Ele Is Still Trash Btw

[ZeteCommander.4937]

S/D weaver is impossible to kill the target with many condition remove

[bravan.3876]

Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

 

All these way too much dmg and way too much sustain builds need nerfs. Some a bit more than others true (and soulbeast for example clearly needs more nerfs than an Ele) but the meta is so insanely easy and lame, the game got way too noob friendly. Thats why so many good player like Sindrener leave. No competition in all meanings, the only challenge are the lame and carrying builds the low skilled ppl play, not the player themself. So you either play some boring ez stuff yourself or you maybe get rekt by player much worse than you, simply because of build advantage. Both is not rly fun. And with more and more good player leaving you will have lower and lower match quality in ranked and ATs. Anet kisses the dear casual butt a bit too much lately and also give way too less love to their competitive gamemodes. It is so sad to see this high potential game going down so fast lately in PvP and WvW.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

>

> All these way too much dmg and way too much sustain builds need nerfs. Some a bit more than others true (and soulbeast for example clearly needs more nerfs than an Ele) but the meta is so insanely easy and lame, the game got way too noob friendly. Thats why so many good player like Sindrener leave. No competition in all meanings, the only challenge are the lame and carrying builds the low skilled ppl play, not the player themself. So you either play some boring ez stuff yourself or you maybe get rekt by player much worse than you, simply because of build advantage. Both is not rly fun. And with more and more good player leaving you will have lower and lower match quality in ranked and ATs. Anet kisses the dear casual butt a bit too much lately and also give way too less love to their competitive gamemodes. It is so sad to see this high potential game going down so fast lately in PvP and WvW.

 

Pointless wall of text..if you want balance in a MMO then there should be only a single profession for everybody to choose...if you don't want this then tag along with the rest or leave the game, your line of thinking is exactly what destroy the equilibrium of a MMO, rage induced comments for the sake of venting.

 

In the end of the day **we're playing a MMO** and if you want to insist with your "skill talk" then have the decency to leave the game for something that actually requires personal skill to succeed ...**not playing a MMO with 9 different professions and then having a tantrum**

 

Wanna be taken seriously ? Then it's time for people like you to realize that Balance=equal start = same stats for everybody, same skills and same map and not a MMO with several class options at different base HP/armor level

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> S/D weaver is impossible to kill the target with many condition remove

 

Kill it with direct damage. Condis take way too long indeed if it works at all.

 

The problem is not survivability though. It is the lack of damage and group support. In team fights, you can just ignore the weaver and kill off his team. On the side nodes, just sustain and save your cooldowns, he will never drive you off point (yes, depends on skill level and specific build, but that's the general advise).

 

There are some issues with (reliable) condi cleanse only on water and prot only by arcane (for weaver at least, since almost zero auras)... but I don't even expect them to rework the whole class. Just fix S/D **a bit**. And make tempest, FA and stuff **a bit** more viable. For a start. Ele community just didn't get the latest nerfs...

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

> (...)

 

Can you elaborate a bit? Do you not want to buff ele but nerf the other classes? Or do you actually think ele is fine compared to spellbreaker, holosmith, condi mirage? How is ele more braindead than those classes?

 

I'd be fine with nerfing overall sustain and damage on every class/elite spec. But we all know that is impossible for the intern working on PVP. :wink:

 

€: Why was this moved out of the PVP section lol? Asking for buffs is not okay but asking for various nerfs for specific classes is cool?

 

[ZDragon.3046]

10 months of being ok and not super good vs the 4 years ele had of being pretty darn good...... cant say i feel bad for ele

[Kako.1930]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> 10 months of being ok and not super good vs the 4 years ele had of being pretty darn good...... cant say i feel bad for ele

 

Translation: Ele was good at one time so it's ok to nerf it into Oblivion and leave it that way. (Just don't touch my main unless it's a buff.)

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > 10 months of being ok and not super good vs the 4 years ele had of being pretty darn good...... cant say i feel bad for ele

>

> Translation: Ele was good at one time so it's ok to nerf it into Oblivion and leave it that way. (Just don't touch my main unless it's a buff.)

