to lead for you. That isn't my fault.

 

Vabbi and their toxic group still has more commanders willing to lead than UW. Why is that, mr keen observer?

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > Toxicity is never a success. All it will do is push everybody away and you'll be left with only yourself to play with. Which I guess some people enjoy.

>

> You mean casuals moving to servers with elitists, demanding everyone play casual until the entire community leaves?

>

> Hmh; I wonder why a certain T1 main server which was stacked with guilds and public commanders throughout HoT is now medium AND has not a single public commander left. One can only wonder why that is. :trollface:

>

> No actually; that's what catering to casuals does. FSP : MEDIUM.

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > > Time for an update with the latest EU trends.

> > >

> > > With gvg / hardcore fight guilds dying

> > I think you are a little behind the trend, GvGs died like... 4 years ago. Maybe 5.

> >

> > > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > > As stated previously - the massive transfers towards FSP lead to most of the dedicated FSP community which made it strong originally leaving. After them leaving, these servers tend to implode quickly. Perhaps after it further implodes, some guilds will return? Perhaps it will turn into another pug-dominant server no comm or guild wants to go near. Only time will tell.

> > Perhaps the same thing will happen that has happened every time in this lava lamp tier system of bandwagoners? Yes, thats actually quite likely. Because it happens... every time. Over. And over. And over. Again.

>

> You insisted your server was nice. It went from a strong, stacked main server stable in T1-T2 to what I assume will be a link server next relinks. Does anyone still want to lead for you? Is there a single commander left? I doubt it. One of the vabbi comms went there but... yeah that won't last long either.

>

> Friends, EU WvW is both far more active and far more dead than NA. You want to play super casual; I get that. Here's the thing : nobody wants to lead and put up with a huge army of hypercasuals with insane expectations and no respect for the effort you do. The result? Nobody wants to put up with you.

>

> Because your expectations are huge; you refuse to join when you're not already winning and you demand to put in NO effort. In reality; that just puts all the effort on the group that has to carry your kitten. And none of them want to.

>

> Name 3 pugmanders on an EU T1 main server. Each of them get 3-4 queues on reset. Name THREE pugmanders that lead frequently. I can't.

> Name 3 pugmanders that play in T1 EU and that interact with their pugs. KISS doing closed with 40 players with pugs following - does that count?

>

> You tell me

>

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > 2 things

> >

> > 1. choose your buddies, they will back you up.

> > 2. block those who make this game mode unfun for you.

> >

> > enjoy =)

>

> I'll state it again. NOBODY wants to lead for the thousands of exceptionally demanding players that play WvW nowadays. It doesn't matter where you transfer, you have two options only :

> A ) No pugmanders, no community, no guilds, no pugs learning anything. Just a full-pug roam server that falls apart the moment they're against half-organised enemies.

> B ) Pugmanders that do their very best to avoid as many of the overdemanding casuals as possible.

>

> Almost all servers are already at A status. There are no comms for you. You can call me toxic; but it's the overdemanding players refusing to put in ANY effort or appreciation for these players that made them quit.

 

for the casual gw2 player, my options will fulfill their needs.

 

once they choose their team, they can learn or fail, but have fun. based on what i have seen as a prolofic observer of different servers, they eventually get good because they learn to toughen up.

 

as for blocking people, it is a feature. there is a jerk there? a troll? block. i urge more people to use it, unless massochistic.

 

as for pug commanding, players will always choose the better commander and thar commander has control whether he runs open, closed, ts, discord, or skype. rip ym by the way.

 

coms should also be sheltered from abuse.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

How easy it is to forget that we were once a vile, evil, disgusting Pugger. That once we were new to the game and had no idea what we were doing and only trying to lrn2ply nub. That we only had one level 80 character that was barely exotic'd out. That we had no ranks in WvW whatsoever. It must be nice to forget such things and just expect every player to automatically come into WvW knowing exactly what to do, having a full stable of all classes at level 80 with PoF, having full legendary equipment, and be rank 3000. It's just such a good feeling knowing that that is exactly how this game is played. That we know that everybody that logs into GW2 will have and do exactly what we need. I mean it's not like there are people out there that work an 8 hour job, come home, cook, clean, take care of kids, take online classes, do homework, help with homework, mow lawns, take out trash, etc. We all just live in our parent's basement playing GW2 on our most fastest internet and bestest computer for 16 hours a day, every day becoming the elite WvW'er we are today. Isn't it such a great feeling to be able to be toxic to those kind of players? It's great. Right?

