Is elementalist under-performing in raids too?

[TexZero.7910]

Ele is exactly where it needs to be for roughly 2 years.

 

Once that karma subsides they can give scepter a 2% buff to earth auto attack for the memes. Ironically it will still do more damage than the +10% damage to necro's axe.

[blambidy.3216]

> @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > But it wasnt like you (could'nt) bring him into raids During that time. It is just why would you? Why would you stress yourself more then people doing deadeye when deadeye is 3 buttons vs, weaver 10 skills trying to hit within just 10 secs? More work for dps that isn't worth it.

>

> That’s what I’m not understanding. Shouldn’t balance also me that the higher the skill needed to pe from would equal a greater reward? If you need a higher APM doing a tricky rotation it’s only logical you should be rewarded more than a someone who auto attacks then hits 5 once in a while.

>

>

 

What you mean? No matter which rotation is harder, everyone who finished the raid, fractal, dungeon has an equal chance of getting a good drop. Having a harder class shouldn't mean you get better loot. However I do not know why arenanet did nerf ele. I guess to change things up in the game? who knows.

[Poelala.2830]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> Necro are calling, they want their whine back.

> Roll with the nerfs like Necros, Mesmers, and Engineers had to endure.

> Ele has been on top for far too long, a real shake up has been needed for ages.

 

The thing is necro is on the top of the WvW and PvP metas are ele is nowhere to be seen. That's the purpose of this thread; to see if ele is truely a useless class across the board.

[Jski.6180]

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

> Weaver got nerfed. The reason weaver is not used, not because the dps nerf but because, why would you if its considered one of the hardest rotation to get ok numbers? I mean you can bring them in KC for cleave, but that is about it, at the moment. It is like how condi engi was before last balance patch. Condi engi before last patch wasn't doing well. But it wasnt like you (could'nt) bring him into raids During that time. It is just why would you? Why would you stress yourself more then people doing deadeye when deadeye is 3 buttons vs, weaver 10 skills trying to hit within just 10 secs? More work for dps that isn't worth it.

>

> However Arenanet gives out balance patches, so lets see what happens in the next. Class benchmarks never stay the same so lets see.

 

Core ele got nerfed weaver just happens to be an ele and got hit but it too. The crit dmg nerf was not that big of a deal just odd chose.

 

That what keeps happening core ele is getting destroyed every balanced patch and its the elite spec of ele that are getting any type of real buffs.

 

Ele is bad weaver is passable.

 

Also this necro thing being worst dose not invalidate the problems with ele both can be valid problems.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

 

Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

 

 

But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

[Jski.6180]

You simply should be able to do raids are core classes only there just too much on the elite spec when they where not aimed to be end all be all effects in the game. Its was a chose to make of different effects but they have become an level up past 80 in there own right.

 

Core necro has it bad reaper and scorge not so much core ele has it bad weaver not so much (tempest has abandoned all hope.) You can say this for every class in this game and it dose not make the argument any weaker in a lot of ways it only makes it stronger that there is a real balancing problem at all points of this game.

[MaxwellM.2075]

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> > > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > > But it wasnt like you (could'nt) bring him into raids During that time. It is just why would you? Why would you stress yourself more then people doing deadeye when deadeye is 3 buttons vs, weaver 10 skills trying to hit within just 10 secs? More work for dps that isn't worth it.

> >

> > That’s what I’m not understanding. Shouldn’t balance also me that the higher the skill needed to pe from would equal a greater reward? If you need a higher APM doing a tricky rotation it’s only logical you should be rewarded more than a someone who auto attacks then hits 5 once in a while.

> >

> >

>

> What you mean? No matter which rotation is harder, everyone who finished the raid, fractal, dungeon has an equal chance of getting a good drop. Having a harder class shouldn't mean you get better loot. However I do not know why arenanet did nerf ele. I guess to change things up in the game? who knows.

 

I didnt say anything about loot. I said you should be rewarded for working harder. That is to say that if you have to do some crazy rotation you should be doing damage well above the base line of someone who presses on button and autoattacks. Just like you were saying "Why would you stress yourself more then people doing deadeye when deadeye is 3 buttons vs, weaver 10 skills trying to hit within just 10 secs? More work for dps that isn't worth it." They need to make it worth it.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> Elementalist is nothing more of a joke in WvW and sPvP and I've been told it's pretty bad in PvE also. Is this true?

