LazySummer.2568 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said: > The fun part about this is that ,,If" dev's payed any attention ele would have the best build diversity in the game ( at least in ranked): > > -Got Necro but no support for him in team? Go tempest healbot! Instead tempest needs firebrand to stay alive...what a meme.... > -Team with zero thief/Mesmer? Go fresh core/weaver for burst! Oh wait since ,,FA patch" everything FA related extincted. > -Nobody to deal with side nodes? Go sw/something weaver...and here actually can't complain. > > Instead we have million of nerfs (more or less) Raid related that choke our build diversity or directly nerf everything useful or with theorycraft potential in pvp. Even fans of meme pvp ele staff builds where punched. Like for what reason we needed Elements of rage rework in pvp? Why only pvp balance team only does skill splits? > > I really really would like to see finally dev playing ele in pvp...actually playing...and see him facing same questions as we do...what should we do with class? it's quite funny that i cant recall the last time a change for ele meant for pve was split to prevent it from affecting pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksn.7264 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"eksn.7264" said: > > > @"kipthelip.5802" said: > > > > @"eksn.7264" said: > > > > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > > > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > > > > > > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > > > > > > > > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > > > > > > > > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. > > > > > > > > I've had to 1v1 you a few times this season I think on spellbreaker and power soulbeast. I could only stalemate you on spellbreaker and you absolutely rekt my soulbeast. Played correctly, weaver is very oppressive on point, but you're also not most ele players. The skill floor to truly be effective on weaver is still a little too high imo, that and something needs to happen with other ele weapons. I don't think it would take much for weaver to overtake spellbreaker as the #1 bruiser (it might already be), just like d/d ele replaced warrior. > > > > > > He is most likely just a better player then you are even though Spell Breaker is better then Weaver he can stalemate you. He has been a part of world class teams in the past when this game had a much large player base and more good players. > > > > Yes I know who he is and yes he’s 100% the better player. I’m not the best warrior, but I’m up there with many thousands of hours with the class. I don’t think even the best warriors have a free win against him though. I still maintain that sword weaver is very close to being the #1 bruiser, if not already if played to the level of Phantaram. It’s a much more balanced spec when it comes to both pushing sides and teamfight participation compared to spellbreaker. > > No. Spellbreaker does have a learning curve too. A weaver should never kill one 1on1 at equal skill level, while the warrior can save lots of CDs. And yes, I played against Vaans and others. > > To be honest, what I could see from Phantarams streams, NA is full of trolling players with weird builds and poor map awareness. Not denying his skill - definitely not! He crushes a lot of his opponents really impressively -, but EU really looks different. Oh I'm not saying weaver beats spellbreaker, what I'm saying is it's much closer than most people think at higher level (aka "ele is trash" when it's clearly not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights a > > > > The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. > > I play about seven classes and I'll take you up on your being able to 1v1 almost anything. >About the team fight part of what you said: I still whole-heartedly disagree. How can you disagree with someones opinion of their own abilities? and especially when they are in the top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizardauz.3761 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 @"Poelala.2830" Mostly agree with your points. Minor things here and there i disagree with. They do have good AoE capabilities, not that all of it is high dmg, but its no less then a Guardian or Mesmer. But comparing damage between them i agree, guardian and mesmer are leagues above. I think the major hurtle balancing the elementalist is also its core class mechanic. The swapping of attunements giving access to a whole new set of skills. 20 Skills minimum (not counting utilities) and 26 if youre weaver. Fundamentally Ele takes Nerfs or Buffs harder then other classes imo. Anet tends to be more on the Heavy-Handed side when it comes to nerfing and very light-finger'd when it comes to buffs. (I mean Shield of Wrath 36sec -> 35sec like wut? I didnt know that skill was underperforming or even needed a buff but this is just hilarious) So taking the bat to "Insert X class here" and then taking the bat to "Elementalist" with the same ferocity hurts it twice as hard. When scourge took the first rounds of nerfs it actually held together pretty well. Sand Savant was hurt hard but wasnt unusable. But my D/D Core Ele is kind of a joke, Tempest not much better, and Weaver in my mind is just a good Duelist in WvW settings by being able to engage/disengage and outlast most classes or run. I get it that the class is suppose to be "High Skill Floor Class" but they usually come with a reward comparatively to its difficulty. But the Balance of a Class cant be based on what the top 99th percentile can do. Idk if this will make much sense on this forums, but