 

nope i dont agree

 

Translation dont complain because you could be worse off.

Rev/Necro/ Previous forms of Engi.

[LordMadman.5812]

Ele has always had the issue of being too squishy. It was my first hero at launch and quickly abandoned for warrior or guardian since they have more sustain. They need decent dps and some ability to sustain solo if need be.

[Kako.1930]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > 10 months of being ok and not super good vs the 4 years ele had of being pretty darn good...... cant say i feel bad for ele

> >

> > Translation: Ele was good at one time so it's ok to nerf it into Oblivion and leave it that way. (Just don't touch my main unless it's a buff.)

>

> nope i dont agree

>

> Translation dont complain because you could be worse off.

> Rev/Necro/ Previous forms of Engi.

 

Lol, necro and engi never had bad spots as bad as ele. There was a time where ele were so bad that it was a meme to use them and there are several videos joking about how to play ele well by switching to something else. No other profession had it that bad, and to compare it to rev is a joke since rev hasn't even been in the game since the beginning and if you compare totals, ele had more time being a joke profession than rev even existed. Engineer and necro both had times where they weren't #1, but they were never as bad as eles lowest point either. Over the years, I've played ele, engi, and necro, and ele is the only profession I've pvped with where my team harassed me for not switching to something else and often refused to play the match simply because they had an ele on their team.

 

"Oh great, we have an ele. We lose. Afk."

 

This happened all the time. If you've never played ele and only know it by being beaten by someone who vastly outplayed you then you wouldn't know any of this though.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

> > (...)

>

> Can you elaborate a bit? Do you not want to buff ele but nerf the other classes? Or do you actually think ele is fine compared to spellbreaker, holosmith, condi mirage? How is ele more braindead than those classes?

>

> I'd be fine with nerfing overall sustain and damage on every class/elite spec. But we all know that is impossible for the intern working on PVP. :wink:

>

> €: Why was this moved out of the PVP section lol? Asking for buffs is not okay but asking for various nerfs for specific classes is cool?

>

 

Like warrior, soulbeast, engi (to some extent also still condi/hybrid mirage and bunker chrono) and all these other way too much sustain with way too much dmg builds also sword weaver needs nerfs, maybe a bit less than some of the others yes.

It is ok to have builds can survive well, even outnumbered, it is a role in conquest needs to get filled by someone but surviving should need skill and these surviving builds shouldn't have high dmg in addition. These bruiser builds just have everything (lot of them even high mobility on top of it) and can fill almost every role with the same build.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

> > > (...)

> >

> > Can you elaborate a bit? Do you not want to buff ele but nerf the other classes? Or do you actually think ele is fine compared to spellbreaker, holosmith, condi mirage? How is ele more braindead than those classes?

> >

> > I'd be fine with nerfing overall sustain and damage on every class/elite spec. But we all know that is impossible for the intern working on PVP. :wink:

> >

> > €: Why was this moved out of the PVP section lol? Asking for buffs is not okay but asking for various nerfs for specific classes is cool?

> >

>

> Like warrior, soulbeast, engi (to some extent also still condi/hybrid mirage and bunker chrono) and all these other way too much sustain with way too much dmg builds also sword weaver needs nerfs, maybe a bit less than some of the others yes.

> It is ok to have builds can survive well, even outnumbered, it is a role in conquest needs to get filled by someone but surviving should need skill and these surviving builds shouldn't have high dmg in addition. These bruiser builds just have everything (lot of them even high mobility on top of it) and can fill almost every role with the same build.

 

Ele surely does not have too much damage if you refer to **mender S/D**. Whenever I fight one, i simply go for some easy defensive rotation and can save my CDs for +1. It is boring, but easy to deal with. Noone caps or decaps.

Other amulets just add some damage and pay severly with sustain. Avatar and sage do have advantages in some setups, disadvantages in others. Same goes for earth and air, arcane is a must have.

So while the other bruisers do have the same sustain, they do have a ton more damage. If you want to reduce that - fine, I am in! But if they don't, they should adjust weaver's damage. Again, just a bit, not too much. Some ranges, some cover conditions would work wonders.