 

Elementalist is a joke in PVE story missions too. It's probably the worst profession to do any of the newer story instances and the recent damage nerfs made it even worse. While other professions can follow the full DPS potential when soloing in story instances, Elementalists have to adapt and use different tactics which makes their hits tickle. Also, in story instances most bosses are rather mobile too which makes the Elementalist even worse.

 

In general, if you like Elementalist you can follow big blobs in open world PVE and pretend you are doing better than others (you are not btw) or play the damage bot on large hitbox Raid bosses while your pet healers are keeping you alive. For anything else, play literally any other profession, it does a far better job than Elementalist.

 

And since all the balance in the game happens by how much damage someone deals on stationary golems, you can expect this to get even worse until you will no longer be able to even finish story instances on Elementalist.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> Necro are calling, they want their whine back.

> Roll with the nerfs like Necros, Mesmers, and Engineers had to endure.

> Ele has been on top for far too long, a real shake up has been needed for ages.

 

Necromancer has been meta in WVW and PVP since PoF with very insubstantial nerfs (for those modes). They still dominate and always dominated. They are also probably the best at soloing in this game and one of the best at running any of the newer/harder story instances. Necromancer is better than Elementalist (and has been for a very long time) in everything this game has to offer with the exception of Raids. Yes let's balance the entire game around Raid performance alone and shake up the damage benchmarks, so Elementalist is trash tier in Raids too, all while Necromancer is meta and god tier in every other part of the game. Heck you can kill Turai Ossa as a Necromancer while in downed state, talk about easy mode profession.

 

Mesmer had to endure nerfs? Why are they god tier in every game mode then? From Raids, to open world, to story instances, soloing, PVP and WVW Mesmers are at the top of the chain and have been since Heart of Thorns. All these "nerfs" that Mesmers had to endure probably did nothing because Mesmers are still at the top on every game mode. But wait, they weren't at the top of the Golem DPS benchmarks, Elementalists were at the top there, while being trash at anything else, so Arenanet, that's only balancing around golem dps benchmarks, decided to do something about it.

[Ganathar.4956]

Yes, elementalist is not meta in any game mode at the moment. They are only viable for a few very specific things, like killing siege in WvW. It's unquestionably the worst class in the game right now.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

>

> Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

>

>

> But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

> I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

 

Check [Raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "Raidar"). Ele's damage is unimpressive and its popularity is dwindling as a result. DE has 67% higher representation and Holosmith has 17% higher. Holosmith stats outline the issue perfectly - while its 99th percentile is only 8% higher than Weaver's, its 50th percentile is over 30% higher. Both are far more reliable, and, as a result, more popular. The usual mantra of "cleave" doesn't apply either - Holosmith's [cleave](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16246 "cleave") is only marginally worse (10.8k added damage vs 12.1k on Weaver, both at 50th percentile) with higher boss dps.

[VanWilder.6923]

Consider I was main Ele and only Ele since I'd started playing gw2, after the latest patch I dropped Ele completely and moving to Thief and have not playing Ele since. I am main PvE too.

Thats my answer to your Ele question.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > > Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

> >

> > Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

> >

> >

> > But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

> > I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

>

> Check [Raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "Raidar"). Ele's damage is unimpressive and its popularity is dwindling as a result. DE has 67% higher representation and Holosmith has 17% higher. Holosmith stats outline the issue perfectly - while its 99th percentile is only 8% higher than Weaver's, its 50th percentile is over 30% higher. Both are far more reliable, and, as a result, more popular. The usual mantra of "cleave" doesn't apply either - Holosmith's [cleave](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16246 "cleave") is only marginally worse (10.8k added damage vs 12.1k on Weaver, both at 50th percentile) with higher boss dps.

 

Hmm, okay

I stopped tracing exact numbers a while back because Arc kept crashing the game.

Most of the time i still run a burnzerker since it cam swap on the fly between DPS and banner support

[Draco.9480]

> @"MaxwellM.2075" said:

> Yesterday a guild told me they would rather take a deadeye or any other DPS to a raid than an Ele. Ele rotations are harder and don’t offer any more damage so your likely to screw them up and do worse. Ele also doesn’t bring any booms or utility that another class doesn’t do better. Ele isn’t really wanted in PvE Raids. I might add Ele isn’t wanted in WVW Raids either. Ele is in a bad place right now.

