Taygus.4571 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:) > > Maybe a hot join function on story instances? I dunno. I was just giving other options without needing to rely on gimmicks that potentially ruin it for other people. > I suggested this before...It was laughed away and suggested to use LFG..which can take forever go fill. It doesn't deal with yhe problem that some instances don't really benefit from more players. Btw rez rushing...does make it more painless. (Although I don't die over and over and over)..but lacking a difficulty setting..this is definitly painless compared to constantly resetting and possibly never actually getting through the instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > This is one of those things that, I'm not sure that the players who hate the idea necessarily know best. I'm going to reference a moment here, where [Dawko beats 50/20 mode in Ultimate Custom Night]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLu6IFPK6eQ&t=270s") and is brought to tears over his achievement. I mean, just look at that. I bet most people haven't been this happy in their entire lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beating the bosses in harder games (a la Cuphead) feels great, but it only feels great if there's an actual challenge in beating them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speak for yourself here. Not everyone enjoys that level of challenge. I don't game to feel proud of my e-skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. One of my all time favourite games to play and replay is Fable:TLC. There's nothing challenging about that game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > I despised the finally HoT story instance for example. > > > > > > > I also don't like that an instance often takes longer than 20-30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this crowd continues to grow and LW popularity continues to fall, that's not good for ANet. > > > > > > > > > > > > This post doesn't make sense. If you're already not playing the LW Stories with the corpse rush system, then how is putting in the reset system going to affect you? Besides, what I put up is common to human nature. > > > > > > > > > > "Mostly " .. I play the ones I have to. Like the steps to get the beetle. > > > > > > > > > > "Human nature"... I beat Liadri, first time round. It was hell. I didn't feel joy at beating her. Merely relief. To the point, I promised myself I'd never put myself through such again. > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone feels joy at beating a virtual challenge. For some the frustration leading to that point. lingers and leaves a bitter taste instead. > > > > > > > > Look, everything in the game is some form of virtual challenge. If you go "woe is me" every time you go down, then you're not doing it right. Stop framing it in your head that way, and the problem goes away. You're not immune to achievement, you've just attached a disproportionate amount of lament toward effort. > > > > > > Or you could accept that humans are not all the same and don't derive happiness from the same things? > > > > > > > No, deriving happiness from success and achievement is as universal as the desire to eat food. So much so that it is the basis to how the entire videogame industry functions. Or are you telling me that when you play Mario, you just jump in place for hours on end because you don't care for the achievement of jumping over gaps? > > *sigh*. > One more time and that's me out. > > You refuse to understand that thd work involved affects enjoyment of any success. > I... get this.. I ..me. You can argue against it all you like but I am telling you how it makes ME feel. > > The Liadri fight made me feel bad...not good. Feel bad at spending so long on it. At the frustration I felt attempting it. Succeeding didnt feel good. It felt pointless. > This is the same with the story. When I finally soloed the hearts and minds. I didn't feel proud or excited or happy.. I was just glad that it was over it. The work involved wasnt "worth" the success. (and then of course I dc'd which was the major nail in the coffin for story, but I'm explaining my feelings before dc-ing). > > It's like working your kitten off for half minium wage when you could get a job somewhere else. It's not worth it and you're not going to be happy to get that paycheck when you could've done something else more worthwhile with your time. > > Difficult content (that is content that's personally challenging ) does not bring me joy. > > I much prefer playing the races.. they aren't difficult. They're stress free a dc that brings me joy to finish. > > Don't argue...try to understand that not everyone feels the same way or reacts the same. > Why do you think there are such a range of games...from simple to punishing..from calm to hectic. > > This isn't merely about succeeding.. It's that some successes are not worth it and are more bitter than joyful. > Can you understand the difference? My point is that you're wrong for feeling this way, and should accept that the refight system would overall be better for everyone, even if it negatively affects your particularly obtuse personality. I've heard all of this stuff before. Back when I was active in runescape, it was like pulling teeth getting anything done. No matter how sound or practical a suggestion is, it will be shouted down by bizarre and broken individuals. "Plz don't put stuff in the wilderness, I have PTSD and am emotionally incapable of handling being attacked by another player," "Plz don't have spiders, I have arachnophobia and am emotionally incapable of handling spiders," "Plz don't add flickering lights, I have OCPD and it freaks me out if one of the lights is flickering," "Please don't improve this skill, I spent forever getting it to 99 the hard way and now I want everyone else to suffer as I did." Over and over again, any idea is clawed away by individuals with quirks or chips on their shoulders that would rather wallow in their own uniqueness than to re contextualize, improve, or merely accept that a system bad for them would be good for others. You're telling me that you obsessively worked toward a goal that you didn't want in the first place, so hard that it came to your own mental detriment. That is the definition of irrationality. EDIT: I realized this context was missing, so I'll elaborate further. I doubt that even 10% of the claims to PTSD, OCD, X-Phobia, or whatever on the old forum were legitimate. These people just had minor inconveniences or quirks that they would blow out of proportion for leverage in arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aoe madness + horrible camera angles no matter how bigger your screen is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the last fight against Joko, the difficult thing was to stay turning the camera to see where he teleported. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh no i have to look around. The horror. > > > > > > > > > > Let me rephrase what Taygus.4571 and ugrakarma.9416 said to make it easier to understand: > > > > > > > > > > "We do not enjoy the game changing in this way and have lost a significant reason to play GW2." > > > > > > > > > > Your snarky attitude towards players abandoning the game does not help the issue. Especially when this was never the case before. > > > > > > > > "Game changing in this way"? What way? Looking around has been part of the game since lauch and i remember said mechanic being used from back in se2. > > > > > > In a way that the difficulty spikes this much. No looking around franticly has not been part of open world or story design. > > > > > > Please name a single personal story mission or HoT story mission where it was required in order to survive not to mention PoF missions. Even the ones with mechanical boss fights usually kept it simple and focused on a limited area. > > > > > > Here is my take and I'm repeating myself here: > > > if you think that mocking or ignoring a big part of the player base only so you can have your way of fun is your goal, this game won't remain relevant enough for long enough. > > > > > > If you want challenging content, go play raids and fractals and hope enough casual players joon those game modes so that arenanet keeps making content for them. > > > > In se2 u have 2 encounters in ep 7 or w/e one vs centaurs and one vs the asuras and their alert golems in both cases aoes or glomes were all around you and you needed to be in constant awareness of the area around you. > > > > > > Also the mordremoth fight as well had you looking around for rifts and esp for attacks during gliding phase. > > > > Joko has like what? A phase each 25% where u have to use sas and then kill the clones that spawns. The close iirc also spawn in fixed locations so theres that. Joko is by far one of the better and clean fights they"ve put out in recent memory. > > As older gamer im used to "look" around since SNES and all sort of "figure the mechanics" bosses........, but in gw2 is just find me fighting against visual pollution... and joko is easy, but is no exception. > >  > The idea of identifying the priority aoe or mechanic you have to deal with and deal with it at all cost is so hard for you? U show me a pic full of red boxes. I just see the wall and its weak spot. Taking abit of dmg in the process is fine since some dmg> being on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > This is one of those things that, I'm not sure that the players who hate the idea necessarily know best. I'm going to reference a moment here, where [Dawko beats 50/20 mode in Ultimate Custom Night]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLu6IFPK6eQ&t=270s") and is brought to tears over his achievement. I mean, just look at that. I bet most people haven't been this happy in their entire lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beating the bosses in harder games (a la Cuphead) feels great, but it only feels great if there's an actual challenge in beating them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speak for yourself here. Not everyone enjoys that level of challenge. I don't game to feel proud of my e-skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. One of my all time favourite games to play and replay is Fable:TLC. There's nothing challenging about that game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > > I despised the finally HoT story instance for example. > > > > > > > > I also don't like that an instance often takes longer than 20-30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this crowd continues to grow and LW popularity continues to fall, that's not good for ANet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This post doesn't make sense. If you're already not playing the LW Stories with the corpse rush system, then how is putting in the reset system going to affect you? Besides, what I put up is common to human nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mostly " .. I play the ones I have to. Like the steps to get the beetle. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Human nature"... I beat Liadri, first time round. It was hell. I didn't feel joy at beating her. Merely relief. To the point, I promised myself I'd never put myself through such again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone feels joy at beating a virtual challenge. For some the frustration leading to that point. lingers and leaves a bitter taste instead. > > > > > > > > > > Look, everything in the game is some form of virtual challenge. If you go "woe is me" every time you go down, then you're not doing it right. Stop framing it in your head that way, and the problem goes away. You're not immune to achievement, you've just attached a disproportionate amount of lament toward effort. > > > > > > > > Or you could accept that humans are not all the same and don't derive happiness from the same things? > > > > > > > > > > No, deriving happiness from success and achievement is as universal as the desire to eat food. So much so that it is the basis to how the entire videogame industry functions. Or are you telling me that when you play Mario, you just jump in place for hours on end because you don't care for the achievement of jumping over gaps? > > > > *sigh*. > > One more time and that's me out. > > > > You refuse to understand that thd work involved affects enjoyment of any success. > > I... get this.. I ..me. You can argue against it all you like but I am telling you how it makes ME feel. > > > > The Liadri fight made me feel bad...not good. Feel bad at spending so long on it. At the frustration I felt attempting it. Succeeding didnt feel good. It felt pointless. > > This is the same with the story. When I finally soloed the hearts and minds. I didn't feel proud or excited or happy.. I was just glad that it was over it. The work involved wasnt "worth" the success. (and then of course I dc'd which was the major nail in the coffin for story, but I'm explaining my feelings before dc-ing). > > > > It's like working your kitten off for half minium wage when you could get a job somewhere else. It's not worth it and you're not going to be happy to get that paycheck when you could've done something else more worthwhile with your time. > > > > Difficult content (that is content that's personally challenging ) does not bring me joy. > > > > I much prefer