opinion on pin snipe?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > > It's a tactic and tactics can be underhanded (pin snipe is pale in comparison to some I've seen before). But are there any fair tactics? Aside from bothside using the same basis/method. Spies and such is acceptable cause it's common? It's okay to target the backline squishies or only if you target the frontline. But not okay if it's the commander(immunity?). On what basis to draw the line?

> >

> > Perhaps we should first define pin snipe because there's a difference between dropping damage on the train and dropping the pin and corrupting the pins boons and then chain pulling him into Africa.

>

> Your zerg tab targetting the closest enemy - most of the time the commander yoloing in front - thus killing him instantly. Thats the definition right?

>

> Because thats how people call out pin snipe 90% of the time.

>

> Just like how all mesmers hack and all thieves got permastealth.

 

hey my thief is considered hacking too! thats not exclusive to you mesmers.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> The ways and means meant little. The aim is to eliminate the target, be it a *cute fluffy little asuran at the back line freely dropping meteors* or the commander.

>

> Edit: As long as it's nothing major like game exploitation and hacks which in this case ain't.

 

I disagree i think there's a very big difference between killing the pin on a push and killing a pin with corrupts chain pulls and moas.

 

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > The ways and means meant little. The aim is to eliminate the target, be it a *cute fluffy little asuran at the back line freely dropping meteors* or the commander.

> >

> > Edit: As long as it's nothing major like game exploitation and hacks which in this case ain't.

>

> I disagree i think there's a very big difference between killing the pin on a push and killing a pin with corrupts chain pulls and moas.

>

>

there is. when you pull them out corrupt etc before a push you will get 1 bag. if you snipe them when he pushes you get many bags.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

A thread like this makes it difficult for players new to GW2 to take WvW seriously. When did we go back in time to the 18th century when it was considered ill mannered and ungentlemanly to kill the enemy officers and generals?

 

If Team A has their commander sniped, and as a consequence, tags down ("I'm taking my ball and going home") and the squad melts away, according to this thread, the fault, the blame and the derision all belong on the shoulders of the enemy team? Sorry, in my book, the commander and squad on Team A are the ones who acted unsportsmanlike because someone was killed in a player vs. player environment.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> A thread like this makes it difficult for players new to GW2 to take WvW seriously. When did we go back in time to the 18th century when it was considered ill mannered and ungentlemanly to kill the enemy officers and generals?

>

> If Team A has their commander sniped, and as a consequence, tags down ("I'm taking my ball and going home") and the squad melts away, according to this thread, the fault, the blame and the derision all belong on the shoulders of the enemy team? Sorry, in my book, the commander and squad on Team A are the ones who acted unsportsmanlike because someone was killed in a player vs. player environment.

 

i think people blew what i asked out of proportion.

 

the issue is simple, and it is if someone snipes your com, do you snipe back?

 

i mentioned nothing about tagging down etc or making the first move to snipe but simple whether if others will snipe back.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> A thread like this makes it difficult for players new to GW2 to take WvW seriously. When did we go back in time to the 18th century when it was considered ill mannered and ungentlemanly to kill the enemy officers and generals?

>

> If Team A has their commander sniped, and as a consequence, tags down ("I'm taking my ball and going home") and the squad melts away, according to this thread, the fault, the blame and the derision all belong on the shoulders of the enemy team? Sorry, in my book, the commander and squad on Team A are the ones who acted unsportsmanlike because someone was killed in a player vs. player environment.

 

This is not a war it's a video game. If you were serious about treating this like a war you would dox the commander go to his house and kill him irl and then never have to fight him again in the game. In games there is etiquette in war there is only the dead and the living.

[Israel.7056]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > > The ways and means meant little. The aim is to eliminate the target, be it a *cute fluffy little asuran at the back line freely dropping meteors* or the commander.

> > >

> > > Edit: As long as it's nothing major like game exploitation and hacks which in this case ain't.

> >

> > I disagree i think there's a very big difference between killing the pin on a push and killing a pin with corrupts chain pulls and moas.

> >

> >

> there is. when you pull them out corrupt etc before a push you will get 1 bag. if you snipe them when he pushes you get many bags.

 

That's one obvious difference yes. But to me the more important difference is the signal of intent. If the commander pushes and the enemy happens to drop a good bomb and kill everyone then they're still signaling an intent to play fairly. If every time the commander pushes he gets corrupted, pulled into africa and moad then the enemy is signaling that they have no interest in fighting fairly and that they really just want to win by any means necessary. It's difference between treating a game like a game and treating a game like a war. Once we go down the path of "the game is a war" then all bets are off and anything and everything is permissible even illegal acts as long as the people doing them don't get caught which is where we get into things like spying and sabotage and maybe even ddosing. Is that really the game we're playing here? I'd like to think not.