(Sidenote: A warrior kills an ele in 2-3 seconds when he does not move or anything. A S/D weaver takes a lot more, like 10 seconds depending on the current attunements.)

 

However, how can you still complain about **FA**? That has been nerfed into oblivion. It was cheap, I didn't like the playstyle either. But it was easy prey for mesmers and thieves, so it was never OP at all - current rev meta would just let it explode.

 

**Tempest**? Severly lackluster. Good and strong healing, some auras might need a rework (fire aura... srsly), nice projectile hate. But one single spellbreaker or holosmith just close to it would shut down any overload. It lacks stability, it lacks aegis, it is too easily interrupted and shut down.

 

**Staff** is a meme. I saw one the other day, he did a great job and bursted some people away - in the first fight. Then he got focused and died waaay too quickly. No chance.

 

Any other "working" build you have in mind?

 

TLDR: S/D needs minor tweaks (or the other bruisers brought down a bit), the other ele builds are currently completely underpowered.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

> > > > (...)

> > >

> > > Can you elaborate a bit? Do you not want to buff ele but nerf the other classes? Or do you actually think ele is fine compared to spellbreaker, holosmith, condi mirage? How is ele more braindead than those classes?

> > >

> > > I'd be fine with nerfing overall sustain and damage on every class/elite spec. But we all know that is impossible for the intern working on PVP. :wink:

> > >

> > > €: Why was this moved out of the PVP section lol? Asking for buffs is not okay but asking for various nerfs for specific classes is cool?

> > >

> >

> > Like warrior, soulbeast, engi (to some extent also still condi/hybrid mirage and bunker chrono) and all these other way too much sustain with way too much dmg builds also sword weaver needs nerfs, maybe a bit less than some of the others yes.

> > It is ok to have builds can survive well, even outnumbered, it is a role in conquest needs to get filled by someone but surviving should need skill and these surviving builds shouldn't have high dmg in addition. These bruiser builds just have everything (lot of them even high mobility on top of it) and can fill almost every role with the same build.

>

> Ele surely does not have too much damage if you refer to **mender S/D**. Whenever I fight one, i simply go for some easy defensive rotation and can save my CDs for +1. It is boring, but easy to deal with. Noone caps or decaps.

> Other amulets just add some damage and pay severly with sustain. Avatar and sage do have advantages in some setups, disadvantages in others. Same goes for earth and air, arcane is a must have.

> So while the other bruisers do have the same sustain, they do have a ton more damage. If you want to reduce that - fine, I am in! But if they don't, they should adjust weaver's damage. Again, just a bit, not too much. Some ranges, some cover conditions would work wonders.

> (Sidenote: A warrior kills an ele in 2-3 seconds when he does not move or anything. A S/D weaver takes a lot more, like 10 seconds depending on the current attunements.)

>

> However, how can you still complain about **FA**? That has been nerfed into oblivion. It was cheap, I didn't like the playstyle either. But it was easy prey for mesmers and thieves, so it was never OP at all - current rev meta would just let it explode.

>

> **Tempest**? Severly lackluster. Good and strong healing, some auras might need a rework (fire aura... srsly), nice projectile hate. But one single spellbreaker or holosmith just close to it would shut down any overload. It lacks stability, it lacks aegis, it is too easily interrupted and shut down.

>

> **Staff** is a meme. I saw one the other day, he did a great job and bursted some people away - in the first fight. Then he got focused and died waaay too quickly. No chance.

>

> Any other "working" build you have in mind?

>

> TLDR: S/D needs minor tweaks (or the other bruisers brought down a bit), the other ele builds are currently completely underpowered.

 

I wouldn't consider staff ele a working build. Didn't meet a tempest yet (EU) means i wasn't talking about that either. The instant range burst is just a broken mechanic and should get reworked. Sword Weaver is easy to play and survive too well even when played bad. Yes some other of the bruiser are too and they all just should get balanced in a way they can survive very well when played well (means no passive sustain or facetanking and just heal up) and should cut in dmg, some other builds need more cut in dmg than weaver, i agree. But compared to a high risk build they all have still too much dmg for the (passive) sustain they have.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > Please don't buff this braindead class. What you want? More facetank ability? More viable randomspam through the attunements? More easy to land range instant dmg? There is not a single working build on Ele need any buff.

