Zerker Soulbeast meta not an issue for anyone in wvw?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"geist.9173" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > You know that there is more than one gold veteran per server, right? **Stop trying another strawman here**.

> >

> > yeah..

> >

> >

>

> Pretty much this. Yes. Your class isn't suddenly unplayable when you can't oneshot people from stealth. As stated a hundred times. If you want to oneshot people, you should expect to be oneshot too. And you always should sacrifice a lot of tools to be able to. At the moment this isn't the case. You don't lose access to stealth, you still can dodge, you have your shadowstep, etc. Zero trade-off.

 

how much damage is ok? if oneshots shouldnt exist at all then no skill should be dealing more than 10k damage to a berserk ele. do you know how much that does to a minstrel guard?

being able to oneshot rather tanky specs is in a groupfight usually overkill and therefor inefficient, this makes very high oneshot potential only usefull in 1 vs X and uncoordinated fights. but that is a rather niche usage in a team based competitive mode.

what do you as a necro give up for huge AoE damage and corrupts? nothing that inherrent to your class. high single target damage and many tools to avoid incoming hits or combat is inherrent to the thief your correct by just having that i dont actively nerf myself, i dont give something up. but like you on your necro lack what makes a great roamer, a thief lacks many tools that would be usefull in group fights, especially in large group fights. again just profession difference.

why do you even think in professions, i mean just look at it as player A and player B. you choose of all what the game has a necro to roam , i choose a thief to roam. you could aswell picked the thief , you didnt you did sacrifice that choice for a necro for what ever weird reason you would do that when you want to roam. i sacrifised being a necro, wanted in groups and picked over it a thief as when roaming i dont need the necros qualities.

you seem to really think i care for thief as such, i dont care at all about it. they could aswell make a next elite spec for necro that is aweseome for roaming and i would play that. but i doubt they will manage because of the core design. i choose my class depending on the tools it offers for the task ahead. that i mostly play thief is only because i mostly solo roam. during my gw2 time i played half a year nearly exclusively PvE, there i mostly played ele for example. i dont care about 1 specific profession. so please stop trying to get the conversation to me defending 'my' profession, its tiring.

yet i think the problem could aswell be that you are too set on necro. or is there another reason why you choose to solo roam as necro?

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > > You know that there is more than one gold veteran per server, right? **Stop trying another strawman here**.

> > >

> > > yeah..

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Pretty much this. Yes. Your class isn't suddenly unplayable when you can't oneshot people from stealth. As stated a hundred times. If you want to oneshot people, you should expect to be oneshot too. And you always should sacrifice a lot of tools to be able to. At the moment this isn't the case. You don't lose access to stealth, you still can dodge, you have your shadowstep, etc. Zero trade-off.

>

> how much damage is ok? if oneshots shouldnt exist at all then no skill should be dealing more than 10k damage to a berserk ele. do you know how much that does to a minstrel guard?

> being able to oneshot rather tanky specs is in a groupfight usually overkill and therefor inefficient, this makes very high oneshot potential only usefull in 1 vs X and uncoordinated fights. but that is a rather niche usage in a team based competitive mode.

> what do you as a necro give up for huge AoE damage and corrupts? nothing that inherrent to your class. high single target damage and many tools to avoid incoming hits or combat is inherrent to the thief your correct by just having that i dont actively nerf myself, i dont give something up. but like you on your necro lack what makes a great roamer, a thief lacks many tools that would be usefull in group fights, especially in large group fights. again just profession difference.

> why do you even think in professions, i mean just look at it as player A and player B. ***you choose of all what the game has a necro to roam , i choose a thief to roam. you could aswell picked the thief , you didnt you did sacrifice that choice for a necro for what ever weird reason you would do that when you want to roam.*** i sacrifised being a necro, wanted in groups and picked over it a thief as when roaming i dont need the necros qualities.

> you seem to really think i care for thief as such, i dont care at all about it. they could aswell make a next elite spec for necro that is aweseome for roaming and i would play that. but i doubt they will manage because of the core design. ***i choose my class depending on the tools it offers for the task ahead. that i mostly play thief is only because i mostly solo roam. during my gw2 time i played half a year nearly exclusively PvE, there i mostly played ele for example.*** i dont care about 1 specific profession. so please stop trying to get the conversation to me defending 'my' profession, its tiring.

> yet i think the problem could aswell be that you are too set on necro. or is there another reason why you choose to solo roam as necro?

 

Well said. The boldest parts in particular.

 

I cannot understand why people either expect a mode based around large scale encounters, where small scale is an anomaly, to be balanced around 1v1.

 

There are more viable options in roaming right now than there have been in a long time.

 

And there are actually more viable classes in large scale than there have been in a awhile.

 

Even the free version of the game gives you two character slots, never mind 5 in the core version.

 

Don't bring a paint brush when you need a damn saw.

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"geist.9173" said:

> > Just because you can get killed from stealth doesn't mean you haven't options to avoid. You can get invuln over signet, you have high mobility and the highest range in the game which additionally is unblockable.

> >

> > This things here still happen. And I still don't understand why such things aren't nerfed in a day.