[Etheri.5406]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> How easy it is to forget that we were once a vile, evil, disgusting Pugger.

 

I lead for pugs. I just set strict rules, which is asking them to run proper builds and classes to the extent that we can check them; and request them to listen on discord which anyone can freely join. So evil, hateful of disgusting puggers! Oh wait no; only the ones who refuse to follow our rules yet demand to follow every time.

 

>That once we were new to the game and had no idea what we were doing and only trying to lrn2ply nub. That we only had one level 80 character that was barely exotic'd out. That we had no ranks in WvW whatsoever. It must be nice to forget such things and just expect every player to automatically come into WvW knowing exactly what to do, having a full stable of all classes at level 80 with PoF, having full legendary equipment, and be rank 3000. It's just such a good feeling knowing that that is exactly how this game is played. That we know that everybody that logs into GW2 will have and do exactly what we need.

 

Omagod, new guys aren't allowed to join your dhuum cm group because they aren't lvl 80 and don't have pof? OMG TOXIC !!!!!

 

> I mean it's not like there are people out there that work an 8 hour job, come home, cook, clean, take care of kids, take online classes, do homework, help with homework, mow lawns, take out trash, etc. We all just live in our parent's basement playing GW2 on our most fastest internet and bestest computer for 16 hours a day, every day becoming the elite WvW'er we are today. Isn't it such a great feeling to be able to be toxic to those kind of players? It's great. Right?

 

99% of the players I kick have several thousand AP and HoT or PoF specs. Just not the ones we want them to run. Reaching endgame in GW2 is not difficult. You spend more than enough time on the forums to have reached it. Even then, I'd much rather cater to new players who are actually new than these hardcore-casuals that just demand every good group is waiting for them to join is for them no matter how they play.

 

And if there are no other groups around willing to lead for these nice newbs, puggers and hardcore casuals with their million demands... still not my fault. You'll accomplish nothing but fewer commanders and more hidden tags. Oh wait no that's already reality. Even less? Well... yeah!

 

Pugs are great. And there's INFINITE SUPPLY. Really, the amount of pugs looking for a commander is absurd. You can get a queue by having a good comm winning fights on literally ANY eu server between 6 pm and midnight CET. Which is why it's so great, you see there's so many puggers and so few commanders willing to lead them that you can be selective. You can promote the pugs that will play together and coordinate, and weed out the players looking to get carried to their rewards without really adding something to your group.

 

And since the remaining commanders still rather play with some puggers than some other puggers; it's some other puggers getting kicked. I'm just saying pugs have a choice in which kind of pug they are. I rarely see anyone kick valuable pugs or players they enjoy playing with.

[Tiawal.2351]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> How easy it is to forget that we were once a vile, evil, disgusting Pugger. That once we were new to the game and had no idea what we were doing and only trying to lrn2ply nub. That we only had one level 80 character that was barely exotic'd out. That we had no ranks in WvW whatsoever. It must be nice to forget such things and just expect every player to automatically come into WvW knowing exactly what to do, having a full stable of all classes at level 80 with PoF, having full legendary equipment, and be rank 3000. It's just such a good feeling knowing that that is exactly how this game is played. That we know that everybody that logs into GW2 will have and do exactly what we need. I mean it's not like there are people out there that work an 8 hour job, come home, cook, clean, take care of kids, take online classes, do homework, help with homework, mow lawns, take out trash, etc. We all just live in our parent's basement playing GW2 on our most fastest internet and bestest computer for 16 hours a day, every day becoming the elite WvW'er we are today. Isn't it such a great feeling to be able to be toxic to those kind of players? It's great. Right?

