Nikal.4921 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 > @"Buran.3796" said: > > @"Nikal.4921" said: > > > @"Buran.3796" said: > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said: > > > > > > > > Play PvP/WvW and you'll be swimming in charges. With this many options to get them without having to buy them they don't need to change > > > > > > > > And nothing for PvE players? Not everyone likes every mode. > > > > > > Then play PvE and get the free completing maps. > > > > > > Seriously dude, this is the MMO with the easiest life for wardrobe fashionistas. > > Every other MMO I've played allows players to change their clothes for free. Anet's system is outdated. It should be enough that we pay for the skins IMO. > > And how many lets you to share every skin, every dye (with infinite uses) account along. Plus, you can customize the skin of every part, and outfits are also shared and can be changed at no cost. And the dyes are affordable outside a few onew whicha nyway end being free in the birthay gifts. > > Please, if you still find the skin system hard go try some other MMOs, in most of them you can't avoid to look like a hobo without spending real money. Plus in most of them every time they release a new expansion your stats automatically become trash and you need to grind new levels and gear to even been able to play top content. > > I will give one example in particular: LOTRO (been years since I played tho). Stores every piece of gear you ever get as an image. You can dye each image with multiple colors and the colors are stored and available in a drop-down list. You can change your look freely thru this system. And no armor weight limitations- you can have the look of any armor weight. And yes, cosmetics are available in their store (and you should see their cloaks!), but the same holds true for GW2. Other games do it differently, but the constant is, you are not charged for changing clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"phs.6089" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"RazielSpecter.6295" said: > > > PvE players can get completing the map > > > > and after completing a map........? > > farm gold in pve, convert to gems, buy from bl > > Seriously to farm 600 gems to get 25 transmutation charges is way quicker them me doing 8 pvp tracks That's for PvP, in WvW you get even more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode.4257 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I have 20 left, and Im scared to use them. I too would like them to go away, or amp up the frequency at which we get them. One per login day + 1 for completing dailies should be plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 GW2 doesn't charge you for changing clothes. I swap armor sets all the time. It charges you for fashion changes. Cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius.2140 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Personally i think they could give less in pvp and been on sale for a small sum like 5s - 10 s. It could be a very good gold sink, however i admit it will hit the in game Gini making the poor even more poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > GW2 doesn't charge you for changing clothes. I swap armor sets all the time. > > It charges you for fashion changes. Cosmetic. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"phs.6089" said: > That's for PvP, in WvW you get even more of them. Not true, 1 wvw track takes 8 hours, plus you get one single charge from leveling chest https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Chest The thing is wvw and pvp players get it while doing things they want. pve players have to do specific things or spend farmed gold on gems. But ummhh gold is plenty in pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is applicable for everyone. Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 There's probably a lot of people that do buy charges, it's one of the ways Anet earns money. So why would they cut their own income just to suit your needs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. What? A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > What? > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > What? > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. Are we even talking about the same thing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridedemon.3041 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > @"Buran.3796" said: > > > > I have ~1050 unused and want to keep them, thanx. > > > > > > If you have so many what will it change to simply remove them? > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > Play PvP/WvW and you'll be swimming in charges. With this many options to get them without having to buy them they don't need to change > > > > > > And nothing for PvE players? Not everyone likes every mode. > > > > To your first point: " if having to pay to change armor skin is a good mechanic " you said, well Romang is refuting your statement in saying that you don't have to pay to change armor skin. > > > > To your second point: there are many mechanisms through which a PvE only player can earn transmutation charges, the most readily method being map completion. Completing the map on a capital city rewards 1 charge. Completing any other core tyria map rewards either a BL key, or more likely 1 transmutation charge. > > > > My wife who is a very casual player, and only steps into WvW to bang out a missing daily, still has about 30 unused charges in her wallet, after only playing this game for 4-5 months. > > > > To answer your question, why remove a system that works fine? > > > > I'm not going to defend this system by saying it's good (it isn't), but it was a design choice ANET made, and it works just fine, so we just roll with it. > > > > There is not an infinite amount of maps to complete. I don't think having to recreate characters to dicovers the main cities and then delete them is a good way to obtain them. Sorry. > As for others potential PvE ways to get them, I'm doing all my daily fractals, all daily PvE, a good amount of