Vinceman.4572 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > Is there a reason you're saying NO to balancing rewards? > > > > He doesn't say "NO" to balancing rewards, he is just stating the fact that there are enough alternatives played constantly. And even the other parts in this game where we find lesser rewards are still active and not dead per se. > > So unless something is fully "dead" it's fine right. > Unless something is entirely broken, why improve it? > > There's nothing wrong at all! Doesn't harm replayability! Everything is great! > > You know, having vastly inbalanced classes doesn't stop these classes from being played. So clearly, no reason to balance classes right? Even when they weren't balanced for PvE at all; each class still saw play. Sure, never at the high end or for people that cared about balance but that clearly doesn't matter ;) Dude, I feel so sorry for you but we were on rewards not on classes. While this game needs a way better balance in terms of classes/specs (and almost all the active people in the forums support that opinion - including me) the reward balance isn't that big of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mireles Lore.5942 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 It is kinda of an interesting thing to see how far raids have dropped off in their content priority. Anet has a history of developing things then abandoning them. No amount of popularity seems to save them. As a guild leader of 13 years, I can see how there decisions are wiping out the veteran player base. Many long standing guilds I knew from Guild Wars 1 are not around anymore. There was a time the 6-8 months following HoT that raids were the only PvE content being released. We saw 9 bosses released in that time period. Many people were lured to this content on just the idea of legendary armor even though it would come much much later. If you were a PvE community you had to become proficient in providing clears for your community or you saw the most dedicated members leave your guild and it died. We absorbed so many guilds and had a handful of commanders working hard to accommodate incoming players. It was insane, but a matter of survival that PvE guilds were able to tackle this content. Many of them did not make it as well as many people quit because they could/would not keep up with the commitment or deemed mechanically proficient enough to be taken on them. Presently we are seeing 2-4 bosses released every 8-10 months. You can not maintain a community based on challenging end game content with such a slow release of that type of content. Now the other side of the spectrum is leaving the game because clearing the same wings with nothing new for the greater part of a year is boring. After everyone got their legendary armor, motivation to raid is even lower. Right now we got a legendary trinket we will finally get to make this year? Maybe? The gap between new people looking to get into raiding to make legendary armor and the veteran players that still regularly clear in one night on a weekly basis is getting very wide. It only stands to get wider as more and more people decide get bored, quit, and never come back. Now just the opposite is happening, we have had to return to a casual focus just to maintain activity in our communities. As someone that is both a community leader and has completed all the raid content Anet has to offer many times. Anet really should have stuck to their guns on at-least one of these decisions. One they should have maintained the casual mentality, never made raids and displaced so many people from the game they had been casually completing for years. Or two, stuck with developing high end content in a manner that kept the player base they created introducing raids entertained. Right now seeing a casual veteran that has not taken many months to a year off is rare thing to see. What is mostly out there is people that are coming back after a long period of absence or people just starting out. Only occasionally you see a dedicated vet that is proficient in raiding and end game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sillytune.1580 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. Whatever your thoughts regarding this game, which i'll go with mine in couple of moments - mostly everyone will find something to disagree with as long as they can play in their little sandbox. Lets be honest for a second. This company is highly unprofessional, gw2 as a game itself has a potential to be the best MMO game in world - aka the WoW killer, if there ever was any - It just never seems to happen, and i highly blame anet for their rather shapeless approach towards this games future and it's progression. Starting with very bad [and i'm being selective here about the words, for the censorship of these forum posts is borderline insane, that at first should tell you something] advertising. Apart from that, i've been vocal on the issue when it comes to balancing, that we get what i call: kinder surprise patches. There's no communication from the dev to the playerbase, on testing the future content, or overall explanation on "why" there is a sudden shift in the meta, every couple of months. The ironic part is that, the changes themselves arent really structural - they seem wild, and formless, designed just to put something random into the game so the already stale content which we've been playing for what could be said: eternity [2 and a half years], could be somewhat influenced by those changes into appealing more to the masses? There's no explanation on why certain classes are buffed/nerfed the way they are. There will always be a special snowflake or two, that'll comment on this subject that we shouldn't be even told why the game is going the direction which it's going, while