 

ever heard of aoe? eles has the highest aoe damage as power. You need 2-3 of 'em in some bosses like xera,kc,sloth, gorse.

[LucianDK.8615]

elementalists well needed to be bought in line, remained outliers for far too long.

[Poelala.2830]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> elementalists well needed to be bought in line, remained outliers for far too long.

 

I agree. Elementalists DO need to be brought in line and have remained outliers for far too long. That's why they need buffs. They're weak and NOT meta in all 3 game modes. And they have been weak in two of them, WvW and sPvP since PoF launched.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> elementalists well needed to be bought in line, remained outliers for far too long.

 

Brought in line in benchmark golem DPS, while being outliers (trash tier) on literally everything else in the game? That's not a good way of bringing something "in line" with the others. WVW, PVP and even in solo PVE (like solo missions) Elementalist is at the lowest tier.

[Kalendraf.9521]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > > Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

> >

> > Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

> >

> >

> > But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

> > I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

>

> Check [Raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "Raidar"). Ele's damage is unimpressive and its popularity is dwindling as a result. DE has 67% higher representation and Holosmith has 17% higher. Holosmith stats outline the issue perfectly - while its 99th percentile is only 8% higher than Weaver's, its 50th percentile is over 30% higher. Both are far more reliable, and, as a result, more popular. The usual mantra of "cleave" doesn't apply either - Holosmith's [cleave](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16246 "cleave") is only marginally worse (10.8k added damage vs 12.1k on Weaver, both at 50th percentile) with higher boss dps.

 

Based on the values on that site, it appears that Weaver is currently near the middle of the pack. (Power - 4 classes with higher DPS, Condi - 6 classes with higher DPS) Ideally, the stronger classes will get rebalanced downward, and those at the bottom should need help to get rebalanced upward. Meanwhile, the DPS on Weaver looks really good compared to the necro options (comparison of their 50th percent numbers):

Power - Weaver: 13358

Power - Reaper: 10954

Weaver is 22% higher DPS

 

Condi - Weaver: 14404

Condi - Scourge: 12551

Weaver is 15% higher DPS

 

Based on that site, every class has higher DPS Condi options than Necro. Every class except warrior has stronger DPS Power options than Necro, but Warriors have various group buffs so even there they're still a better option. Also, the snowcrows benchmarks (https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/) show necro is in even worse shape trailing every single class in both power and condi options. Necro needs a lot of help just to get it up to the middle of the pack. By comparison, ele seems to be in a pretty good spot.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > > > Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

> > >

> > > Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

> > >

> > >

> > > But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

> > > I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

> >

> > Check [Raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "Raidar"). Ele's damage is unimpressive and its popularity is dwindling as a result. DE has 67% higher representation and Holosmith has 17% higher. Holosmith stats outline the issue perfectly - while its 99th percentile is only 8% higher than Weaver's, its 50th percentile is over 30% higher. Both are far more reliable, and, as a result, more popular. The usual mantra of "cleave" doesn't apply either - Holosmith's [cleave](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16246 "cleave") is only marginally worse (10.8k added damage vs 12.1k on Weaver, both at 50th percentile) with higher boss dps.

>

> Based on the values on that site, it appears that Weaver is currently near the middle of the pack. (Power - 4 classes with higher DPS, Condi - 6 classes with higher DPS) Ideally, the stronger classes will get rebalanced downward, and those at the bottom should need help to get rebalanced upward. Meanwhile, the DPS on Weaver looks really good compared to the necro options (comparison of their 50th percent numbers):

> Power - Weaver: 13358

> Power - Reaper: 10954

> Weaver is 22% higher DPS

>

> Condi - Weaver: 14404

> Condi - Scourge: 12551

> Weaver is 15% higher DPS

>

> Based on that site, every class has higher DPS Condi options than Necro. Every class except warrior has stronger DPS Power options than Necro, but Warriors have various group buffs so even there they're still a better option. Also, the snowcrows benchmarks (https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/) show necro is in even worse shape trailing every single class in both power and condi options. Necro needs a lot of help just to get it up to the middle of the pack. By comparison, ele seems to be in a pretty good spot.