world bosses every day, and I don't get even one charge out of it. If you don't think the system should disappear, at least acknowledge that there is a large inbalance between PvP and PvE modes. > > And I don't understand the first thing you said > > > @"Healix.5819" said: > > It's unlikely that they'll ever remove them because it'd be too much trouble. Doing so would mean refunds for all recent purchases and having to compensate for any existing charges. They'd be far more likely to simply add them to merchants for gold or karma, while removing them from all other sources to turn the wardrobe into a sink. Maybe they'll revamp it if they ever get around to wardrobe slots / build templates. > > Just turn them back into gems? PVE awards so much loot/money that a PVE player can actually earn transmutation stones much faster then a PVP player if you turn the gold into gems and simply buy them off TP. Transmutation charges are just an item from a bygone era, they are not gonna remove it because doing so will require fair amount of coding and mechanics change, an amount of time that can be spent on much better thing like new content. I have over 350 charges in my wardrobe and mind you i change skins on my 13 characters fairly regularly. If i never spent a charge i would have over couple thousand to my account and i never bought a single one. I guess this will only be a problem for a new account who immediately wishes to buy a new skin and transmute it (and lets be honest most of the new armor skins in gem shop for over couple years are outfits which don't need charge anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PseudoNewb.5468 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I don't transmute, because I can't be bothered thinking about how many transmutation charges I have. And I don't care if my character is wearing the generic crafted exotic skins anyways. If I did transmute, I'd probably have enough to not care for a while, but I have pretty much decided not to use them. Outfits are convenient and don't use currency, so the current system pretty much influences me to use whatever cheap outfit I have on most of my characters. And the only weapons I have transmuted where from weapon skin items that I collected and need to dispose from my inventory, or those achievement ones that are easy to use because they are unlimited from the achievement panel. I think the charges keep some people away from using the wardrobe or participating in fashion wars 2. No matter how small the barrier, the psychological effects of having this barrier can change people's behavior, and I don't think the behaviors that transmutation charges influence are positive for the game as a whole. Would I use skins more if there where no transmutation currency costs? I dunno, maybe I don't care all that much, but I would probably apply skins once in a while rather than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. And you need to pay an expansion on GW2 to play the said expansion. You're comparing what shouldn't be compared... > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? Because I don't want to play that mode. And I shouldn't be forced to it, there should be others way to gain them (other than overpriced gemstore purchases). > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is applicable for everyone. But here we have some actual statistics, that of the people who come here to discuss it. Many of them are saying that transmutation charges are super easy to come by. None of them, outside of PvE players (and those don't seem to say they're buying any charge), need to buy any charge. In that logic, I think it's only fair to assume that the income generated by transmutation charges is minimal. Also, as I already said, if ANet really wanted to generate income from this, changing others things than armor skins, like outfits, would also require transmutation charges. That alone seems to prove that they are an outdated system that ANet wouldn't implement if they had to do it all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > > > What? > > > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. > > What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? again, it has nothing to do with a sub, stop using the sub excuse. aslo, SWToR and LOTRO sells outfit slots, pretty much the same thing but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > And you need to pay an expansion on GW2 to play the said expansion. You're comparing what shouldn't be compared... As you have to for WoW, SWTOR, ESO, LOTRO and just about any other MMO. Are you serious now? You think your 30 bucks every 2 years even remotely cover the developement costs? Get real please. > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > Because I don't want to play that mode. And I shouldn't be forced to it, there should be others way to gain them (other than overpriced gemstore purchases). > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is applicable for everyone. > But here we have some actual statistics, that of the people who come here to discuss it. Many of them are saying that transmutation charges are super easy to come by. None of them, outside of PvE players (and those don't seem to say they're buying any charge), need to buy any charge. Let's see, your statistics are based on participation in: - a gaming forum - from people who probably followed a link to a topic that interests them - who likely have a similar opinion - asking for something to be made cheaper I'm sorry, but that is just silly. If you had ever worked with actual statistics you'd know that this thread, any poll or any other "writen" data is meaningless. > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > In that logic, I think it's only fair to assume that the income generated by transmutation charges is minimal. Also, as I already said, if ANet really wanted to generate income from this, changing others things than armor skins, like outfits, would also require transmutation charges. That alone seems to prove that they are an outdated system that ANet wouldn't implement if