T4 and pugging: why are things worse?

[Deeyra.1476]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

 

 

Yes. Most of us started in T1 thought. we didnt skip to T4 where people expect a bit of experience

 

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"Deeyra.1476" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

>

>

> Yes. Most of us started in T1 thought. we didnt skip to T4 where people expect a bit of experience

>

 

there will always be people trying to get to "max-lvl" in 2 hours of work. sure

just had a discussion with somebody telling me "nope i'd rather not do it, than putting **some** effort into XYZ"

 

both sides should act less "black and white" and more "grey" i guess. if you know what i mean. *shrugs*

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

> there would be more people knowing what to do, more willing to try something, more experience, more fun

>

> dont expect everybody to be as dedicated to the game as you may are. its a multiplayer, expecting everybody to study 4 weeks is boring, there is no natural learning curve, its frustrating and urgh for newer-ish players.

> dont force people to run a super very specific build... suggest things in the direction of meta and explain why by saying more than "its best". also do it step by step.

> also

>

> having a bow-bear, a minion master, a turret engi can start by explaining shortly that e.g. stacking, using better pets/more suited weapons/less minions/less turrets and avoiding major mechanics is necessary to make the _insert pve instance_ work like a breeze.

>

> and yes this is a little work, but a lot less work than you needed to get to that level of mastering cms in 3min.

> and it should start at the very beginning. you are not doing cms once in a while and instead t4 with a friend? take an extra minute typing in what is vital for the next turn if you feel like it is necessary. less wipes, everybody wins.

>

> the more of us doing just the above, the less work for everybody... the overall level/experience of players rises. winwin

>

>

 

If you think the average pug is open to criticism about his/her build, you play a different game....

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

> > there would be more people knowing what to do, more willing to try something, more experience, more fun

> >

> > dont expect everybody to be as dedicated to the game as you may are. its a multiplayer, expecting everybody to study 4 weeks is boring, there is no natural learning curve, its frustrating and urgh for newer-ish players.

> > dont force people to run a super very specific build... suggest things in the direction of meta and explain why by saying more than "its best". also do it step by step.

> > also

> >

> > having a bow-bear, a minion master, a turret engi can start by explaining shortly that e.g. stacking, using better pets/more suited weapons/less minions/less turrets and avoiding major mechanics is necessary to make the _insert pve instance_ work like a breeze.

> >

> > and yes this is a little work, but a lot less work than you needed to get to that level of mastering cms in 3min.

> > and it should start at the very beginning. you are not doing cms once in a while and instead t4 with a friend? take an extra minute typing in what is vital for the next turn if you feel like it is necessary. less wipes, everybody wins.

> >

> > the more of us doing just the above, the less work for everybody... the overall level/experience of players rises. winwin

> >

> >

>

> If you think the average pug is open to criticism about his/her build, you play a different game....

 

i call your argument an exaggeration

 

it really isnt **that** bad.

maybe it is your approach/attitude that makes it seem that way. but i really can not tell, since i dont know anything about you

 

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > > if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

> > > there would be more people knowing what to do, more willing to try something, more experience, more fun

> > >

> > > dont expect everybody to be as dedicated to the game as you may are. its a multiplayer, expecting everybody to study 4 weeks is boring, there is no natural learning curve, its frustrating and urgh for newer-ish players.

> > > dont force people to run a super very specific build... suggest things in the direction of meta and explain why by saying more than "its best". also do it step by step.

> > > also

> > >

> > > having a bow-bear, a minion master, a turret engi can start by explaining shortly that e.g. stacking, using better pets/more suited weapons/less minions/less turrets and avoiding major mechanics is necessary to make the _insert pve instance_ work like a breeze.

> > >

> > > and yes this is a little work, but a lot less work than you needed to get to that level of mastering cms in 3min.

> > > and it should start at the very beginning. you are not doing cms once in a while and instead t4 with a friend? take an extra minute typing in what is vital for the next turn if you feel like it is necessary. less wipes, everybody wins.

> > >

> > > the more of us doing just the above, the less work for everybody... the overall level/experience of players rises. winwin

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If you think the average pug is open to criticism about his/her build, you play a different game....

