Etheri.5406 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 > @"Xantaria.8726" said: > > @"DutchRiders.2871" said: > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > Is there a reason you're saying NO to balancing rewards? > > > > > > > > > > He doesn't say "NO" to balancing rewards, he is just stating the fact that there are enough alternatives played constantly. And even the other parts in this game where we find lesser rewards are still active and not dead per se. > > > > > > > > So unless something is fully "dead" it's fine right. > > > > Unless something is entirely broken, why improve it? > > > > > > > > There's nothing wrong at all! Doesn't harm replayability! Everything is great! > > > > > > > > You know, having vastly inbalanced classes doesn't stop these classes from being played. So clearly, no reason to balance classes right? Even when they weren't balanced for PvE at all; each class still saw play. Sure, never at the high end or for people that cared about balance but that clearly doesn't matter ;) > > > > > > Dude, I feel so sorry for you but we were on rewards not on classes. While this game needs a way better balance in terms of classes/specs (and almost all the active people in the forums support that opinion - including me) the reward balance isn't that big of a problem. > > > > I think when you state that balancing rewards is not a problem, when veterans are ditching the game (we have everything) cause no sense of progression. Well ....you might be a bit disconnected with the community. > > That is rather a problem of sinks then a problem of rewards i believe. Rewards are not perfect regarding for examble each world boss, yet they are not one of the major problem of the game. Many veterans have everything cause they, well *played for years*. Of course they will at one point have everything they need (though i doubt that anyone has everything that can be get in the game). You're the one stating rewards aren't inbalanced, and the new farm maps aren't too high. Yet actually look at ecto supply, demand and prices as well as howmuch ectos are being sold / bought pre reward-increase after HoT. That's only about 2 years ago, even less. We added SO MUCH rewards to the game that farming "full endgame status" speeded up significantly. And at the same time, we fucked the entire economy, and promoted only playing high-rewarding content. Actually look at ecto supply and demand, going from 50.000 to over 1 million in under 2 years despite it being relatively stable for years before that. It's almost as if a few maps managed to produce more ectos than all our previous sinks could handle. It's almost like it crashed prices completely. And you think adding SINKS to match this which only makes older content less rewarding compared to the new, higher sinks AND it makes old rewards more trivial and thus the achievement less meaningful. Again, dumb overrewarding maps are BAD for long term replayability of the game. Oh wait no, players love farming these maps and their rewards. They're clearly great for replayability, people keep replaying those maps! /s Clearly there is NOTHING wrong with the reward balance. The forum experts are telling me. Ever since rewards were increased for HoT because of players like you demanding it for their favorite content rather than balanced rewards? Supply several times higher than demand leading to a massive surplus. A surplus which this event won't even fix ;). But there's no issues with that at all, no. They just need to add more sinks. Lets carefully ignore that ecto supply went from 50k to 500k in about 3 months. They just added a huge sink with this event... And yet it still can't compete with istan. Lets see if anet doubles down and adds further sinks after the event. If not, lets see how long it takes for the ecto price to be gutted again. I don't mind, I make more money off this blatant stupidity than most of you will grind in istan throughout these months... I wish you were pretending you THOUGHT it was good for the game, but you were really doing it for self-interest. But I truthfully think you "think" it's best for the game this way. Which is frankly just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 > @"DutchRiders.2871" said: > I think when you state that balancing rewards is not a problem, when veterans are ditching the game (we have everything) cause no sense of progression. Well ....you might be a bit disconnected with the community. Well, in terms of long-term rewards we need to have things and we get those via gem store. Every (self-proclaimed) veteran knows the best sources of liquid gold and can easily buy his gems via exchange. But the rewards are not the reason why veterans leave this game in bigger groups. Their reason is the missing content for them and while I agree here that Anet is not able to hand out enough for me as well I've realized and read what their plans are and that I don't belong to the main audience. They have their plans with the game and it's working for them. Of course I could be mad and rant like some under-aged and do not behave like an adult (obviously seen in this thread) but I don't think that this is gonna help at all. I vote with my wallet and with my logins/play time. My steam library is full with games on the waiting list and the "pile of shame" is growing (and I don't believe I'll ever play everything I want due to family, friend and job commitments). Additionally there are some great games for PS4 as well as for the Switch. GW2 has no longer any exclusivity for me if I'm not pleased. And since so many people are celebrating Anet on Reddit and telling stories about their tattoos, map explorations