they had to do it all over again. You can assume all you want. Actions speak louder than words, and so far Arenanets actions have been clear: keep the transmutation system the way it is. There is a sweet spot between greed and sensible revenue. Outfits were added to provide less convenience compared to regular skins but not require transmutation charges. They were implemented exactly in order to allow players to not use transmutation charges while losing massive amounts of customization. The only thing outfits show is that Arenanet has a pretty good feel for what can be sold and what can't, thus again supporting that them not changing the transmutation system likely means it generates enough revenue for them to be satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > > > > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > > > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. > > > > What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. > > > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? > > again, it has nothing to do with a sub, stop using the sub excuse. > aslo, SWToR and LOTRO sells outfit slots, pretty much the same thing but better. WoW makes money via their subscription. They pay their developers from that money thus they have no pay to win or pay for convenience systems in place. LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO and similar monetization models impose severe restrictions (as does GW2 on it's F2P version) and use a balance between forcing people to spend money and locking things behind must by or want to have items. They offer subscriptions to remove a majority of said restrictions or one time payments. GW2 does so in a similar manner just on different items and with no subscriptions possibility. You not understanding how business works does not mean that one has nothing to do with the other. I've tried to explain how SWTOR, ESO and LOTRO make money in different areas, but you just keep looking at 1 aspect of the entire business model without trying to understand that it has to be viewed as a while. If GW2 is making money with TM charges and they change the system, this loss in revenue needs to get made from some where else. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > If GW2 is making money with TM charges and they change the system, this loss in revenue needs to get made from some where else. It's that simple. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos.4263 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I have a ton of these things and I use them constantly. I don't even think about it. I don't buy them directly, I just sort of end up with them because of my massive BLK addiction. And a little WvW. If they just flat-out disappeared, I admit I'd be upset. I really like the complete freedom in changing my look they provide, though I wouldn't begrudge others having that freedom if they change the system to let us freely re-skin things. However, I've spent significant resources to obtain them as a consolation prize. I would like them to be replaced with something of equal value, or store credit. Or...something. (Not to mention all those charges I've gifted to friends with gemstore purchases...I'd want those gems refunded.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > > > > > > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > > > > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. > > > > > > What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. > > > > > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? > > > > again, it has nothing to do with a sub, stop using the sub excuse. > > aslo, SWToR and LOTRO sells outfit slots, pretty much the same thing but better. > > WoW makes money via their subscription. They pay their developers from that money thus they have no pay to win or pay for convenience systems in place. > > LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO and similar monetization models impose severe restrictions (as does GW2 on it's F2P version) and use a balance between forcing people to spend money and locking things behind must by or want to have items. They offer subscriptions to remove a majority of said restrictions or one time payments. GW2 does so in a similar manner just on different items and with no subscriptions possibility. > > You not understanding how business works does not mean that one has nothing to do with the other. I've tried to explain how SWTOR, ESO and LOTRO make money in different areas, but you just keep looking at 1 aspect of the entire business model without trying to understand that it has to be viewed as a while. > > If GW2 is making money with TM charges and they change the system, this loss in revenue needs to get made from some where else. It's that simple. Everything you ever say is "if they do it, there's a reason", and when people try to tell you that _perhaps_ there aren't that many reasons, or there are better ways, you just say that we can't know. In short you seem to beleive ANet can't make any mistake and their way must be the best way. I hear you but at this point you can say that for absolutely everything in the game, and thus user feedback would be useless. I'm sorry, there is no point arguing with you if that's all you're going to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > > > > > > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > > > > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. > > > > > > What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. > > > > > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? > > > > again, it has nothing to do with a sub, stop using the sub excuse. > > aslo, SWToR and LOTRO sells outfit slots, pretty much the same thing but better. > > WoW makes money via their subscription. They pay their developers from that money thus they have no pay to win or pay for convenience systems in place. > > LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO and similar monetization models impose severe restrictions (as does GW2 on it's F2P version) and use a balance between forcing people to spend money