Holosmith and Spellbreaker sustain is far too high

[Felipe.1807]

Yeah Holo is broken, everyone knows this, but dont expect any changes, maybe when they release the next expact they might nerf Holo just for the new Elite spec look more appealing...kind of sad to see people defending this shit...CC for days, high boon generation and 25 might without effort, good mobility, higher melee range then other specs for whatever the reason(really, why?)...just another "great" design made by no other then Anet devs...cant wait for the next engi spec, he probably will pull a nuke out of his ass and wipe the whole map...judging by some responses here, some people would call it "balanced".

[Mbelch.9028]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> Yeah Holo is broken, everyone knows this, but dont expect any changes, maybe when they release the next expact they might nerf Holo just for the new Elite spec look more appealing...kind of sad to see people defending this kitten...CC for days, high boon generation and 25 might without effort, good mobility, higher melee range then other specs for whatever the reason(really, why?)...just another "great" design made by no other then Anet devs...cant wait for the next engi spec, he probably will pull a nuke out of his kitten and wipe the whole map...judging by some responses here, some people would call it "balanced".

 

It's like you didn't take any effort to read my explanation of why the OP was so wrong, and so are you. But hey, you do you.

[Rysdude.3824]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > > @"Kroya.1072" said:

> > > Help, how do I get all those things listed in the OP as a holo?

> >

> > They don't exist. OP doesn't understand the entire engineer class, let alone Holo. OP appears to be an elementalist who is sad (rightfully so) that Anet can't balance eles at all. I also miss elementalist (was a well-known d/d ele main), but calling for nerfs to mostly balanced classes like Holo is just bad form.

>

> Say what you want about me it doesn't bother me but...why are you still trying to play coy? Except fresh new players....everybody knows what an engi run : https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Static_Protection

>

> The build in the link has 1x invulnerability but some engies take https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_S and that brings an additional invulnerability plus stealth while detracting nothing from the list in the OP which include dmg reduction with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectrum_Shield and allow engies to drop **photon wall** and add elixir s, now you have 2x stunbreak + stealth + 2x invulnerability but pls....do your best to prove otherwise , you call me liar anyway

 

I can’t even...this build is what the post is based off of? Elixir S if used is on a massive 60 sec cool down. 48 if traited but that forces the alchemy line. 2x stun breaks are common in almost all roaming/pvp builds, as is stealth. Again, getting a second invuln forces the alchemy traitline.

 

OP correct me if Im wrong but aren't you a ranger main? Which have access to all of those things you listed, plus more?

 

[Virelion.4128]

I think that nerfing holo damage, and nerfing full counter to be 25 or 30 sec cd is good idea. Currently spb does not have to work for his sustain at all.

[Solaerin.8635]

It hurts my brain to see people say in earnest that full counter should have a 25-30 second cooldown. Also, it seems like the OP is conflating multiple different holosmith builds as one spec

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

lul

When people go as far as saying that passive invuln is bad and that engies hate it when every single engi build except full kit uses it...

 

I should take some notes so when people demand mesmer nerfs I say something like distortion is bad, mesmers hate it, it destroys the damage potential of shatters or blurred frenzy is bad, good mesmers don't even use it, if it goes to retal it will kill you!

 

[otto.5684]

Without getting too much into detail, anyone saying holo is balanced is oblivious or biased. It is not game breaking, but surely out performing.

 

SB, again, some aspects need a roll back, but it’s damage is weak.

[Rysdude.3824]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> lul

> When people go as far as saying that passive invuln is bad and that engies hate it when every single engi build except full kit uses it...

>

> I should take some notes so when people demand mesmer nerfs I say something like distortion is bad, mesmers hate it, it destroys the damage potential of shatters or blurred frenzy is bad, good mesmers don't even use it, if it goes to retal it will kill you!

>

 

That’s not the same, at all. Alchemy line doesn’t offer any other good substitute in that traitline, if alchemy is taken. Comparing a core engi traitline to anything mesmer isn’t even remotely close and just loses argument validation.

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > lul

> > When people go as far as saying that passive invuln is bad and that engies hate it when every single engi build except full kit uses it...