and other stuff plus side content like fluff art & videos this game is in a good spot for it's target audience, I guess. If they don't care about Istan, ectos and other stuff some hardcore veterans are criticizing it's either because they are not able to or they don't see any reason for a bigger change there. I suppose the latter but I'm not sitting in the headquarters and am participating in their decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > I vote with my wallet and with my logins/play time. kind of the same for me, I did not buy any gems with real money since Lake Doric was released and over the last 9 months or so also reduced my playtime quite a lot (which is still more than what most would consider casual i guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotenks Jr.3752 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > So Ive been raiding for a while and apperently new bosses are released at a laughably low paste,whats that all about? > As an ex-wow player it just boggles my mind that people who raid have to wait more than 6 whole months for 3 new bosses 0_0" > Im not expecting the abundance of new content wow had in a b2p game but the amount of new pve grouped instanced content is just so low that I cant understand how can someone call himself a raider. > If somones main attraction is instanced group pve content apperently a-net massage to them is this is not the place for you. > Im really not that big on raiding anymore and casually enjoy the open world content more(which is why im here) but the whole thing just seems really lazy Hehe I'm still waiting for core to get its much needed love, Anet gives a lot more love to Fractals and Raids than Dungeons. I even recall hearing someone state that there are some lore stories they want to tell that are not quite a raid but more than a Fractal, you can probably guess the word that comes to my mind is dungeon. Yet we don't seem to see any love going to them and they could do with some reworking as well as some new ones. I don't like T1 Fractals which are pickup and play like dungeons as they are not really rewarding and T4's tend to end up not being enjoyable for other reasons probably already covered in this thread. Dungeons I always loved, they taught mechanics and you could take anyone level 80 into them with you. They WERE Pick Up and Play, "Elitism" in them was purely speed running based and not that bad, and you could go in with any combination you wanted it wasn't a headache. Sadly they are not even considered rewarding enough for people to ask for them unless they are legendary hunting yet back in the day I'd be doing them on a basis that the term Daily wouldn't really cover :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotenks Jr.3752 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > > >casually enjoy the open world content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better. > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players. > > > > > > Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around. > > > > > > The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progress > > > > > > no casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community > > > > > > > > > > Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off. > > > > > > > > > > This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding. > > > > > > > > The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke. > > > > If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either. > > > > > > Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world. > > > > > > > Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode. > > Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES. I haven't followed this chain of conversation, however I will state that the balance of direct story telling and indirect story telling / things to do, feels too spread. I still say the game should have Personal Story (for the character so that includes living story) and at minimum Regional Story for the major races or factions. I loved what was done with Calagbolg for example. Would be nice to see more little things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 > @"Gotenks Jr.3752" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > > > >casually enjoy the open world content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players. > > > > > > > Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around. > > > > > > > The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progress > > > > > > > no casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off. > > > > > > > > > > > > This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding. > > > > > > > > > > The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke. > > > > > If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either. > > > > > > > > Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world. > > > > > > > > > > Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode. > > > > Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES. > > I haven't followed this chain of conversation, however I will state that the balance of direct story telling and indirect story telling / things to do, feels too spread. I still say the game should have Personal Story (for the character so that includes living story) and at minimum Regional Story for the major races or factions. I loved what was done with Calagbolg for example. Would be nice to see more little things like that. Having stuff by race and factions means 3 or 5 times the work respectively. People who don't have enough content are going to have less content, so I'm not in favor of that. As for the