and locking things behind must by or want to have items. They offer subscriptions to remove a majority of said restrictions or one time payments. GW2 does so in a similar manner just on different items and with no subscriptions possibility. > > You not understanding how business works does not mean that one has nothing to do with the other. I've tried to explain how SWTOR, ESO and LOTRO make money in different areas, but you just keep looking at 1 aspect of the entire business model without trying to understand that it has to be viewed as a while. > > If GW2 is making money with TM charges and they change the system, this loss in revenue needs to get made from some where else. It's that simple. ok, since you think you know how this works, let me explain how it REALLY works in the real world. both LOTRO and SWTOR have absolutely no exchange system, so any purchase players make are cold hard cash regardless. so every pack, every mount and every single character slot gives them income. in GW2 they do have an exchange system, ppl can buy the most expensive items for nothing but time. so every mount, every pack and every character slot can be gained for absolutely NOTHING. you're the one who only looks at it at 1 aspect while ignoring half of it, the charges barely gives them any money at all, if at all. they are so dirty cheap you have to be really desperate to buy them with real money, i am a horrible farmer yet even i am able to get enough gold to get them for free if the need is high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds to me like Transmutation Charges come from a time where ANet didn't know yet that the game would be so cosmetic-focused. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, it sounds to me exactly as if they knew that. Which is why they charge for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are easy enough to come by without spending real cash, I doubt Anet makes any serious revenue with TM charges at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we can freely change our outfit, our dyes, our mount, our glider, our finisher, our gathering tools, our miniature, and our mail carrier, all for free. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dyes, finishers, and miniatures never required transmutation. When introduced, gliders, mail carriers, and mounts also didn't require it. Part of the trade-off for Outfits is that they are free to swap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because of this, Anet should bring armor and weapon transmutation in line with the other free-to-swap cosmetics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any point keeping transmutation charges in the game? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, to generate revenue for ANet. Allowing for the pretense that we can ignore refunding those who purchased transmutation charges, what's you plan for maintaining the current income from people buying them on the gem store? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know the numbers, but again I doubt any real revenue is made from selling TM charges. Bad systems have been changed before, and I don't think anyone would actually whine about refunds because they spent a few bucks on the charges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple fact, you not knowing and them not changing the system already shows that you might be incorrect or they might not have come around to changing it. Then again it could also show that there is justifiable income from TM charge purchases and as such they are hesitant in changing the system (after originally changing TO this system in the past). > > > > > > > > > It is obvious. No one is going to pay 2 days worth of playtime to change an armor set, when you can do the same in less than 2 hours in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop assuming and realize your own personal very subjective view and financial situation is not applicable for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode, that alone should tell you that not very many people play it. There is a ton of pve only players who never step into spvp or wvw. If transmutation charges are so easy to come by, why are you not using your own advice and get them via WvW? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > I personally like to believe developers remove or change system that are un-fun and generate no income since there is no point in keeping them. Same goes for very convoluted systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet could also introduce an infinite TM stone in the gem store for ~1000-ish gems or so. Now I believe this would create some actual revenue, since most non-WvW or PvP players would probably want this, unless they want to keep grinding map completion multiple times just to swap their armor. Maybe there could be a system where you can buy this from a vendor with 10k transmutation charges or something as well. I would definitely be buying this, since I'm literally always out of TMs. Even with WvW I'm struggling with them all the time, for I like to constantly try out different looks and have many alts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is a niche game mode. It is very likely that a vast majority of PvE only players are spending significant money on TM charges. > > > > > > > > > Even though I can only speak for myself, as a PvE-only player, I have never, ever in my entire life spent a single gem on TM charges. And it seems I'm not the only one in that case. However, no one came to brag about regularly paying for TM charges yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you, I have never ever purchased Black Lion Keys yet I know people who buy 75-100 of them with each new Black Lion upgrade. I have never bought any type of waypoint unlock, boosters of any kind or the home instance teleport stone (or transmutation charges), yet I know people buy these items and would never assume that my personal approach is not applicable for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, if the system does not generate revenue, it will