thats where you get into the League of Legends' issue with the Champion Ryze. Absolutely abysmal win rate in solo queue, but a competitive scene god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"eksn.7264" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"eksn.7264" said: > > > > @"kipthelip.5802" said: > > > > > @"eksn.7264" said: > > > > > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > > > > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > > > > > > > > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > > > > > > > > > > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. > > > > > > > > > > I've had to 1v1 you a few times this season I think on spellbreaker and power soulbeast. I could only stalemate you on spellbreaker and you absolutely rekt my soulbeast. Played correctly, weaver is very oppressive on point, but you're also not most ele players. The skill floor to truly be effective on weaver is still a little too high imo, that and something needs to happen with other ele weapons. I don't think it would take much for weaver to overtake spellbreaker as the #1 bruiser (it might already be), just like d/d ele replaced warrior. > > > > > > > > He is most likely just a better player then you are even though Spell Breaker is better then Weaver he can stalemate you. He has been a part of world class teams in the past when this game had a much large player base and more good players. > > > > > > Yes I know who he is and yes he’s 100% the better player. I’m not the best warrior, but I’m up there with many thousands of hours with the class. I don’t think even the best warriors have a free win against him though. I still maintain that sword weaver is very close to being the #1 bruiser, if not already if played to the level of Phantaram. It’s a much more balanced spec when it comes to both pushing sides and teamfight participation compared to spellbreaker. > > > > No. Spellbreaker does have a learning curve too. A weaver should never kill one 1on1 at equal skill level, while the warrior can save lots of CDs. And yes, I played against Vaans and others. > > > > To be honest, what I could see from Phantarams streams, NA is full of trolling players with weird builds and poor map awareness. Not denying his skill - definitely not! He crushes a lot of his opponents really impressively -, but EU really looks different. > > Oh I'm not saying weaver beats spellbreaker, what I'm saying is it's much closer than most people think at higher level (aka "ele is trash" when it's clearly not). Ah, okay, yeah, this I can agree with. :) S/D weaver is viable. It is just not as good as others and/or need much mor effort. That spec needs only minor buffs (not nerfs like last patch...). I am way more concerned about build diversity (FA, Tempest, Staff Zerker, etc.). And being ignored for months made me kinda angry, sorry. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyraltia.4185 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Did all of you ever once stop to think ele is finally in a balanced spot and doesn't need buffs it's just everything else needs nerfs to be brought down to their levels? Seriously everything in the game doesn't need to be braindead button mashing 1 shots to be "balanced". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Hyraltia.4185" said: > Did all of you ever once stop to think ele is finally in a balanced spot and doesn't need buffs it's just everything else needs nerfs to be brought down to their levels? Seriously everything in the game doesn't need to be braindead button mashing 1 shots to be "balanced". I think everyone has thought of that, but has also considered Anet's pattern of action in the past. They like to do whatever takes the least amount of work, so it's much more likely for them to buff ele to be on par with the other professions than nerfing all of the other professions to be on par with ele. Plus, once you start talking nerfs, everyone who plays the targeted professions start to fear that they will end up being the underdog like ele is now. (Take mesmers for example. 1 second reduced condition duration on one weapon skill and they act like their profession went from godmode to completely unplayable.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantaram.1265 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"kipthelip.5802" said: > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. > > You are in the top couple of percentage points of players skill wise I think its addled your perception your skill level allowing you to be more effective then most players on better classes. Ele would not be selected for automateds unless the player playing it was known to be so good they could perform better then someone else available on another class or it was friends goofing around. Thats not to say weaver is worthless its just not top tier. So it stands to reason, in my opinion, if a class wouldn't be the first choice for group play in any role it needs buffs of some sort. Does it need some buffs? Yes. Is it Trash? No. I'm disagreeing with it being trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Hyraltia.4185" said: > Did all of you ever once stop to think ele is finally in a balanced spot and doesn't need buffs it's just everything else needs nerfs to be brought down to their levels? Seriously everything in the game doesn't need to be braindead button mashing 1 shots to be "balanced". https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43204/maybe-anet-shouldnt-buff-ele-and-rev#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"kipthelip.5802" said: > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. > > You