> >

> > 

> >

>

> For one, this screenshot is not from the current iteration of DE. That's from before the rework. now it would read:

>

> xxx's critically hits you for 19,001 using [Malicious Backstab].

 

That screenshot is from last saturday. Nice try.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > Just because you can get killed from stealth doesn't mean you haven't options to avoid. You can get invuln over signet, you have high mobility and the highest range in the game which additionally is unblockable.

> > >

> > > This things here still happen. And I still don't understand why such things aren't nerfed in a day.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > For one, this screenshot is not from the current iteration of DE. That's from before the rework. now it would read:

> >

> > xxx's critically hits you for 19,001 using [Malicious Backstab].

>

> That screenshot is from last saturday. Nice try.

 

its more like, a good deadeye would have used another skill, giving you less chance to react and probably even dealing more damage.

(thats is were turk is a little wrong. with 21k DJ, the MBackstab would be higher than 19k)

[Mokk.2397]

I read about half of this thread and couldn't stop laughing . All those people that say that ranger has no place in the current meta complaining that ranger is Over Powered because they get "Pew_Pew'd". Did you even consider maybe bringing your own rangers into your so called "Meta" to counter the opponents rangers. If you feel that bringing a knife to a gun fight and loosing is unfair try different tactics. Instead of bigotry maybe you should try inclusion. It's your current Meta that has no place in WvW. Stop blaming classes for dumb tactics.

Now that ranger has finally been brought up to an equal footing and is no longer a push over and free bag ,you can't handle it.Makes me laugh.Seems to me the only people being lazy and complaining are the Meta zealots .

[coro.3176]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> I read about half of this thread and couldn't stop laughing . All those people that say that ranger has no place in the current meta complaining that ranger is Over Powered because they get "Pew_Pew'd". Did you even consider maybe bringing your own rangers into your so called "Meta" to counter the opponents rangers. If you feel that bringing a knife to a gun fight and loosing is unfair try different tactics. Instead of bigotry maybe you should try inclusion. It's your current Meta that has no place in WvW. Stop blaming classes for dumb tactics.

> Now that ranger has finally been brought up to an equal footing and is no longer a push over and free bag ,you can't handle it.Makes me laugh.Seems to me the only people being lazy and complaining are the Meta zealots .

 

The point is, NO ONE should be pew-pew-ing with 7k+ hits from that (bugged) range, certainly not with autoattacks or a 1-second quickness-unblockable 40k skill. It's not interactive for the attacker and it's not interactive for the defender. It's bad gameplay no matter who does it. Bringing more soulbeasts just makes it worse. The best counters to it are equally cheesy like stealth-camping deadeye. It just makes the game worse.

[Mokk.2397]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > I read about half of this thread and couldn't stop laughing . All those people that say that ranger has no place in the current meta complaining that ranger is Over Powered because they get "Pew_Pew'd". Did you even consider maybe bringing your own rangers into your so called "Meta" to counter the opponents rangers. If you feel that bringing a knife to a gun fight and loosing is unfair try different tactics. Instead of bigotry maybe you should try inclusion. It's your current Meta that has no place in WvW. Stop blaming classes for dumb tactics.

> > Now that ranger has finally been brought up to an equal footing and is no longer a push over and free bag ,you can't handle it.Makes me laugh.Seems to me the only people being lazy and complaining are the Meta zealots .

>

> The point is, NO ONE should be pew-pew-ing with 7k+ hits from that (bugged) range, certainly not with autoattacks or a 1-second quickness-unblockable 40k skill. It's not interactive for the attacker and it's not interactive for the defender. It's bad gameplay no matter who does it. Bringing more soulbeasts just makes it worse. The best counters to it are equally cheesy like stealth-camping deadeye. It just makes the game worse.

 

I really don't know where your getting your figures from ,because I run zerkers and have never achieved these numbers with long bow.EVER.Even with buffs ansd boons Stop making up numbers Who do you think your BSing .Maybe on someone with no armor on .But if your going to run with no armor or zerker and get hit with such numbers the problem is You not the ranger class.I've been hit with ludicrous numbers from other classes as well but don't complain about it because I know what I have sacrificed nearly all my toughness to get higher damage.

As for the range maybe you should consider other "Over Powered" skills of other classes.Like teleporting up cliffs when other classes have to go the long way around .The elementalists 3 weapon swap. The excessive burst damage of the mesmer. 4 profession attacks of the scourge as opposed to 3 on other classes.We could go on and on all day listing .

All classes have their advantages and disadvantages. Now that ranger is brought to equal lever people suddenly complain about range after 6 six years?

Quit whining and change your build and put some armor on .

 

[coro.3176]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > @"coro.3176" said:

> > > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > > I read about half of this thread and couldn't stop laughing . All those people that say that ranger has no place in the current meta complaining that ranger is Over Powered because they get "Pew_Pew'd". Did you even consider maybe bringing your own rangers into your so called "Meta" to counter the opponents rangers. If you feel that bringing a knife to a gun fight and loosing is unfair try different tactics. Instead of bigotry maybe you should try inclusion. It's your current Meta that has no place in WvW. Stop blaming classes for dumb tactics.