> >

> > I should take some notes so when people demand mesmer nerfs I say something like distortion is bad, mesmers hate it, it destroys the damage potential of shatters or blurred frenzy is bad, good mesmers don't even use it, if it goes to retal it will kill you!

> >

>

> That’s not the same, at all. Alchemy line doesn’t offer any other good substitute in that traitline, if alchemy is taken. Comparing a core engi traitline to anything mesmer isn’t even remotely close and just loses argument validation.

>

 

If passive elixir is that hated, I'm sure you can just trait comeback cure or backpack in case you use some kit and avoid all the issues passive elixir cause.

 

I'm not comparing, I said I should take some notes in order to make good skills look bad.

[Mbelch.9028]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Without getting too much into detail, anyone saying holo is balanced is oblivious or biased. It is not game breaking, but surely out performing.

>

> SB, again, some aspects need a roll back, but it’s damage is weak.

 

Otto, Holo is definitely not gamebreaking, and is slightly overperforming. That's why I've called for a few shaves, on Autoattack, Holo Wave and (sorry core engineers) to Healing Turret, although I'd be willing to consider a different alternative to that.

 

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > lul

> > > When people go as far as saying that passive invuln is bad and that engies hate it when every single engi build except full kit uses it...

> > >

> > > I should take some notes so when people demand mesmer nerfs I say something like distortion is bad, mesmers hate it, it destroys the damage potential of shatters or blurred frenzy is bad, good mesmers don't even use it, if it goes to retal it will kill you!

> > >

> >

> > That’s not the same, at all. Alchemy line doesn’t offer any other good substitute in that traitline, if alchemy is taken. Comparing a core engi traitline to anything mesmer isn’t even remotely close and just loses argument validation.

> >

>

> If passive elixir is that hated, I'm sure you can just trait comeback cure or backpack in case you use some kit and avoid all the issues passive elixir cause.

>

> I'm not comparing, I said I should take some notes in order to make good skills look bad.

 

I do take those selections. Elixir S is just not optimal for me, since I can't control it. I would say 50% of engineers in that traitline do take it, you're correct, but the smart ones do not.

[Gregious.8903]

You think spellbreaker needs a PvP nerf? Ok, go ahead and nerf it. It can be somewhat overtuned atm. But while you're at it, delete mesmer from the game, ban asura from PvP, increase the cooldown of every stealth by 300%, remove 50% of thief teleports, and make all PvP maps on level ground. Spellbreaker is the warrior's only option to even begin to try to deal with all the other bs.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > lul

> > > When people go as far as saying that passive invuln is bad and that engies hate it when every single engi build except full kit uses it...

> > >

> > > I should take some notes so when people demand mesmer nerfs I say something like distortion is bad, mesmers hate it, it destroys the damage potential of shatters or blurred frenzy is bad, good mesmers don't even use it, if it goes to retal it will kill you!

> > >

> >

> > That’s not the same, at all. Alchemy line doesn’t offer any other good substitute in that traitline, if alchemy is taken. Comparing a core engi traitline to anything mesmer isn’t even remotely close and just loses argument validation.

> >

>

> If passive elixir is that hated, I'm sure you can just trait comeback cure or backpack in case you use some kit and avoid all the issues passive elixir cause.

>

> I'm not comparing, I said I should take some notes in order to make good skills look bad.

 

Auto-Elixir S isn't a great choice. As mentioned above, it takes control away from the player when it might have been critical. It is most often a double-edged sword.

 

But the other two options are worse. Comeback Cure's healing is practically inconsequential on any damage spec, and Backpack Regenerator only applies to kits, not Photon Forge, rendering it basically worthless for Holosmith. At least auto-elixir S generally protects you from hard spikes.

[Math.5123]

> @"Gregious.8903" said:

> You think spellbreaker needs a PvP nerf? Ok, go ahead and nerf it. It can be somewhat overtuned atm. But while you're at it, delete mesmer from the game, ban asura from PvP, increase the cooldown of every stealth by 300%, remove 50% of thief teleports, and make all PvP maps on level ground. Spellbreaker is the warrior's only option to even begin to try to deal with all the other bs.