>

> i call your argument an exaggeration

>

> it really isnt **that** bad.

> maybe it is your approach/attitude that makes it seem that way. but i really can not tell, since i dont know anything about you

>

>

 

Most of my experiences in the Last 6months, and I have been doing facts for 3+ years:

"Please use potions and food" - response: "i am fine"

"Would you mind changing your pets and bring more CC, as we lack a chrono? Thanks" - response:"Just let me heal"

"Necro, can you use a different weaponset instead of staff? It has horrible dmg" - response: "i use what i want, staff is ok (because it looks good?)"

"could you please not use signet of air, ele? There are better utilities for dps!" - response: "kitten, you mind your own business"

Even if pugs WERE to change utilities /weapons/pets, THEY DONT KNOW HOW AND WHEN TO USE THEM. So sorry, but I will not pamper any pug anymore. They better use their own time to get better, not mine. I will either politely leave, or when the group decides to kick, I will also kick.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> if the majority of you would stay polite, a tiny bit patient and **explain** rather than throwing out excuses and bullying people from the beginning (remember, you started somewhere aswell), the experience would differ a lot throughout the whole process.

> there would be more people knowing what to do, more willing to try something, more experience, more fun

>

> dont expect everybody to be as dedicated to the game as you may are. its a multiplayer, expecting everybody to study 4 weeks is boring, there is no natural learning curve, its frustrating and urgh for newer-ish players.

> dont force people to run a super very specific build... suggest things in the direction of meta and explain why by saying more than "its best". also do it step by step.

> also

>

> having a bow-bear, a minion master, a turret engi can start by explaining shortly that e.g. stacking, using better pets/more suited weapons/less minions/less turrets and avoiding major mechanics is necessary to make the _insert pve instance_ work like a breeze.

>

> and yes this is a little work, but a lot less work than you needed to get to that level of mastering cms in 3min.

> and it should start at the very beginning. you are not doing cms once in a while and instead t4 with a friend? take an extra minute typing in what is vital for the next turn if you feel like it is necessary. less wipes, everybody wins.

>

> the more of us doing just the above, the less work for everybody... the overall level/experience of players rises. winwin

 

If I want to train, teach or help people in certain game modes I advertise that as such. If I want to play my dailies (a.k.a. getting routine things done without struggling) I advertise as such. In the former case everything is fine and (almost always) every build is allowed to bring, no problem at all. But, the latter one is **not** for explaining and wiping over and over again. It's for what it is: getting things done with routine tactics.

What I and all the others can and must expect that people **respect the lfg** - they just don't do it. ^^ If players do so we would have less problems and so-called toxicity!

 

Additionally, in most cases a lot of experienced players are patient enough, willing to communicate and helping out. The bigger problem is the not-responding of newer/inexperienced players in T4. You ask simple questions, you delegate tasks politely, you call out targets and still the majority refuses to be responsive and in the end they completely play antagonistic and against the team. That's a thing that should never happen in T4 since you had to make your way up to that tier!

 

To your information, you are **not able** to start at T4 and neither see the T4 section of the lfg without having a buddy/guild mate opening it for you if your level is not in the higher T3 section. That means people must have played not only a few, no a lot of fractal levels before and already seen and played the content. So, as a T4 player I can expect others to be at least a little bit familiar with the fractal level mechanics and nevertheless I have gotten players into my groups that showed the above mentioned reactions. This is why I'm completely against easy mode raids because the tier systems for fractals doesn't work like some want us make believe. People don't accept the learning step/curve and are smuggled through because T1 & 2 are no-brainers and are carried through T3s via other players in some way or with luck, hours of trying still without understanding the mechanics.

 

Yesterday one player joined for level 100 (normal mode) with 116 AR and died on spot after entering the Skorvald fight. Later then, I had a condi druid + condi reaper not able to survive together on Aartsariv while I was chilling on my full glass cannon dragonhunter. I grabbed an additional healer from the lfg and those two guys still refused to listen to gentle commands a.k.a. not doing the bubble because I would take care. They both died again trying to jump to the bubble fields. In the end both were hard-carried through 100. If I didn't stay calm and were in the mood to carry them I would have quit instantly.