 

No, isn't right to be "toxic" towards those newbies & casuals for the reasons you listed -- but for other reasons, like they being "toxic". Not that I support either side in being "toxic", but is happening constantly. I understand both sides, except those who do nothing else but annoy others.

Both sides have to understand what is happening, and why.

 

This game has a good design in regular PvE: players can hit same enemy NPC and be rewarded, regardless their skill and level, they are encouraged to work together (there are some events though, which will fail unless the best players carry the rest, but mostly it's easy enough so isn't a big problem). This isn't true in WvW: what one does, can ruin the fun of their teammates in many cases, and doing it repeatedly leads to a very "toxic" environment. You can't just toss a bunch of newbies, casuals, and so on with competitive minded, skilled players and expect them to work together and have fun, when the game design expects you to be the most skilled and most organized team, in order to win.

 

The problem isn't that some are newbies or "bad" at the game, or that they don't want to improve, or that they don't care about how they play, and just want to have "fun"... but expecting to be carried by others and constantly blaming those who carry for every failure, while they are actually helping the enemy team more than their own team, being the reason for the failure of their team. The team can't win or have fun because them.

 

It's a team game, but the teams are more busy with infighting than fighting the enemy.

 

How many times haven't read a "casual" returning after 6 months of "being away" and asking in team chat: "Why WE aren't first place anymore?", or another "How WE lost that keep?", "Why are WE being farmed?", "Why WE suck so bad?"... Because there is no "WE", it's just those who are helping the team, and those who don't, and these talking this way and asking such questions aren't part of the team.

 

 

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> How easy it is to forget that we were once a vile, evil, disgusting Pugger. That once we were new to the game and had no idea what we were doing and only trying to lrn2ply nub. That we only had one level 80 character that was barely exotic'd out. That we had no ranks in WvW whatsoever. It must be nice to forget such things and just expect every player to automatically come into WvW knowing exactly what to do, having a full stable of all classes at level 80 with PoF, having full legendary equipment, and be rank 3000. It's just such a good feeling knowing that that is exactly how this game is played. That we know that everybody that logs into GW2 will have and do exactly what we need. I mean it's not like there are people out there that work an 8 hour job, come home, cook, clean, take care of kids, take online classes, do homework, help with homework, mow lawns, take out trash, etc. We all just live in our parent's basement playing GW2 on our most fastest internet and bestest computer for 16 hours a day, every day becoming the elite WvW'er we are today. Isn't it such a great feeling to be able to be toxic to those kind of players? It's great. Right?

 

I like newbies who are willing to give us a chance and try our way of things or suggest stuff and try their own. As long as their is communication, there is progress. But those who don't communicate, they either be a bot, or dont care.

 

so, if i ask a newbie or in team, any new players and they interact with us, not the trolls, we do help. suggesting basic webpages like metabattle.com or /wiki wvw for the basics. else, the only way for them to get better, in my opinion, is to join a wvw raid and experience it.

[Israel.7056]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> How easy it is to forget that we were once a vile, evil, disgusting Pugger. That once we were new to the game and had no idea what we were doing and only trying to lrn2ply nub. That we only had one level 80 character that was barely exotic'd out. That we had no ranks in WvW whatsoever. It must be nice to forget such things and just expect every player to automatically come into WvW knowing exactly what to do, having a full stable of all classes at level 80 with PoF, having full legendary equipment, and be rank 3000. It's just such a good feeling knowing that that is exactly how this game is played. That we know that everybody that logs into GW2 will have and do exactly what we need. I mean it's not like there are people out there that work an 8 hour job, come home, cook, clean, take care of kids, take online classes, do homework, help with homework, mow lawns, take out trash, etc. We all just live in our parent's basement playing GW2 on our most fastest internet and bestest computer for 16 hours a day, every day becoming the elite WvW'er we are today. Isn't it such a great feeling to be able to be toxic to those kind of players? It's great. Right?

 

Melodramatic nonsense and endless excuses. Am I supposed to feel pity?