> > > > > (...)

> > > >

> > > > Can you elaborate a bit? Do you not want to buff ele but nerf the other classes? Or do you actually think ele is fine compared to spellbreaker, holosmith, condi mirage? How is ele more braindead than those classes?

> > > >

> > > > I'd be fine with nerfing overall sustain and damage on every class/elite spec. But we all know that is impossible for the intern working on PVP. :wink:

> > > >

> > > > €: Why was this moved out of the PVP section lol? Asking for buffs is not okay but asking for various nerfs for specific classes is cool?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Like warrior, soulbeast, engi (to some extent also still condi/hybrid mirage and bunker chrono) and all these other way too much sustain with way too much dmg builds also sword weaver needs nerfs, maybe a bit less than some of the others yes.

> > > It is ok to have builds can survive well, even outnumbered, it is a role in conquest needs to get filled by someone but surviving should need skill and these surviving builds shouldn't have high dmg in addition. These bruiser builds just have everything (lot of them even high mobility on top of it) and can fill almost every role with the same build.

> >

> > Ele surely does not have too much damage if you refer to **mender S/D**. Whenever I fight one, i simply go for some easy defensive rotation and can save my CDs for +1. It is boring, but easy to deal with. Noone caps or decaps.

> > Other amulets just add some damage and pay severly with sustain. Avatar and sage do have advantages in some setups, disadvantages in others. Same goes for earth and air, arcane is a must have.

> > So while the other bruisers do have the same sustain, they do have a ton more damage. If you want to reduce that - fine, I am in! But if they don't, they should adjust weaver's damage. Again, just a bit, not too much. Some ranges, some cover conditions would work wonders.

> > (Sidenote: A warrior kills an ele in 2-3 seconds when he does not move or anything. A S/D weaver takes a lot more, like 10 seconds depending on the current attunements.)

> >

> > However, how can you still complain about **FA**? That has been nerfed into oblivion. It was cheap, I didn't like the playstyle either. But it was easy prey for mesmers and thieves, so it was never OP at all - current rev meta would just let it explode.

> >

> > **Tempest**? Severly lackluster. Good and strong healing, some auras might need a rework (fire aura... srsly), nice projectile hate. But one single spellbreaker or holosmith just close to it would shut down any overload. It lacks stability, it lacks aegis, it is too easily interrupted and shut down.

> >

> > **Staff** is a meme. I saw one the other day, he did a great job and bursted some people away - in the first fight. Then he got focused and died waaay too quickly. No chance.

> >

> > Any other "working" build you have in mind?

> >

> > TLDR: S/D needs minor tweaks (or the other bruisers brought down a bit), the other ele builds are currently completely underpowered.

>

> I wouldn't consider staff ele a working build. Didn't meet a tempest yet (EU) means i wasn't talking about that either. The instant range burst is just a broken mechanic and should get reworked. Sword Weaver is easy to play and survive too well even when played bad. Yes some other of the bruiser are too and they all just should get balanced in a way they either can survive very well when played well (means no passive sutain or facetanking and just heal up) and should cut in dmg, some other builds need more cut in dmg than weaver, i agree. But compared to a high risk build they all have still too much dmg for the (passive) sustain they have.

 

Yepp, I agree about FA. It was not fun to play with or against. Didn't like it - but a rework would have been way better than just a flat damage nerf.

 

And S/D weaver is a lot more difficult to play than spellbreaker and holo - hate mirage too much to have played it. Often they just keep spamming the same good old off-CD rotation - something weaver cannot do. Weaver has to decide which attunement to pick. When in fire or air, burst him. When in water or earth, do not. They are locked to attunements and you can see when he does damage and when he tries to sustain. I do not mind that though, that's what keeps me playing mostly ele, it is about decisions and complexity (not spamming Full counter off-CD...).

