Power Reaper Fix

[Heimdallr.5421]

that's why I made 3 tests, with all buffs without buffs and with minion, and yes I used that skill...never used minion before haha. As to Blood is Power I used my casual fractal build here, it builds up bleed dmg but yes, for raids it's useless. The question is - How much other classes outdps this amount?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Heimdallr.5421" said:

>The question is - How much other classes outdps this amount?

 

When played competently pretty much every other dps spec will out dps necro by 10~20%.

 

 

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @"Heimdallr.5421" said:

> that's why I made 3 tests, with all buffs without buffs and with minion, and yes I used that skill...never used minion before haha. As to Blood is Power I used my casual fractal build here, it builds up bleed dmg but yes, for raids it's useless. The question is - How much other classes outdps this amount?

 

By quite a bit. People have gone through the trouble of testing on the golem with necro, and every other class. They have even posted their results, for the entire community.

 

Here is but one such site that has a listing of all current builds and benchmarks:

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

 

From that site:

Power Reaper: 27806 was max golem dps maintained (27600 is the expected avg)

Power Deadeye: 36869 (36000 expected avg)

 

That a difference of about 9k between Reaper and Deadeye, which has the current highest dps build. Most other acceptable dps builds avg around 32-33.5k. **Other dps builds can avg about 5,700 dps more than the Reaper's highest possible dps (good rng with weapon damage).** These builds are also all using a consistent boon/buff setup, so that the benchmark consists of "realistic" boons/buffs, instead of just "everything".

 

[cyndelaq.7148]

So... First, I'd like to say, "thank you for listening to us Arena Net!".

 

I was blown away when I tested my Reaper's damage on the training golem and saw his DPS reach 35k consistently on the meter, but then I realised why that was. With the change to, "Dread", we are now able to reach competitive DPS numbers but there's still a problem. How do we maintain Fear?

 

The answer to that question, as far as I can see, is, "you don't." Even with a full Terrormancer build, you can't maintain Fear long enough to deal any meaningful damage, so I'm left wondering, "what was the point in making the change at all?" Criticism aside, I wonder... Would a change such as:

 

Dread now becomes, "Exposed: Deal increased damage to foes that exceed the Vulnerability threshold. Damage Increase: 33% Threshold: 25 Vulnerability", be acceptable?

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> So... First, I'd like to say, "thank you for listening to us Arena Net!".

>

> I was blown away when I tested my Reaper's damage on the training golem and saw his DPS reach 35k consistently on the meter, but then I realised why that was. With the change to, "Dread", we are now able to reach competitive DPS numbers but there's still a problem. How do we maintain Fear?

>

> The answer to that question, as far as I can see, is, "you don't." Even with a full Terrormancer build, you can't maintain Fear long enough to deal any meaningful damage, so I'm left wondering, "what was the point in making the change at all?" Criticism aside, I wonder... Would a change such as:

>

> Dread now becomes, "Exposed: Deal increased damage to foes that exceed the Vulnerability threshold. Damage Increase: 33% Threshold: 25 Vulnerability", be acceptable?

 

That would make power reaper do 40k+ dps which is insanely overpowered.

 

There is no need to touch dread. Power reaper is now very very close to the average that a 5% increase is most likely enough.

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"Warscythes.9307"

 

No it wouldn't... You can make it so that the training golem has perma Fear on it. I was maintaining 30k to 35k dps with that so I think it's safe to say that dps numbers would remain the same if they implemented this change.

 

Also, if it becomes a case of Reaper having too much dps, they could easily implement a short recharge time of, maybe, 8s. Or make it so that it's only in shroud.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Warscythes.9307"

>

> No it wouldn't... You can make it so that the training golem has perma Fear on it. I was maintaining 30k to 35k dps with that so I think it's safe to say that dps numbers would remain the same if they implemented this change.

>

> Also, if it becomes a case of Reaper having too much dps, they could easily implement a short recharge time of, maybe, 8s. Or make it so that it's only in shroud.