[Etria.3642]

Well. Four months ago I was a druid main who knew NOTHING about wvw except that it was highly frustrating trying to guess where Kiyoshi would be leading his zerg so I could follow and get a gift of battle. I did try joining the squad but was kicked after refusing to join their discord.

 

(I preferred teamspeak). I was also geared for pve. Then I saw that CALM(his guild) was recruiting. Whispered. They did NOT reject my poor druid. Yes they did ask I play something else and gave me choices on what. They did require discord but by then I was fed up with guessing. So now I play a boonshare chrono and am gearing a spellbreaker and firebrand.

 

The point and why this matters? Because I've learned while following and observing that being a commander is hella stressful. People, even in the guild, only want to follow THAT commander even when he is trying to train new commanders. They want success and bags even over the long term benefit of having SEVERAL commanders. (Obviously this isn't the WHOLE guild) but a learning commander gets fewer guildies and MANY fewer pugs and that is disheartening too.

 

I've also seen Etheri in these forums claim he'll take the newbs THEY JUST NEED to follow his rules, which apparently are pretty close to CALM's. Voice. Squad. Use correct build. If you are level 80 on the wrong class? GO LEVEL SOMETHING WANTED. I guarantee that zerg won't kick a firebrand who joins the voice com. Just the stubborn druid(or ranger or whatever) who won't.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> Well. Four months ago I was a druid main who knew NOTHING about wvw except that it was highly frustrating trying to guess where Kiyoshi would be leading his zerg so I could follow and get a gift of battle. I did try joining the squad but was kicked after refusing to join their discord.

>

> (I preferred teamspeak). I was also geared for pve. Then I saw that CALM(his guild) was recruiting. Whispered. They did NOT reject my poor druid. Yes they did ask I play something else and gave me choices on what. They did require discord but by then I was fed up with guessing. So now I play a boonshare chrono and am gearing a spellbreaker and firebrand.

 

And this is why I'll never ever announce when or where anyone is leading on teamchat or mapchat. Pugs will ask several times an hour if / where there is a commander, we'll almost always reply the discord link, and most of them really can't seem to figure it out.

 

Still, this doesn't stop many hardcore casuals from griefing others. I wonder why there's so many players who are quite vocal about being "against" this elitism and toxicity still on my follower list, magically appearing on whatever border i'm playing on despite there being a queue.

 

> The point and why this matters? Because I've learned while following and observing that being a commander is hella stressful. People, even in the guild, only want to follow THAT commander even when he is trying to train new commanders. They want success and bags even over the long term benefit of having SEVERAL commanders. (Obviously this isn't the WHOLE guild) but a learning commander gets fewer guildies and MANY fewer pugs and that is disheartening too.

 

This is very true and imo problematic. I'll get 10+ casual carebears telling me "I must cater to everyone because I lead public / a zerg / the map belongs to them to / it's elitist not to / casual game / they bought the game too / god knows what every time I lead. I'll literally get flamed by players who are following me, out of squad. And the moment someone tags who doesn't have elitist demands? Right; none of these players bother following. The moment someone new or less experience tags? Still nope.

 

It's funny, you actually get more players on my server by being elitist. If you aren't elitist; the good players dislike following and playing dedicated firebrand to 2 rangers and a core tempest... And if the good players aren't following and carrying the snowflakes; then the snowflakes won't follow cause they're just there to leech loot. Better off kicking all the snowflakes to give the good players actual support and decent parties; at least then they're happy and willing to try to carry. And magically the snowflakes you're kicking follow as soon as you win a few fights.

 

Again, there is NO shortage of pugs. There is an INFINITE supply of pugs looking to get carried. It's just that they're only interested when you can carry them.

 

>

> I've also seen Etheri in these forums claim he'll take the newbs THEY JUST NEED to follow his rules, which apparently are pretty close to CALM's. Voice. Squad. Use correct build. If you are level 80 on the wrong class? GO LEVEL SOMETHING WANTED. I guarantee that zerg won't kick a firebrand who joins the voice com. Just the stubborn druid(or ranger or whatever) who won't.

