Away 5 years; My impression of GW2 as a MMORPG

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Rise.8259" said:

> I am unsure why so many of you latched on to whining about how you think the jumping puzzles aren't crap when that was actually an insignificant footnote in my post which really covered more general impressions about the game.

 

Probably because many wants to comment, but might not find something to comment about in the rest of the post, but a lot of people can relate to the Not So Secret part. Essentially the JP is a way to open conversation :)

 

I thought it was interesting to read your thoughts on the game, I also see a few things I think is strange: like you talking about "little grind" before you hit max level, where most games usually starts the grind (It still isn't bad in gw2). But didn't see any point in talking about it, as you'd experience it well enough in your own time.

 

(4) The scaling system should reduce some of this, by scaling the levels and gear down to the area level +2. But it doesn't remove the build/synergies (traits, runes, sigils etc). This is especially obvious on the first maps (0-15 starter maps), but gets less obvious from the second maps onward (15-25 and later). Thankfully they changed the mount attacks, as those didn't scale properly at all, so you could oneshot most mobs with the raptor in low level maps. So while it is unfortunate, we're kinda stuck with it (unless ANet wants to tweak and twiddle with the level scaler again).

 

(6) Basically, it is more work, for little actual benefit, to hack out the system.

 

(8) Honestly, the feel of powercreep is more because they've gone over and nerfed the starter maps a few times, and the NPE in general gave players a slight powerboost, while the enemies never got the same.

[Yannir.4132]

> @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > Jumping control in GW2 isn't perfect, but it's less clunky and imprecise than you make it sound. Jumping control in SWTOR is infinitely worse.

> >

> > The one thing that freaks me out in GW2 in JPs is that sometimes when I move in a direction the game seems to think I'm double clicking to dodge and that unexpected roll off the tiny platform you're on can really ruin my day lol. (I have fear of heights which also affects me in game so JPs are quite a challenge for me).

>

> I feel the same - I wish there could be an option to disable dodging altogether in JPs

 

There is. Disable the Doubletap to dodge-option in the Options Menu.(then move your default dodge keybind "V" somewhere further away from your movement keys)

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > > Jumping control in GW2 isn't perfect, but it's less clunky and imprecise than you make it sound. Jumping control in SWTOR is infinitely worse.

> > >

> > > The one thing that freaks me out in GW2 in JPs is that sometimes when I move in a direction the game seems to think I'm double clicking to dodge and that unexpected roll off the tiny platform you're on can really ruin my day lol. (I have fear of heights which also affects me in game so JPs are quite a challenge for me).

> >

> > I feel the same - I wish there could be an option to disable dodging altogether in JPs

>

> There is. Disable the Doubletap to dodge-option in the Options Menu.(then move your default dodge keybind "V" somewhere further away from your movement keys)

 

That's what I like about these forums, I learn so many useful things here, mostly about QoL stuff and options I didn't realise are there hehe.

[GenghisKhan.7842]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > > Jumping control in GW2 isn't perfect, but it's less clunky and imprecise than you make it sound. Jumping control in SWTOR is infinitely worse.

> > >

> > > The one thing that freaks me out in GW2 in JPs is that sometimes when I move in a direction the game seems to think I'm double clicking to dodge and that unexpected roll off the tiny platform you're on can really ruin my day lol. (I have fear of heights which also affects me in game so JPs are quite a challenge for me).

> >

> > I feel the same - I wish there could be an option to disable dodging altogether in JPs

>

> There is. Disable the Doubletap to dodge-option in the Options Menu.

 

Oh yes, I know that one - but I still often mis-tap the V key to roll, which is very close to the jump key area I normally use

Also, double tap to dodge is what I normally uye elsewhere, and having to enable / disable while out / in JP is very annoying

I had in mind a tickbox "Disable dodging in JP", but thinking twice about it would not work, because there are JPs where you also need to fight

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I don't think you can say anything with such a short time playing with a very large gap, it's like you've never played the game

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Jump controls in the game is generally pretty good.

>

> But all the jump pads in NSS is truly kitten kitten kitten! Especially if going after the Diving Gogles.

