Jaunty.6018 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > Not sure why you play an mmo game at all, OP. One of the biggest part of any mmo is to progress your character, be it in story, equipment, achievements, fashion etc... And not over night of course. To progress, you usually have to do content you have already done, multiple times. Unless you really expect new story, skins, achievements every day for years? There's so much in Guild Wars 2 that you can accomplish without grinding. Most of the content, in fact. But what I've found in this thread is that one person's "grind" might be another person's pleasure. For instance, I don't find it too grindy to do the collections for the roller beetle or the griffon mount. Each achievement is a task, and they're all different. It takes a while, sure, but it's not just the same task _over and over again_. But if you do legitimately enjoy Istan farming, power to you. I'm simply saying that, for me, it is a very dull way to acquire gold, and when given the opportunity to pay a few dollars for an item I want vs. grind Istan for up to 60 hours (or even well beyond, depending on what item we're talking about here), I will be far more tempted to choose the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Haishao.6851" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > @"Haishao.6851" said: > > > The whole point of games is to waste time so it doesn't really matter how people chose to waste it. > > > > Why on Earth would you play a game just to waste time? Time is precious. I play games because I _enjoy_ them. > > > > Games are something you do when you got nothing better to do. It's to waste time. > That's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > Not sure why you play an mmo game at all, OP. One of the biggest part of any mmo is to progress your character, be it in story, equipment, achievements, fashion etc... And not over night of course. To progress, you usually have to do content you have already done, multiple times. Unless you really expect new story, skins, achievements every day for years? > > There's so much in Guild Wars 2 that you can accomplish without grinding. Most of the content, in fact. But what I've found in this thread is that one person's "grind" might be another person's pleasure. For instance, I don't find it too grindy to do the collections for the roller beetle or the griffon mount. Each achievement is a task, and they're all different. It takes a while, sure, but it's not just the same task _over and over again_. > > But if you do legitimately enjoy Istan farming, power to you. I'm simply saying that, for me, it is a very dull way to acquire gold, and when given the opportunity to pay a few dollars for an item I want vs. grind Istan for up to 60 hours (or even well beyond, depending on what item we're talking about here), I will be far more tempted to choose the former. Different strokes for different blokes, to be sure. Also, farmers and gem exchangers are two halves of the same system. The latter put gems into the exchange and take out gold. At least some of the farmers are putting gold into the exchange. The more gold entering the exchange, the better the deal for someone exchanging gems for gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g It was actually very close to 600g when I made this thread. That's how I got that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? > > > > > > > > > > First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. > > > > > > > > > > Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** > > > > > > > > You do need to make the right comparison for the topic. We are talking about 2000 gem cards that you can buy online for around 20 bucks. That will buy you just over 400 gold in game. If you're a farmer and you can make 20g per hour, that's great, but that's still 20 hours to make 400 gold and the OP clearly is not a farmer. A lot of people are not in fact and don't have the max MF bonuses etc. So the fact that it's possible, doesn't make it the mainstream experience. Also, not many people have the stomach to farm that much. So much repetition gets boring really fast. It does for me. > > > > > > > > So do not use that as the average experience is what I'm saying. > > > > > > > > Now the other mistake you clearly make is that you do not see time as a resource. But it is. It's a limited resource and things like birthdays and family events cost time as well. I cannot farm when I'm doing real life stuff. So when you have a job, family etc. you will not want to spend 20 hours farming for that 400 gold if you can buy it off with money which takes you 1-2 hours to make in our economy. > > > > > > > > It really is about balancing time and money the best way for yourself. Even if I have 20+ hours a week to game (which I personally do), that also doesn't mean I want to spend it on repetitive farming. Why not? Cause I do not enjoy it. So buying some gold to jump start my account after a couple of years absence made perfect sense to me. Also I don't need thousands of gold because I am happy to just spend my time getting ascended gear which is part gathering and part buying. I only need to make 10 gold on a day to break even on that. So luckily I do not require that much gold. > > > > > > > > It's all about choices but when you have decent job, which I know not everybody has, then 20 bucks here and there are a small thing compared to the hours of farming people propose. It's good that the game doesn't just cater to one group. > > > > > > It actually is the