 

This. Nobody ever kicks players who are useful. Many pugs are getting to a point where they're a negative contribution to their own group... From my perspective playing so questionable is a skill.

 

I'm glad you found da wae. You're now a reformed ranger main and very much welcome.

I don't mind rangers themselves; but it's funny how despite hundreds of adamant "ranger mains", the moment I want to run rangers with my group I'll still ask MY players to run it over allowing ANY random pug ranger to join. The issue isn't with them playing ranger; the issue is with their attitude and the effect it has on their gameplay.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> Well. Four months ago I was a druid main who knew NOTHING about wvw except that it was highly frustrating trying to guess where Kiyoshi would be leading his zerg so I could follow and get a gift of battle. I did try joining the squad but was kicked after refusing to join their discord.

>

> (I preferred teamspeak). I was also geared for pve. Then I saw that CALM(his guild) was recruiting. Whispered. They did NOT reject my poor druid. Yes they did ask I play something else and gave me choices on what. They did require discord but by then I was fed up with guessing. So now I play a boonshare chrono and am gearing a spellbreaker and firebrand.

>

> The point and why this matters? Because I've learned while following and observing that being a commander is hella stressful. People, even in the guild, only want to follow THAT commander even when he is trying to train new commanders. They want success and bags even over the long term benefit of having SEVERAL commanders. (Obviously this isn't the WHOLE guild) but a learning commander gets fewer guildies and MANY fewer pugs and that is disheartening too.

>

> I've also seen Etheri in these forums claim he'll take the newbs THEY JUST NEED to follow his rules, which apparently are pretty close to CALM's. Voice. Squad. Use correct build. If you are level 80 on the wrong class? GO LEVEL SOMETHING WANTED. I guarantee that zerg won't kick a firebrand who joins the voice com. Just the stubborn druid(or ranger or whatever) who won't.

 

This is the right attitude.

[nthmetal.9652]

You do realize, that this part of only requesting certain builds / accepting only the meta builds is part of the problem, right? I am not sure this kind of elitist thinking is going to solve the issue. Building a community IMO works best when offering an inclusive culture. Requests ("could you play XYZ)" - not followed by a kick when not following through - instead of demands (you play XYZ, or you can't join), talking to players to get feedback, etc.

Generally I also see the most success and fun with commanders offering that kind of culture. There might ba music bot on TS to provide some additional relaxing atmosphere, no talk about class composition at all, just rolling over the map, taking objectives, fighting zergs, sometimes losing, often winning, never whining.

 

Generally I don't see the big issue with the WvW community. Even without a commander, you request help in defending a certain objective, and players will come and help. You report in attacks, or post where you are moving, and people will join in. Of course bigger objectives, such as conquering keeps, especially against defense, work better with a commander, no doubt. Overall I would not call the WvW community selfish, though.

 

[naikZZ.4976]

EtHeRi AlWaYs RiGhT eVeRy1 eLsE aLwAyS rOnG.

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> You do realize, that this part of only requesting certain builds / accepting only the meta builds is part of the problem, right? I am not sure this kind of elitist thinking is going to solve the issue. Building a community IMO works best when offering an inclusive culture. Requests ("could you play XYZ)" - not followed by a kick when not following through - instead of demands (you play XYZ, or you can't join), talking to players to get feedback, etc.

> Generally I also see the most success and fun with commanders offering that kind of culture. There might ba music bot on TS to provide some additional relaxing atmosphere, no talk about class composition at all, just rolling over the map, taking objectives, fighting zergs, sometimes losing, often winning, never whining.

>

> Generally I don't see the big issue with the WvW community. Even without a commander, you request help in defending a certain objective, and players will come and help. You report in attacks, or post where you are moving, and people will join in. Of course bigger objectives, such as conquering keeps, especially against defense, work better with a commander, no doubt. Overall I would not call the WvW community selfish, though.

>

 

playing something useful is part of the problem? hahaah

leechers are the problem

[steki.1478]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> You do realize, that this part of only requesting certain builds / accepting only the meta builds is part of the problem, right? I am not sure this kind of elitist thinking is going to solve the issue. Building a community IMO works best when offering an inclusive culture. Requests ("could you play XYZ)" - not followed by a kick when not following through - instead of demands (you play XYZ, or you can't join), talking to players to get feedback, etc.

