Ele Is Still Trash Btw

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"Bloadsoaked.6792" said:

> > Ele is not meta in raids? not powerful in pve? hm....

>

> Your confusion is very understandable because Arenanet decided to move this from the PvP forum to the Elementalist forum. The context of this post is PvP.

 

Yeah, Ben reads some of the posts in the PVP subforum. But noone ever looks here, so... this makes it easier to ignore all the suggestions and discussions (even though, I admit, flavored with a lot of anger).

 

The mods do show some very bad behaviour the last weeks... this was only one example.

 

Anyway, on topic: The balance patch will be in a couple of weeks, when the new season started. Since they remove all motivation to try hard in ranked though, for me it will be time to troll. Since that might not even work out with staff zerker, I might have to switch to something else...

[MaxwellM.2075]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"Bloadsoaked.6792" said:

> > Ele is not meta in raids? not powerful in pve? hm....

>

> Your confusion is very understandable because Arenanet decided to move this from the PvP forum to the Elementalist forum. The context of this post is PvP.

 

It’s not meta in PvE actually. Just this week I was told by a rading guild that they wouldn’t consider Ele meta for any wing amdnwould rather bring any other class. That’s the position Ele is in now. No one in PvE wants Ele, no one in Wvw wants Ele and not one in PvP wants Ele.

 

For as much shit as Necro gets for never being in the PvE meta at least its kicks ass in other areas. Ele is totall in the shit can right now. I still think it’s fun personally but that only goes so far when it’s a multiplayer game

[cgMatt.5162]

Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

[Chasind.3128]

Ele is not trash, but anything can kill it.

I struggle even with the right stats to kill things more often now than before. Why? Because I love using staff and now the highest DPs is the ice spike but by then, the enemy has moved to you.

You cannot successfully roam on an Ele, you will be stunned to death. Everything counters it and pretty much can do it all better than an ele can.

Necro's give better support and better conditions than Ele.

Firebrand gives better boons and heals than Ele

Thief has better single target DPs than Ele

Ranger has better ranged DPS than an Ele

Revenant has better sustain than an Ele or the same, depending on the build

Did I even mention the mesmer?

So, where does the Elementalist stand? Ask the devs if they're happy with what they've done since clearly they have no idea the direction the class should go.

You have to do more with this class, know the rotation only to get outclassed by everything else.

[MaxwellM.2075]

> @"Chasind.3128" said:

> Ele is not trash, but anything can kill it.

> You have to do more with this class, know the rotation only to get outclassed by everything else.

 

Wat? You say its not trash then proceede to say exactly why its trash.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> For as much kitten as Necro gets for never being in the PvE meta at least its kicks kitten in other areas. Ele is totall in the kitten can right now. I still think it’s fun personally but that only goes so far when it’s a multiplayer game

 

I wouldn't be so mad when they nerfed Elementalist Staff DPS, if they gave them something else to compensate.

 

> @"Bloadsoaked.6792" said:

> Ele is not meta in raids? not powerful in pve? hm....

 

Elementalist is garbage in PVE when you are alone, like for example in story missions.

[Junkie.2584]

> @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

 

This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

> @"Junkie.2584" said:

> > @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> > Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

>

> This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

 

Ele is basically Pure nothing then ? lol For me it's not like it's not pure DPS but ele is very specialized.

 

If you want damage , you have to specialize into full dmg or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have survivability.

If you want survivability, yuo have to specialize into full support and healing or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have damage.

 

Basically a design issue with years of balancing on this creating what we know as "elementalist" today

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > @"Junkie.2584" said:

> > > @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> > > Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

> >

> > This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

>

> Ele is basically Pure nothing then ? lol For me it's not like it's not pure DPS but ele is very specialized.

>

> If you want damage , you have to specialize into full dmg or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have survivability.

> If you want survivability, yuo have to specialize into full support and healing or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have damage.

 

The ironic thing is that ele was supposed to be flexible because of attunements. But now it has ended up one of the least versatile classes. It can only do 1 thing well at once, with no in between.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > > @"Junkie.2584" said:

> > > > @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> > > > Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

> > >

> > > This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

> >

> > Ele is basically Pure nothing then ? lol For me it's not like it's not pure DPS but ele is very specialized.

> >

> > If you want damage , you have to specialize into full dmg or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have survivability.

> > If you want survivability, yuo have to specialize into full support and healing or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have damage.

>

> The ironic thing is that ele was supposed to be flexible because of attunements. But now it has ended up one of the least versatile classes. It can only do 1 thing well at once, with no in between.

 

yep it got like this cause of the way anet developped its game ... Jack of all trades have never been good in the game for ages... especially when HOT came out. And they didnt like ele being god mode in spvp before that . So there's kinda a contrast between how ele was designed and how anet is balancing the elementalist.

 

Basically for me ... the core class is class that need the most a rework.

[Eradication.8491]

> @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> Ele rotatations are as braindead as other classes and they only bring DPS. No one wants ele now because they are harder to play for equal or less damage.

 

So, "it has a braindead rotation" but apparently "it's harder to play"

dude it's either braindead or hard to play, pick one before I mentally breakdown

[MaxwellM.2075]

> @"Eradication.8491" said:

> > @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> > Ele rotatations are as braindead as other classes and they only bring DPS. No one wants ele now because they are harder to play for equal or less damage.

>

> So, "it has a braindead rotation" but apparently "it's harder to play"

> dude it's either braindead or hard to play, pick one before I mentally breakdown

 

I accidentally a word ..:: ARE NOT

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > > @"Junkie.2584" said:

> > > > @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> > > > Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

> > >

> > > This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

> >

> > Ele is basically Pure nothing then ? lol For me it's not like it's not pure DPS but ele is very specialized.

