Is Istan the worst content of the game?

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"nitowa.1486" said:

> To make things worse, the lighting was turned to eleven inside Palawadan, so your whole screen constantly looks like an acid trip; leaving you disoriented and guessing at where the next tag-target might be in the sea of bloom effects.

 

Couldn't resist:

 

[Tasida.4085]

Istan is fine as is. If you don't like it, then DON'T play it. It's really not that difficult of a choice but don't try and ruin it for others that do enjoy all the aspects of the map.

[Alchimist.4738]

Istan has great content, but because the rewards are so good the community trivialized it.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > There should be more sophisticated events like TT or Serpent's Ire so people have some variety in gameplay and difficulty, not mindless zergfests like Istan.

> > >

> > > We have that: every HoT meta (and even SW). People have to work together at multiple locations on the map to succeed. They are definitely harder than "zergfests". So leave Istan alone, it's our only good "zergfest".

> >

> > I'd be ok with that if they'd nerf the rewards further. The game shouldn't promote some weird auto-attack-mentality and selfish behaviour. It's an MMO. It should be about group-effort. Istan isn't. It's just zerging stuff down mindlessly. Diverse gameplay and difficulty in MMOs is important. GW2 is rather a failure in that regard. People always complain about toxicity from evil raiders, PvPers and other subgroups, but don't realize that there are reasons for that behaviour (and the lack of accessiblity to such content).

>

> "weird auto-attack-mentality" - I'm an open world player and all of my skills are always on cooldown. You're doing it wrong.

 

I never said that everyone suffers from that kind of mentality, but you only have to look into arcdps during meta-events and you'll see that there's a significant amount of people who only auto-attack or do whatsoever. You only have to look at the complaints about the current Boss Blitz, where you actually have decent scaling. The scaling in Istan is just garbage. For 50+ people on a single monster, every champion should get turned into a legendary with a severe HP-boost. Just look at monsters like these archers that die in max. three seconds. That's stupid.

 

> "It's an MMO. It should be about group-effort" - It's an MMO. MM = Massively Multiplayer. I want to be in the **massively multiplayer** open world and zerg Champs down because I LIKE IT.

 

Yeah, well, that's maybe the case for you, but for some people, that doesn't feel like playing a MMO. Usually, the MM-aspect also contained cooperative gameplay. Events like Istan feel more like running around with several more or less competent AI-allies though. Stuff like TT or Serpent's Ire makes me feel like playing a MMO, 'cause I actually have to play together with other people instead of just besides them.

 

> That doesn't stop you from doing Fractals, Raids and other "group effort" stuff! I am glad we have OPTIONS! You can do what you enjoy and I can do what I enjoy. I don't come to the forum to ask Anet to nerf Fractals/Raids just because I don't like them!

 

Yeah, well, you don't and I certainly do value that. There are several other people though that demand exactly that.

 

> Why do you want to take MY fun away? And you're the one talking about "selfish behaviour"? Ironic.

 

I don't want to take your fun away. I just want both consistent and coherent game-design. The game lacks both though. The "do whatever you want"-approach isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as a game- and especially MMO-developer, you have to design your game in a way it's consistent and coherent. To translate that: It means that you have to design your base-game in a way that your players learn basic gameplay and that you have some sense of community. That also means that there is a correlation between effort and rewards. The most rewarding activities in GW2 aren't doing raids, fractals or PvP/WvW though, it's grinding SW or Istan. I'm fine with SW due to the reasons already mentioned, but the Istan-farm is hilarious game-design-wise.

 

I mean, I really don't want to offend you or other people, but I don't understand why people fail to see how basic game-design should work. Just look at the problems GW2 suffers from: Really low accessiblity to content like raids or fractals, a ridiculously strongly fragmented community (if you can even call it community anymore), the game being really unsocial for a MMO, etc. pp. That's all due to questionable game design. I'm not even against your zerg-farming. If you enjoy that, fine. But - as I said - it shouldn't be as rewarding as it currently is. Yes, it has already been nerfed (and rightfully so), but where are the good farming-possibilities in more sophisticated content? Raids are severely limited due to the weekly reward system and fractals? Well, no level 40 fractal farm anymore...