playing the races.. they aren't difficult. They're stress free a dc that brings me joy to finish. > > > > Don't argue...try to understand that not everyone feels the same way or reacts the same. > > Why do you think there are such a range of games...from simple to punishing..from calm to hectic. > > > > This isn't merely about succeeding.. It's that some successes are not worth it and are more bitter than joyful. > > Can you understand the difference? > > My point is that you're wrong for feeling this way, and should accept that the refight system would overall be better for everyone, even if it negatively affects your particularly obtuse personality. > > I've heard all of this stuff before. Back when I was active in runescape, it was like pulling teeth getting anything done. No matter how sound or practical a suggestion is, it will be shouted down by bizarre and broken individuals. "Plz don't put stuff in the wilderness, I have PTSD and am emotionally incapable of handling being attacked by another player," "Plz don't have spiders, I have arachnophobia and am emotionally incapable of handling spiders," "Plz don't add flickering lights, I have OCPD and it freaks me out if one of the lights is flickering," "Please don't improve this skill, I spent forever getting it to 99 the hard way and now I want everyone else to suffer as I did." Over and over again, any idea is clawed away by individuals with quirks or chips on their shoulders that would rather wallow in their own uniqueness than to re contextualize, improve, or merely accept that a system bad for them would be good for others. > > You're telling me that you obsessively worked toward a goal that you didn't want in the first place, so hard that it came to your own mental detriment. That is the definition of irrationality. Is he wrong though? Personally dont want to see the fights in the story be any harder than they are. There are people who are only capable of beating them through the way we havein game now, for other reasons besides not being good, and forcing them to group goes against what Anet wants for the story from ever change theve done for it. So i disagree with you on it would be "better" for everyone. It would be better for people who like a challenge, not everyone does. Humans arent the same, they dont get satisfactions from the same thing, and trying to say that hes wrong for not getting a sense of accomplishment from beating something *is* wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhani.5361 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > This is one of those things that, I'm not sure that the players who hate the idea necessarily know best. I'm going to reference a moment here, where [Dawko beats 50/20 mode in Ultimate Custom Night]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLu6IFPK6eQ&t=270s") and is brought to tears over his achievement. I mean, just look at that. I bet most people haven't been this happy in their entire lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beating the bosses in harder games (a la Cuphead) feels great, but it only feels great if there's an actual challenge in beating them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speak for yourself here. Not everyone enjoys that level of challenge. I don't game to feel proud of my e-skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. One of my all time favourite games to play and replay is Fable:TLC. There's nothing challenging about that game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > I despised the finally HoT story instance for example. > > > > > > > I also don't like that an instance often takes longer than 20-30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this crowd continues to grow and LW popularity continues to fall, that's not good for ANet. > > > > > > > > > > > > This post doesn't make sense. If you're already not playing the LW Stories with the corpse rush system, then how is putting in the reset system going to affect you? Besides, what I put up is common to human nature. > > > > > > > > > > "Mostly " .. I play the ones I have to. Like the steps to get the beetle. > > > > > > > > > > "Human nature"... I beat Liadri, first time round. It was hell. I didn't feel joy at beating her. Merely relief. To the point, I promised myself I'd never put myself through such again. > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone feels joy at beating a virtual challenge. For some the frustration leading to that point. lingers and leaves a bitter taste instead. > > > > > > > > Look, everything in the game is some form of virtual challenge. If you go "woe is me" every time you go down, then you're not doing it right. Stop framing it in your head that way, and the problem goes away. You're not immune to achievement, you've just attached a disproportionate amount of lament toward effort. > > > > > > Or you could accept that humans are not all the same and don't derive happiness from the same things? > > > > > > > No, deriving happiness from success and achievement is as universal as the desire to eat food. So much so that it is the basis to how the entire videogame industry functions. Or are you telling me that when you play Mario, you just jump in place for hours on end because you don't care for the achievement of jumping over gaps? > > *sigh*. > One more time and that's me out. > > You refuse to understand that thd work involved affects enjoyment of any success. > I... get this.. I ..me. You can argue against it all you like but I am telling you how it makes ME feel. > > The Liadri fight made me feel bad...not good. Feel bad at spending so long on it. At the frustration I felt attempting it. Succeeding didnt feel good. It felt pointless. > This is the same with the story. When I finally soloed the hearts and minds. I didn't feel proud or excited or happy.. I was just glad that it was over it. The work involved wasnt "worth" the success. (and then of course I dc'd which was the major nail in the coffin for story, but I'm explaining my feelings before dc-ing). > > It's like working your kitten off for half minium wage when you could get a job somewhere else. It's not worth it and you're not going to be happy to get that paycheck when you could've done something else more worthwhile with your time. > > Difficult content (that is content that's personally challenging ) does not bring me joy. > > I much prefer playing the races.. they aren't difficult. They're stress free a dc that brings me joy to finish. > > Don't argue...try to understand that not everyone feels the same way or reacts the same. > Why do you think there are such a range of games...from simple to punishing..from calm to hectic. > > This isn't merely about