get changed to either generate revenue or be more convenient (again considering the old system was changed to the current one). Subjective experiences are of 0 value when discussing what is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it now; TM charges is an outdated and just a bad system overall. Most MMOs out there let you change your skins for free without all the hassle, and it should pretty much be self-explanatory in games like this. It is also a very unfair system, since players of certain gamemodes can hoard them up by the thousands, while PvE players either pay gems for them, or work boring and repetitive content just to get their hands on a few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most MMOs out there also have way more annoying pay to win or convenience cash shops. You are literally saying you want more of one bad thing in exchange for another. If I had a choice between the TM charge system and some of the things other MMOs charge for, I'm happy to curb my TM charge spending for not having to deal with more invasive mechanics for money. > > > > > > > > > It is funny that you keep saying that while offering no example at all. And even so, it is not because others games do it very badly that GW2 should be Ok doing it "just a bit" badly. > > > > > > > > > But again, we already talked about LOTRO, and there's also WoW that allows you to freely change your set (it costs a ridiculously small amount of golds to do so). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WoW has a subscription fee, LOTRO charges for a ton of things which GW2 does not charge for like transportation, imposed limitations on free accounts, new maps, classes etc. unless you subscribe. I can go on about SWTOR and how EA charges for hotskill bars and many other basically necessary items. So I'm not sure how you believe any of these games to be fair comparisons when GW2 is by far the cheapest, most free to play one among all of them. The revenue has to come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a sub fee has nothing to do with systems, Anet could just as much add an outfit system like SWTOR and still get something out of it, they would just make it more convenient for ppl. > > > > > > > IMO there should be a system that balances this out, allowing skin sets being used without directly applying it on armors yet have a way for Anet to still get something stable out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > > > > > A sub fee has everything to do with systems if those systems are part of the monetization. > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: yes and they could adopt many of the other SWTOR monetization items and make the game way worse by forcing people to sub or pay for every minor thing. Stop looking at partial system and try to make assumptions based on things which sort of are similar. SWTOR has a terrible exploitative monetization model compared to GW2. > > > > > > > > > > wrong, there are free games with the exact system yet they don't use any sub. > > > > > and you should stop assuming everything good needs a sub, think outside the box and explore possibilities beyond what you know. > > > > > > > > What, I never assumed anything good needs a sub or even remotely said so. I said that the games you named used subscriptions to generate revenue thus they can afford to not have monetization in things like transmutation or cosmetic. > > > > > > > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? > > > > > > again, it has nothing to do with a sub, stop using the sub excuse. > > > aslo, SWToR and LOTRO sells outfit slots, pretty much the same thing but better. > > > > WoW makes money via their subscription. They pay their developers from that money thus they have no pay to win or pay for convenience systems in place. > > > > LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO and similar monetization models impose severe restrictions (as does GW2 on it's F2P version) and use a balance between forcing people to spend money and locking things behind must by or want to have items. They offer subscriptions to remove a majority of said restrictions or one time payments. GW2 does so in a similar manner just on different items and with no subscriptions possibility. > > > > You not understanding how business works does not mean that one has nothing to do with the other. I've tried to explain how SWTOR, ESO and LOTRO make money in different areas, but you just keep looking at 1 aspect of the entire business model without trying to understand that it has to be viewed as a while. > > > > If GW2 is making money with TM charges and they change the system, this loss in revenue needs to get made from some where else. It's that simple. > > Everything you ever say is "if they do it, there's a reason", and when people try to tell you that _perhaps_ there aren't that many reasons, or there are better ways, you just say that we can't know. In short you seem to beleive ANet can't make any mistake and their way must be the best way. I hear you but at this point you can say that for absolutely everything in the game, and thus user feedback would be useless. I'm sorry, there is no point arguing with you if that's all you're going to say... No, I believe that Arenanet is in business of delivering a MMO with a specific monetization in place. I have already mentioned why I believe this to remain the way it is and what I believe they would do in either scenario. You are the one going on with 0 facts, 0 logical approach and just wishful thinking. If you can show that Transmutation Charges are a 0 sum mechanic in game or that the overall revenue benefit to Arenanet would be bigger with a different approach, I'd support your suggestion and I'm sure Arenanet employees would gladly pick it up. Until then I'm mentally filing it under:"player demand which does not pass the basic requirement of being at least revenue neutral." Chances are very low that such a change will get implemented or even get taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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