we're playing it. It feels like community has been whipped, into just sitting in a buss with an unknown driver, driving into god knows where, and you're in there for the ride, that seems to go, and go, and go, and go - into nowhere - The issue itself again, is the community, that will respond with utmost passive-aggressiveness it can muster, so i quite /salute @Etheri.5406 for being vocal about his views, with which i personally agree with. @"Vinceman.4572" - You've mentioned that raid loot/reward is not the issue. I disagree with you - here's why: There's no incentive to the CM replayability other than what someone might consider to be friendly: Do it for a Guildie/Friend. Or the self-invented [or inflicted, depending on your mood], *high* end content, speedclearing/raidselling A game that deals with PvE content needs to offer stable replayability motivation factor, if it will not release its content on the regular basis. Anet has the best community - because the majority of the community is actually silent, and not vocal at all - We play what we're given, and hinder each other at any possibility when an idea to change might happen - unless it's some sort of drama, then everyone loves juicy reddit drama. [Mount lootboxes/firing of now ex-employees and so] Battle for azeroth's coming out soon - but that's not a solution, but that's just giving up and saying goodbye. Have fun boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zushada.6108 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 So my only comment, and I am sorry if it was said above, is that this isn't WoW. What you consider a content drought is a norm in this game. As others have mentioned, raids aren't necessarily as important to the dev team as other areas. This isn't a bad thing as the game wasn't developed with hard core raiders in mind. As the first response (Etheri.5406) indicated, if that is what you are after, this isn't the game for you. There is far too much to do in game with open world metas, WvW, WBs, Fractals and Dungeons that raids should be a compliment to the game rather than the only thing a player is after. Personally, I appreciate both sides, but it isn't a content drought as much as it is a norm compared to what you are used to, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Zushada.6108" said: > What you consider a content drought is a norm in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver Assume much? That might apply to you, not necessarily to other players. I find the approach: play something you enjoy quite rational. I find the notion to play something one might like IF the developers change their approach a lot less rational. The market and player retention and activity weeds out the games that do not deliver. Does that automatically mean everything is perfect? No. If a game is successful though because enough players play and engage in it, I find it presumptions to assume that the developers need to change their approach to cater to ones diverging personal desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > Assume much? That might apply to you, not necessarily to other players. > > I find the approach: play something you enjoy quite rational. > > I find the notion to play something one might like IF the developers change their approach a lot less rational. > > The market and player retention and activity weeds out the games that do not deliver. Does that automatically mean everything is perfect? No. If a game is successful though because enough players play and engage in it, I find it presumptions to assume that the developers need to change their approach to cater to ones diverging personal desires. Thats why people keep playing games they know dont deliver. Humans are emotional creatures and not ratiomal creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > Assume much? That might apply to you, not necessarily to other players. > > > > I find the approach: play something you enjoy quite rational. > > > > I find the notion to play something one might like IF the developers change their approach a lot less rational. > > > > The market and player retention and activity weeds out the games that do not deliver. Does that automatically mean everything is perfect? No. If a game is successful though because enough players play and engage in it, I find it presumptions to assume that the developers need to change their approach to cater to ones diverging personal desires. > > Thats why people keep playing games they know dont deliver. > Humans are emotional creatures and not ratiomal creatures. That might be true for a small cross segment of a community, it will certainly not hold true for an entire player base, unless you want to prove mass delusion. Case in point: unpopular games or games which grow unpopular are forced out of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Fact is, even if a small percentage plays raids, it shouldn't take 9 months to release a tiny raid wing with 3 bosses. It's just laughable. It's not that the rest of the content is much. There are zero dungeons and there are 1-2 fractals per year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > Fact is, even if a small percentage plays raids, it shouldn't take 9 months to release a tiny raid wing with 3 bosses. It's just laughable. It's not that the rest of the content is much. There are zero dungeons and there are 1-2 fractals per year... Deepstone took 8 months ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > Fact is, even if a small percentage plays raids, it shouldn't take 9 months to release a tiny raid wing with 3 bosses. It's just laughable. It's not that the rest of the content is much. There are zero dungeons and there are 1-2 fractals per year... > > Deepstone took 8 months ;-; It actually took far less. By the moment they released they were already far into working on the next one. It's just that they don't want to release too soon, because the players might expect the _next_ one to be done with the same speed as well. Better to keep to the schedule. But yeah, deepstone took them about 5 months if i remember correctly, and a single raid wing is much more work compared to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. Ofc you dont think thats it. Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. Again, proof. You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > Again, proof. > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? Just how dim are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > Again, proof. > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > Just how dim are you? That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. Okay let's try this differently: What is more likely: That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. Or: You being highly biased and assumptive. Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > Just how dim are you? > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > Okay let's try this differently: > > What is more likely: > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > Or: > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > > Just how dim are you? > > > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > > > Okay let's try this differently: > > > > What is more likely: > > > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > > > Or: > > > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). > > I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. Okay, thanks for the discussion. I will now feel free to ignore this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > > > Just how dim are you? > > > > > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > > > > > Okay let's try this differently: > > > > > > What is more likely: > > > > > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > > > > > Or: > > > > > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > > > > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). > > > > I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. > > Okay, thanks for the discussion. I will now feel free to ignore this nonsense. Youre quite welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > > Just how dim are you? > > > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > > > Okay let's try this differently: > > > > What is more likely: > > > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > > > Or: > > > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). > > I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > > > > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > > > > Just how dim are you? > > > > > > > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > > > > > > > Okay let's try this differently: > > > > > > > > What is more likely: > > > > > > > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > > > > > > > Or: > > > > > > > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > > > > > > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). > > > > > > I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. > > > > Okay, thanks for the discussion. I will now feel free to ignore this nonsense. > > Youre quite welcome. On the notion of delusions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion > > A delusion is a mistaken belief that is held with strong conviction even in the presence of superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or some other misleading effects of perception. Glad you brought this up, it helps put this thread into context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > > > > > > > > > > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ofc you dont think thats it. > > > > > > Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people. > > > > > > > > > > Again, proof. > > > > > > > > > > You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side? > > > > > > > > You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational? > > > > Just how dim are you? > > > > > > That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment. > > > > > > Okay let's try this differently: > > > > > > What is more likely: > > > > > > That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so. > > > > > > Or: > > > > > > You being highly biased and assumptive. > > > > > > Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to). > > > > I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional. > > Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours. Not if you are delusional, quite literally. Then all of them are wrong and you are right. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Sillytune.1580" said: > I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2. > It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly *fine* with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver. > Whatever your thoughts regarding this game, which i'll go with mine in couple of moments - mostly everyone will find something to disagree with as long as they can play in their little sandbox. I can only speak for this subh....subforum because it's enough to waste my time with reading and commenting here. At first we need good ideas and not just rants or unthought/unfinished ideas (that isn't directed towards you but at Etheri who still haven't had any valuable answer to our question). The reason why you find so many people defending Anet in the other forum areas and on reddit is that - I know it's hard to deal with it myself - we are the minority. Indeed a minority that is involved in pushing things to the limit, sometimes having profound and concrete discussions about the class balance. Some of us are delivering very good "side content" with speed