> > > Now that ranger has finally been brought up to an equal footing and is no longer a push over and free bag ,you can't handle it.Makes me laugh.Seems to me the only people being lazy and complaining are the Meta zealots .

> >

> > The point is, NO ONE should be pew-pew-ing with 7k+ hits from that (bugged) range, certainly not with autoattacks or a 1-second quickness-unblockable 40k skill. It's not interactive for the attacker and it's not interactive for the defender. It's bad gameplay no matter who does it. Bringing more soulbeasts just makes it worse. The best counters to it are equally cheesy like stealth-camping deadeye. It just makes the game worse.

>

> I really don't know where your getting your figures from ,because I run zerkers and have never achieved these numbers with long bow.EVER.Even with buffs ansd boons Stop making up numbers Who do you think your BSing .Maybe on someone with no armor on .But if your going to run with no armor or zerker and get hit with such numbers the problem is You not the ranger class.I've been hit with ludicrous numbers from other classes as well but don't complain about it because I know what I have sacrificed nearly all my toughness to get higher damage.

> As for the range maybe you should consider other "Over Powered" skills of other classes.Like teleporting up cliffs when other classes have to go the long way around .The elementalists 3 weapon swap. The excessive burst damage of the mesmer. 4 profession attacks of the scourge as opposed to 3 on other classes.We could go on and on all day listing .

> All classes have their advantages and disadvantages. Now that ranger is brought to equal lever people suddenly complain about range after 6 six years?

> Quit whining and change your build and put some armor on .

>

 

Not making up numbers. See the video I posted earlier (although, granted that's with half-zerker gear). I assure you, I still take 5-7k Long Range Shots even in full Dire.

 

Also, as I posted before, I don't have issues killing rangers. I did change my build + armour. I currently run condi engi (probably one of the worst builds in WvW, btw) with scrapper for sneak gyro so I can stealth, close the distance with double rocket boots, then condi bomb them to the face - actually, need to do this twice because they do have some burst cleanse.

 

Again, as I posted before, the class isn't OP, but certain aspects are bad gameplay. 1800+ range 2-shot kills and 1-shot quicknessunblockable rapid fires are bad gameplay.

 

[Mokk.2397]

I looked at your video I saw one 5k but all others were 3 to 4 K on long shot.But no 7K .Rapid fire shows cumulative damage after each hit not the damage of each hit.So it takes a full 2 and a half seconds to get the cumulative 10k damage providing all shots hit.As for the 40k I don't know where that comes from .I can't do 40k with boons and buffs on NPCs .Also Its plain as day that your HP is 17363 that's berzerker HP on medium armor .I get a 21000 minimum with dire medium.So you were most definitely not wearing dire armor .The evidence is clear .So you were hit with around 6k crit with Point Blank Shot then a cumulative 10K with 2.5 second rapid fire.

As for bad game play that argument can be applied to many skills from other classes as I described before .Excessive stealth ,excessive clones ,excessive resistance,excessive stability,excessive blocks.Unstoppable union is 4 seconds upon entering beast mode which requires a full 20 seconds to cycle out then back in again .Many blocks last longer than 4 seconds including Defense Field.If you said that engineer needs better blocks then I would be inclined to agree. But its still not the rangers fault .A build is a build if its done without cheats and hacks theirs nothing that makes it bad game play .Theirs no difference in damage done at 1500 or at the end of an 1800 arc.The 1800 arc does not work on barrage only Long Range Shot ,Hunter's Shot and Rapid Fire .Even then it's impossible to do 1800 that unless the ranger is up high. Even then its easy to move out of range.In both cases in your video you were well within 1500 range.

Theirs no class or build that is invincible to all other classes or builds. Sorry but theirs no argument here.Ranger is well within reasonable spec.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

 

The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

 

You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

 

Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times), with stealth, evades, block, high mobility, high regen and sustain due to boonspam (perma regen and perma prot mainly), nasty soft and hard CC skills, crazy high damage and incredibility easy to pull off from safe range.

People say, don't make a range kite you and go melee!

If we talk about melee their damage is probably higher than ranged one and they can still pressure you at melee combat.

Or if they run sword/dagger they can evade a lot.

 

It's just the new cheesy spec of roaming that even noobs can abuse.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Sounds like people are upset that they lost their easy kill. Mesmer, good luck hunting that one down. Thief, next. Ranger, oh boy easy kill!!! Now that Ranger has some teeth, people want to nerf it. Have to have at least one class you can get all excited about taking down when you see it. Right?

[Turk.5460]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

>

> The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

>

> You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

>

> Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times)

 

It's actually 1875 *at all times* and 2200+ many times...

[Mokk.2397]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

> >

> > The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

> >

> > You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

> >

> > Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times)

>

> It's actually 1875 *at all times* and 2200+ many times...