 

Well the current benchmark is 30.7k without dread. So if we knock off 1k for taking dread and multiply it by 33%, that's 39.5k which is practically hotfix territory. So yes it would be incredibly overpowered.

 

As for the recharge, there is really no need to do that. Right now we are maybe 5% off the average benchmark. Why not just tag it on a harmless trait like spiteful tailsman or cold shoulder and have everything be aligned instead of trying to calculate the new number again based on some sort of new cd that is complicated for no reason?

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"Warscythes.9307"

 

Where are you getting this new benchmark from? Snowcrows hasn't updated their site yet and I was able to reach just over 35k in training myself with Dread and perma Fear so...

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Warscythes.9307"

>

> Where are you getting this new benchmark from? Snowcrows hasn't updated their site yet and I was able to reach just over 35k in training myself with Dread and perma Fear so...

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> So... First, I'd like to say, "thank you for listening to us Arena Net!".

>

> I was blown away when I tested my Reaper's damage on the training golem and saw his DPS reach 35k consistently on the meter, but then I realised why that was. With the change to, "Dread", we are now able to reach competitive DPS numbers but there's still a problem. How do we maintain Fear?

>

> The answer to that question, as far as I can see, is, "you don't." Even with a full Terrormancer build, you can't maintain Fear long enough to deal any meaningful damage, so I'm left wondering, "what was the point in making the change at all?" Criticism aside, I wonder... Would a change such as:

>

> Dread now becomes, "Exposed: Deal increased damage to foes that exceed the Vulnerability threshold. Damage Increase: 33% Threshold: 25 Vulnerability", be acceptable?

 

35k isn't possible. Only with dread possible but that's nowhere near a realistic raid scenario. You will never ever manage to have 100% fear uptime on the boss

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"Warscythes.9307"

 

So, first. The person in the video that you linked is using the wrong weapon set. They're using Warhorn instead of Focus. Focus does more damage than Warhorn and generates more Life Force.

 

And second. I tested Power Reaper using the same buffs as that person both with and without Dread and guess what... They're using Dread in that video because there's no way that Warhorn is the difference of about 5k DPS. What I mean by this statement is that, if they weren't using Dread, they'd only be doing about 25k to 27k DPS.

 

Furthermore. I ended my Dread test at 32K DPS, again... using the same buffs, and build (presumably), as this person. But you're right. You won't ever get 100% Fear up-time on anything which is why I don't understand why they attached this massive buff to a trait that gets no use outside of PvP.

 

All this change did was enable Terrormancers in PvP. And like you said, why didn't they just attach this buff to Cold Shoulder? The Dread change makes no sense to me which is why I'm pointing it out.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Warscythes.9307"

>

> So, first. The person in the video that you linked is using the wrong weapon set. They're using Warhorn instead of Focus. Focus does more damage than Warhorn and generates more Life Force.

>

> And second. I tested Power Reaper using the same buffs as that person both with and without Dread and guess what... They're using Dread in that video because there's no way that Warhorn is the difference of about 5k DPS. What I mean by this statement is that, if they weren't using Dread, they'd only be doing about 25k to 27k DPS.

>

> Furthermore. I ended my Dread test at 32K DPS, again... using the same buffs, and build (presumably), as this person. But you're right. You won't ever get 100% Fear up-time on anything which is why I don't understand why they attached this massive buff to a trait that gets no use outside of PvP.

>

> All this change did was enable Terrormancers in PvP. And like you said, why didn't they just attach this buff to Cold Shoulder? The Dread change makes no sense to me which is why I'm pointing it out.

 

Video was definitely using Chill of Death. I re-watched to make sure, and it definitely procs when the golem hits 50% health. The trait has a distinctive sound that you can listen for.

 

Warhorn has two advantages over Focus for DPS tests:

 

1. Its damage in the tests is far closer to reality in raid situations, due to no chance of damage being lost by it bouncing to allies. Since most Necro damage tests have at least one minion out, Warhorn even pulls ahead in the tests.