succeeding.. It's that some successes are not worth it and are more bitter than joyful. > Can you understand the difference? Well, FWIW, you're not alone. I feel exactly the same way about video games. They're there for fun, and when something edges into frustration territory, I feel absolutely zero satisfaction for having "beaten" it. Instead, there's a palpable feeling of relief. Those endorphins you get from getting punched in the face over and over are intended for pain relief, not as happy fun pills. Once those wear off, you're still bruised. Probably still irritated. I haven't touched anything beyond the first few map-unlock instances of LW S3 because the fights are long, tedious, and just generally stressful. They're acts of pure reflex. I got through them mostly without dying once, but that's hardly a cause for celebration. And there's no worthwhile story reward to make them feel "worth it." So the feeling once the relief is over is that punched-in-the-face bruising. It's not good. It's vapid and annoying. Real satisfaction comes from solving real problems in the real world, learning something new and/or passing knowledge on, helping others solve real world problems. Doing something new you didn't know you could and uncovering *real* capacities. Video games are only virtual. They're entertainment, and maybe fodder for creativity at the better end (IMHO), but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Dante.1763" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > > This is one of those things that, I'm not sure that the players who hate the idea necessarily know best. I'm going to reference a moment here, where [Dawko beats 50/20 mode in Ultimate Custom Night]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLu6IFPK6eQ&t=270s") and is brought to tears over his achievement. I mean, just look at that. I bet most people haven't been this happy in their entire lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beating the bosses in harder games (a la Cuphead) feels great, but it only feels great if there's an actual challenge in beating them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speak for yourself here. Not everyone enjoys that level of challenge. I don't game to feel proud of my e-skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. One of my all time favourite games to play and replay is Fable:TLC. There's nothing challenging about that game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > > > I despised the finally HoT story instance for example. > > > > > > > > > I also don't like that an instance often takes longer than 20-30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this crowd continues to grow and LW popularity continues to fall, that's not good for ANet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This post doesn't make sense. If you're already not playing the LW Stories with the corpse rush system, then how is putting in the reset system going to affect you? Besides, what I put up is common to human nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mostly " .. I play the ones I have to. Like the steps to get the beetle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Human nature"... I beat Liadri, first time round. It was hell. I didn't feel joy at beating her. Merely relief. To the point, I promised myself I'd never put myself through such again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone feels joy at beating a virtual challenge. For some the frustration leading to that point. lingers and leaves a bitter taste instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, everything in the game is some form of virtual challenge. If you go "woe is me" every time you go down, then you're not doing it right. Stop framing it in your head that way, and the problem goes away. You're not immune to achievement, you've just attached a disproportionate amount of lament toward effort. > > > > > > > > > > Or you could accept that humans are not all the same and don't derive happiness from the same things? > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, deriving happiness from success and achievement is as universal as the desire to eat food. So much so that it is the basis to how the entire videogame industry functions. Or are you telling me that when you play Mario, you just jump in place for hours on end because you don't care for the achievement of jumping over gaps? > > > > > > *sigh*. > > > One more time and that's me out. > > > > > > You refuse to understand that thd work involved affects enjoyment of any success. > > > I... get this.. I ..me. You can argue against it all you like but I am telling you how it makes ME feel. > > > > > > The Liadri fight made me feel bad...not good. Feel bad at spending so long on it. At the frustration I felt attempting it. Succeeding didnt feel good. It felt pointless. > > > This is the same with the story. When I finally soloed the hearts and minds. I didn't feel proud or excited or happy.. I was just glad that it was over it. The work involved wasnt "worth" the success. (and then of course I dc'd which was the major nail in the coffin for story, but I'm explaining my feelings before dc-ing). > > > > > > It's like working your kitten off for half minium wage when you could get a job somewhere else. It's not worth it and you're not going to be happy to get that paycheck when you could've done something else more worthwhile with your time. > > > > > > Difficult content (that is content that's personally challenging ) does not bring me joy. > > > > > > I much prefer playing the races.. they aren't difficult. They're stress free a dc that brings me joy to finish. > > > > > > Don't argue...try to understand that not everyone feels the same way or reacts the same. > > > Why do you think there are such a range of games...from simple to punishing..from calm to hectic. > > > > > > This isn't merely about succeeding.. It's that some successes are not worth it and are more bitter than joyful. > > > Can you understand the difference? > > > > My point is that you're wrong for feeling this way, and should accept that the refight system would overall be better for everyone, even if it negatively affects your particularly obtuse personality. > > > > I've heard all of this stuff before. Back when I was active in runescape, it was like pulling teeth getting anything done. No matter how sound or practical a suggestion is, it will be shouted down by bizarre and broken individuals. "Plz don't put stuff in the wilderness, I have PTSD and am emotionally incapable of handling being attacked by another player," "Plz don't have spiders, I have arachnophobia and am emotionally incapable of handling spiders," "Plz don't add flickering