 

Ever heard of standard enemy models?

[Exalted Quality.8534]

I’m convinced that 99% of people that complain about holo are silver players. Holo is arguably the most balanced POF spec. Granted, I feel like the buffs to invuln were not warranted, it’s not that big of a deal since power is dominating the meta.

 

Spellbreaker sustain is annoying to deal with, but they toned down the damage quite a bit. Warriors have to be strong in 1v1s because their presence in team fights is kinda meh.

[Absinthey.5340]

Holos sustain is not balanced in terms of the damage it is able to output. But this doesn't by any means make it unique.... plenty of other classes are doing the exact same thing. Can't really justify a nerf, would rather see balance.

 

There is also a distinct difference between a skilled holo player and one who is not. Holo played at a high level is scary efficient, but is garbage in the hands of a novice. So let's not diminish the skill required to play it.

[SPESHAL.9106]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought, **that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong**, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

>

> Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. You can give that much extreme mobility, stealth, invuln, and boon protection to one profession.

 

That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

 

Mesmers actually have that same "invincibility" and need much more rework because even after multiple mid-season nerfs, they still are unbeatable in most any 1v1 matchup. Ironically, a good engie/holo can give them the most trouble.

 

[Hot Boy.7138]

Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

 

Warrior also have too much resilience, however anet has never really gotten warriors right. It's either they die way too easy, or they are way too hard to kill. I've never seen a middle ground. And I dont play warrior so i can't say why that is. But I agree something needs to be done about the meta builds for both classes.

 

So many classes have builds that are way over the top in one area or another, or a lot of areas. where does one even begin to fix all that's imbalanced? it's so much.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

 

The damage mitigation is the reason why I believe most of the engineers' traits should be changed so that they benefit kits instead of being general traits that benefit holosmith like Iron Blooded and Invigorating Speed.

[Arlette.9684]

Holo pulled a Magic Johnson!

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"SPESHAL.9106" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought, **that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong**, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

> >

> > Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

>

>

> That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

 

...

 

The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

 

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

 

Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

[Rysdude.3824]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"SPESHAL.9106" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought, **that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong**, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

> > >

> > > Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

> >

> >

> > That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

>

> ...

>

> The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

>

> > @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

>

> Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

 

Lol ikr. When uses those descripters it leads me to think of mesmer, warrior or ranger. Hardly an engineer.

 

[Mbelch.9028]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"SPESHAL.9106" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought, **that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong**, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

> > >

> > > Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

> >

> >

> > That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

>

> ...

>

> The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

>

> > @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

>

> Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

 

Really glad you joined the thread. Was tired of being one of the only people who understands Holo here. I agree with the person who said the only folks complaining about Holo are silver-tier. It's a strong spec, but there are other strong specs. My advice to them: play it for a while, learn how to beat it, come back to this thread and say "Yeah you guys were right."

[Hot Boy.7138]

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"SPESHAL.9106" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought, **that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong**, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

> > > >

> > > > Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

> > >

> > >

> > > That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

> >

> > ...

> >

> > The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

> >

> > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > > Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

> >

> > Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

>

> Really glad you joined the thread. Was tired of being one of the only people who understands Holo here. I agree with the person who said the only folks complaining about Holo are silver-tier. It's a strong spec, but there are other strong specs. My advice to them: play it for a while, learn how to beat it, come back to this thread and say "Yeah you guys were right."

 

People want to undermine anyone with another opinion by degrading them and claiming they are low tiered or bad. I'm plat 2. And i've been with this game since launch. There are a lot of nerf this and nerf that on the forums. And quite frankly, a lot of the complaints have a lot of validity. There is a lot that needs to be balanced. I don't dismiss anyone's claims. I try to look at it through their perspective, and i give my opinion. If your opinion can't stand on its own without first degrading someone with another opinion, then maybe what you have to say isn't valid. that's just my take on it.

[Tehologist.5841]

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Static_Protection

 

Watch zan's twitch, no stealth, invulnerability or rocket boots required. Just plain old dodges and good positioning. Yes, holo is fast and hits hard, I won't deny that.

[Sampson.2403]

Buff mezmer