 

That is absolute bunk . 2200 is 300 short of arrow cart range .Long bow cant hit a damn thing at +2200 .People are just pulling numbers out of their back sides without any evidence what so ever.I run ranger as my main and have done since Guild Wars 2 started .Run my own tests and have not achieved anything better than 1800.If what you are saying was true then I should be able to hit anything from height in desert border lands .That is simply not true.And how can you say noob friendly usage.Its a legitimate build like all other legitimate builds.By your logic bunker is a noob build .That would say every commander ,every front runner and just about every elementalist is using noob builds.What about a support heal build .No risk there.As I said before a build is a build. As long as it falls within the parameters of the game theirs nothing wrong with it.Even by your logic all Meta builds people are pulling off other web sites are noob builds.They take no risk or testing on the part of the individual player to establish. The only real noobs here are the people who can't find a way to fight different builds without trying to get nerfs.Besides as a class cannon I take my beatings just as much as I dish them out so please spare us all the BS about no risk .As I stated before Elementalist has just as many questionable traits and skills.In fact all classes have questionable traits and skills .Are all those people noobs as well for using them?When it comes to contol effects ele.warrior,guardian,and mesmer have by far more control effects available to them at any given time then the ranger does .And most of ones that ranger do have are pet orientated and nearly impossible to predict or control .The regen that rangers do have is not as great as people proclaim because much of it is pet orientated and unpredictable.Ele and guardian and engi have far more controllable regen available.Eles and guardian have by far more predictable and controllable protection available then ranger.As for whining because you got picked off from a distance ,that's a part of the game .By peoples logic only melee is the legitimate way to play this game. Maybe it would be better to take away every trait ,skill and weapon from every class and just use clubs capped at 10 damage.Then we can all be melee and do the same damage.Wonder how long the game would last.I give it a day tops.

[bigo.9037]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

>

> The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

>

> You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

>

> Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times), with stealth, evades, block, high mobility, high regen and sustain due to boonspam (perma regen and perma prot mainly), nasty soft and hard CC skills, crazy high damage and incredibility easy to pull off from safe range.

> People say, don't make a range kite you and go melee!

> If we talk about melee their damage is probably higher than ranged one and they can still pressure you at melee combat.

> Or if they run sword/dagger they can evade a lot.

>

> It's just the new cheesy spec of roaming that even noobs can abuse.

 

ranger is only noobfriendly in terms of range. to pull anything else meaningful off like the survivability you need coordinate your skills a lot more. I have mained ranger since I started. every time I see a 1 hit ranger or a ranger tries to kill me with his duel build I destroy them. they play really bad and get rekt by most other specs when I see them cus they suck.

 

but you ARE correct that GOOD rangers are OP because they can utilize everything the class has to offer. if you pull off the rotations correctly and your opponent makes mistakes it's extremely effective at punishing them for those mistakes.

 

@"whoknocks.4935" I think you've been rather unlucky with the soulbeasts you're facing tbh. most of the ones I see are complete trash who not good for anything but 1upping a fight that was already started.

 

edit fixing typos cus I'm writing this on my phone

 

[coro.3176]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> I looked at your video I saw one 5k but all others were 3 to 4 K on long shot.But no 7K .Rapid fire shows cumulative damage after each hit not the damage of each hit.So it takes a full 2 and a half seconds to get the cumulative 10k damage providing all shots hit.As for the 40k I don't know where that comes from .I can't do 40k with boons and buffs on NPCs .Also Its plain as day that your HP is 17363 that's berzerker HP on medium armor .I get a 21000 minimum with dire medium.So you were most definitely not wearing dire armor .The evidence is clear .So you were hit with around 6k crit with Point Blank Shot then a cumulative 10K with 2.5 second rapid fire.

 

It's a 6.5k crit with PBS.

 

PBS does 308 (0.8) damage

LRS does 347 (0.9) damage

 

If PBS does 6.5k, we can safely assume LRS does 7.5k or more. As I mentioned, that was probably a mix of Berserker with a few Soldier pieces. However, I have taken 7k autos on Dire. I haven't been WvW-ing as much recently, but next time I'm out, I'll try and remember to get a screenshot for you.

 

Also, that's not 10k with a 2.5s rapid fire. That rapid fire did 11k+ damage in 3 hits with quickness. That would make it a ~30k rapid fire in ~1.8s.

 

It does 10k in about 500ms.

 

 

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > > > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

> > >

> > > The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

> > >

> > > You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

> > >

> > > Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times)

> >

> > It's actually 1875 *at all times* and 2200+ many times...

>

> That is absolute bunk . 2200 is 300 short of arrow cart range .Long bow cant hit a kitten thing at +2200 .People are just pulling numbers out of their back sides without any evidence what so ever.I run ranger as my main and have done since Guild Wars 2 started .Run my own tests and have not achieved anything better than 1800.If what you are saying was true then I should be able to hit anything from height in desert border lands .That is simply not true.And how can you say noob friendly usage.Its a legitimate build like all other legitimate builds.By your logic bunker is a noob build .That would say every commander ,every front runner and just about every elementalist is using noob builds.What about a support heal build .No risk there.As I said before a build is a build. As long as it falls within the parameters of the game theirs nothing wrong with it.Even by your logic all Meta builds people are pulling off other web sites are noob builds.They take no risk or testing on the part of the individual player to establish. The only real noobs here are the people who can't find a way to fight different builds without trying to get nerfs.Besides as a class cannon I take my beatings just as much as I dish them out so please spare us all the BS about no risk .As I stated before Elementalist has just as many questionable traits and skills.In fact all classes have questionable traits and skills .Are all those people noobs as well for using them?When it comes to contol effects ele.warrior,guardian,and mesmer have by far more control effects available to them at any given time then the ranger does .And most of ones that ranger do have are pet orientated and nearly impossible to predict or control .The regen that rangers do have is not as great as people proclaim because much of it is pet orientated and unpredictable.Ele and guardian and engi have far more controllable regen available.Eles and guardian have by far more predictable and controllable protection available then ranger.As for whining because you got picked off from a distance ,that's a part of the game .By peoples logic only melee is the legitimate way to play this game. Maybe it would be better to take away every trait ,skill and weapon from every class and just use clubs capped at 10 damage.Then we can all be melee and do the same damage.Wonder how long the game would last.I give it a day tops.