lights, I have OCPD and it freaks me out if one of the lights is flickering," "Please don't improve this skill, I spent forever getting it to 99 the hard way and now I want everyone else to suffer as I did." Over and over again, any idea is clawed away by individuals with quirks or chips on their shoulders that would rather wallow in their own uniqueness than to re contextualize, improve, or merely accept that a system bad for them would be good for others. > > > > You're telling me that you obsessively worked toward a goal that you didn't want in the first place, so hard that it came to your own mental detriment. That is the definition of irrationality. > > Is he wrong though? > > Personally dont want to see the fights in the story be any harder than they are. There are people who are only capable of beating them through the way we havein game now, for other reasons besides not being good, and forcing them to group goes against what Anet wants for the story from ever change theve done for it. > > So i disagree with you on it would be "better" for everyone. It would be better for people who like a challenge, not everyone does. Humans arent the same, they dont get satisfactions from the same thing, and trying to say that hes wrong for not getting a sense of accomplishment from beating something *is* wrong. I would say he is. He doesn't want a refight system in content that he won't even play as it stands now. A system that exists everywhere else in the entire game and works perfectly. His reasoning for this is that he has attached a disproportionate amount of loathing toward effort. Delayed gratification is a key feature of a healthy, functioning adult, and if a person responds to mild amounts of effort with "Oh woe is me," then that is a sign that something is wrong. What exactly does he do in this game all day? Does he loath this cursed world every time a champion spawns? Does he skulk around avoiding the veteran mobs that might have a chance to kill him? Does he avoid jumping puzzles for fear of falling? Does he only participate in zergs where he hangs back at maximum range? If he earns gold for something, what is it spent on? I mean, we're talking about a game where failure forces a reset in nearly every case, where something even as mundane as exploration entails risk. He's been in this game for years, all of the encounters he says are too hard should be tiddly winks by now. I didn't even beat Liadri the first time around, so how is it that this person is having an existential terror over story instance fights which are an order of magnitude easier than the first Liadri fight? I think you're misunderstanding me here. The part he quoted is taken out of context. I don't want to make the fights harder or more challenging. The key to feeling success is the potential to feel failure. The argument for corpse rushing sounds more like lamentation than like sound game design. Making a hard fight you can't actually lose to is both frustrating and condescending, giving you the worst of both world. It is better to have a system that respects the player, even if you have to tweak some of the fights to be easier, than the system we have now. Quick refights would produce good things for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 The only way a refight system is going to work is if it is optional. Anet can't afford to lock out many thousands of players from the story and new story maps and that is exactly what will happen if they instituted a non-optional refight system. I think it would be a terrible business decision for Anet to institute this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Even in what's considered hard content, all you do is stack and spam everything on CD. All pve content in gw2 doesn't teach you how to properly play it. There no such thing as kiting and repositioning. Only stack and spam. Pretty poor design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > This is one of those things that, I'm not sure that the players who hate the idea necessarily know best. I'm going to reference a moment here, where [Dawko beats 50/20 mode in Ultimate Custom Night]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLu6IFPK6eQ&t=270s") and is brought to tears over his achievement. I mean, just look at that. I bet most people haven't been this happy in their entire lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beating the bosses in harder games (a la Cuphead) feels great, but it only feels great if there's an actual challenge in beating them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speak for yourself here. Not everyone enjoys that level of challenge. I don't game to feel proud of my e-skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. One of my all time favourite games to play and replay is Fable:TLC. There's nothing challenging about that game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm part of the crowd that mostly no longer plays LW Stories. I find the difficulty unenjoyable.. and mostly AoE madness. I tend to die to the bosses a couple times and I for one was glad they didn't reset. > > > > > > > > I despised the finally HoT story instance for example. > > > > > > > > I also don't like that an instance often takes longer than 20-30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this crowd continues to grow and LW popularity continues to fall, that's not good for ANet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This post doesn't make sense. If you're already not playing the LW Stories with the corpse rush system, then how is putting in the reset system going to affect you? Besides, what I put up is common to human nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mostly " .. I play the ones I have to. Like the steps to get the beetle. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Human nature"... I beat Liadri, first time round. It was hell. I didn't feel joy at beating her. Merely relief. To the point, I promised myself I'd never put myself through such again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone feels joy at beating a virtual challenge. For some the frustration leading to that point. lingers and leaves a bitter taste instead. > > > > > > > > > > Look, everything in the game is some form of virtual challenge. If you go "woe is me" every time you go down, then you're not doing it right. Stop framing it in your head that way, and the problem goes away. You're not immune to achievement, you've just attached a disproportionate amount of lament toward effort. > > > > > > > > Or you could accept that humans are not all the same and don't derive happiness from the same things? > > > > > > > > > > No, deriving happiness from success and achievement is as universal as the desire to eat food. So much so that it is the basis to how the entire videogame industry functions. Or are you telling me that when you play Mario, you just jump in place for hours on end because you don't care for the achievement of jumping over gaps? > > > > *sigh*. > > One more time and that's me out. > > > > You refuse to understand that thd work involved affects enjoyment of any success. > > I... get this.. I ..me. You can argue against it all you like but I am telling you how it makes ME feel. > > > > The Liadri fight made me feel bad...not good. Feel bad at spending so long on it. At the frustration I felt attempting it. Succeeding didnt feel good. It felt pointless. > > This is the same with the story. When I finally soloed the hearts and minds. I didn't feel proud or excited or happy.. I was just glad that it was over it. The work involved wasnt "worth" the success. (and then of course I dc'd which was the major nail in the coffin for story, but I'm explaining my feelings before dc-ing). > > > > It's like working your kitten off for half minium wage when you could get a job somewhere else. It's not worth it and you're not going to be happy to get that paycheck when you could've done something else more worthwhile with your time. > > > > Difficult content (that is content that's personally challenging ) does not bring me joy. > > > > I much prefer playing the races.. they aren't difficult. They're stress free a dc that brings me joy to finish. > > > > Don't argue...try to understand that not everyone feels the same way or reacts the same. > > Why do you think there are such a range of games...from simple to punishing..from calm to hectic. > > > > This isn't merely about succeeding.. It's that some successes are not worth it and are more bitter than joyful. > > Can you understand the difference? > > My point is that you're wrong for feeling this way, and should accept that the refight system would overall be better for everyone, even if it negatively affects your particularly obtuse personality. > > I've heard all of this stuff before. Back when I was active in runescape, it was like pulling teeth getting anything done. No matter how sound or practical a suggestion is, it will be shouted down by bizarre and broken individuals. "Plz don't put stuff in the wilderness, I have PTSD and am emotionally incapable of handling being attacked by another player," "Plz don't have spiders, I have arachnophobia and am emotionally incapable of handling spiders," "Plz don't add flickering lights, I have OCPD and it freaks me out if one of the lights is flickering," "Please don't improve this skill, I spent forever getting it to 99 the hard way and now I want everyone else to suffer as I did." Over and over again, any idea is clawed away by individuals with quirks or chips on their shoulders that would rather wallow in their own uniqueness than to re contextualize, improve, or merely accept that a system bad for them would be good for others. > > You're telling me that you obsessively worked toward a goal that you didn't want in the first place, so hard that it came to your own mental detriment. That is the definition of irrationality. > > EDIT: I realized this context was missing, so I'll elaborate further. I doubt that even 10% of the claims to PTSD, OCD, X-Phobia, or whatever on the old forum were legitimate. These people just had minor inconveniences or quirks that they would blow out of proportion for leverage in arguments. Clearly I'm not wrong. ANet knows their stats. Rezing is new. They know why people aren't completing the story. They added it... surely to encourage more people to complete the story. There are people who perhaps couldn't, otherwise. You're tryingto claim that these people would be better off being unable to progress altogether? That's better for them? for Anet as whole? Youre completely refusing to understand the other side of things. Also a person can never be wrong for how they personally feel. Feelings are what they are. And I didn't obsessively work on Liadri. But that doesn't change that I didn't enjoy defeating her. I'm finished here. You simply can't understand that not everyone fits the perfect boxes you've created for them. And not everyone shares nor would benefit from your preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuinetheo.6591 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Just to put things in perspective for some people: You're talking about taking a very well oiled machine and rebuilding using more complex, moving parts and other gadgets so that a typical layman would not be able to oil the machine properly. You're going to see more failed/restarted missions than you ever have during your early fractal days. And it's going to frustrate you to no end. This Boss Blitz event? Not even comparable. The first time an entire **map meta** fails you're going to see the "Let's move you to another instance because everyone has just left" notification -- a lot. Then what? Now you have to wait another 2 hours for your map meta to spawn. Maybe the next map you enter won't fail it right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > I would say he is. He doesn't want a refight system in content that he won't even play as it stands now. A system that exists everywhere else in the entire game and works perfectly. His reasoning for this is that he has attached a disproportionate amount of loathing toward effort. Delayed gratification is a key feature of a healthy, functioning adult, and if a person responds to mild amounts of effort with "Oh woe is me," then that is a sign that something is wrong. Firstly... It's mild effort to you. Secondly it's effort in a video game...not life here. This isn't about instant gratification. Where are you coming up with that? It's about the very likely possibly of not completing the story instance at all. That's not delayed... that's never. I'm not going to further explain how people want different things from a **video game **. > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > What exactly does he do in this game all day? Does he loath this cursed world every time a champion spawns? Does he skulk around avoiding the veteran mobs that might have a chance to kill him? Does he avoid jumping puzzles for fear of falling? Does he only participate in zergs where he hangs back at maximum range? If he earns gold for something, what is it spent on? I mean, we're talking about a game where failure forces a reset in nearly every case, where something even as mundane as exploration entails risk. He's been in this game for years, all of the encounters he says are too hard should be tiddly winks by now. I didn't even beat