 

> @"Tasida.4085" said:

> Istan is fine as is. If you don't like it, then DON'T play it. It's really not that difficult of a choice but don't try and ruin it for others that do enjoy all the aspects of the map.

 

That's short-sighted. You can't ignore Istan even if you don't like it. It's one of the best farming-methods besides SW. You literally have to play Istan or SW if you want to farm gold in this game since they're dimensions more efficient than other farming methods. And like I said, I don't want to ruin it, I just want the game to be coherent and consistent.

 

 

[Rasta.2371]

Worst content in the game is original story ending with Zhaitan. Nothing could be more inane, poorly written, crappy dialogue windows, characters you don't give a damn about, all climaxing to a boss where you press 1 button to kill.

[JDub.1530]

We're not talking about getting rid of my Volitile Magic are we? Because I need my trophy crates! :p

 

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Usually, the MM-aspect also contained cooperative gameplay.

 

I don't know, when I played WoW many years ago, I don't recall much cooperation being involved. In fact you had to tag your mobs and harvesting nodes pretty quick, because it was first come, first served. And in BDO, outside of node wars that game is pretty severely selfish oriented.

[Mea.5491]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Yeah, well, that's maybe the case for you, but for some people, that doesn't feel like playing a MMO. Usually, the MM-aspect also contained cooperative gameplay.

 

But we have both in GW2. You get your cooperative gameplay and I get to chill in the open world. Everyone's happy, no need to change anything.

 

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> The most rewarding activities in GW2 aren't doing raids, fractals or PvP/WvW though, it's grinding SW or Istan.

 

And that's exactly why I've been playing GW2 since beta! Finally a game where I'm not forced to spam instances over and over again to earn Gold. Finally a game where I'm not forced to play meta because everything is viable in the open world. More MMOs should be like GW2. Also, I don't know the current state of Fractals but I still remember people grinding one Fractal instance over and over again because it was the best Gold/hour. I still remember people grinding dungeons over and over again for the same reason. So let's not act like the open world is the only thing that can be "over-rewarding". Speed-clearing instanced content 234523 times is no less braindead than zergs!

[ugrakarma.9416]

the SW purists strikes agains.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> And that's exactly why I've been playing GW2 since beta! Finally a game where I'm not forced to spam instances over and over again to earn Gold. Finally a game where I'm not forced to play meta because everything is viable in the open world. More MMOs should be like GW2. Also, I don't know the current state of Fractals but I still remember people grinding one Fractal instance over and over again because it was the best Gold/hour. I still remember people grinding dungeons over and over again for the same reason. So let's not act like the open world is the only thing that can be "over-rewarding". Speed-clearing instanced content 234523 times is no less braindead than zergs!

 

The thing is that these instanced-content-farms don't exist anymore. The level 40 fractal farm (that's the one you're talking about) has been long fixed. For some people, the mindless farm in Istan is just boring. The problem is that there is no real alternative. If there would be a decent and equally efficient method for people who are more into sophisticated content, it would be perfectly fine, but as it currently is, farming Istan or SW are simply the most efficient methods for farming gold.

[Biff.5312]

I don't see the supposedly great rewards, but I find the whole region pretty boring. I almost never go there.

[Mea.5491]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> The thing is that these instanced-content-farms don't exist anymore. The level 40 fractal farm (that's the one you're talking about) has been long fixed. For some people, the mindless farm in Istan is just boring. The problem is that there is no real alternative. If there would be a decent and equally efficient method for people who are more into sophisticated content, it would be perfectly fine, but as it currently is, farming Istan or SW are simply the most efficient methods for farming gold.

 

I see. In this case, it would be better to improve the rewards of instanced content instead of nerfing the open world (but that's just my opinion). In a perfect world, every game mode/content should offer similar Gold/hour but that's not easy to implement...

[Tails.9372]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

>The most rewarding activities in GW2 aren't doing raids, fractals or PvP/WvW though, it's grinding SW or Istan.