 

I don't know who you're talking about with the rest of your post, as I said none of those things. However, you are very incorrect regarding your thoughts on the range, I'm simply stating a fact as recorded on multiple videos that have been posted in quite a few different subforums. 1875 is the *even terrain* range of LongBow, meaning on flat ground, no movement - regardless of how the tooltip says its 1500. The tooltip has been proven to be incorrect. On top of this, the range only increases as elevation increases. No, it won't go to an infinite range as you get higher, it does have a hard cut-off, but that's around 2200. That type of range for that type of damage is *insane, * but unfortunately ANET won't comment on the subject it seems, even after being provided multiple counts of video evidence.

 

Here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

> >

> > The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

> >

> > You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

> >

> > Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times), with stealth, evades, block, high mobility, high regen and sustain due to boonspam (perma regen and perma prot mainly), nasty soft and hard CC skills, crazy high damage and incredibility easy to pull off from safe range.

> > People say, don't make a range kite you and go melee!

> > If we talk about melee their damage is probably higher than ranged one and they can still pressure you at melee combat.

> > Or if they run sword/dagger they can evade a lot.

> >

> > It's just the new cheesy spec of roaming that even noobs can abuse.

>

> ranger is only noobfriendly in terms of range. to pull anything else meaningful off like the survivability you need coordinate your skills a lot more. I have mained ranger since I started. every time I see a 1 hit ranger or a ranger tries to kill me with his duel build I destroy them. they play really bad and get rekt by most other specs when I see them cus they suck.

>

> but you ARE correct that GOOD rangers are OP because they can utilize everything the class has to offer. if you pull off the rotations correctly and your opponent makes mistakes it's extremely effective at punishing them for those mistakes.

>

> @"whoknocks.4935" I think you've been rather unlucky with the soulbeasts you're facing tbh. most of the ones I see are complete trash who not good for anything but 1upping a fight that was already started.

>

> edit fixing typos cus I'm writing this on my phone

>

 

I killed plenty of soulbeasts, but what I hate the most is the noob friendly and low risk aspect of the profession.

 

It is true a good soulbeast can utilise the class at his max and punish you for your mistakes a lot, but this is true with any profession you play, if you are on your main.

 

But in many cases the profession does 90% of the job for you.

Druid for example is the top number 1 profession on what I am referring too.

You can afford to commit multiple and several mistakes and still win because carried by the profession and not by your personal skill.

 

One day I was dueling a druid who was a bit condi oriented, probably a weird hybrid build.

 

I was playing core full zerk warrior, pretty simple and easy standard dueling profession.

 

Many people watched us dueling, I literally landed every single stun I have, the fight was so long and this guy was dodging on my autoattacks instead of dodging my stuns, I landed every single eviscerate and arcing slice, I had perma 3ah all the fight, but him having perma protection, keeping me perma poisoned, as soon he was 15% health, pop celestial avatar off cooldown, stealth, exit out of stealth always 100% health in 3-4 seconds, and he kept doing this for maybe 2-3 minutes when he finally downed me because of stupid condis working on me plus sustained damage from the stupid pet.

 

Every single guy who saw us dueling was shocked how badly and poorly he played and still managed to win just because of how brainless his profession is, he didn't deserve the win at all, yeah i died, he beat me, but this doesn't mean he is better than me or he has more skill than me, in this case seriously he was not even half my skill level, he switched to warrior after adfirming it was his main, and i did 10-0 on him and he started saying i turned on some weird tool because against his ranger i was so noob. But i had zero chances on that stupid druid build he was playing.

 

Why I told you this? Because soulbeast right now is just abused by everyone, and because of all the tools at his disposal, a worse player can beat a better one.

And the problem is almost nobody really runs full zerk with strength or pack runes, but a mix of marauder/zerk with dura runes can still achieve the damage to "oneshot" 100-0 plus having doubled sustain.

 

Instead of doing 40k rapid fire maybe you do 15-20k, the average health of every profession.

 

But as you said the worse ones just runs in duo or just wait to jump you and +1 for the easy kill because they are garbage.

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> Here:

> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view

 

Finally someone with video proofs of the stupid overrange of rangers.

 

It's so nasty to use mobility skilla especially in wvw for over 2k range and still get hit by rangers camping longbow and simply walking.