right comparison. The unofficial official exchange rate is $10 = 800 gems, ingame as well as on sites like Amazon.com from the official NcSoft vendor. I also was not framing it as the average player's experience. I referenced how much a _farmer_, a player who enjoys the effort required to maximize profits, could make within a time frame given by the OP. My apologizes for not specifying what I meant by _farmer._ As far as Magic Find goes, I referenced SW, which gives players a +200% boost, though I admit I was unconsciously counting other MF boosters as well; such as both item boosters, celebration boosters, and food. > > > > > > You are correct, time is a resource. I see it as a resource. However, I also see that I am already using that resource to play the game how I find it to be enjoyable, which also earns me rewards (Among them liquid gold). Therefore, I, personally, am earning gold for free. > > > > > > This debate ultimately comes down to personal circumstances and preferences. For me, I routinely buy gems to spend on gem shop items, because I like supporting the game, but never to trade in for gold. It is simply not worth it, when I have better IRL purchases I can make, and I have multiple ways to enjoy the game while earning gold. > > > > > > Your opinion may vary. > > > > > > > I agree that it's personal choice, but since this thread was made by a person who uses the 2000 gem cards, that's the comparison that's relevant for this thread. > > > > You've made your choices and decisions and that's cool. To me time is precious though and there are times that time is worth more than money. I don't think that I would regularly buy gold via gems as the OP did, though I also do not begrudge him his decisions, but I did buy gold because I haven't played this game much over the years and I wanted to catch up a bit, particularly by getting some crafting professions maxed which I've done now. So for me I'm good. For the rest I spend gems mostly on useful stuff like bank space, unbreakable gathering tools and shared inventory slots etc. Those things really improve the QoL for me in game. I never did gather much until I got the unbreakable tools for example. > > > > But I do understand your point more clearly and I thank you for specifying it a bit more. I didn't quite understand where you were coming from but now I do :) > > > > The OP also says he averaged 10g/hour and equates 2000 gems to 600g, when the average player may/does not. The average player may also not have secure or reliable access to those kinds of gem cards, while they do have such access to the BLTC and the $10 = 800 gems rate. > > Still, to be thorough, I'll use the $20 = 2,000 gems rate. > > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g. At our earlier farming rates we had 800g - 1,600g, from a 40 - 60 hour range as given by the OP. Assuming we're buying $20 gem cards, we would still have to spend **$40 - $80**, though we would have received 80g - 160g extra. Yeah he did say all that, though the 2000 gem cards for 20 bucks are really but his math is off. Taking your numbers I come at around 20 hours of farming, but at his rate of gold, which is I think a normal rate for non-farmers, you do get to 40 hours for 2000 gems. Now even with 20 hours, it amounts to spending 1 dollar or euro instead of having to far an hour. Or for a non-farmer it equates to paying 50 cents to avoid an hour of farming, which many may consider tedious and repetitive. So his math was clearly off but I do get his sentiment. What makes it different for me is that making 10 gold on a given day is generally enough to sustain my gold level. My main cost factor being the ascended armor I'm crafting a piece at a time. To me there is no wrong or right way to play in that sense but when you have money to spend and enjoy many elements of this game, but not the continuous farming, then buying it off can be an option. The thing is that each person has to decide for themselves what his or her time is worth. But farming feels like work to some of us and then being able to pay essentially other players at a rate of 50 cents to 1 buck an hour is a pretty good deal if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Hello. I am disabled. Because my disease is undiagnosed, I receive no financial or medical aid. I haven't been able to hold a job for over 8 years. I'm essentially somebody else's house pet. I don't have money to spend on the game. In fact, the only reason why I grind out gold is because otherwise I'd go insane from boredom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** > > > > > > > > > > You do need to make the right comparison for the topic. We are talking about 2000 gem cards that you can buy online for around 20 bucks. That will buy you just over 400 gold in game. If you're a farmer and you can make 20g per hour, that's great, but that's still 20 hours to make 400 gold and the OP clearly is not a farmer. A lot of people are not in fact and don't have the max MF bonuses etc. So the fact that it's possible, doesn't make it the mainstream experience. Also, not many people have the stomach to farm that much. So much repetition gets boring really fast. It does for me. > > > > > > > > > > So do not use that as the average experience is what I'm saying. > > > > > > > > > > Now the other mistake you clearly make is that you do not see time as a resource. But it is. It's a limited resource and things like birthdays and family events cost time as well. I cannot farm when I'm doing real life stuff. So when you have a job, family etc. you