specific balance of what comes out and what doesn't, someone is always going to have a problem with it. Change the way it works now, which I'm mostly satisfied with and maybe I'd no longer be satisfied. That's really the issue. There are no easy answers to what content can be made, and what people want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotenks Jr.3752 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Gotenks Jr.3752" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > > > > >casually enjoy the open world content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players. > > > > > > > > Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around. > > > > > > > > The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progress > > > > > > > > no casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke. > > > > > > If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either. > > > > > > > > > > Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode. > > > > > > Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES. > > > > I haven't followed this chain of conversation, however I will state that the balance of direct story telling and indirect story telling / things to do, feels too spread. I still say the game should have Personal Story (for the character so that includes living story) and at minimum Regional Story for the major races or factions. I loved what was done with Calagbolg for example. Would be nice to see more little things like that. > > Having stuff by race and factions means 3 or 5 times the work respectively. People who don't have enough content are going to have less content, so I'm not in favor of that. As for the specific balance of what comes out and what doesn't, someone is always going to have a problem with it. Change the way it works now, which I'm mostly satisfied with and maybe I'd no longer be satisfied. That's really the issue. There are no easy answers to what content can be made, and what people want. Naturally however these stories can be less major in worldly impact and can be much more minimal, so the workload does vary, there is a huge difference between a side story going on in already existing maps, as opposed to what we currently have, new map plus new segment of the player story. As for there being no easy solution, that is pretty obvious isn't it? What I'm more so trying to point out is that, Living Events is great especially in concept, but they are not a perfect solution as an alternative to quests. Alternative story arcs offer something nice to supplement the world. GW2 is partially about forming stories. A story can be the Story of the Pact, equally it can be the story of an NPC, just as we have the story of our PC's. Thats all that thought really comes from. I love knowing what's going on with the main plot, but it would be nice to know whats going on on the smaller scale too, not EVERY adventure has to be OMG level after all ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 > @"Gotenks Jr.3752" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Gotenks Jr.3752" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > > > > > >casually enjoy the open world content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players. > > > > > > > > > Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around. > > > > > > > > > The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progress > > > > > > > > > no casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke. > > > > > > > If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode. > > > > > > > > Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES. > > > > > > I haven't followed this chain of conversation, however I will state that the balance of direct story telling and indirect story telling / things to do, feels too spread. I still say the game should have Personal Story (for the character so that includes living story) and at minimum Regional Story for the major races or factions. I loved what was done with Calagbolg for example. Would be nice to see more little things like that. > > > > Having stuff by race and factions means 3 or 5 times the work respectively. People who don't have enough content are going to have less content, so I'm not in favor of that. As for the specific balance of what comes out and what doesn't, someone is always going to have a problem with it. Change the way it works now, which I'm mostly satisfied with and maybe I'd no longer be satisfied. That's really the issue. There are no easy answers to what content can be made, and what people want. > > Naturally however these stories can be less major in worldly impact and can be much more minimal, so the workload does vary, there is a huge difference between a side story going on in already existing maps, as opposed to what we currently have, new map plus new segment of the player story. As for there being no easy solution, that is pretty obvious isn't it? What I'm more so trying to point out is that, Living Events is great especially in concept, but they are not a perfect solution as an alternative to quests. Alternative story arcs offer something nice to supplement the world. GW2 is partially about forming stories. A story can be the Story of the Pact, equally it can be the story of an NPC, just as we have the story of our PC's. Thats all that thought really comes from. I love knowing what's going on with the main plot, but it would be nice to know whats going on on the smaller scale too, not EVERY adventure has to be OMG level after all ^^ I don't disagree, but the quests need to be for everyone, not divided among race or faction lines. I mean, you can still tell those stories without