2. Locust Swarm can have most of its damage (90%) tick in Shroud where it gets the additional 600 Ferocity (that's 40% crit damage!) and 100% crit chance. Reaper's Touch (because you are NOT using Spinal Shivers for damage in raids) will have at least 33% of it apply outside of Shroud.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Warscythes.9307"

>

> So, first. The person in the video that you linked is using the wrong weapon set. They're using Warhorn instead of Focus. Focus does more damage than Warhorn and generates more Life Force.

>

> And second. I tested Power Reaper using the same buffs as that person both with and without Dread and guess what... They're using Dread in that video because there's no way that Warhorn is the difference of about 5k DPS. What I mean by this statement is that, if they weren't using Dread, they'd only be doing about 25k to 27k DPS.

>

> Furthermore. I ended my Dread test at 32K DPS, again... using the same buffs, and build (presumably), as this person. But you're right. You won't ever get 100% Fear up-time on anything which is why I don't understand why they attached this massive buff to a trait that gets no use outside of PvP.

>

> All this change did was enable Terrormancers in PvP. And like you said, why didn't they just attach this buff to Cold Shoulder? The Dread change makes no sense to me which is why I'm pointing it out.

 

If he's using dread then his actual dps would be 23082. Considering this is subi the guy who literally spend hours on grinding power reaper and plays nothing but power reaper. I don't think the number's going to be that low.

 

Your damage is lower most likely because you are not using an optimal rotation and you did not grind enough for an optimal number. Is also possible you are not running power infusions as well. Try to follow his rotation and see if you see an improvement.

 

I am also not sure if he's stowing his gravedigger casts but if he is, that's somewhat unrealistic to do all the time.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307"

> >

> > So, first. The person in the video that you linked is using the wrong weapon set. They're using Warhorn instead of Focus. Focus does more damage than Warhorn and generates more Life Force.

> >

> > And second. I tested Power Reaper using the same buffs as that person both with and without Dread and guess what... They're using Dread in that video because there's no way that Warhorn is the difference of about 5k DPS. What I mean by this statement is that, if they weren't using Dread, they'd only be doing about 25k to 27k DPS.

> >

> > Furthermore. I ended my Dread test at 32K DPS, again... using the same buffs, and build (presumably), as this person. But you're right. You won't ever get 100% Fear up-time on anything which is why I don't understand why they attached this massive buff to a trait that gets no use outside of PvP.

> >

> > All this change did was enable Terrormancers in PvP. And like you said, why didn't they just attach this buff to Cold Shoulder? The Dread change makes no sense to me which is why I'm pointing it out.

>

> Video was definitely using Chill of Death. I re-watched to make sure, and it definitely procs when the golem hits 50% health. The trait has a distinctive sound that you can listen for.

>

> Warhorn has two advantages over Focus for DPS tests:

>

> 1. Its damage in the tests is far closer to reality in raid situations, due to no chance of damage being lost by it bouncing to allies. Since most Necro damage tests have at least one minion out, Warhorn even pulls ahead in the tests.

> 2. Locust Swarm can have most of its damage (90%) tick in Shroud where it gets the additional 600 Ferocity (that's 40% crit damage!) and 100% crit chance. Reaper's Touch (because you are NOT using Spinal Shivers for damage in raids) will have at least 33% of it apply outside of Shroud.

 

He's not using chill of death, you very likely heard chilling blast proc. I doubt Subi would ever use it outside of PvP scenario. He's using awaken the pain like everybody else.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"cyndelaq.7148"

 

Have you considered that there are people who are better at this than you? You seem to be basing what people should be able to do off of what you are able to do. Extremely limiting.

 

Considering with proper food and no infusions I can reach over 28k using **just** greatsword and a sub optimal rotation their benchmark is extremely realistic.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307"

> > >

> > > So, first. The person in the video that you linked is using the wrong weapon set. They're using Warhorn instead of Focus. Focus does more damage than Warhorn and generates more Life Force.