 

But I guess we can agree on "bringing weaver on par with spellbreaker and other meta bruisers". Be it a small nerf to them or a small buff to weaver. :smile:

[Luca.4670]

If you guys complain about FA ele (pre-nerf or not) you should just delete and unistall this game. It was very ez to counter and to oneshot ele. Ele is trash cause garbage players complained about it and Anet listened to them, as always.

[Arheundel.6451]

And that's why balance talks from players are not taken seriously 90% of the times ( despite the self-fed delusions of many). Sword weaver is the first and only ele build that has access to evades on skills to survive instead than be forced into full facetank healburst or die...and that doesn't sit well with the many folks .

 

These same folks play professions who had access to evade on skills since day 1 , more trait synergy and they've never been hold down by a restrictive choice of amulets..or the play professions who have access to natural tankiness that requires no stat investment like power reaper with shroud, which at all levels can only be fought now by a sword weaver **( and let's see who play what here...smirk)**

 

Now those same folks are targeting the evade frame of sword weaver as it's the only thing left on ele that has a chance 1v1 vs the other faceroll crap the game has **which is everything in this game from stealth to deathshroud**, the same folks are implying the evade frame of sword weaver is faceroll....while the **distortion into stealth into blur**..it's skilled or the GS/shield block/passive heal and +300 passive toughness of warrior...that skilled too...what about the 25 perma might boon rev build with staff/sword? engi CC spam and double elixir s +stealth rotation?....and what about power reaper going into reaper shroud than 5 -chill elite and spin like a monkey? and what about.........**yeah too fucking much to list**

 

I ask myself now how is evade frame of a sword weaver less "skilled" than evade frame on everybody else....and ele has no access to stealth on demand...which is funny enough considered skilled by the gw2 playerbase.

 

90% of gw2 playerbase is highly biased, some even more than others and deep down they all want their profession to prevail everywhere while neutering the rest, this goes for all MMO out there and reason why devs generally ignore feebacks at large

[Jski.6180]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> And that's why balance talks from players are not taken seriously 90% of the times ( despite the self-fed delusions of many). Sword weaver is the first and only ele build that has access to evades on skills to survive instead than be forced into full facetank healburst or die...and that doesn't sit well with the many folks .

>

> These same folks play professions who had access to evade on skills since day 1 , more trait synergy and they've never been hold down by a restrictive choice of amulets..or the play professions who have access to natural tankiness that requires no stat investment like power reaper with shroud, which at all levels can only be fought now by a sword weaver **( and let's see who play what here...smirk)**

>

> Now those same folks are targeting the evade frame of sword weaver as it's the only thing left on ele that has a chance 1v1 vs the other faceroll crap the game has **which is everything in this game from stealth to deathshroud**, the same folks are implying the evade frame of sword weaver is faceroll....while the **distortion into stealth into blur**..it's skilled or the GS/shield block/passive heal and +300 passive toughness of warrior...that skilled too...what about the 25 perma might boon rev build with staff/sword? engi CC spam and double elixir s +stealth rotation?....and what about power reaper going into reaper shroud than 5 -chill elite and spin like a monkey? and what about.........**yeah too kitten much to list**

>

> I ask myself now how is evade frame of a sword weaver less "skilled" than evade frame on everybody else....and ele has no access to stealth on demand...which is funny enough considered skilled by the gw2 playerbase.

>

> 90% of gw2 playerbase is highly biased, some even more than others and deep down they all want their profession to prevail everywhere while neutering the rest, this goes for all MMO out there and reason why devs generally ignore feebacks at large

 

That why you got to find ways to talk about it in gen forms or wvw forms or spvp forms. Dev. not posted here in about a year + so i am not sure if they are even reading this.

[Ganathar.4956]

Why was this thread moved from the PvP sub-forum? Is PvP class discussion not allowed there anymore? Are nerf mirage threads going to be moved into the mesmer sub-forum now?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > And that's why balance talks from players are not taken seriously 90% of the times ( despite the self-fed delusions of many). Sword weaver is the first and only ele build that has access to evades on skills to survive instead than be forced into full facetank healburst or die...and that doesn't sit well with the many folks .