> Generally I also see the most success and fun with commanders offering that kind of culture. There might ba music bot on TS to provide some additional relaxing atmosphere, no talk about class composition at all, just rolling over the map, taking objectives, fighting zergs, sometimes losing, often winning, never whining.

>

> Generally I don't see the big issue with the WvW community. Even without a commander, you request help in defending a certain objective, and players will come and help. You report in attacks, or post where you are moving, and people will join in. Of course bigger objectives, such as conquering keeps, especially against defense, work better with a commander, no doubt. Overall I would not call the WvW community selfish, though.

>

 

There's a lot of commanders that do that, but they lead ppt guilds and do karma trains 24/7. Not particularly fun to fight with or against because they run away as soon as better (not bigger) group shows up or simply get rolled over.

 

You cant leach much from those as much as you can from a proper squad. Even pugs know that.

[Finitura.5843]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> You do realize, that this part of only requesting certain builds / accepting only the meta builds is part of the problem, right? I am not sure this kind of elitist thinking is going to solve the issue. Building a community IMO works best when offering an inclusive culture. Requests ("could you play XYZ)" - not followed by a kick when not following through - instead of demands (you play XYZ, or you can't join), talking to players to get feedback, etc.

> Generally I also see the most success and fun with commanders offering that kind of culture. There might ba music bot on TS to provide some additional relaxing atmosphere, no talk about class composition at all, just rolling over the map, taking objectives, fighting zergs, sometimes losing, often winning, never whining.

>

> Generally I don't see the big issue with the WvW community. Even without a commander, you request help in defending a certain objective, and players will come and help. You report in attacks, or post where you are moving, and people will join in. Of course bigger objectives, such as conquering keeps, especially against defense, work better with a commander, no doubt. Overall I would not call the WvW community selfish, though.

>

 

There are plenty of communities that think this way and i encourage everyone with your mindset to join those communities. The core of the issue is that most players don’t want to join those communities because they do not offer free loot and get farmed. The non meta players grab their gems transfer to a server that wins fights and then demand to be included. So what is the real issue here? A community that runs standards so they can play in a way that they enjoy and have people that enjoy playing that way. Or the players that forcefully try to be included while not contributing anything to said community?

[nthmetal.9652]

> So what is the real issue here? A community that runs standards so they can play in a way that they enjoy and have people that enjoy playing that way. Or the players that forcefully try to be included while not contributing anything to said community?

 

The professions, that in the eyes of some commanders offer too little, to aid in large scale context.

 

Contributing to the community does not come only from the build, but IMO way more from the behavior of the players, and I see little sign of leechers. Where some people accuse some players of being "leechers" for playing what they like (oh how dare I? How dare anyone play what they like and expect to be included in the group experience. I am not talking about ###### players who generally behave like ######. I am not talking about personalities here, I am talking about the right to choose your own profession and experience the whole game, not bits and pieces of it. Drawing conclusions about personalities from the profession choise is _wrong_.), there are other players, "accusing" some players of being elitist, effectively locking players out from parts of the playing experience by building a non-inclusive group-mentality. In this case by blaming someone for their preferred choise of profession.

 

Workaround: Fix the professions, which are seen as selfish and offering too little.

[Strider Pj.2193]

WTH did this thread get Necro’d?

 

 

[steki.1478]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> WTH did this thread get Necro’d?

>

>

 

Because reviving skills are bugged when ally is below 33% downed health and poisoned.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > WTH did this thread get Necro’d?

> >

> >

>

> Because reviving skills are bugged when ally is below 33% downed health and poisoned.

 

Well, I wish we had old necro minion capability.., I could create minions from all these old and dead threads.

 

 

[steki.1478]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > WTH did this thread get Necro’d?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Because reviving skills are bugged when ally is below 33% downed health and poisoned.