that sort of division is all I'm saying. Season 2 and HOT gave us a lot about the Sylvari. No reason they can't make side quests that call attention to anything. After all, the personal story is about the separate factions coming together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amineo.8951 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. I know that FFXIV and WoW are subscription based games, but people are buying gems in GW2, nonetheless the content delivery pace isn't good compared to Heart of Thorns, we had 3 raid wings which were released with a 3-4 months wait between each before the 4th one which was released 7 months after Fortress of the Faithful, then 9 months and a half for the Underworld raid wing in PoF... Don't get me wrong I like GW2 but the game is gonna die at this rate, the casuals cannot make for a good sustain of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 > @"Amineo.8951" said: > I know that FFXIV and WoW are subscription based games, but people are buying gems in GW2, nonetheless the content delivery pace isn't good compared to Heart of Thorns, we had 3 raid wings which were released with a 3-4 months wait between each before the 4th one which was released 7 months after Fortress of the Faithful, then 9 months and a half for the Underworld raid wing in PoF... Again, if you think that first 3 wings took 2-4 months to make each, you weren't paying attention. They started doing all 3 of them long before HoT was even released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 > @"Amineo.8951" said: > By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. > > I know that FFXIV and WoW are subscription based games, but people are buying gems in GW2, nonetheless the content delivery pace isn't good compared to Heart of Thorns, we had 3 raid wings which were released with a 3-4 months wait between each before the 4th one which was released 7 months after Fortress of the Faithful, then 9 months and a half for the Underworld raid wing in PoF... > The first three were never going to be an accurate representation for the realistic pace > Don't get me wrong I like GW2 but the game is gonna die at this rate, the casuals cannot make for a good sustain of this game. They sustained it before raids where a thing. So I don't really know where this is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 > @"Amineo.8951" said: > Don't get me wrong I like GW2 but the game is gonna die at this rate, the casuals cannot make for a good sustain of this game. NCSoft earning reports are pretty solid for GW2. Numbers are decreasing but not at an alarming rate (about 16% less) which is not surprising if we keep in mind that the last expansion was last year in autumn. As long as there are whales and a lot of people that spend around 100$ per month according to the latest reddit thread I read this game isn't going to bleed out so fast. I was shocked when I noticed how much money people are spending. Even though I have a well-payed job and don't play casually I would never invest money into a game on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"Amineo.8951" said: > By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. Path of Fire was released on September 22nd 2017, it has been 11 months since then. The expansion was released with 5 zones and since then we got 3 more, 2 Fractals, 1 Raid wing and 1 new mount. I'm curious now, you are saying that in a similar 11 month time frame FFXIV got 12 new Raid wings? And how many zones compared to the latest expansion? I don't know that's why I'm asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsleep.7839 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Amineo.8951" said: > > By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. > > Path of Fire was released on September 22nd 2017, it has been 11 months since then. The expansion was released with 5 zones and since then we got 3 more, 2 Fractals, 1 Raid wing and 1 new mount. I'm curious now, you are saying that in a similar 11 month time frame FFXIV got 12 new Raid wings? And how many zones compared to the latest expansion? I don't know that's why I'm asking. 12 tiers might be an exaggeration, but to answer you, since when around PoF launched, FFXIV added: - Around 15 hours of main story content. - 4 Dungeons. - 5 bosses with normal and extreme modes. - 4 raid bosses with normal and savage modes. - 2 24-man raids. (casual oriented content) - 2 ultimate difficulty raid encounters. - 2 new open world'ish areas related to the relics. Something like the legendaries in gw2. - A LOT of side stuff that mostly matters to lore fans and/or active crafters. If they follow the same schedule they did for the last three major patches the next patch will be on 9/11, adding two dungeons, one trial boss, four raid bosses and one new area to the relic and more main story and side stuff plus a bunch of new crafting stuff. This is what was added, the previous raid tier, that came with the release of the expansion, was relevant until around the New Year. The Roller Beetle was actually the only thing other games never had an equivalent that was released at a better pacing and questionably superior quality compared to WoW and FFXIV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"nsleep.7839" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Amineo.8951" said: > > > By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. > > > > Path of Fire was released on September 22nd 2017, it has been 11 months since then. The expansion was released with 5 zones and since then we got 3 more, 2 Fractals, 1 Raid wing and 1 new mount. I'm curious now, you are saying that in a similar 11 