> >

> > If you want damage , you have to specialize into full dmg or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have survivability.

> > If you want survivability, yuo have to specialize into full support and healing or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have damage.

>

> The ironic thing is that ele was supposed to be flexible because of attunements. But now it has ended up one of the least versatile classes. It can only do 1 thing well at once, with no in between.

 

The attunements are what is making Elementalist inflexible. All other professions can heal, CC and damage reliably at the same time, at worst they need a weapon swap, but most weapons are versatile enough to cover multiple roles. Meanwhile, Elementalists cannot heal, CC and damage at the same time because their weapon skills aren't able to do so without swapping attunements. You can only heal and cleanse in Water, but if you change to Water you deal crap damage, you can deal damage in Fire, but you cannot CC in Fire, you can CC in Air but can't Heal nor Deal enough damage. These change based on weapon of course, Air is better DPS than Fire on Dagger but I think the point is the same. The only profession that needs to decide 10 sec in advance if they are going to need to heal, CC or deal damage is the Elementalist. All others have their skills always available to them with only a tiny delay (weapon swap). Revenant has a similar "problem" with their Legends, as they also need to manage their Energy and swap Legends together with swapping weapons. But Revenants have 2 Legends, not 4 making this a lot easier.

 

Weaver was supposed to help with this, but made it worse, because the hardest CC and heal skills are on skills 4-5 and Weaver made it harder, not easier, to swap to your 4-5 skills.

[Jski.6180]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > > > @"Junkie.2584" said:

> > > > > @"cgMatt.5162" said:

> > > > > Damage was all it had in PvE. If it's not top, it's useless, and it needed to be babysat by a healer if it was to survive effectively.

> > > >

> > > > This! Ele is a pure DMG class. But atm there is no DMG compared to other classes with more viability and easier rotations... :/

> > >

> > > Ele is basically Pure nothing then ? lol For me it's not like it's not pure DPS but ele is very specialized.

> > >

> > > If you want damage , you have to specialize into full dmg or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have survivability.

> > > If you want survivability, yuo have to specialize into full support and healing or you won't be efficient enough. But you won't have damage.

> >

> > The ironic thing is that ele was supposed to be flexible because of attunements. But now it has ended up one of the least versatile classes. It can only do 1 thing well at once, with no in between.

>

> The attunements are what is making Elementalist inflexible. All other professions can heal, CC and damage reliably at the same time, at worst they need a weapon swap, but most weapons are versatile enough to cover multiple roles. Meanwhile, Elementalists cannot heal, CC and damage at the same time because their weapon skills aren't able to do so without swapping attunements. You can only heal and cleanse in Water, but if you change to Water you deal crap damage, you can deal damage in Fire, but you cannot CC in Fire, you can CC in Air but can't Heal nor Deal enough damage. These change based on weapon of course, Air is better DPS than Fire on Dagger but I think the point is the same. The only profession that needs to decide 10 sec in advance if they are going to need to heal, CC or deal damage is the Elementalist. All others have their skills always available to them with only a tiny delay (weapon swap). Revenant has a similar "problem" with their Legends, as they also need to manage their Energy and swap Legends together with swapping weapons. But Revenants have 2 Legends, not 4 making this a lot easier.

>

> Weaver was supposed to help with this, but made it worse, because the hardest CC and heal skills are on skills 4-5 and Weaver made it harder, not easier, to swap to your 4-5 skills.

 

Sadly the ideal of ele flexible though atuments was only the though that they could heal dmg and cc as needed but that was befor they added in eleit spec an a 3 class system (dmg support tank) into the game making the small bits of support from water skills nothing vs ppl who build for it the same could be said for dmg and even cc. The only way to be truly flexible now is to allow the atuments to have armor sets tied to them so when you do swich to water you lose all your dmg for healing when you switch to fire you lose all of your healing for dmg. That would be true flexible and the funny thing is non ele classes with wepon swap are more able to do this then the ele class as they are able to swap some gear (just the weapons) to better fit what they need.

 

This was also made worst with taking away states from players and putting more into gear i think that happen a bit before HoT that big crit dmg lost realty hit ele flexible hard. Thinking on it this changes maybe what started the real down fall of ele to the trash tire level in all game types that it is now and the death to its flexible and giving all other classes with wepon swap a lot more flexible in combat.

[Eradication.8491]

Actually there're loads of changes that could, if implemented and monitored, help Ele/weavers become a more viable class. These changes surely need testing but most of us agree that ele needs some love, I came up with a list of some possible changes/additions that could somehow enhance the class (note that some of those additions /changes could be gamebreaking in some way but they are just ideas after all, criticism is needed):

 

1- currently, ele can provide very little boons to self and group:

 

*Arcane spec - Elemental attunement:

a- change water attunement's boon from regen to protection (water skills already provide regen).

b- air attunement's boon from swiftness to quickness.

c- Earth attunement's boon from protection to alacrity.

 

2- Weaver: reduce recharge time of attunement swapping to 2.5 seconds (Arcane spec: 2 seconds with elemental enchantment... basically change weaver to piano class).

 

3- Useful Elite skill (current elite skills aren't too good tbh, it's just that FGS).

 

4- completely rework scepter skills (please).

 

There are definitely more things to list but I just wrote down what I thought, from my point of view, as the most important ones because, as an ele, I can't give myself quickness nor alacrity and it's sad :anguished: .

[Nepster.4275]

I think the reduction of attunement swapping does not solve the problem of ele damage, because even with the CD now, you were AAing in fire because all of your damage skills were on CD, so to "buff" ele, they would need to reduce attunement swapping+skill CDs so you would change attunement to use some skills and not just because you dont have anything else to do(except getting EoR...(HaHaHa) )