 

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Why I told you this? Because soulbeast right now is just abused by everyone, and because of all the tools at his disposal, a worse player can beat a better one.

that allways depends. if to be good also includes to choose a setup one has a good chance of winning with. i can run around on a lvl 2 staff ele and claim i am better than everyone i fight, they just are carried by running stronger builds then me. thats awesome, but am i actually better at the game then, if i keep dying and made a terrible choice in setup to fight other players?

 

 

 

 

[Mokk.2397]

I never said that were no discrepancies in range .As I pointed out I myself have tested a 1800 range from height. I do argue the over exaggeration of range.That video does not prove 1800 or a 1875 range let alone 2200 plus range.It only proves a slight increase in range over 1200 for point blank and 1500 for long range shot.The evidence in this video is weak at best.Not conclusive evidence of the exaggerated ranges of over 1800 to 2200 . If at some point that ANET sees a problem or someone conclusively proves ranges beyond 1800 from height or level ground I will stick with my own findings of a maximum of 1800 from a height greater than target.

[bigo.9037]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > > > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

> > >

> > > The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

> > >

> > > You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

> > >

> > > Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times), with stealth, evades, block, high mobility, high regen and sustain due to boonspam (perma regen and perma prot mainly), nasty soft and hard CC skills, crazy high damage and incredibility easy to pull off from safe range.

> > > People say, don't make a range kite you and go melee!

> > > If we talk about melee their damage is probably higher than ranged one and they can still pressure you at melee combat.

> > > Or if they run sword/dagger they can evade a lot.

> > >

> > > It's just the new cheesy spec of roaming that even noobs can abuse.

> >

> > ranger is only noobfriendly in terms of range. to pull anything else meaningful off like the survivability you need coordinate your skills a lot more. I have mained ranger since I started. every time I see a 1 hit ranger or a ranger tries to kill me with his duel build I destroy them. they play really bad and get rekt by most other specs when I see them cus they suck.

> >

> > but you ARE correct that GOOD rangers are OP because they can utilize everything the class has to offer. if you pull off the rotations correctly and your opponent makes mistakes it's extremely effective at punishing them for those mistakes.

> >

> > @"whoknocks.4935" I think you've been rather unlucky with the soulbeasts you're facing tbh. most of the ones I see are complete trash who not good for anything but 1upping a fight that was already started.

> >

> > edit fixing typos cus I'm writing this on my phone

> >

>

> I killed plenty of soulbeasts, but what I hate the most is the noob friendly and low risk aspect of the profession.

>

> It is true a good soulbeast can utilise the class at his max and punish you for your mistakes a lot, but this is true with any profession you play, if you are on your main.

>

> But in many cases the profession does 90% of the job for you.

> Druid for example is the top number 1 profession on what I am referring too.

> You can afford to commit multiple and several mistakes and still win because carried by the profession and not by your personal skill.

>

> One day I was dueling a druid who was a bit condi oriented, probably a weird hybrid build.

>

> I was playing core full zerk warrior, pretty simple and easy standard dueling profession.

>

> Many people watched us dueling, I literally landed every single stun I have, the fight was so long and this guy was dodging on my autoattacks instead of dodging my stuns, I landed every single eviscerate and arcing slice, I had perma 3ah all the fight, but him having perma protection, keeping me perma poisoned, as soon he was 15% health, pop celestial avatar off cooldown, stealth, exit out of stealth always 100% health in 3-4 seconds, and he kept doing this for maybe 2-3 minutes when he finally downed me because of stupid condis working on me plus sustained damage from the stupid pet.

>

> Every single guy who saw us dueling was shocked how badly and poorly he played and still managed to win just because of how brainless his profession is, he didn't deserve the win at all, yeah i died, he beat me, but this doesn't mean he is better than me or he has more skill than me, in this case seriously he was not even half my skill level, he switched to warrior after adfirming it was his main, and i did 10-0 on him and he started saying i turned on some weird tool because against his ranger i was so noob. But i had zero chances on that stupid druid build he was playing.

>

> Why I told you this? Because soulbeast right now is just abused by everyone, and because of all the tools at his disposal, a worse player can beat a better one.

> And the problem is almost nobody really runs full zerk with strength or pack runes, but a mix of marauder/zerk with dura runes can still achieve the damage to "oneshot" 100-0 plus having doubled sustain.

>

> Instead of doing 40k rapid fire maybe you do 15-20k, the average health of every profession.

>

> But as you said the worse ones just runs in duo or just wait to jump you and +1 for the easy kill because they are garbage.

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Here:

> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view

>

> Finally someone with video proofs of the stupid overrange of rangers.

>

> It's so nasty to use mobility skilla especially in wvw for over 2k range and still get hit by rangers camping longbow and simply walking.

>

>

 

woa now. I think you're mixing up your own terms haha. when I say "soulbeast", I mean the elite spec. not "ranger". druid is DEFINITELY a noob spec I will 100% agree.

I too have fought many druids who keep making mistake after mistake and still live. but I'm not running full zerk so their dmg is not enough to kill me as their pet dmg ( they usually run bristleback ) and other forms of dmg have very obvious tells and their rotation is easy to counter. ( you said yourself how many times you outplayed them ).