>

> Well, I wish we had old necro minion capability.., I could create minions from all these old and dead threads.

>

>

 

I missed this thread though, free content until new LS episode comes out.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > WTH did this thread get Necro’d?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Because reviving skills are bugged when ally is below 33% downed health and poisoned.

> >

> > Well, I wish we had old necro minion capability.., I could create minions from all these old and dead threads.

> >

> >

>

> I missed this thread though, free content until new LS episode comes out.

 

True.

 

But.. is it REALLY free?

 

I feel like it costs me just a little part of my soul with each post...

[Finitura.5843]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> Workaround: Fix the professions, which are seen as selfish and offering too little.

 

This would be the ideal solution where everything has a place in squad and people get to pick what they play.

But why not pick the already available option and play with the people that have the same mindset as you? You are basicly pointing to another issue why people should be allowed to run with their non optimal builds/classes in a group that strives to play with these. Its a selfish way of thinking and generally worse than what people count as toxicity (removing said players from your squad because they do not provide what other classes can to a squad).

With the mentality of everyone should be able to join any squad you are basicly the guy that wasn’t invited to a party that shows up anyway without a gift but still expects free drinks and snacks.

[nthmetal.9652]

> With the mentality of everyone should be able to join any squad you are basicly the guy that wasn’t invited to a party that shows up anyway without a gift but still expects free drinks and snacks.

 

With one exception: If I was kicked from the squad, it means I was in the squad. It likely means it was open. So I basically was invited. Only then to be told GTFO.

If a squad was open, have an open mentality. You don't want that, create an invite-only squad. No need to kick people, no need for drama.

 

Generally you call what I propose as selfish. And I would (and do) argue, that the elitist way of thinking is also selfish: Exclude all those ##### casuals from the game mode, because they drag everyone down simply by being there. Why is it selfish? Because it creates an "us versus them" schism, where "us" is part of the "superior classes" group allowed to join any zerg, while "them" are of course free to follow along, but clearly being told that they are part of a lesser group.

This eventually drives people away from the game mode, leaving only the "us" players there, which is what they wanted in the first place. It's just as selfish. And shortsighted.

 

 

[Finitura.5843]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> > With the mentality of everyone should be able to join any squad you are basicly the guy that wasn’t invited to a party that shows up anyway without a gift but still expects free drinks and snacks.

>

> With one exception: If I was kicked from the squad, it means I was in the squad. It likely means it was open. So I basically was invited. Only then to be told GTFO.

> If a squad was open, have an open mentality. You don't want that, create an invite-only squad. No need to kick people, no need for drama.

>

> Generally you call what I propose as selfish. And I would (and do) argue, that the elitist way of thinking is also selfish: Exclude all those ##### casuals from the game mode, because they drag everyone down simply by being there. Why is it selfish? Because it creates an "us versus them" schism, where "us" is part of the "superior classes" group allowed to join any zerg, while "them" are of course free to follow along, but clearly being told that they are part of a lesser group.

> This eventually drives people away from the game mode, leaving only the "us" players there, which is what they wanted in the first place. It's just as selfish. And shortsighted.

>

>

I don’t exclude anyone from playing the game mode the way they want to play it.

I am merely saying that there is a wide variety of options to choose from that don’t include joining a squad of players that wants to win fights and have builds/classes made to reach this goal.

 

> With one exception: If I was kicked from the squad, it means I was in the squad. It likely means it was open. So I basically was invited. Only then to be told GTFO.

> If a squad was open, have an open mentality. You don't want that, create an invite-only squad. No need to kick people, no need for drama.

>

With your logic if i leave the door open while having a party at my house you are free to walk in and i have no right to kick you out?

I’m not sure if you see the flaws in your own logic. The fact that we open the squad for anyone to join means we give you the chance to play with us. The fact that you refuse to play the way we play but still want to play with us is not our fault is it now?

 

And there will always be a us vs them mentality in group activities. Because you form a group there exists a collective us. This “us” creates a standard which makes the game enjoyable for the way they play. What right do you have to disrupt this? Why are you entitled to a spot in squad while making 0 effort?