The V.8759 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I thought it would be nice to make a long list of all the skills and traits that are basicly never used in the game. I think it's a shame that we have so many skills and traits in the game, but a portion of them is just useless, even for a niche. Now I'm not knowledgable about every class, at least not in depth enough, so please post your listings and I will add them to the list. Please note that things that have a niche are not useless (Thumper Turret for blasting for example) and will not be added to the list. **Elementalist** _Skills_ - Glyph of Restoration - Ice Spike - Shatterstone - Conjure Frost Bow - Signet of Air _Traits_ - Conjurer - One with Fire - Power Overwhelming - Elemental Shielding - Strength of Stone - Arcane Precision - Elemental Contingency - Elemental Surge - Latent Stamina - Tempestuous Aria - Lucis Singularity - _Traits_ **Engineer** (Includes Toolbelt skills) _Skills:_ - Elixir R - Throw Mine - Utility Goggles - Flame Turret - Net Turret - Rocket Turret - Shredder Gyro _Traits:_ - Expert Examination (?) - Orbital Command - Autodefense Bomb Dispenser **Guardian** _Skills:_ - Signet of Courage - Light's Judgement - Hold the Line - Save yourselves - Mantra of Truth - Hallowed Ground _Traits:_ - Blinding Jeopardy - Perfect Inscriptions - Retaliatory Subconscious - Empowering Might - Battle Presence **Mesmer** _Skills_ - Illusion of Life **Necromancer** _Skills_ - Signet of Vampirism - Summon Bone Minions - Signet of Locust - Signet of Undeath - Spectral Wall - Well of Darkness - Lich Form - Serpent Siphon _Traits:_ - Feed from corruption - Spectral mastery - Fear of Death - Dhuumfire - Life from Death - Unholy Martyr - Flesh of the master - Putrid Defense - Soul comprehension - Death Nova - Unholy Sanctuary - Terrifying Descent - Terror - Spiteful Renewal **Ranger** _Skills_ - Frost Trap - Muddy Terrain - Griffon Stance - Spirits (outside some group content) - Signet of the wild (active) - Porcine F2 _Traits_ - Empathic bond - Shared Anguish - Natural Healing **Revenant** **Thief** _Skills:_ - Ice Drake Venom - Ambush - Tripwire _Traits:_ - Signet of Power - Sundering Shade - Shadow Protector - Guarded Initiation - Assassins Reward - Vigorous Recovery **Warrior** _Skills:_ - Fear Me - Imminent Threat _Traits:_ - Brave Stride - Great Fortitude - Merciless Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 I don't have enough time myself to complete the list at the moment, post your suggestions on what should be on there and I'll copy it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > I don't have enough time myself to complete the list at the moment, post your suggestions on what should be on there and I'll copy it in we use signet of mercy in gvg's just saying for warri id say right off the bat skills: fear me on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity) imminent threat sight beyond sight traits: brave stride great fortitude merciless hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 your lock on trait for engi, half the holos in WvW run it and it is the most powerfull reveal ingame as it will only go on cooldown when it actually reveals and has 2 seperate cooldowns. **for thief** : _traits_ : signets of power sundering shade shadow protector guarded initation assassins reward vigorous recovery _skills_: i personally think ice drake venom, skale venom, ambush and tripwire are of not worth a slot, yet i have seen them too much in use to put them on a list here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > for warri id say right off the bat > skills: > on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity) > sight beyond sight many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 List has been updated: - For warrior I added the suggestions, but kept in sight beyond sight and on my mark (See MUDse comment). - Signet of Mercy has been removed from the list - Lock on has been removed - Thief suggestions have been added. I kept out Skale Venom for venom share niches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlinvf.1358 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Buff everything I use, Nerf everything that kills me. Perfect game achieved. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Ranger: Skills: Frost trap Muddy terrain Griffon stance Spirits outside group content Signet of the wild active Traits: Beastmastery upper row (just lackluster) Natural healing Poisonmaster (is used but is crappy) Empathic bond Shared anguish (judt because its the worst CC break trait) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 **Elementalist:** * almost the entire earh trait line * some of the fire trait line (adept and master traits) * Cleansing water since its the most OP trait in ele that guide the way to build ele too much in pvp. * If you change cleansing water than change weaver grandmaster too. * Tempest trait line to give it more team support than just healing on auras and some weird might that doesn't even stack well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > for warri id say right off the bat > > skills: > > on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity) > > sight beyond sight > > > many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it. the question is, does it help them to kill you? if not at all, well then id say it still needs some tuning, keeping in mind that those skills are specifically made to somewhat counter stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > for warri id say right off the bat > > > skills: > > > on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity) > > > sight beyond sight > > > > > > many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it. > > the question is, does it help them to kill you? if not at all, well then id say it still needs some tuning, keeping in mind that those skills are specifically made to somewhat counter stealth well if i fight multiple opponents and one is a warrior then yes it does. if i fight only a warrior then no, i have to do other mistakes to die to a warrior, but that is more a slow warrior skill issue that you wont fix with those skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > **Guardian** > _Skills:_ > - Sanctuary > - Bane Signet > - Signet of Wrath > - Signet of Courage > - Light's Judgement > > _Traits:_ > - Blinding Jeopardy > - Perfect Inscriptions > - Retaliatory Subconscious How is Bane Signet useless? It's been THE meta skill for anything PvE since this game launched and still is. Everything else has changed over the years but Bane Signet is and has always been in the Guardian skillbar every time you enter a raid, a fractal or a dungeon. It might be a bit boring but sometimes boring is good. Add "Hold the Line!" on the list. It used to be good but it has been left behind by the powercreep. You can also add Empowering Might and Battle Presence on the trait department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Necromancer: **Traits** Spite: * Spiteful Renewal * Dread (Arguably) * Signets of Suffering Curses: * Terrifying Descent * Terror Death Magic: * Flesh of the Master(Under preforms can actually be a detriment in PvE) * Shrouded Removal (scourge only) * Putrid Defense * Soul Comprehension * Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.) * Deadly Strength * Death Nova * Corrupter's Fervor * Unholy Sanctuary Blood Magic: * Life from Death (Especially on scourge) * Banshee's Wail * Unholy Martyr Soul reaping: * Spectral Mastery * Fear of Death * Dhuumfire (Scourge only in WvW and PvP) Scourge: * Feed from Corruption **Shroud Skills** * Dark Path * Life Transfer * Tainted Shackles **Weapon Skills** * Mark of Blood * Rending Claws * Unholy Feast **Utility, heal and Elite Skills** * Signet of Vampirism * Corrupt Boon (Arguable.) * Summon Bone Minions * Signet of the Locust * Signet of Undeath * Spectral Grasp * Spectral Wall (Under preforms) * Well of Darkness * Lich Form * Dessicate * Serpent Siphon I didn't mention all the skills and traits that under preform either. Otherwise it would be almost all of them. I don't feel anything on reaper is useless, but a lot I can see as under-preforming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Add Warrior's _Body Blow_ to this list. Similarly to _Merciless Hammer_ is is utterly useless because all the weapons that can take advantage of it are not Condition-based, but Power-based, so the extra inflicted Conditions are limp and impotent because you'd use them with Power stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceofbass.2163 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > I thought it would be nice to make a long list of all the skills and traits that are basicly never used in the game. > **Guardian** > _Skills:_ > - Sanctuary > - Bane Signet > - Signet of Wrath > _Traits:_ > - Blinding Jeopardy > - Perfect Inscriptions > - Retaliatory Subconscious IMO sanctuary is a great point capture prevention in pvp and helps secure stomps/resses, to keep the annoying spectral flames away from boss in deepstone, and used when you need additional projectile hate uptime(i.e volcanic fractal boss). Bane and signet of wrath are both used in pve with DH power and FB condi builds respectively. Traits I agree. I would suggest the shouts; save yourselves, hold the line, retreat. Add in hallowed ground and mantra of truth. As for the elementalist, I always wanted to use it but I don't think it's worth it even for a support build - glyph of restoration. Almost the same goes for mesmer's illusion of life but I know one person who runs it in my server when zerging so I guess that counts? Lol >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 While I do think thief as a whole needs some work (unload needs a damage buff (it does less damage then most AAs while also limiting usability of your other weapon skills) and its ini cost lowered for sPvP / WvW, skills / traits like signet of malice / assassin's reward should scale significantly better with healing power and invigorating precision should also be affected by healing power), if there's one thing that needs a rework / improvement it's definitely the shortbow. No one ever uses it aside for "teleporting around". The ini costs are fine but most of the weapon skills are just bad. Take cluster bomb for example: it does barely any damage and requires you to jump into the enemy group to get any use out of it thanks to how detonate cluster works (which should honestly just be a second explosion right after the initial one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > -SNIP- Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it. > * Signets of Suffering The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though. > * Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.) Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here. > * Deadly Strength Is fine. > * Corrupter's Fervor The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list. > * Unholy Sanctuary Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier. > * Banshee's Wail This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness. > * Rending Claws Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill. > * Unholy Feast Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely. > * Corrupt Boon (Arguable.) Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault. > * Spectral Grasp Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF. > * Well of Darkness Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells. > * Dessicate Same thing as with Corrupt Boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H.6142 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > * Dessicate > Same thing as with Corrupt Boon. I find this melee skilldoesnt fit the kit. It’s radius is way too small or should be ground target. There’s no animation so no feedback to the player of its hits. Based on its name, it should have some of that vitality drain like is found on the Lich now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Oh i forgot to mention: Porcine F2 in any mode, in pvp/wvw your enemies xan use the pick ups and its clunky in all moded, a mechanic change needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H.6142 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Revenant - Ive never touched the heals on incoming damage, condi or physical. The staff orb, taunt/retaliation improvements don’t seem that impactful, and momentary pacification doesn’t fit some elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > -SNIP- > > Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it. > > > > * Signets of Suffering > The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though. > > * Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.) > Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here. > > * Deadly Strength > Is fine. > > * Corrupter's Fervor > The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list. > > * Unholy Sanctuary > Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier. > > * Banshee's Wail > This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness. > > * Rending Claws > Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill. > > * Unholy Feast > Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely. > > * Corrupt Boon (Arguable.) > Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault. > > * Spectral Grasp > Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF. > > * Well of Darkness > Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells. > > * Dessicate > Same thing as with Corrupt Boon. Signet of suffering shouldn't exist. It doesn't have a purpose in the game aside from shotty patchwork for a broken mechanic. And not in a OP way broken. Shroud should not block off your utility skills. This is a major design flaw of the necromancer and having a trait that later patches up the short sighted design of the dev's doesn't make it good. Reaper's protection isn't surrounded by better traits within death or out of death. It makes it a gimmick at best and because it doesn't have the right support its not good. So I stand by my case here. Corrupted Fervor being the best trait in death is arguable. I think shrouded removal is the best trait in death. Corrupted Fervor doesn't do much for you. It's fairly weak and death on it's own doesn't give a whole lot of options to support it. You end up having to choose it over something like blood, curses or soul reaping which all offer a stronger option. Blood gives quite a bit of recovery, curses has weakening shroud and soul reaping hives more health along with more life force on top of foot in the grave which is a stunbreak. Maybe it could be good if death had stronger support for a bunker condi set up but it really doesn't. Deathly strength is bad. The necromancer forums have had this debate for years now. And the majority consensus is that it just underperforms. Every once in a while we get someone singing the praises of this trait but it's got a bad start conversation, in a bad specialization, with contradictory design around conditions and toughness with this odd outlier in the spec. It's very bad. Unholy Sanctuary has been labeled as one of the worst traits of