runs, solo videos and earlier on qT, now SC with a benchmark site and not to forget dT. The thing is it's still the minority and therefore not in the focus of Anet. Inside of our bubble we feel that they should turn towards us because hey, we are the ones understanding the game/the classes/the tricks and not these autoattack spamming guys at Golem Mark II or at the heart vendor in Iron Marches. But! That won't happen. It's Anet and their game philosophy. I don't defend that but I'm five years into the game by now with little breaks and that's what you have to realize. Once you get that as a hardcore or non-casual player it's easier to deal with. > Lets be honest for a second. > This company is highly unprofessional, gw2 as a game itself has a potential to be the best MMO game in world - aka the WoW killer, if there ever was any - > It just never seems to happen, and i highly blame anet for their rather shapeless approach towards this games future and it's progression. > Starting with very bad [and i'm being selective here about the words, for the censorship of these forum posts is borderline insane, that at first should tell you something] advertising. I agree that GW2 could have become the WoW killer but I doubt that this was Anet's intention from the start. They wanted to include players that felt left out in other MMOs and tried to make differences and to stand out from the crowd. Yes, this game has, maybe had, potential to be that killer but regarding their philosophy it'll never be. > Apart from that, i've been vocal on the issue when it comes to balancing, that we get what i call: kinder surprise patches. > There's no communication from the dev to the playerbase, on testing the future content, or overall explanation on "why" there is a sudden shift in the meta, every couple of months. > The ironic part is that, the changes themselves arent really structural - they seem wild, and formless, designed just to put something random into the game so the already stale content which we've been playing for what could be said: eternity [2 and a half years], could be somewhat influenced by those changes into appealing more to the masses? > There's no explanation on why certain classes are buffed/nerfed the way they are. > There will always be a special snowflake or two, that'll comment on this subject that we shouldn't be even told why the game is going the direction which it's going, while we're playing it. > It feels like community has been kitten, into just sitting in a buss with an unknown driver, driving into god knows where, and you're in there for the ride, that seems to go, and go, and go, and go - into nowhere - Completely on your side here. To the present day we had dozens of balance discussions in our raiding guild especially on and after patch days. A lot of changes were unnecessary, others came out of nowhere and destroyed classes from one day to another...I could go on. In this case it isn't understandable why there's still not test server in advance for balance patches so people can try things and give constructive feedback. > The issue itself again, is the community, that will respond with utmost passive-aggressiveness it can muster, so i quite /salute @Etheri.5406 for being vocal about his views, with which i personally agree with. It's one thing to express disappointment and another to make it constructive. I mean, I don't have to tell you that in particular, since I have met you on a dhuum run when you suddenly "disappeared" from the game and took an involuntary timeout of some days. :P > @"Vinceman.4572" - You've mentioned that raid loot/reward is not the issue. > I disagree with you - here's why: > There's no incentive to the CM replayability other than what someone might consider to be friendly: Do it for a Guildie/Friend. > Or the self-invented [or inflicted, depending on your mood], *high* end content, speedclearing/raidselling > > A game that deals with PvE content needs to offer stable replayability motivation factor, if it will not release its content on the regular basis. > Anet has the best community - because the majority of the community is actually silent, and not vocal at all - > We play what we're given, and hinder each other at any possibility when an idea to change might happen - unless it's some sort of drama, then everyone loves juicy reddit drama. [Mount lootboxes/firing of now ex-employees and so] I've never written anywhere that raid rewards are no problem. They are! I would have an easier time and be more willing to do a 2nd full clear on my twink with pugs if more people were raiding and I could scroll through a variety of lfgs during the whole week and not just Mo/Tue/Wed. It can be a pain in the axx to find decent groups at the end of the week and with decent I mean groups that are able to kill bosses in 2-3 pulls. As long that isn't given I only fullclear with my static. Also, I'm totally bored to repeat bosses because there's no acceptable reward - the same goes for CMs of course. They made a statement about rewarding repeatable CMs. I think it's already months ago and we heard nothing since then. Additionally I still don't understand the "Call of the Mists" effect in raids and I don't mean its functionality I just don't get its purpose. If you do full clear you also clear the one with the effect besides the actual one. Ty Anet, free gold, but that's it. I doubt this effect causes people to raid more or more specifically. > Battle for azeroth's coming out soon - but that's not a solution, but that's just giving up and saying goodbye. Aaaaaaand we all know how long people will stay there. People there will be done soonish and numbers will sink again. Well, at least that's what happened last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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