month time frame FFXIV got 12 new Raid wings? And how many zones compared to the latest expansion? I don't know that's why I'm asking. > > 12 tiers might be an exaggeration, but to answer you, since when around PoF launched, FFXIV added: > > - Around 15 hours of main story content. > - 4 Dungeons. > - 5 bosses with normal and extreme modes. > - 4 raid bosses with normal and savage modes. > - 2 24-man raids. (casual oriented content) > - 2 ultimate difficulty raid encounters. > - 2 new open world'ish areas related to the relics. Something like the legendaries in gw2. > - A LOT of side stuff that mostly matters to lore fans and/or active crafters. > > If they follow the same schedule they did for the last three major patches the next patch will be on 9/11, adding two dungeons, one trial boss, four raid bosses and one new area to the relic and more main story and side stuff plus a bunch of new crafting stuff. This is what was added, the previous raid tier, that came with the release of the expansion, was relevant until around the New Year. > > The Roller Beetle was actually the only thing other games never had an equivalent that was released at a better pacing and questionably superior quality compared to WoW and FFXIV. As expected, lots of instanced content there for FFXIV, the entire list with the exception of the 2 open world zones is instanced content. I think the priorities here are rather clear and comparing how much instanced content a game is releasing compared to another one, when one game has mass priority on instanced content while the other is based on open world is very unfair. Or someone could turn it around and say that GW2 released more open world zones (3) than FFXIV (2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsleep.7839 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"nsleep.7839" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Amineo.8951" said: > > > > By the time we get one raid wing, FFXIV gets 12 raid tiers with normal and savage difficulties, I don't know about WoW but I'm pretty sure it's even more and I'm not counting all the dungeons and alliance raids either which are significant aswell. > > > > > > Path of Fire was released on September 22nd 2017, it has been 11 months since then. The expansion was released with 5 zones and since then we got 3 more, 2 Fractals, 1 Raid wing and 1 new mount. I'm curious now, you are saying that in a similar 11 month time frame FFXIV got 12 new Raid wings? And how many zones compared to the latest expansion? I don't know that's why I'm asking. > > > > 12 tiers might be an exaggeration, but to answer you, since when around PoF launched, FFXIV added: > > > > - Around 15 hours of main story content. > > - 4 Dungeons. > > - 5 bosses with normal and extreme modes. > > - 4 raid bosses with normal and savage modes. > > - 2 24-man raids. (casual oriented content) > > - 2 ultimate difficulty raid encounters. > > - 2 new open world'ish areas related to the relics. Something like the legendaries in gw2. > > - A LOT of side stuff that mostly matters to lore fans and/or active crafters. > > > > If they follow the same schedule they did for the last three major patches the next patch will be on 9/11, adding two dungeons, one trial boss, four raid bosses and one new area to the relic and more main story and side stuff plus a bunch of new crafting stuff. This is what was added, the previous raid tier, that came with the release of the expansion, was relevant until around the New Year. > > > > The Roller Beetle was actually the only thing other games never had an equivalent that was released at a better pacing and questionably superior quality compared to WoW and FFXIV. > > As expected, lots of instanced content there for FFXIV, the entire list with the exception of the 2 open world zones is instanced content. I think the priorities here are rather clear and comparing how much instanced content a game is releasing compared to another one, when one game has mass priority on instanced content while the other is based on open world is very unfair. Or someone could turn it around and say that GW2 released more open world zones (3) than FFXIV (2) For players who like open world gw2 is probably one of the best mmos in the market for that, if not the best. Even if the two newer maps aren't good and Istan is basically the farm zone, the game is known for having good open world content compared to other games. Oh, I forgot something else that was released too, a procedurally generated 100 floors dungeon. Yes, it's more instanced content, and mostly reused assets so not sure if this counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzysztof.5973 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. > > Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. > > New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. 1 raid wing per episode seems quite unbalanced with the rest of the game. If the story patches where at the 2 month cadence I think one each third patch seems fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > > > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. > > > > Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. > > > > New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. > > 1 raid wing per episode seems quite unbalanced with the rest of the game. If the story patches where at the 2 month cadence I think one each third patch seems fair One each 3rd patch would be at best every 6 months, sometimes 9+ months. You know as good as me that Anet will never be even close to consistently release a LS episode every 2 months. And even if they could do 6 months for the current wing size of 1 easy boss, 1 hard(ish) boss and 2 boring events is unacceptable for many people. 