> >

> > These same folks play professions who had access to evade on skills since day 1 , more trait synergy and they've never been hold down by a restrictive choice of amulets..or the play professions who have access to natural tankiness that requires no stat investment like power reaper with shroud, which at all levels can only be fought now by a sword weaver **( and let's see who play what here...smirk)**

> >

> > Now those same folks are targeting the evade frame of sword weaver as it's the only thing left on ele that has a chance 1v1 vs the other faceroll crap the game has **which is everything in this game from stealth to deathshroud**, the same folks are implying the evade frame of sword weaver is faceroll....while the **distortion into stealth into blur**..it's skilled or the GS/shield block/passive heal and +300 passive toughness of warrior...that skilled too...what about the 25 perma might boon rev build with staff/sword? engi CC spam and double elixir s +stealth rotation?....and what about power reaper going into reaper shroud than 5 -chill elite and spin like a monkey? and what about.........**yeah too kitten much to list**

> >

> > I ask myself now how is evade frame of a sword weaver less "skilled" than evade frame on everybody else....and ele has no access to stealth on demand...which is funny enough considered skilled by the gw2 playerbase.

> >

> > 90% of gw2 playerbase is highly biased, some even more than others and deep down they all want their profession to prevail everywhere while neutering the rest, this goes for all MMO out there and reason why devs generally ignore feebacks at large

>

> That why you got to find ways to talk about it in gen forms or wvw forms or spvp forms. Dev. not posted here in about a year + so i am not sure if they are even reading this.

 

Really there is no hope for this class...no devs plays or acknowledge it...then you have a community with elements who will complain about the only thing left to do on an ele, use **two** evades skill on a 130 range weapon with no chance to kill anything with a functional human brain and the agility of a rooster .

 

I will tell you the truth: the only reason why I am still vouching for ele is because is my first character and spent 10k+ hrs on it and if the game would allow a class change...I wouldn't be here wasting my time because in truth that's all we're doing here....**wasting our time**, nothing will ever change on this class, is UP af and any sane person would just use anything else

 

I dunno why you guys still bother with this trash of a design, i gave my true reason: there is no way to transfer those 10k + hours on another class plus all the achievements, story etc and haven't got the time to do the same on another class now

[Javelin.7960]

It is impossible to balance nine classes, each with two elite specs, across four different game modes (Normal PvE, Raid, WvW, PvP), because in each of those modes, the concept of what balance means, changes. To a solo PvE player, an Elementalist who deals roughly equal damage to other classes is **NOT** balanced. In that game mode, a balanced Elementalist deals substantially more damage than any other class, because it suffers from so many deficits in other areas. That same character that is balanced in PvE, may be UP in PvP because of player mobility, and OP in a Raid because it's only job is to deal maximum damage.

 

On account of their inherent squishy-ness, the cloth classes are always going to be most susceptible to the nerf/buff dynamic. Warriors have survivability built in to their base stats, an Ele has to spend utility slots to get anywhere close to the same level, leaving them with less utility slots to focus on other things.

 

The core problem, and one that was made worse with the introduction of Weaver, is the series of compromises that were necessary to turn a squishy Elementalist into a front-line fighter. Weaver made it worse, but it's been an issue since the beginning. In an effort to keep WvW from becoming a boring and static exchange of meteor and arrow salvos, the fundamental mechanic of these typically ranged classes had to be altered. Necessary for the health of WvW, but the rest of the game has paid the price.

[Quasar.1756]

> @"Javelin.7960" said:

> It is impossible to balance nine classes, each with two elite specs, across four different game modes (Normal PvE, Raid, WvW, PvP), because in each of those modes, the concept of what balance means, changes. To a solo PvE player, an Elementalist who deals roughly equal damage to other classes is **NOT** balanced. In that game mode, a balanced Elementalist deals substantially more damage than any other class, because it suffers from so many deficits in other areas. That same character that is balanced in PvE, may be UP in PvP because of player mobility, and OP in a Raid because it's only job is to deal maximum damage.