> > >

> > > And second. I tested Power Reaper using the same buffs as that person both with and without Dread and guess what... They're using Dread in that video because there's no way that Warhorn is the difference of about 5k DPS. What I mean by this statement is that, if they weren't using Dread, they'd only be doing about 25k to 27k DPS.

> > >

> > > Furthermore. I ended my Dread test at 32K DPS, again... using the same buffs, and build (presumably), as this person. But you're right. You won't ever get 100% Fear up-time on anything which is why I don't understand why they attached this massive buff to a trait that gets no use outside of PvP.

> > >

> > > All this change did was enable Terrormancers in PvP. And like you said, why didn't they just attach this buff to Cold Shoulder? The Dread change makes no sense to me which is why I'm pointing it out.

> >

> > Video was definitely using Chill of Death. I re-watched to make sure, and it definitely procs when the golem hits 50% health. The trait has a distinctive sound that you can listen for.

> >

> > Warhorn has two advantages over Focus for DPS tests:

> >

> > 1. Its damage in the tests is far closer to reality in raid situations, due to no chance of damage being lost by it bouncing to allies. Since most Necro damage tests have at least one minion out, Warhorn even pulls ahead in the tests.

> > 2. Locust Swarm can have most of its damage (90%) tick in Shroud where it gets the additional 600 Ferocity (that's 40% crit damage!) and 100% crit chance. Reaper's Touch (because you are NOT using Spinal Shivers for damage in raids) will have at least 33% of it apply outside of Shroud.

>

> He's not using chill of death, you very likely heard chilling blast proc. I doubt Subi would ever use it outside of PvP scenario. He's using awaken the pain like everybody else.

 

You're right. Awaken the Pain is the trait, I was indeed getting it mixed up.

 

Just so happened that Chilling Nova procced right when Chill of Death would, and that was the only time I was actually listening for it.

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"Sigmoid.7082"

@"Warscythes.9307"

 

Aside from the stat infusions, I'm replicating Subli's build 100% and I'm only getting 27.7k DPS. So either I'm a lot worse at this game than I think or something doesn't add up.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Sigmoid.7082"

>

> Aside from the stat infusions, I'm replicating Subli's build 100% and I'm only getting 27.7k DPS. So either I'm a lot worse at this game than I think or something doesn't add up.

 

Considering many of the community can beat your benchmark I would assume the later unfortunately.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"cyndelaq.7148" said:

> @"Sigmoid.7082"

>

> Aside from the stat infusions, I'm replicating Subli's build 100% and I'm only getting 27.7k DPS. So either I'm a lot worse at this game than I think or something doesn't add up.

Do you stay above 50% LF all the time? That's important. If you reach 50% LF in shroud, leave it! Otherwise you lose 10% of damage.

 

If you play the exact same build, I am pretty sure something is wrong with your rotation as even I do more than 28k after 5 minutes of practising and I am by no means a PvE player.

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"Sigmoid.7082"

 

So something doesn't add up is what you're saying, right? ;)

 

Seriously though. If I can replicate Subli's build, including their rotation, 100%, aside from the Power infusions, and do 3k DPS less than Subli…. something doesn't add up. 90 Power does not = 3k DPS. It's actually only around +500 DPS. Maybe that can be stretched into 1k DPS with a super good rotation/RNG, but not 3k DPS.

 

I won't delude myself into thinking that I'm playing perfectly; there's always a Human error portion to things, but for it to = a 3k DPS loss...? That seems unrealistic to me.

[cyndelaq.7148]

@"KrHome.1920"

 

When I say that I do 27.7k DPS, I mean I end the test with 27.7k DPS. I spike up to 32k DPS then settle down to 27.7K by the end of the test. Like I said to Sigmoid, I won't delude myself into thinking that I'm perfect, but something doesn't seem right to me.

[KrHome.1920]

Your damage should increase towards the end as Close to Death (+20% damage below 50% HP) kicks in.