 

I just gave up on trying to kill them. doesn't work, even if I DO run full zerk. they will just kite kite heal stealth etc. now what I do instead is counter their rotation endlessly, and use emotes like laugh or sleep on them while they try to kite me.

 

don't try to kill them, just treat them like a child. btw, using zerk gear on warrior ( any spec ) usually isn't a good idea as any class with sustain can beat you unless they make a lot of mistakes and let you kill them with a single stun combo. get yourself some more sustain so you can avoid getting in that situation.

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> I never said that were no discrepancies in range .As I pointed out I myself have tested a 1800 range from height. I do argue the over exaggeration of range.That video does not prove 1800 or a 1875 range let alone 2200 plus range.It only proves a slight increase in range over 1200 for point blank and 1500 for long range shot.The evidence in this video is weak at best.Not conclusive evidence of the exaggerated ranges of over 1800 to 2200 . If at some point that ANET sees a problem or someone conclusively proves ranges beyond 1800 from height or level ground I will stick with my own findings of a maximum of 1800 from a height greater than target.

 

Its comical how you are trying to refute evidence that is right in front of you. Sure we don't have an actual range indicator in that video that shows the exact range, but try this on for size:

 

- Kneel on DE gives a line that shows exactly where 1500 range is - this is not speculation - this is fact.

- In the very first portion of this video, *the very first few seconds - you don't even have to wait!*, you see the Ranger -from a lower position- outrange the 1500 range indicator of Kneel.

- Greatsword Swing has a 130unit range. Judging by the size of the player, and general knowledge of that pvp map which has been there since beta, the ranger is *at least* 2 greatsword swing's away from the 1500 range line. I'd say at least 3, but lets be generous to the naysayers.

- 1500+130+130=1760. And that's rounding down by far.

 

Now lets look at 2:55 into the video. That's *even further*, all on even ground. No height, just even terrain. How are you still arguing this?

[bigo.9037]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > I never said that were no discrepancies in range .As I pointed out I myself have tested a 1800 range from height. I do argue the over exaggeration of range.That video does not prove 1800 or a 1875 range let alone 2200 plus range.It only proves a slight increase in range over 1200 for point blank and 1500 for long range shot.The evidence in this video is weak at best.Not conclusive evidence of the exaggerated ranges of over 1800 to 2200 . If at some point that ANET sees a problem or someone conclusively proves ranges beyond 1800 from height or level ground I will stick with my own findings of a maximum of 1800 from a height greater than target.

>

> Its comical how you are trying to refute evidence that is right in front of you. Sure we don't have an actual range indicator in that video that shows the exact range, but try this on for size:

>

> - Kneel on DE gives a line that shows exactly where 1500 range is - this is not speculation - this is fact.

> - In the very first portion of this video, *the very first few seconds - you don't even have to wait!*, you see the Ranger -from a lower position- outrange the 1500 range indicator of Kneel.

> - Greatsword Swing has a 130unit range. Judging by the size of the player, and general knowledge of that pvp map which has been there since beta, the ranger is *at least* 2 greatsword swing's away from the 1500 range line. I'd say at least 3, but lets be generous to the naysayers.

> - 1500+130+130=1760. And that's rounding down by far.

>

> Now lets look at 2:55 into the video. That's *even further*, all on even ground. No height, just even terrain. How are you still arguing this?

 

I don't think any rangers should have anything against anet limiting the range to be actually 1500. and limiting ALL projectiles to their specified range.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.

> > > > but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

> > >

> > > The problem with soulbeast is low risk high reward and noob friendly usage.

> > >

> > > You don't get punished at all for running full glass, in the same why of full glass ele for example.

> > >

> > > Soulbeast right now is basically a warrior with 1500 range (yeah 1800+ many times), with stealth, evades, block, high mobility, high regen and sustain due to boonspam (perma regen and perma prot mainly), nasty soft and hard CC skills, crazy high damage and incredibility easy to pull off from safe range.

> > > People say, don't make a range kite you and go melee!

> > > If we talk about melee their damage is probably higher than ranged one and they can still pressure you at melee combat.

> > > Or if they run sword/dagger they can evade a lot.

> > >

> > > It's just the new cheesy spec of roaming that even noobs can abuse.

> >

> > ranger is only noobfriendly in terms of range. to pull anything else meaningful off like the survivability you need coordinate your skills a lot more. I have mained ranger since I started. every time I see a 1 hit ranger or a ranger tries to kill me with his duel build I destroy them. they play really bad and get rekt by most other specs when I see them cus they suck.

> >

> > but you ARE correct that GOOD rangers are OP because they can utilize everything the class has to offer. if you pull off the rotations correctly and your opponent makes mistakes it's extremely effective at punishing them for those mistakes.

> >

> > @"whoknocks.4935" I think you've been rather unlucky with the soulbeasts you're facing tbh. most of the ones I see are complete trash who not good for anything but 1upping a fight that was already started.

> >

> > edit fixing typos cus I'm writing this on my phone

> >

>

> I killed plenty of soulbeasts, but what I hate the most is the noob friendly and low risk aspect of the profession.