Liadri the first time around, so how is it that this person is having an existential terror over story instance fights which are an order of magnitude easier than the first Liadri fight? You can ask me, you know. Without the passive aggressiveness. :) I play mostly open world. I play WvW, I'm not very good at it but it's still fun. I play Tier2 fractals currently. I don't find that difficult. I'm currently spending lots of time in the festival. Not the gauntlet mind. I have no intention of trying that this year. If a champ shows up... I don't solo it.. Usually other people turn up...or I run. :) I sometimes avoid some veteran mobs, but it doesn't require "skulking". I often take portals for jumping puzzles, yes :) But sometimes I don't mind giving them a try. I've been getting better at them since last wintersday. I do enjoy zerg content. I'm not always at range. I can dodge :). but at times it's difficult to see anything but a blur. My gold is spent on gems and saving towards ascended gear. Dying in open world, does not wipe all your progress of exploring tbe map. Dying at a world boss does not wipe your progress. Why shouldn't stories be the same? In fact they should be the same, so that you don't lock thousanda of people out of the new maps. That wouldn't be a good business model for Anet. I beat Liadri years ago. My health has declined. I find it difficult to react as quick. There also seems to be an increase in random AoEs. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > (This is about lw since instanced pve content in the form or raids and fractals dont do this.) > > It really feels kitten that you can basically go up to a god, a dragon, an undead lich, die a bunch of times and still complete the instance. > > Dont get me wrong i got no issue woth someone dying alot at a fight, getting familiar with it, maybe changing his/her build to make the fight easier for him/her and then beating it. > > Thats not what is happening tho. You dont have to go through all that, u can just respawn and continue auto attacking the boss, die, repeat. The boss doesnt reset, u dont fail the mission, its just a weird experience of you breaking all your armor while a boss with a never refilling healthbar stands there, w8ing for you to kill it. > I dont think ppl that experience this like it particularly. > > > I dont think for what is worth that dying at this point should mean mission failed. Instances are weird and theres not always checkpoints and ppl would be mad. But i think that the fight should at least reset, with you startind again from outside the boss room with an anvil and the boss fully healed. > > I think ppl would apreciate the fights more that way and i believe that such important lore moments deserve more than being res rushed. > > Just my two cents on how anet has handle expansion and lw climactic fights. Basically LS is supposed to be soloable otherwise it will turn a lot of players away from the game. Problem comes in profession balance, since every profession has its ups and downs there are those that have a huge advantage in solo fights (necros and rangers) and those that work best with a friend (elementalist and theif). I'd prefer Mercenaries that you can choose to join you in the fight meaning no player has to solo it. Seriously we're commander's where's our muscle? It's not the rag tag group we get for only part of it, we should have a fulltime bodyguard that assists us each time we solo LS instances. Preferably one we assemble based upon what assistance we want from healer to tank. It would make sense and wouldn't always turn into a die fest on the last boss, need I remind of the utter frustration of Lake Doric's end boss. He couldn't be beat on release for many professions due to bugs coupled with high damage. Basically all professions aren't equal and making something unkillable when the next LS relies on continuing the LS you're playing means players would also lose out on the continuing story. So for the devs and players (customers) limited access to this would be detrimental. Lastly it's not a raid, and for good reasons. There are people who can't raid due to hardware, it wouldn't be fair for those who support the game to be excluded from content just because their computer isn't up to snuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Chocolate.5870 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Taygus.4571" said: > ANet knows their stats. Rezing is new. They know why people aren't completing the story. > They added it... surely to encourage more people to complete the story. Resing has been in all story instances (not just boss battles) at least since the beta. I think the Mordremoth battle is the only one that resets the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > Resing has been in all story instances (not just boss battles) at least since the beta. I think the Mordremoth battle is the only one that resets the boss. > Not in the same way. There's been a couple that reset if you don't get back to them quick enough. LW2 bosses reset IIRC. PoF from what I've noticed is where they brought in rezzing during the fight so that you didn't actually die. Could be wrong of course, just what I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Chocolate.5870 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > Resing has been in all story instances (not just boss battles) at least since the beta. I think the Mordremoth battle is the only one that resets the boss. > > > > Not in the same way. > There's been a couple that reset if you don't get back to them quick enough. LW2 bosses reset IIRC. > > PoF from what I've noticed is where they brought in rezzing during the fight so that you didn't actually die. > > Could be wrong of course, just what I recall. I'm sure that the Shadow of the Dragon in [The World Summit](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_World_Summit "The World Summit") in LW2 doesn't (or at least didn't) reset. I distinctly remember playing that instance after a fairly long absence from the game, and I'd forgotten about dodging, so I died a lot! Maybe we're thinking of different things though - I'm meaning the "retry from a checkpoint" option that actually resurrects you without resetting anything. But in the battle against the golem boss at the end of [A Kindness Repaid](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Kindness_Repaid "A Kindness Repaid"), I think it resurrects you automatically in the place where you died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > (This is about lw since instanced pve content in the form or raids and fractals dont do this.) > > > > It really feels kitten that you can basically go up to a god, a dragon, an