are in the top couple of percentage points of players skill wise I think its addled your perception your skill level allowing you to be more effective then most players on better classes. Ele would not be selected for automateds unless the player playing it was known to be so good they could perform better then someone else available on another class or it was friends goofing around. Thats not to say weaver is worthless its just not top tier. So it stands to reason, in my opinion, if a class wouldn't be the first choice for group play in any role it needs buffs of some sort. Nah Mender Weaver is top of the line as a sidenoder, especially after the most recent buffs to ele. That's not to say Phanta isn't a top player, he is, but the build works. Having 4 interrupts just from weapon skills, 3 evades from weapon skills, high Vigor uptime from Arcane traits, excellent utilities like [Twist of Fate](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twist_of_Fate "Twist of Fate"), [signet of Restoration](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration "Signet of Restoration") healing you for everything you do, and all of this with the lowest health and armor in the game. Part of what makes it so viable is that Sword skills have low CDs, such as [Riptide](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riptide "Riptide"). Mender Weaver in fact has a favorable matchup that Spellbreaker doesn't: Necro. Having evades for defense instead of blocks and Rousing Resilience makes a huge difference. I've gotten to finals in NA daily ATs with a weaver on my team; it's not as braindead as Spellbreaker for sure, but its survivability is top-tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksn.7264 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 It seems strange to me that a spec with access to this many options still struggles to find a solid place in team comps. I haven't played much weaver so I wouldn't know exacty, but does some of it have to do with how awkward element swapping can be as weaver? What's the consensus within high rank eles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 the only time I play ele is zerk staff in unranked. its a lot of fun if you ele mains get bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"eksn.7264" said: > It seems strange to me that a spec with access to this many options still struggles to find a solid place in team comps. I haven't played much weaver so I wouldn't know exacty, but does some of it have to do with how awkward element swapping can be as weaver? What's the consensus within high rank eles? you may have access to bunch of weapon skills because of attunements, but the traits and utility skills you pretty much have no options other than the same few, good ones. For pvp, Arcane is just so much better than all other lines, 2 useless ones (Fire & Earth), and a line, Water, that serves no purpose other than to clear condis while needing traits from other lines just to work with its condi clear. For utility (6-8) skills most of them are bad -- only cantrips and 2 arcane skills are any decent, none of the signets and conjures are any good, and only 1 glyph (glyph of elemental power) is worth using, and having limited trait line selection also limits the usefulness of these utility skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyNick.4058 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > especially after the most recent buffs to ele. Ele. Was. Not. Buffed. Anet writing "buff" in the patch notes, doesn't magically make it so. They put in a slew of bug fixes that wrecked its condition clear and swiftness stacking, killed it's two most useful kiting abilities (casting water/air and water/earth behind you) and in return, they buffed quantum strike by another 20% or something. We'll ignore the inconsequential buffs to fire 3, because no one ever double attunes for it since that would basically be death and they don't start off with it because it's not as good as quantum strike. 3 and a half massive negatives > than 1.5 slight buffs. It basically gutted the kit. It has less CC cleanse, less swiftness and almost no kiting capabilities. It was a nerf and a pretty heavy one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenix.6198 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"LazySummer.2568" said: > > @"eksn.7264" said: > > It seems strange to me that a spec with access to this many options still struggles to find a solid place in team comps. I haven't played much weaver so I wouldn't know exacty, but does some of it have to do with how awkward element swapping can be as weaver? What's the consensus within high rank eles? > > you may have access to bunch of weapon skills because of attunements, but the traits and utility skills you pretty much have no options other than the same few, good ones. For pvp, Arcane is just so much better than all other lines, 2 useless ones (Fire & Earth), and a line, Water, that serves no purpose other than to clear condis while needing traits from other lines just to work with its condi clear. For utility (6-8) skills most of them are bad -- only cantrips and 2 arcane skills are any decent, none of the signets and conjures are any good, and only 1 glyph (glyph of elemental power) is worth using, and having limited trait line selection also limits the usefulness of these utility skills. 