2-4 months per raid wing would be ideal to keep the raid community alive. Everything else will keep it stagnating at best, probably degenerating like now. Especially if each new expansion does not bring something big such as a new legendary raid armor to look forward to. The ring is not keeping many people interested. The 9+ months to even see the next collection for it is probably killing the rest of any motivation. I also do not see how it is unbalanced in any way to have a new raid wing every LS episode. The raid wings are already tiny and probably just need a fraction of the development effort they spend on the LS episode itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > > > > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. > > > > > > Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. > > > > > > New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. > > > > 1 raid wing per episode seems quite unbalanced with the rest of the game. If the story patches where at the 2 month cadence I think one each third patch seems fair > > One each 3rd patch would be at best every 6 months, sometimes 9+ months. You know as good as me that Anet will never be even close to consistently release a LS episode every 2 months. And even if they could do 6 months for the current wing size of 1 easy boss, 1 hard(ish) boss and 2 boring events is unacceptable for many people. 2-4 months per raid wing would be ideal to keep the raid community alive. Everything else will keep it stagnating at best, probably degenerating like now. Especially if each new expansion does not bring something big such as a new legendary raid armor to look forward to. The ring is not keeping many people interested. The 9+ months to even see the next collection for it is probably killing the rest of any motivation. > > I also do not see how it is unbalanced in any way to have a new raid wing every LS episode. The raid wings are already tiny and probably just need a fraction of the development effort they spend on the LS episode itself. We'll honestly 2-4 months is probably to much for the general community to handle. i agree that expecting arenanet to have ls every 2 months is quite a high hurdle but i consider 7.5 months per wing barely acceptable. The bigger problem is the not knowing. it probably is also a mayor reason for the decline. The reason it's unbalanced is because then we would need a new fractal also and a patch for PvP and WvW (i know these last ones now also don't happen but that is what would be balanced) and i don't believe they would be able to sustain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I mean we can compaire them and say what gets what but everything boils down in hours of playtime that content provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > > > > > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. > > > > > > > > Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. > > > > > > > > New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. > > > > > > 1 raid wing per episode seems quite unbalanced with the rest of the game. If the story patches where at the 2 month cadence I think one each third patch seems fair > > > > One each 3rd patch would be at best every 6 months, sometimes 9+ months. You know as good as me that Anet will never be even close to consistently release a LS episode every 2 months. And even if they could do 6 months for the current wing size of 1 easy boss, 1 hard(ish) boss and 2 boring events is unacceptable for many people. 2-4 months per raid wing would be ideal to keep the raid community alive. Everything else will keep it stagnating at best, probably degenerating like now. Especially if each new expansion does not bring something big such as a new legendary raid armor to look forward to. The ring is not keeping many people interested. The 9+ months to even see the next collection for it is probably killing the rest of any motivation. > > > > I also do not see how it is unbalanced in any way to have a new raid wing every LS episode. The raid wings are already tiny and probably just need a fraction of the development effort they spend on the LS episode itself. > > We'll honestly 2-4 months is probably to much for the general community to handle. > i agree that expecting arenanet to have ls every 2 months is quite a high hurdle but i consider 7.5 months per wing barely acceptable. > > The bigger problem is the not knowing. it probably is also a mayor reason for the decline. > > The reason it's unbalanced is because then we would need a new fractal also and a patch for PvP and WvW (i know these last ones now also don't happen but that is what would be balanced) and i don't believe they would be able to sustain that. What do we not know? We know Anet did not cancel raid development, they are just super slow about it. And 7.5months is unsustainable for groups. In my 1600 LIs I saw many guilds/statics raise and fall again because a lot of people just cannot stay interested if they get nothing new for half a year or more. And when there is something new it is usually so easy that you full clear it on the first week already and after a month you are just working on perfecting the strategy. I really miss having bosses which take dozens of hours to figure out. Even the top groups should not be able to full clear a new raid wing in the first week (unless they were beta testers maybe). But if I recall right even Dhuum CM was beaten on first week. And having both fractals and raids would be easy if Anet had more than one tiny team in charge for both modes. It is really insulting tbh. Around W4 release