 

The goggles are an achievement so there's no reason except masochism to do them twice, and more to the point you can do them on _any_ character and they'll count. My advice, therefore, is to do them on a Staff Daredevil if you have HoT. I mean, it could be any class with a ground-target leap skill (Engi/Rifle, DH, etc.), but Vault has the advantage of being powered by Initiative and therefore (within limits) spammable. Those cog-launchers as you cross from the pipework near the split from the JP path to the vertical part? Vault *next to* the cogs - each is on a little platform with enough room to do that - and you will have totally fine-grained control of where you go.

 

The only really obnoxious mechanical launcher is the one by the Aetherblade Thug after you exit the main deck of the airship. You know, the one that throws you up to the top spar of the rear fin of the ship. It's obnoxious because you can't Vault it, and the landing spot is very short in the direction you're moving.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > > > Jumping control in GW2 isn't perfect, but it's less clunky and imprecise than you make it sound. Jumping control in SWTOR is infinitely worse.

> > > >

> > > > The one thing that freaks me out in GW2 in JPs is that sometimes when I move in a direction the game seems to think I'm double clicking to dodge and that unexpected roll off the tiny platform you're on can really ruin my day lol. (I have fear of heights which also affects me in game so JPs are quite a challenge for me).

> > >

> > > I feel the same - I wish there could be an option to disable dodging altogether in JPs

> >

> > There is. Disable the Doubletap to dodge-option in the Options Menu.

>

> Oh yes, I know that one - but I still often mis-tap the V key to roll, which is very close to the jump key area I normally use

> Also, double tap to dodge is what I normally uye elsewhere, and having to enable / disable while out / in JP is very annoying

> I had in mind a tickbox "Disable dodging in JP", but thinking twice about it would not work, because there are JPs where you also need to fight

 

Hmmm, I didn't think I had this issue but now that it's being talked about, perhaps I unknowingly hit V from time to time and that's what's causing it... that's something to look into for sure.

 

Now to not derail the thread let me offer some reply to the OP here:

 

I think that the game has been made a bit easier overall (Orr definitely isn't as hard as it used to be) and gear is indeed easy to come by. When I played after HoT came out for a couple of months I could already put on exotic gear right away at level 80 because I had the in game currencies for it. Then I kinda felt like, now what? Ascended gear was out of reach because I hated crafting and I wasn't interested in fractals or raiding in this game anyway. So I think that tells you why you might die less at least in part. Easy gear and toned down difficulty in some areas will make that happen. I am happy to no longer have repair costs because when I do die, I generally have to go to the nearest portal, which costs money and the repair cost on top of that was just double punishment. I always wanted them to pick one. But since people move to portals for more reasons than death, that's the better gold sink so it made sense it's the repair costs they removed.

 

Not being able to retrieve deleted characters is a hole in their customer service though.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > Jump controls in the game is generally pretty good.

> >

> > But all the jump pads in NSS is truly kitten kitten kitten! Especially if going after the Diving Gogles.

>

> The goggles are an achievement so there's no reason except masochism to do them twice, and more to the point you can do them on _any_ character and they'll count. My advice, therefore, is to do them on a Staff Daredevil if you have HoT. I mean, it could be any class with a ground-target leap skill (Engi/Rifle, DH, etc.), but Vault has the advantage of being powered by Initiative and therefore (within limits) spammable. Those cog-launchers as you cross from the pipework near the split from the JP path to the vertical part? Vault *next to* the cogs - each is on a little platform with enough room to do that - and you will have totally fine-grained control of where you go.

>

> The only really obnoxious mechanical launcher is the one by the Aetherblade Thug after you exit the main deck of the airship. You know, the one that throws you up to the top spar of the rear fin of the ship. It's obnoxious because you can't Vault it, and the landing spot is very short in the direction you're moving.

 

Thanks, but already completed it (on a DD staff thief!). And not touching it again.