undead lich, die a bunch of times and still complete the instance. > > > > Dont get me wrong i got no issue woth someone dying alot at a fight, getting familiar with it, maybe changing his/her build to make the fight easier for him/her and then beating it. > > > > Thats not what is happening tho. You dont have to go through all that, u can just respawn and continue auto attacking the boss, die, repeat. The boss doesnt reset, u dont fail the mission, its just a weird experience of you breaking all your armor while a boss with a never refilling healthbar stands there, w8ing for you to kill it. > > I dont think ppl that experience this like it particularly. > > > > > > I dont think for what is worth that dying at this point should mean mission failed. Instances are weird and theres not always checkpoints and ppl would be mad. But i think that the fight should at least reset, with you startind again from outside the boss room with an anvil and the boss fully healed. > > > > I think ppl would apreciate the fights more that way and i believe that such important lore moments deserve more than being res rushed. > > > > Just my two cents on how anet has handle expansion and lw climactic fights. > > Basically LS is supposed to be soloable otherwise it will turn a lot of players away from the game. Problem comes in profession balance, since every profession has its ups and downs there are those that have a huge advantage in solo fights (necros and rangers) and those that work best with a friend (elementalist and theif). I'd prefer Mercenaries that you can choose to join you in the fight meaning no player has to solo it. Seriously we're commander's where's our muscle? It's not the rag tag group we get for only part of it, we should have a fulltime bodyguard that assists us each time we solo LS instances. Preferably one we assemble based upon what assistance we want from healer to tank. It would make sense and wouldn't always turn into a die fest on the last boss, need I remind of the utter frustration of Lake Doric's end boss. He couldn't be beat on release for many professions due to bugs coupled with high damage. Basically all professions aren't equal and making something unkillable when the next LS relies on continuing the LS you're playing means players would also lose out on the continuing story. So for the devs and players (customers) limited access to this would be detrimental. > > Lastly it's not a raid, and for good reasons. There are people who can't raid due to hardware, it wouldn't be fair for those who support the game to be excluded from content just because their computer isn't up to snuff. The problem ppl have with encounters arent profession based. Every profession can beat lw encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > @"Taygus.4571" said: > > > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > > Resing has been in all story instances (not just boss battles) at least since the beta. I think the Mordremoth battle is the only one that resets the boss. > > > > > > > Not in the same way. > > There's been a couple that reset if you don't get back to them quick enough. LW2 bosses reset IIRC. > > > > PoF from what I've noticed is where they brought in rezzing during the fight so that you didn't actually die. > > > > Could be wrong of course, just what I recall. > > I'm sure that the Shadow of the Dragon in [The World Summit](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_World_Summit "The World Summit") in LW2 doesn't (or at least didn't) reset. I distinctly remember playing that instance after a fairly long absence from the game, and I'd forgotten about dodging, so I died a lot! Maybe we're thinking of different things though - I'm meaning the "retry from a checkpoint" option that actually resurrects you without resetting anything. But in the battle against the golem boss at the end of [A Kindness Repaid](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Kindness_Repaid "A Kindness Repaid"), I think it resurrects you automatically in the place where you died. Tbe checkpoint ia different. It restarts the fight. PoF and LW4, rez mid fight so that you don't die. Meaning there's no restarting at all. Or if you die.. You're automatically rezzed and can continue the fight as if nothing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg.3629 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 this is really a conflict that cannot be solved. It is a conflict of joy/fullfilment vs. entertainment. When games became mainstream, they attracted people who want entertainment. For them, it would not matter, watching netflix, watching an, no idea what "casuals" would listen to, Ed Sheeran concert on youtube, playing a computer game, it is all the same. That is ok, but totally opposed to another kind of player. Overcoming challenges, obstacles, grinding your teeth on something till you make it, that offers a totally different experience, real joy. So for them, it is the rush of emotional ups and downs. Both types really don´t go together well. But make no mistake, latter are a, well, perhaps not dying breed, but rapidly ousted kind. Money is on the entertainment side, so expect games to become even more of a passive experience that gives only the semblance of being relevant to the outcome. I am past criticizing this, it is fine, it is what it is. Democratizing art has always meant the death of art. No point in lamenting it, that is the way of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 The truth is that different people play games for different reasons. The greater the difference between player motivations, the less likely the same content will be to fulfill those desires. That's why ANet offers different experiences via the three game modes and with a variety of different content in PvE. The two PvP modes even offer a somewhat different experience within a restricted context depending on what role one chooses to play (e.g., zerg v. havoc v. scout in WvW). It should be no secret that the persistent world large-scale events are the main event in GW2. The lack of same in PoF maps triggered one of the most common forum complaints. Solo players get exploration. Challenge players get harder, instanced content. To be fair, the likelihood that such players play a lot means that the game does not throw _enough_ such content their way. Story instances, though, seem to be aimed at as broad a demographic as possible. That's probably why they do not contain the boss reset mechanic used in harder instanced content. People who think games are universally about challenge have apparently never looked at Farmville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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