they were even training a 2nd raid dev team which somehow disappeared into thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsleep.7839 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said: > > > > > > With each new week I stand stronger in my conviction that they should make an announcement they officially stop spending resources on raids. It's been 261 days since release of Hall of Chains and 294 days between 4 and 5. The view of waiting another 300 days for Wing 7 makes me get the rope. Community suggested a million ways how to sort this out so the wait would not be so painful. Sometimes the right thing to do is just give up, and maybe that's what Anet should do. It's not working out for them or us. Casual part of the community cant be bothered with raids and veterans like myself who is here since wing 1 release has no reason to stay. I've seen guilds die out because there is no new content to satisfy us. It's the right time to think things through and stop pretending that everything is fine. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, guilds/statics dieing because of slow release cadence is the main problem. There needs to be one new raid wing per LS episode or the raid community will fall further and further apart instead of growing. > > > > > > > > > > New fractals that are easy even on T4 without any CM are no help either. > > > > > > > > 1 raid wing per episode seems quite unbalanced with the rest of the game. If the story patches where at the 2 month cadence I think one each third patch seems fair > > > > > > One each 3rd patch would be at best every 6 months, sometimes 9+ months. You know as good as me that Anet will never be even close to consistently release a LS episode every 2 months. And even if they could do 6 months for the current wing size of 1 easy boss, 1 hard(ish) boss and 2 boring events is unacceptable for many people. 2-4 months per raid wing would be ideal to keep the raid community alive. Everything else will keep it stagnating at best, probably degenerating like now. Especially if each new expansion does not bring something big such as a new legendary raid armor to look forward to. The ring is not keeping many people interested. The 9+ months to even see the next collection for it is probably killing the rest of any motivation. > > > > > > I also do not see how it is unbalanced in any way to have a new raid wing every LS episode. The raid wings are already tiny and probably just need a fraction of the development effort they spend on the LS episode itself. > > > > We'll honestly 2-4 months is probably to much for the general community to handle. > > i agree that expecting arenanet to have ls every 2 months is quite a high hurdle but i consider 7.5 months per wing barely acceptable. > > > > The bigger problem is the not knowing. it probably is also a mayor reason for the decline. > > > > The reason it's unbalanced is because then we would need a new fractal also and a patch for PvP and WvW (i know these last ones now also don't happen but that is what would be balanced) and i don't believe they would be able to sustain that. > > What do we not know? We know Anet did not cancel raid development, they are just super slow about it. And 7.5months is unsustainable for groups. In my 1600 LIs I saw many guilds/statics raise and fall again because a lot of people just cannot stay interested if they get nothing new for half a year or more. And when there is something new it is usually so easy that you full clear it on the first week already and after a month you are just working on perfecting the strategy. > I really miss having bosses which take dozens of hours to figure out. Even the top groups should not be able to full clear a new raid wing in the first week (unless they were beta testers maybe). But if I recall right even Dhuum CM was beaten on first week. Are you talking about GW2? Because the raid bosses have always been this easy, what changed is that we, the players, figured out how to do sustained damage way above the requirements for each fight and got better at the game on top of that. The average raider from today would be considered a higher tier player back in 2016. Because of that, without a significant difficulty spike in both mechanics complexity or dps checks we won't be seeing any raid wing last more than 48 hours. The fact that Dhuum CM wasn't downed first day is probably because it took longer to figure a comp than actually executing the fight and the fact that some mechanics ij this fight are "hard" because they feel janky af. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 If I remember well, Anet advertised for GW2 as a totally different game from any other MMO. Raids were added a considerable time later under the pressure of making money and under the protest of many veteran players then, so I don´t find it exactly surprising that they are not supported enough to fulfill the requirements of hardcore raiders as a main game. My personal guess is that Anet simply has neither the resources or manpower to satisfy the need of PvP, WvW, casual PvE and raid PvE all at once. Open World PvE comes first, it has to come first to satisfy the majority of players and probably also the majority of whales. PvP came first for a while, but it bombed. WvW always comes last, so hardcore PvE probably sits at second place in priorities right now, but it may temporarily sink to third place when WvW gets overhauled. Pretty good for a game mode that was never planned if you ask me, but of course insufficient if you´re here for that mode only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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