[Israel.7056]

ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

[Aeolus.3615]

Pin sniping is a valid tactic, even in real wars along history was/is used.

 

At least pin snipping should be a thing,... the only way to put the gw2 skirts doing is:

Make player with tag drop better loot(exotic drop at worst with a commander loot chest), at least that would make players aim for something rahter than spam aoe bombs every sec in hope to damage something.

 

On gw1 we were used to know who, how and when to hit and wich counter was needed to target skill/effect, here, is stack behind a dorito and spam when he says...

 

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Pin sniping is a valid tactic, even in real wars along history was/is used.

 

Yeah didn't you guys know MLK was pin sniped?

 

JFK? Pin sniped. Osama bin Laden? Took a while, still got pin sniped.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

 

I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.

 

If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.

 

- If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.

- If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al

- If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al

 

You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.

 

Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?

 

ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.

 

EDIT: let me add that I'm all for sportsmanship and mutual respect. I just strongly disagree with the notion that targeting the enemy commander shows a lack of either.

[Slanderman.9532]

pin sniping (pulls and moas) is as stupid as making ACs in open field fights. Effective but stupid

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > Pin sniping is a valid tactic, even in real wars along history was/is used.

>

> Yeah didn't you guys know MLK was pin sniped?

>

> JFK? Pin sniped. Osama bin Laden? Took a while, still got pin sniped.

 

MLK??? Care to explain?

 

Note:

My knowledge of guilds on this game is mostly ZERO, due how unskilled i found the to be, u m8 talk about most top gw1 gvg ladder guild , but in this game the way its done, talking about a gw1 999 ladder guild and a gw2 guild its the same...

 

EDIT: OMG

LOL::: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr. tough MLK was a guild or some player at fist -.-"

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Slanderman.9532" said:

> Effective but stupid

 

Pretty sure that describes all zerg fights in WvW.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

>

> I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.

>

> If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.

>

> - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.

> - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al

> - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al

>

> You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.

>

> Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?

>

> ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.

 

This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.

 

This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.

 

If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.

 

And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.

[coro.3176]

Honestly, the game at this point is not at all like "real war" and is much more like a game of pick-up soccer/football.

 

If you play rough defense on the opposing team captain and keep slide-tackling them (legally) until they don't want to play any more .. yeah, it'll help you win the game.

 

.. but then the other team goes home and your team is left sitting on an empty field kicking balls into an empty net. Is that fun?

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> i think people blew what i asked out of proportion.

> the issue is simple, and it is if someone snipes your com, do you snipe back?

> i mentioned nothing about tagging down etc or making the first move to snipe but simple whether if others will snipe back.

 

If you wanted a simple yes/no answer you should have just done a poll then.

Of course the discussion would blow open, nothing else to talk about these days.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Slanderman.9532" said:

> > Effective but stupid

>

> Pretty sure that describes all zerg fights in WvW.

 

That actually describes the game itself :\ when we search for optimization towards very gimmick group settings.

But that is due how Anet want those gimmicks to be very well performed to very scrubby games that dont need or want to learn much about the game. :\

[Jay.3409]

its the tag's fault for being a massive char... their asking to get pin snipe...

[Traveller.7496]

I'm quite often roleplaying WvW as an honorable character. I honor the opponents, respect 1v1 fights, let my enemy run if they wish to flee, never hide on walls instead of fighting my opponents head on, bring the fight outside a camp and the crutch NPC's (ours or theirs)... it's a fun experience. Just have to remember not everyone will RP a same kind of character as you.

 

 

[shiri.4257]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> Perhaps we should first define pin snipe because there's a difference between dropping damage on the train and dropping the pin and corrupting the pins boons and then chain pulling him into Africa.

 

Majority of the pin snipe rage is more due to a poorly positioned commander or just the fact the head of a squad is fundamentally the bomb spot for simplistic engagements. LIke the GS 5 SB commander, JI or GS-5 FB leaps into Zimbabwe.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > i think people blew what i asked out of proportion.

> > the issue is simple, and it is if someone snipes your com, do you snipe back?

> > i mentioned nothing about tagging down etc or making the first move to snipe but simple whether if others will snipe back.

>

> If you wanted a simple yes/no answer you should have just done a poll then.

> Of course the discussion would blow open, nothing else to talk about these days.

 

i would have if i wanted a poll =)

[BlueMelody.6398]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

> >

> > I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.