will not want to spend 20 hours farming for that 400 gold if you can buy it off with money which takes you 1-2 hours to make in our economy. > > > > > > > > > > It really is about balancing time and money the best way for yourself. Even if I have 20+ hours a week to game (which I personally do), that also doesn't mean I want to spend it on repetitive farming. Why not? Cause I do not enjoy it. So buying some gold to jump start my account after a couple of years absence made perfect sense to me. Also I don't need thousands of gold because I am happy to just spend my time getting ascended gear which is part gathering and part buying. I only need to make 10 gold on a day to break even on that. So luckily I do not require that much gold. > > > > > > > > > > It's all about choices but when you have decent job, which I know not everybody has, then 20 bucks here and there are a small thing compared to the hours of farming people propose. It's good that the game doesn't just cater to one group. > > > > > > > > It actually is the right comparison. The unofficial official exchange rate is $10 = 800 gems, ingame as well as on sites like Amazon.com from the official NcSoft vendor. I also was not framing it as the average player's experience. I referenced how much a _farmer_, a player who enjoys the effort required to maximize profits, could make within a time frame given by the OP. My apologizes for not specifying what I meant by _farmer._ As far as Magic Find goes, I referenced SW, which gives players a +200% boost, though I admit I was unconsciously counting other MF boosters as well; such as both item boosters, celebration boosters, and food. > > > > > > > > You are correct, time is a resource. I see it as a resource. However, I also see that I am already using that resource to play the game how I find it to be enjoyable, which also earns me rewards (Among them liquid gold). Therefore, I, personally, am earning gold for free. > > > > > > > > This debate ultimately comes down to personal circumstances and preferences. For me, I routinely buy gems to spend on gem shop items, because I like supporting the game, but never to trade in for gold. It is simply not worth it, when I have better IRL purchases I can make, and I have multiple ways to enjoy the game while earning gold. > > > > > > > > Your opinion may vary. > > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's personal choice, but since this thread was made by a person who uses the 2000 gem cards, that's the comparison that's relevant for this thread. > > > > > > You've made your choices and decisions and that's cool. To me time is precious though and there are times that time is worth more than money. I don't think that I would regularly buy gold via gems as the OP did, though I also do not begrudge him his decisions, but I did buy gold because I haven't played this game much over the years and I wanted to catch up a bit, particularly by getting some crafting professions maxed which I've done now. So for me I'm good. For the rest I spend gems mostly on useful stuff like bank space, unbreakable gathering tools and shared inventory slots etc. Those things really improve the QoL for me in game. I never did gather much until I got the unbreakable tools for example. > > > > > > But I do understand your point more clearly and I thank you for specifying it a bit more. I didn't quite understand where you were coming from but now I do :) > > > > > > > The OP also says he averaged 10g/hour and equates 2000 gems to 600g, when the average player may/does not. The average player may also not have secure or reliable access to those kinds of gem cards, while they do have such access to the BLTC and the $10 = 800 gems rate. > > > > Still, to be thorough, I'll use the $20 = 2,000 gems rate. > > > > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g. At our earlier farming rates we had 800g - 1,600g, from a 40 - 60 hour range as given by the OP. Assuming we're buying $20 gem cards, we would still have to spend **$40 - $80**, though we would have received 80g - 160g extra. > > Yeah he did say all that, though the 2000 gem cards for 20 bucks are really but his math is off. Taking your numbers I come at around 20 hours of farming, but at his rate of gold, which is I think a normal rate for non-farmers, you do get to 40 hours for 2000 gems. Now even with 20 hours, it amounts to spending 1 dollar or euro instead of having to far an hour. Or for a non-farmer it equates to paying 50 cents to avoid an hour of farming, which many may consider tedious and repetitive. > > So his math was clearly off but I do get his sentiment. What makes it different for me is that making 10 gold on a given day is generally enough to sustain my gold level. My main cost factor being the ascended armor I'm crafting a piece at a time. > > To me there is no wrong or right way to play in that sense but when you have money to spend and enjoy many elements of this game, but not the continuous farming, then buying it off can be an option. The thing is that each person has to decide for themselves what his or her time is worth. But farming feels like work to some of us and then being able to pay essentially other players at a rate of 50 cents to 1 buck an hour is a pretty good deal if you think about it. I will go ahead and admit that I am not the greatest at math, but how was mine off? 600 gold divided by 30g got me 20. That doesn't mean 20 hours, that means 20 of each session (3 hours each) that netted me 30g. 20 x 3 (hours) = 60 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > Not