 

The worst ones in my opinion are the jump pads at the end before the top with the diving googles, where you have to start moving forward on the jump pad before it actually launches you, or you don't get enough momentum to reach the next. In general I dislike the JP/DG because it is dependent upon all those jump pads, since they are imprecise, as opposed to the actual jumps in the game (which is pretty good!).

 

I can do the JP itself pretty reliably now, but I still get annoyed by all the jump pads.

[derd.6413]

> @"Magek.4718" said:

> Yeah. It dors kind of beg the question.

>

> If armor repair is free, why does armor get damaged. Just cut out the middle man, no point in having an annoyance for the sake of having an annoyance

 

So player don't bang their heads against a wall over and over again. (Also i'm pretty sure you used to pay for repairs)

[Ben K.6238]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> Not being able to retrieve deleted characters is a hole in their customer service though.

 

If the characters were deleted in 2013, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to remain in the database anymore.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > Not being able to retrieve deleted characters is a hole in their customer service though.

>

> If the characters were deleted in 2013, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to remain in the database anymore.

 

But that character didn't deserve to be murdered in the first place. Then the OP disrespects the corpse by bring it back to life, just so they can have another round of being a puppet to an entity that gets upset over change.

[Rise.8259]

I am level 63 currently.

One of the things I have so far been the most surprised about is how fast you level from quests, events, dungeons, story etc.

 

When I last played the game, it seemed like it took me forever to get to the mid teens on my engineer.

Now I can breeze past that like nothing.

I wonder if they bumped up the EXP gain.

However, there is one other explanation: It's possible that I use to try leveling up more by getting lots of kills, without realizing that quests were vastly quicker ways of leveling up to the point where kills kind of are irrelevant. (Which is actually a good system because it encourages you to participate in content rather than just grind camps of mobs, which I always hated the later).

I also have concluded that GW2 probably borrowed their entire event system from Tabula Rasa. The combat in that game, combined with their quest and event battles, were great. I really wish that game had stuck around. Another great MMO game murdered by NCsoft that didn't need to be.

 

I also use to struggle more with killing enemies on my engineer, even though turrets had not been nerfed as they are now.

Even when paired with a mesmer friend we had trouble sometimes with dying.

I wonder if they reduced the solo difficulty of everything in the game.

The fact that higher rarity items are too easy to pull off the market could also be a contributing factor to the game being easier. Or maybe equipment is dropping more often too.

 

I actually intended to experience all the content at a leisurely pace, fully exploring each map, at least on my first run to level 80 - but I find myself leveling up so rapidly that I am forced to move on to new areas for a challenge.

The crazy thing is the other day I put on a crafting XP boost I found and grinded out a bunch of crafting of stockpiled components and I gained like 4 or 5 levels from crafting alone!

 

One of the things I have been enjoying least about this game is that I don't think the game does enough to scale people's levels down for the dungeon or zone they are in. From a personal standpoint you won't find the content a challenge, and thus probably won't find it fun.

Although it's interesting how they've made it possible to level up about the same by doing lower level content, I don't enjoy this because it ends up being too easy. I like the sense of pushing the boundries of what my character can do by tackling something just above what I should be able to. Even if it takes longer and I die in the process.

From a group standpoint, dungeons can be basically unplayable if you get a level 250+ on your team. You feel like a spectator just following them around while they solo the map. Your contribution doesn't feel like it matters, and there's no risk or challenge. I have greatly enjoyed the dungeons where everyone else on my team is more reasonably near by level and there's risk involved, and it takes us several tries to learn how to take down a boss.

I like that the content is playable and rewarding to higher levels, I just wish there was same way the game could cut back on their power level to a more reasonable place so that it's actually a challenge.

[Aaralyna.3104]

> @"Rise.8259" said:

> One of the things I have been enjoying least about this game is that I don't think the game does enough to scale people's levels down for the dungeon or zone they are in. From a personal standpoint you won't find the content a challenge, and thus probably won't find it fun.

> Although it's interesting how they've made it possible to level up about the same by doing lower level content, I don't enjoy this because it ends up being too easy. I like the sense of pushing the boundries of what my character can do by tackling something just above what I should be able to. Even if it takes longer and I die in the process.