>

> On account of their inherent squishy-ness, the cloth classes are always going to be most susceptible to the nerf/buff dynamic. Warriors have survivability built in to their base stats, an Ele has to spend utility slots to get anywhere close to the same level, leaving them with less utility slots to focus on other things.

>

> The core problem, and one that was made worse with the introduction of Weaver, is the series of compromises that were necessary to turn a squishy Elementalist into a front-line fighter. Weaver made it worse, but it's been an issue since the beginning. In an effort to keep WvW from becoming a boring and static exchange of meteor and arrow salvos, the fundamental mechanic of these typically ranged classes had to be altered. Necessary for the health of WvW, but the rest of the game has paid the price.

 

Based off your statement, what would be the solution?

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Javelin.7960" said:

> It is impossible to balance nine classes, each with two elite specs, across four different game modes (Normal PvE, Raid, WvW, PvP), because in each of those modes, the concept of what balance means, changes.

 

There is this thing called skill split which the balance team clearly didn't bother to do on some changes such as lava font. It's also suspicious how, after the recent balance patch, you get classes such as mesmer, thief, guard, and engi that get multiple builds that are not only all equally viable and close to optimal, but also included specs not only from PoF, and some of them are even allowed this varied choice in modes other than PvE, while ele is pretty much stuck with sword weaver now everywhere with the occasional staff weaver in very specific cases. It's as if they like to spend more time on certain classes than others.

 

 

[Javelin.7960]

Short of completely splitting the PvP/PvE/WvW game modes, along with a total rework of every class in the game, there isn't one. This problem was built in to the core of gameplay. It's not going to be fixed. Enjoy the game for what it is, or don't. As long as Elementalists are a front line melee class, they are going to need ridiculous levels of sustain to keep from dying every 30 seconds, and as long as that's the case, the whole class will be balanced around it.

[Poelala.2830]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> Why was this thread moved from the PvP sub-forum? Is PvP class discussion not allowed there anymore? Are nerf mirage threads going to be moved into the mesmer sub-forum now?

 

When I got the notification that this post was moved, I wanted to ask Arena-Net why they decided to do this. It is simply just another balance discussion. But I knew they'd never respond, seeing as when I emailed them that I had no access to my account it took them 2 weeks to respond. So when it comes to something much less important like a discussion on the overall health of the game, Arena-Net definitely will not care. I find it quite odd that a discussion that was a soulbeast hate thread under the guise of a pretend bug complaint with Worldly Impact was allowed to get 12k views yet this was moved at a measly 1.5k. What exactly is Arena-Net's plan with the functionality of their PvP sub-forum? To talk about PvP? Apparently not. They'd prefer if we all made posts saying "show off your ele 8)" or "I need an ele build for raids please help :'(" so they can continue to sweep under the rug the failure that is sPvP in 2018.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > Why was this thread moved from the PvP sub-forum? Is PvP class discussion not allowed there anymore? Are nerf mirage threads going to be moved into the mesmer sub-forum now?

>

> When I got the notification that this post was moved, I wanted to ask Arena-Net why they decided to do this. It is simply just another balance discussion. But I knew they'd never respond, seeing as when I emailed them that I had no access to my account it took them 2 weeks to respond. So when it comes to something much less important like a discussion on the overall health of the game, Arena-Net definitely will not care. I find it quite odd that a discussion that was a soulbeast hate thread under the guise of a pretend bug complaint with Worldly Impact was allowed to get 12k views yet this was moved at a measly 1.5k. What exactly is Arena-Net's plan with the functionality of their PvP sub-forum? To talk about PvP? Apparently not. They'd prefer if we all made posts saying "show off your ele 8)" or "I need an ele build for raids please help :'(" so they can continue to sweep under the rug the failure that is sPvP in 2018.

 

Wow. That is ridiculous. :cry:

 

They did it, so no thread about stupid ele blocks their beautiful vision on the PVP forum and they have more time to answer to the important thr-... oh wait!