sure why you play an mmo game at all, OP. One of the biggest part of any mmo is to progress your character, be it in story, equipment, achievements, fashion etc... And not over night of course. To progress, you usually have to do content you have already done, multiple times. Unless you really expect new story, skins, achievements every day for years? > > There's so much in Guild Wars 2 that you can accomplish without grinding. Most of the content, in fact. But what I've found in this thread is that one person's "grind" might be another person's pleasure. For instance, I don't find it too grindy to do the collections for the roller beetle or the griffon mount. Each achievement is a task, and they're all different. It takes a while, sure, but it's not just the same task _over and over again_. > > But if you do legitimately enjoy Istan farming, power to you. I'm simply saying that, for me, it is a very dull way to acquire gold, and when given the opportunity to pay a few dollars for an item I want vs. grind Istan for up to 60 hours (or even well beyond, depending on what item we're talking about here), I will be far more tempted to choose the former. I'm not the type to farm Istan or things like that. I also consider it boring, but I wouldn't go and make topic about it. It just seems kinda pointless to make a topic and notify people "hey, you can buy gold instead, you know?". I'm pretty sure they know, so this thread comes out as not having a point other than maybe poking fun at people who take in your opinion longer and unnecessary route for earning gold. Actually, I have a good example. I personally earn majority of my gold with gathering for last 2 months. By your logic, that would be boring, repetitive and not worth the time. But, for me, I very much enjoy it, because I can put on music, run around and mine ore and chop the trees at my own pace. I can take a break in between anytime and continue when I feel like and it will be there waiting for me, where I left of. I also bump into events along the way and chat with guild a bit, so it's very relaxing "farming". Also, some people might prefer farming 3 hours in a video game that they enjoy playing than doing one extra hour at their work. Or some don't even have an option to get payed extra, but instead for extra hours they do, they can take a day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** > > > > > > > > > > > > You do need to make the right comparison for the topic. We are talking about 2000 gem cards that you can buy online for around 20 bucks. That will buy you just over 400 gold in game. If you're a farmer and you can make 20g per hour, that's great, but that's still 20 hours to make 400 gold and the OP clearly is not a farmer. A lot of people are not in fact and don't have the max MF bonuses etc. So the fact that it's possible, doesn't make it the mainstream experience. Also, not many people have the stomach to farm that much. So much repetition gets boring really fast. It does for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > So do not use that as the average experience is what I'm saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now the other mistake you clearly make is that you do not see time as a resource. But it is. It's a limited resource and things like birthdays and family events cost time as well. I cannot farm when I'm doing real life stuff. So when you have a job, family etc. you will not want to spend 20 hours farming for that 400 gold if you can buy it off with money which takes you 1-2 hours to make in our economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > It really is about balancing time and money the best way for yourself. Even if I have 20+ hours a week to game (which I personally do), that also doesn't mean I want to spend it on repetitive farming. Why not? Cause I do not enjoy it. So buying some gold to jump start my account after a couple of years absence made perfect sense to me. Also I don't need thousands of gold because I am happy to just spend my time getting ascended gear which is part gathering and part buying. I only need to make 10 gold on a day to break even on that. So luckily I do not require that much gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all about choices but when you have decent job, which I know not everybody has, then 20 bucks here and there are a small thing compared to the hours of farming people propose. It's good that the game doesn't just cater to one group. > > > > > > > > > > It actually is the right comparison. The unofficial official exchange rate is $10 = 800 gems, ingame as well as on sites like Amazon.com from the official NcSoft vendor. I also was not framing it as the average player's experience. I referenced how much a _farmer_, a player who enjoys the effort required to maximize profits, could make within a time frame given by the OP. My apologizes for not specifying what I meant by _farmer._ As far as Magic Find goes, I referenced SW, which gives players a +200% boost, though I admit I was unconsciously counting other MF boosters as well; such as both item boosters, celebration boosters, and food. > > > > > > > > > > You are correct, time is a resource. I see it as a resource. However, I also see that I am already using that resource to play the game how I find it to be enjoyable, which also earns me rewards (Among them liquid gold). Therefore, I, personally, am earning gold for free. > > > > > > > > > > This debate ultimately comes down to personal circumstances and preferences. For me, I routinely buy gems