> >

> > If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.

> >

> > - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.

> > - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al

> > - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al

> >

> > You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.

> >

> > Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?

> >

> > ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.

>

> This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.

>

> This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.

>

> If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.

>

> And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.

 

Well stated. Those on enemy servers aren't actually trying to kill you or destroy your way of life, they are just human beings like you trying to have fun playing a game. If someone can't handle being beaten in a fair fight, that's on them. But if your definition of fun includes making the game less fun for other players "by any means possible" then that's a form of selfishness and schadenfreude that paints a pretty ugly picture of you as a person.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

> >

> > I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.

> >

> > If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.

> >

> > - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.

> > - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al

> > - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al

> >

> > You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.

> >

> > Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?

> >

> > ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.

>

> This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.

>

> This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.

>

> If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.

>

> And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.

 

me killing the opponent in whatever way is indeed not a real attack to that person, it is only pixels. that doesnt mean that i dont respect the other as a human being. we both agreed to play the game and the game has set rules. if i kill you within these rules you agreed upon by playing the game, then i think that is respectful. if i use a hack for that, then its not. people whispering me after i kill them, insulting me cause they didnt like the way i fight, that is not respectfull. because they choose to play a game with the options i use.

i actually would prefer my opponents to use everything the game offers rather than blaming me for doing so. i just had today a funny guy, after i killed him he whispered me that i just can kill afk people because he was playing with just one hand as he had a phone call, i remembered his name he already once accused me of something similar. then he stated that my class can only kill noobs in a normal 1 vs 1. so we had a few very onesided duels that he lost. he then switched to any noob could kill anyone with such a lame build as mine and i personally cant be a decent player because i play such a lame build. he himself is ofc one of the best players and everyone knows it bla bla. i would have much prefered if he just would have used all the options in the game and defeat me if he really is the better player, but he didnt and instead just tried to attack me, my person emotionally in trying to make me feel bad, he didnt succeed but that is beside the point. i just attacked his toon, he attacked me. so who is disrespectful of the other person as a human being ?

[Israel.7056]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.

> > >

> > > I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.

> > >

> > > If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.

> > >

> > > - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.

> > > - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al

> > > - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al

> > >

> > > You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.

> > >

> > > Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?

> > >

> > > ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.

> >

> > This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.

> >

> > This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.

> >

> > If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.

> >

> > And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.

>

> me killing the opponent in whatever way is indeed not a real attack to that person, it is only pixels. that doesnt mean that i dont respect the other as a human being. we both agreed to play the game and the game has set rules. if i kill you within these rules you agreed upon by playing the game, then i think that is respectful. if i use a hack for that, then its not. people whispering me after i kill them, insulting me cause they didnt like the way i fight, that is not respectfull. because they choose to play a game with the options i use.

> i actually would prefer my opponents to use everything the game offers rather than blaming me for doing so. i just had today a funny guy, after i killed him he whispered me that i just can kill afk people because he was playing with just one hand as he had a phone call, i remembered his name he already once accused me of something similar. then he stated that my class can only kill noobs in a normal 1 vs 1. so we had a few very onesided duels that he lost. he then switched to any noob could kill anyone with such a lame build as mine and i personally cant be a decent player because i play such a lame build. he himself is ofc one of the best players and everyone knows it bla bla. i would have much prefered if he just would have used all the options in the game and defeat me if he really is the better player, but he didnt and instead just tried to attack me, my person emotionally in trying to make me feel bad, he didnt succeed but that is beside the point. i just attacked his toon, he attacked me. so who is disrespectful of the other person as a human being ?

 

The nice thing about duels is that both participants can always openly stipulate terms ahead of the duel so that there's no doubt as to what is going to be considered fair play and what is not.

 

The same can be done with any sort of arranged match like a GvG.

 

The difference with an impromptu fight is that one side can show up thinking the agreed upon rules are one thing while the other can show up thinking something drastically different i.e one group thinks it's going to be a fight without pin snipe and one group shows up with the express intent of just focusing the pin down.

 

So to reiterate and slightly expand my original post pin snipe is indeed quite effective and certainly a non-bannable tactic but it's boring because it kills fights. I also think that the thought process of "this game is actually a war so I'm going to do literally whatever it takes to win" can lead to some very dark places very quickly. I would highly advise against that sort of thinking.

 

The consistent answer would be to say never under any circumstance just like what I've said with acs but I've been in the situation before with myself or a friend being pin sniped so I know the temptation to just say "go ahead and do it back." Still two wrongs do not make a right.