them all. And you want to top that off it actually doesn't function hardly at all with scourge. It will fail on scourge if you don't have something like 16% life force to use. This trait is a trap. It suckers newbies into thinking its amazing when in truth it has proven to be more of a detriment than anything else. Even on reaper and core. Even if this was a master trait if I had only one minion I'd take Necromantic Corruption over it. Even if it was an adapt trait I'd take shrouded removal over it. Even if it was in another trait line as an adept I'd take something else. It is that bad. For banshee's wail I think I might have been a bit unfair with this one. Yeah it's not bad. My frustration is more with the warhorn skills themselves than the trait itself. Unholy fervor has been a part of the biggest regret I have in guild wars. I hate this skill. It might be personal bias since I used to like it. But they changed its function slightly and ruined its animation making it look like I'm paddling my enemy on my necromancer. And the skill doesn't perform that well either. I shouldn't have made frostfang. Underwhelming legendary with an underwhelming axe animation. Unholy feast is slow with an added effect that doesn't come up all that often. On a profession with tones of access to boom strip and corrupt, corrupt boon doesn't stand out. Not only that it's one of the more self damaging corruption skills. Hmm? Did I miss an update with this skill? But 75% sounds like a bug if that's true. But you also claimed dessicate did that, which it doesn't so you might be reading into it wrong. Well of darkness has a long cool down and is the weakest well. It's one moment to shine was a janky build using chilling darkness which was patched almost instantly. Dessicate gives 10% life force no matter what you do. It's a slow skill with a massive tell, low might stacks and short range. It is not a good skill by any stretch of the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Matt H.6142" said: > Revenant - Ive never touched the heals on incoming damage, condi or physical. The staff orb, taunt/retaliation improvements don’t seem that impactful, and momentary pacification doesn’t fit some elites. you talking about the herold heal? just because you dont use it doesnt mean its never used, pretty much every single rev in wvw is using that one as main source of healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Hiya! Sorry for a late update, but had a busy weekend! Anyway, the list has been updated accordingly. Some people's feedback was unusable if it would only focus on PvE or just be way too general (I can't do anything with "the whole earth line on Elementalist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasoki.5180 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 **Guardian** Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise: 1. "Retreat" 2. "Stand Your Ground" 3. "Hold the Line" Mantras: 1. Mantra of Truth Weapons - Shield: 1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement Traits: 1. Focus Master 2. Communal Defenses 3. Tenacious Defense 4. Inner Fire 5. Zealous Scepter 6. Shattered Aegis 7. Empowering Might 8. Pure of Voice 9. Retaliatory Subconscious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > -SNIP- > > Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it. > > > > * Signets of Suffering > The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though. Doesn't do enough and actually makes plague signet a self-destruction skill. It should have at least positive effect not negative. > > * Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.) > Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here. > > * Deadly Strength > Is fine. > > * Corrupter's Fervor > The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list. Doesn't even have synergy with deadly strength. > > * Unholy Sanctuary > Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier. Deathmagic as a whole is the most useless traitline in the whole game of any classes... > > * Banshee's Wail > This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness. There are better ways for swiftness than this shitty trait. Not to mention that it just gets outclassed by vp > > * Rending Claws > Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill. Huge aftercast > > * Unholy Feast > Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely. Way to slow for the effect it does. > > * Corrupt Boon (Arguable.) > Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault. It's fine i guess, but only mentionable in gvgs > > * Spectral Grasp > Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF. But shouldn't be outrunnable. As every class except necro has enough movement for that > > * Well of Darkness > Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells. Well of darkness definetly is the weakest of the wells, that's why nobody plays it ever > > * Dessicate > Same thing as with Corrupt Boon. Could use some spice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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