to spend on gem shop items, because I like supporting the game, but never to trade in for gold. It is simply not worth it, when I have better IRL purchases I can make, and I have multiple ways to enjoy the game while earning gold. > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion may vary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's personal choice, but since this thread was made by a person who uses the 2000 gem cards, that's the comparison that's relevant for this thread. > > > > > > > > You've made your choices and decisions and that's cool. To me time is precious though and there are times that time is worth more than money. I don't think that I would regularly buy gold via gems as the OP did, though I also do not begrudge him his decisions, but I did buy gold because I haven't played this game much over the years and I wanted to catch up a bit, particularly by getting some crafting professions maxed which I've done now. So for me I'm good. For the rest I spend gems mostly on useful stuff like bank space, unbreakable gathering tools and shared inventory slots etc. Those things really improve the QoL for me in game. I never did gather much until I got the unbreakable tools for example. > > > > > > > > But I do understand your point more clearly and I thank you for specifying it a bit more. I didn't quite understand where you were coming from but now I do :) > > > > > > > > > > The OP also says he averaged 10g/hour and equates 2000 gems to 600g, when the average player may/does not. The average player may also not have secure or reliable access to those kinds of gem cards, while they do have such access to the BLTC and the $10 = 800 gems rate. > > > > > > Still, to be thorough, I'll use the $20 = 2,000 gems rate. > > > > > > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g. At our earlier farming rates we had 800g - 1,600g, from a 40 - 60 hour range as given by the OP. Assuming we're buying $20 gem cards, we would still have to spend **$40 - $80**, though we would have received 80g - 160g extra. > > > > Yeah he did say all that, though the 2000 gem cards for 20 bucks are really but his math is off. Taking your numbers I come at around 20 hours of farming, but at his rate of gold, which is I think a normal rate for non-farmers, you do get to 40 hours for 2000 gems. Now even with 20 hours, it amounts to spending 1 dollar or euro instead of having to far an hour. Or for a non-farmer it equates to paying 50 cents to avoid an hour of farming, which many may consider tedious and repetitive. > > > > So his math was clearly off but I do get his sentiment. What makes it different for me is that making 10 gold on a given day is generally enough to sustain my gold level. My main cost factor being the ascended armor I'm crafting a piece at a time. > > > > To me there is no wrong or right way to play in that sense but when you have money to spend and enjoy many elements of this game, but not the continuous farming, then buying it off can be an option. The thing is that each person has to decide for themselves what his or her time is worth. But farming feels like work to some of us and then being able to pay essentially other players at a rate of 50 cents to 1 buck an hour is a pretty good deal if you think about it. > > I will go ahead and admit that I am not the greatest at math, but how was mine off? 600 gold divided by 30g got me 20. That doesn't mean 20 hours, that means 20 of each session (3 hours each) that netted me 30g. 20 x 3 (hours) = 60 hours. It's where you said that 2000 gems get you 600 gold. It's actually closer to 400-450 gold in the exchange rate when you buy gold with gems in game. To get 600 gold you would have to get 300 gold for 1000 gems, but in fact it's 1100-1200 gems for 250 gold. So that's where the math was off. Edit: the last time I can see historically where you could get 600 gold for 2000 gems was about 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. I'm aware some people can make more, but it's still not much. Considering you can spend $20 on various sites and get 2,000 gems, which equate to around 600 gold, I see gold farming in this game as nothing more than pointless slave labor. Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? > > > > At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. > > the game lacks content and most people playing these farms are like mindless drones, they repeat the same boring "press 1" content over and over and over again. other people watch television the whole day and here the people waste the day with doing the metas all day for weeks and even months... > But it is not just that, fractals are also like that for many people. Just take a look at the fractal god title xD, you literally could have made a bachelors degree in the time it took you to get that title. A title you get for doing the same basic pve content again and again and again. I’m not sure if this is your first MMO or not but this is the nature of practically all MMO’s. If you’re not grinding for gold then you’re grinding for drops due to RNG. A lot of people here are confusing an MMO with a single player game. Certainly GW2 could be played as such but its entirety wasn’t built using the same structure as one. You’re not going to get BiS gear without much effort as you would playing Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekoneiric.6817 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 When I'm stressed farming relaxes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg.3629 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 