100% agree on the utility part. I personally dont like the water traitline on weaver at all. Healing Ripple is kinda nice to have on weaver I guess since you can just proc it that many more times with a ~4s Cd on attunement swap. But other than that water is kinda meh. Its meant for grp support, but weaver is a very very selfish spec when it comes to healing. Personally I actually prefer earth tbh. With the low attunement swap it just makes it so much smoother to just swap in and out of earth (and getting stoneheart i.e.) to mitigate enemy bursts without feeling locked into that attunement for an eternity. But thats just my personal preference I guess. Still....having only one somewhat interchangeable traitline available (with arcane being a must pick and mainly for defense/utility) weaver specs really lack offensive options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usagi.4835 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"LazySummer.2568" said: > you may have access to bunch of weapon skills because of attunements, but the traits and utility skills you pretty much have no options other than the same few, good ones. For pvp, Arcane is just so much better than all other lines, 2 useless ones (Fire & Earth), and a line, Water, that serves no purpose other than to clear condis while needing traits from other lines just to work with its condi clear. For utility (6-8) skills most of them are bad -- only cantrips and 2 arcane skills are any decent, none of the signets and conjures are any good, and only 1 glyph (glyph of elemental power) is worth using, and having limited trait line selection also limits the usefulness of these utility skills. Don't forget that a lot of the dual skills are just underwhelming/lacklustre. This doesn't apply so much to sword as it does to scepter (water/earth and water/air), dagger and staff (again, water/earth and water/air). God knows why they felt the need to extend staff nerfs into PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"NaturallyNick.4058" said: > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > especially after the most recent buffs to ele. > > Ele. Was. Not. Buffed. Anet writing "buff" in the patch notes, doesn't magically make it so. They put in a slew of bug fixes that wrecked its condition clear and swiftness stacking, killed it's two most useful kiting abilities (casting water/air and water/earth behind you) and in return, they buffed quantum strike by another 20% or something. We'll ignore the inconsequential buffs to fire 3, because no one ever double attunes for it since that would basically be death and they don't start off with it because it's not as good as quantum strike. > > 3 and a half massive negatives > than 1.5 slight buffs. It basically gutted the kit. It has less CC cleanse, less swiftness and almost no kiting capabilities. > > It was a nerf and a pretty heavy one at that. > > * Quantum Strike: Increased lightning bolt damage by 20%. Recharge time has been reduced from 18 seconds to 16 seconds. * Pyro Vortex: Increased the number of pulses from 6 to 8. * Natural Frenzy: Damage has been increased by 33%. This skill will no longer fire at targets behind the elementalist. These are all pretty significant, I left out the less important buffs. I don't know what butt you stuck your head in that 20% and 33% damage buffs are insignificant lol. If you're trying to tell me the patch was a **net** nerf, then maybe you have an argument. But overall this patch was good for Sword weaver, though it was a hard hit to staff eles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derm.4932 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Its very strong against a lot of the B tier builds but seems weak overall because the monkey trio of holo/sb/mirage is stupid overpowered compared to everything else. Nerf holosmith/sb/mirage and weaver will be strong. Tone down some of the rev offhand sword damage too while we're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"NaturallyNick.4058" said: > > > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > > especially after the most recent buffs to ele. > > > > Ele. Was. Not. Buffed. Anet writing "buff" in the patch notes, doesn't magically make it so. They put in a slew of bug fixes that wrecked its condition clear and swiftness stacking, killed it's two most useful kiting abilities (casting water/air and water/earth behind you) and in return, they buffed quantum strike by another 20% or something. We'll ignore the inconsequential buffs to fire 3, because no one ever double attunes for it since that would basically be death and they don't start off with it because it's not as good as quantum strike. > > > > 3 and a half massive negatives > than 1.5 slight buffs. It basically gutted the kit. It has less CC cleanse, less swiftness and almost no kiting capabilities. > > > > It was a nerf and a pretty heavy one at that. > > > > > > * Quantum Strike: Increased lightning bolt damage by 20%. Recharge time has been reduced from 18 seconds to 16 seconds. > * Pyro Vortex: Increased the number of pulses from 6 to 8. > * Natural Frenzy: Damage has been increased by 33%. This skill will no longer fire at targets behind the elementalist. > > These are all pretty significant, I left out the less important buffs. I don't know what butt you stuck your head in that 20% and 33% damage buffs are insignificant lol. If you're trying to tell me the patch was a **net** nerf, then maybe you have an argument. But overall this patch was good for Sword weaver, though it was a hard hit to staff eles. The problem is: * Quantum Strike never saw much use. Even less now that double attuning does not give the boons and is still very dangerous. PVE buff for Elements of Rage. * Pyro Vortex never hits with the vortexes. This is a pure PVE buff. Noone stands in them. * Natural Frenzy doesn't do great damage - but yes, it is okayish. The problem is, now it is easily avoidable. Just moving around on point, people sometimes go behind you and the cast is interrupted. I think every ele player would have prefered the lower damage while being able to cast it behing yourself. On the other hand, shearing edge also does not work behind you. Adding the "bug fix" to not give might, swiftness and regeneration on double attuning, it was a nerf in total. Not a significant one - but still a nerf to an underperforming spec. €: This is only talking about S/D weaver. The additional nerfs to staff and FA and all those are... just weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenix.6198 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I feel like I say complain about this in about every thread, but ele rly needs more mightstacking capabilities and some access to fury from weapon skills. 