>

 

At the same time Scourge is meta in PVP, meta in WVW, you can defeat the hardest PVE boss while in downed state, finish any story instances without making a single change to your "snowcrows" meta build. All while Elementalists need to change items, traits and/or skills just to survive and at the same time tank their DPS way below Necro levels. Also at the same time they are trash in PVP and trash in WVW, outside of Meteor Staff spammers to clear some siege I guess.

 

Necro is better than Elementalist in the vast majority of the game's content, and the difference is so huge it's similar to pre-nerf Staff Weaver vs after-nerf Scourge on a huge target.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > @"Kalendraf.9521" said:

> > > > Ele's are doing fine. Necros are the ones with a *bone to pick*.

> > >

> > > Eeeeeeeeeyyyyy

> > >

> > >

> > > But in all seriousness, ele’s seem fine.

> > > I still see them pop in raids in big numbers

> >

> > Check [Raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "Raidar"). Ele's damage is unimpressive and its popularity is dwindling as a result. DE has 67% higher representation and Holosmith has 17% higher. Holosmith stats outline the issue perfectly - while its 99th percentile is only 8% higher than Weaver's, its 50th percentile is over 30% higher. Both are far more reliable, and, as a result, more popular. The usual mantra of "cleave" doesn't apply either - Holosmith's [cleave](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16246 "cleave") is only marginally worse (10.8k added damage vs 12.1k on Weaver, both at 50th percentile) with higher boss dps.

>

> Based on the values on that site, it appears that Weaver is currently near the middle of the pack. (Power - 4 classes with higher DPS, Condi - 6 classes with higher DPS) Ideally, the stronger classes will get rebalanced downward, and those at the bottom should need help to get rebalanced upward. Meanwhile, the DPS on Weaver looks really good compared to the necro options (comparison of their 50th percent numbers):

> Power - Weaver: 13358

> Power - Reaper: 10954

> Weaver is 22% higher DPS

>

> Condi - Weaver: 14404

> Condi - Scourge: 12551

> Weaver is 15% higher DPS

>

> Based on that site, every class has higher DPS Condi options than Necro. Every class except warrior has stronger DPS Power options than Necro, but Warriors have various group buffs so even there they're still a better option. Also, the snowcrows benchmarks (https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/) show necro is in even worse shape trailing every single class in both power and condi options. Necro needs a lot of help just to get it up to the middle of the pack. By comparison, ele seems to be in a pretty good spot.

>

 

Necromancer is another topic entirely. However, weaver is MUCH harder to play - in any game mode - so there has to be an advantage in damage output in any case.

[MightyOne.1742]

Yeah,right now,ele is in a need for buffs.Maybe they will buff ele in the next balance patch,who knows

[Dante.1763]

> @"MightyOne.1742" said:

> Yeah,right now,ele is in a need for buffs.Maybe they will buff ele in the next balance patch,who knows

 

Saddly no, all ele gets are damage nerfs and then buffs to skills nobody uses...

 

 

Anet really needs to decide what they want ele to be, because right now it is: a no DPS, no survive-ability(especially in group content) class that takes way to much effort to pull of the minimal amount of damage it does now

[MightyOne.1742]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"MightyOne.1742" said:

> > Yeah,right now,ele is in a need for buffs.Maybe they will buff ele in the next balance patch,who knows

>

> Saddly no, all ele gets are damage nerfs and then buffs to skills nobody uses...

>

>

> Anet really needs to decide what they want ele to be, because right now it is: a no DPS, no survive-ability(especially in group content) class that takes way to much effort to pull of the minimal amount of damage it does now

 

Well,they might as well rework some of the skills,or as you said,buff some of the damage to the weapons/skills that ele can use

[Imperadordf.2687]

Incoming %666 Shatterstone damage buff

[Blocki.4931]

They should finally make auras scale with boon duration and it might make support tempest great again. As for the rest, maybe they should just decide what they want eles identity to be. Staff Ele is one of the most iconic things, yet it is showing its old age everywhere. Long cast times and now that the main damages were nerfed it simply cannot hold up where it used to be strong before. Make it a faster spec, speed up cast times and animations across the board and slightly adjust damages . What about a meteor shower that didn't take 3 seconds to cast for full damage and didn't have such a long cooldown, but instead was a bit faster and dealt a little less on a slightly lower cd?

 

Something like that is what the class needs. Feel a bit more dynamic instead of the static and slow playstyle. Weaver Sword is pretty good at this already