> From a group standpoint, dungeons can be basically unplayable if you get a level 250+ on your team. You feel like a spectator just following them around while they solo the map. Your contribution doesn't feel like it matters, and there's no risk or challenge. I have greatly enjoyed the dungeons where everyone else on my team is more reasonably near by level and there's risk involved, and it takes us several tries to learn how to take down a boss.

> I like that the content is playable and rewarding to higher levels, I just wish there was same way the game could cut back on their power level to a more reasonable place so that it's actually a challenge.

 

This level 250+ you are talking about is not a players level. The level cap for everyone is lvl 80. The number you see above is the mastery points (think of get access to mount skills and gliding and hot/pof map only masteries). Any high level gets downscaled in any under lvl 80 maps. The only difference they have with low level players is that they have their builds fully unlocked and probably know how to play their classes better as they spent more time on it. Dungeons are group content. Story mode can be optionally soloed but this is not easy and takes a lot of deaths and play time. Explorable paths, they are even harder. The challenge is definetly still present and theres no leeching (ok maybe if you go with a full party you can leech but this would be the same for 5 low levels in it as everyone is on the same regardless).

 

[Rise.8259]

I am aware that it represents mastery level. But a level 250 is still going to be a lot more powerful than a level 80 due to more skills and likely better gear. I've seen the difference in their performance first hand.

 

I don't have a problem with them doing better because they can play better. But that's not the bulk of what is going on when they obliterate low level content.

[ShadowDove.8329]

Better gear can be obtained by anyone. You can run exotic gear (orange) and it will still be as viable as someone running ascended (pink). The difference is only about 5%. You can buy exotic gear for a fair price off the TP, or from karma vendors. Ascended gear is only completely essential in fractals, where you require the infusion slot for agony resistance.

 

If you have a look at the masteries tab on the hero panel, you'll see that the masteries don't really add too much extra skill to the player - they're more quality of life upgrades, as long as you're in vanilla maps. In HoT or PoF however, some of those extra skills are pretty much essential for survival.

 

People with higher mastery level does not necessarily mean they're very skilled at their class/build. However it IS more likely, as they've had more time to perfect their preferred playstyle, and HoT/PoF maps require you to have a good grasp on base mechanics if you don't want to die every 5 steps.

[Ephie.1275]

dont get the OP's drift .. JP is mandatory or optional ? if it is optional and it is frustrating , avoid it

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Rise.8259" said:

> I am aware that it represents mastery level. But a level 250 is still going to be a lot more powerful than a level 80 due to more skills and likely better gear. I've seen the difference in their performance first hand.

>

> I don't have a problem with them doing better because they can play better. But that's not the bulk of what is going on when they obliterate low level content.

 

This is the same thing again, the scaling adjusts some things (effective level, gear level/stats etc), but the gear still has a higher quality (exotic/ascended) than what you have available your first time through Ascalong Catacombs at level 30 or so (Fine/Masterwork), so even if scaled back they have a slight advantage there.

 

But that isn't the main difference, the main difference is having an effective build, which is basically impossible at level 30 since you haven't unlocked more than 1 trait line yet. Nor have access to all the runes/sigils needed (and they would be an economical waste on level 30 masterwork gear anyways). And most players that have farmed out 200+ mastery ranks, will usually have figured out how to make a build that can farm things reliably, which 99% of the time means "max damage".

 

There are a lot of damage multipliers in the traitlines, and most typical pve builds tend to stack these as much as they can, since they don't really need defensive traits very often.

 

---

 

Realistically, if ANet wanted to try to downscale players to be closer in effective power level to leveling characters, they should probably change they downscaler to somewhere between -5 to -10 levels from the map-level set for the area. So a level 80 entering AC story at set level 30, should be downleveld to 20-25.

 

But for some reason, I suspect a lot of people would get very upset about that :p Also because not everyone runs that sort of build, and they would be punished for that.

[Odinens.5920]

Just wait, my friend. Just wait. If it's challenge you're looking for it's waiting for you in LWS2 and HoT.