>

> It is true a good soulbeast can utilise the class at his max and punish you for your mistakes a lot, but this is true with any profession you play, if you are on your main.

>

> But in many cases the profession does 90% of the job for you.

> Druid for example is the top number 1 profession on what I am referring too.

> You can afford to commit multiple and several mistakes and still win because carried by the profession and not by your personal skill.

>

> One day I was dueling a druid who was a bit condi oriented, probably a weird hybrid build.

>

> I was playing core full zerk warrior, pretty simple and easy standard dueling profession.

>

> Many people watched us dueling, I literally landed every single stun I have, the fight was so long and this guy was dodging on my autoattacks instead of dodging my stuns, I landed every single eviscerate and arcing slice, I had perma 3ah all the fight, but him having perma protection, keeping me perma poisoned, as soon he was 15% health, pop celestial avatar off cooldown, stealth, exit out of stealth always 100% health in 3-4 seconds, and he kept doing this for maybe 2-3 minutes when he finally downed me because of stupid condis working on me plus sustained damage from the stupid pet.

>

> Every single guy who saw us dueling was shocked how badly and poorly he played and still managed to win just because of how brainless his profession is, he didn't deserve the win at all, yeah i died, he beat me, but this doesn't mean he is better than me or he has more skill than me, in this case seriously he was not even half my skill level, he switched to warrior after adfirming it was his main, and i did 10-0 on him and he started saying i turned on some weird tool because against his ranger i was so noob. But i had zero chances on that stupid druid build he was playing.

>

> Why I told you this? Because soulbeast right now is just abused by everyone, and because of all the tools at his disposal, a worse player can beat a better one.

> And the problem is almost nobody really runs full zerk with strength or pack runes, but a mix of marauder/zerk with dura runes can still achieve the damage to "oneshot" 100-0 plus having doubled sustain.

>

> Instead of doing 40k rapid fire maybe you do 15-20k, the average health of every profession.

>

> But as you said the worse ones just runs in duo or just wait to jump you and +1 for the easy kill because they are garbage.

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Here:

> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view

>

> Finally someone with video proofs of the stupid overrange of rangers.

>

> It's so nasty to use mobility skilla especially in wvw for over 2k range and still get hit by rangers camping longbow and simply walking.

>

>

 

A warrior complaining about fairness...now I have seen it all.

A core warrior probably with "mights make me right" and strength runes - stability on CC - double immunity etc etc etc...your entire build is 90% passive but you still talk about skill and noob aspects of rangers when your very profession is the to go for new players and instant gratification goonies ....how many mistakes can you make a warrior?...I bet you run with might on dodge food...c'mon.......

 

And yeah I have a warrior too...the ranger must be experienced to stand a chance, it's so freaking easy to kill them with all the passive sustain/blocks I have and I am still useful and wanted in any aspect of the game, I can join zergs, go pvp ..all with min effort

 

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> I never said that were no discrepancies in range .As I pointed out I myself have tested a 1800 range from height. I do argue the over exaggeration of range.That video does not prove 1800 or a 1875 range let alone 2200 plus range.It only proves a slight increase in range over 1200 for point blank and 1500 for long range shot.The evidence in this video is weak at best.Not conclusive evidence of the exaggerated ranges of over 1800 to 2200 . If at some point that ANET sees a problem or someone conclusively proves ranges beyond 1800 from height or level ground I will stick with my own findings of a maximum of 1800 from a height greater than target.

 

I tested this myself on flat ground in the pvp lobby as well as guild hall duel arena. Ranger longbow auto attack (and rapid fire) has a range somewhere between 1840 and 1870. If we assume 1850, that's a 23% range buffer which is way too high. And note, this is on flat ground. If you add any elevation, the range goes much higher (can even go higher than 2000 which you can test vs. Sic Em).

 

Anyone can test these things themselves. The range is clearly much much higher than 1600 and whether or not you think so, this **IS** a balance issue that should be addressed.

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"Mokk.2397" said:

> > I never said that were no discrepancies in range .As I pointed out I myself have tested a 1800 range from height. I do argue the over exaggeration of range.That video does not prove 1800 or a 1875 range let alone 2200 plus range.It only proves a slight increase in range over 1200 for point blank and 1500 for long range shot.The evidence in this video is weak at best.Not conclusive evidence of the exaggerated ranges of over 1800 to 2200 . If at some point that ANET sees a problem or someone conclusively proves ranges beyond 1800 from height or level ground I will stick with my own findings of a maximum of 1800 from a height greater than target.

>

> I tested this myself on flat ground in the pvp lobby as well as guild hall duel arena. Ranger longbow auto attack (and rapid fire) has a range somewhere between 1840 and 1870. If we assume 1850, that's a 23% range buffer which is way too high. And note, this is on flat ground. If you add any elevation, the range goes much higher (can even go higher than 2000 which you can test vs. Sic Em).

>

> Anyone can test these things themselves. The range is clearly much much higher than 1600 and whether or not you think so, this **IS** a balance issue that should be addressed.

>

 

Did you test the other arcing projectiles like Staff 1 on Ele?