That depends on how you define "rewarding". If it's about practical use then the Omnipotion beats out everything else by a long shot. If it's about the mode specific skins then stuff gets a lot more subjective but "zerg-farming" in WvW gets you the T3 "tentacle" suit which can be upgraded to legendary status for ~300 gold which in my book easily beats out everything OW PvM has to offer bar the egg sac but that thing never drops while you can actually "work" towards the T3 stuff.

 

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> where are the good farming-possibilities in more sophisticated content?

So it's about envy. But yes, fractals nstuff should have better rewards. Why Tequatl is still the only boss in this game with a unique set of ascended item drops is beyond me. Especially fractal / raid but also the other world bosses would be perfect for boss themed weapon / armor drops.

 

> @"JDub.1530" said:

> getting rid of my Volitile Magic

Now this would be stupid, Volatile Magic is by far one of the best gold sinks the game has to offer.

 

[Dami.5046]

Kourna is the worst for me. Hands down.

I've had Ascended boxes from the champ bags in istan. o/

[Rasta.2371]

in GW1 you could do dungeons which were fun, gave good rewards and weren't on a weekly/daily timer... we have regressed

[Gemnaid.4219]

Nope. It’s probably the best content. Other maps are under rewarding, that is the problem.

[Conqueror.3682]

Dont hate istan, but i fucking hate Akili and that dervish bitch Amala who never stops jumping.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > It's just about zerging stuff down.

> >

> > Tbh, I enjoy zerging stuff down. :) There's a whole game mode about zerging (WvW) and no one bats an eye, we have a few maps in PvE for zerging Champs and everyone loses their minds. :P

>

> As if open-world-gameplay wouldn't be sufficiently easy already...

>

> There should be more sophisticated events like TT or Serpent's Ire so people have some variety in gameplay and difficulty, not mindless zergfests like Istan.

 

You mean the ones no one likes to do, because there are never enough people, because it requires more effort then zerging, and thus fails because of it? The irony here is that the only Metas like that, that still get done, are the ones that are over rewarding for the time-cost. Teq, Octovine, DragonStand (for less then half the day), just Garrant, Karka Queen, most of the World Boss Train. Yet there are easier or less complicated metas that go completely ignored because the reward output isn't as high as the ones above, or simply take too long or are too hard to track..... VB, Temple runs, pretty much all the Metas in POF, all those other big meta chains in Core Tyria. Whens the last time you did Casino Blitz and wasn't only doing it because you're already on the map and someone called the Pinata?

 

Frankly there are TONS of events and boss fight that offer that variety..... and players simply avoid them for more convenient/profitable farm spots.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > "It's an MMO. It should be about group-effort" - It's an MMO. MM = Massively Multiplayer. I want to be in the **massively multiplayer** open world and zerg Champs down because I LIKE IT.

>

> Yeah, well, that's maybe the case for you, but for some people, that doesn't feel like playing a MMO. Usually, the MM-aspect also contained cooperative gameplay. Events like Istan feel more like running around with several more or less competent AI-allies though. Stuff like TT or Serpent's Ire makes me feel like playing a MMO, 'cause I actually have to play together with other people instead of just besides them.

 

MMO's exist because development companies make them. These companies make them to make money. MMO's make the most money by attracting the most paying customers. MMO's attract the most paying customers by appealing to the wide range of player desires. The idea that an MMO is all about group effort is just one such player desire. Narrowing what the MMO offers to only that would alienate too many customers. The bottom line is that the only gameplay preference that defines the MMO genre is a persistent world environment. Within that, anything that helps the game succeed financially is going to be fair game.

 

This is not me telling you what to like or dislike, or that you can't demand something you want or demand something you dislike be removed. This is me suggesting that MMO's need to make some content that appeals to everyone, and one content type cannot possibly do that. Too many people like the opposite of what too many other people like.

 

Both the content you like and that which you dislike is funded by those diverse groups of players. Alienating too many customers may result in reduced development efforts. Maybe you've seen it happen in other games. I have. That may mean that it might be in your best interests not to complain about a content type you may not like, and just ignore it, instead.