2 mightstacks from arcane Prowess for ~15 seconds would be a good start. Considering the still rather slow ramp up and the amount of boonrip in the game, I dont think this can be considered OP. Fury on skills like Ride the Lightning (dagger offhand air4). I think it would interact nicely with that skill specifically, since getting the CD reduction from actually hitting the skill would serve a purpose.....and also incentivize people to actually dodge it. Like at least one offhand- and one mainhand-skill for each weaponset respectively should get some sort of fury access. Phoenix/dragon tooth, RtL, Fire Shield (which is useless and need a rework anyway), are all great contenders for something like this imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyNick.4058 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > These are all pretty significant, I left out the less important buffs. If you're trying to tell me the patch was a **net** nerf, then maybe you have an argument. But overall this patch was good for Sword weaver, though it was a hard hit to staff eles. You need to work on your reading comprehension because that's exactly what I said. 1.5 minor buffs, (shearing edge is useless without the cast behind you part, and pyro vortex is almost exclusively a PvE skill). at most the buff wieghs out to 3.5 large nerfs vs 1.5 small nerfs. They buffed things that don't matter, and nerfed things the were the core of the class. **BIG** nerfs outweighing *small* buffs end up as an overall net NERF to sword weaver. The arcane traits they killed were the most important part of Sword Eles kit and overall the patch was a net nerf to sword weavers *in PvP.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. What you say is spot on but...the issue here is not simply a matter of buffs, the inclination of the devs towards this class is rather antagonistic...it may sound silly , it will be considered crazy talk by many but if we look at all evidence here , can you really say that I am wrong with my assumptions? People here are not asking for general buffs or whining because skill X does 20% less dmg,** folks are complaining that the class is virtually unusable outside the sword weaver gimmick which still doesn't count for much** This class has literally nothing to offer anymore, there is no reason to use..and even old try hard "haters" will suggest you to stay away from this class, we're back to pre-celestial time with ele where even you left the game ( 2013-2014) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Phantaram.1265" said: > > I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs! > > > > I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them. > > > > In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue. > > > > This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword. > > What you say is spot on but...the issue here is not simply a matter of buffs, the inclination of the devs towards this class is rather antagonistic...it may sound silly , it will be considered crazy talk by many but if we look at all evidence here , can you really say that I am wrong with my assumptions? > > People here are not asking for general buffs or whining because skill X does 20% less dmg,** folks are complaining that the class is virtually unusable outside the sword weaver gimmick which still doesn't count for much** > > This class has literally nothing to offer anymore, there is no reason to use..and even old try hard "haters" will suggest you to stay away from this class, we're back to pre-celestial time with ele where even you left the game ( 2013-2014) This is very true. Sword weaver still works quite well but they killed FA weaver when they nerfed Plasma Beam. And I understand why they felt the desire to nerf it since it could hit for over 50% of a person's health in less than a second, but the same is relatively true of certain thief builds. That's especially frustrating when ele has less armor and less escapability than thief, yet they still allow deadeye to do amazing damage from 1500 range. Spending their time nerfing an ele build that only works from 900 range shows their priorities are skewed. I really enjoy ele, but it's not worth playing over other sidenoder builds at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im Too Godlike.5629 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Top 20 NA right now playing the oldschool heal tempest with minor tweaks to adjust for the current meta..... tl:dr get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Im Too Godlike.5629" said: > Top 20 NA right now playing the oldschool heal tempest with minor tweaks to adjust for the current meta..... > tl:dr get better tldr how much carrying did you get from the firebrand and necros on your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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