A sidenote though: Recently I see more and more completely new players in the farm train, with like 1000 AP (yes, I know, not an indicator of how good a player is, but a score as low as that indicates you haven't seen a whole lot of the game) and asking absolute newbish questions in squad. You can do whatever you want in my opinion, but personally I think this is not a good thing. People whose main activity is farming that early into the game will be bad players, think of the Queensdale breeding ground of sucking, that will take away from their enjoyment and of cause that of their teammates in coordinated content. It has the danger of getting burned out on farming before really experiencing the game or being utterly put off by the meagre rewards of "normal" content. How do they even get there? Starting the game and reading up on best reward opportunities? Being brought there by guildies? Again, you do you, but I think it is a very bad und underwhelming way to experience GW2 when you just start out, that's where usually the wonder happens whenever you join a mmorpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The Queensdale train was being used for leveling which is different from the Istan farm which is used for making gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg.3629 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > The Queensdale train was being used for leveling which is different from the Istan farm which is used for making gold. not that it makes a lot of difference, but didn`t it start when champ bags were introduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Algreg.3629" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > The Queensdale train was being used for leveling which is different from the Istan farm which is used for making gold. > > not that it makes a lot of difference, but didn`t it start when champ bags were introduced? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do need to make the right comparison for the topic. We are talking about 2000 gem cards that you can buy online for around 20 bucks. That will buy you just over 400 gold in game. If you're a farmer and you can make 20g per hour, that's great, but that's still 20 hours to make 400 gold and the OP clearly is not a farmer. A lot of people are not in fact and don't have the max MF bonuses etc. So the fact that it's possible, doesn't make it the mainstream experience. Also, not many people have the stomach to farm that much. So much repetition gets boring really fast. It does for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So do not use that as the average experience is what I'm saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now the other mistake you clearly make is that you do not see time as a resource. But it is. It's a limited resource and things like birthdays and family events cost time as well. I cannot farm when I'm doing real life stuff. So when you have a job, family etc. you will not want to spend 20 hours farming for that 400 gold if you can buy it off with money which takes you 1-2 hours to make in our economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It really is about balancing time and money the best way for yourself. Even if I have 20+ hours a week to game (which I personally do), that also doesn't mean I want to spend it on repetitive farming. Why not? Cause I do not enjoy it. So buying some gold to jump start my account after a couple of years absence made perfect sense to me. Also I don't need thousands of gold because I am happy to just spend my time getting ascended gear which is part gathering and part buying. I only need to make 10 gold on a day to break even on that. So luckily I do not require that much gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all about choices but when you have decent job, which I know not everybody has, then 20 bucks here and there are a small thing compared to the hours of farming people propose. It's good that the game doesn't just cater to one group. > > > > > > > > > > > > It actually is the right comparison. The unofficial official exchange rate is $10 = 800 gems, ingame as well as on sites like Amazon.com from the official NcSoft vendor. I also was not framing it as the average player's experience. I referenced how much a _farmer_, a player who enjoys the effort required to maximize profits, could make within a time frame given by the OP. My apologizes for not specifying what I meant by _farmer._ As far as Magic Find goes, I referenced SW, which gives players a +200% boost, though I admit I was unconsciously counting other MF boosters as well; such as both item boosters, celebration boosters, and food. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct, time is a resource. I see it as a resource. However, I also see that I am already using that resource to play the game how I find it to be enjoyable, which also earns me rewards (Among them liquid gold). Therefore, I, personally, am earning gold for free. > > > > > > > > > > > > This debate ultimately comes down to personal circumstances and preferences. For me, I routinely buy gems to spend on gem shop items, because I like supporting the game, but never to trade in for gold. It is simply not worth it, when I have better IRL purchases I can make, and I have multiple ways to enjoy the game while earning gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion may vary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's personal choice, but since this thread was made by a person who uses the 2000 gem cards, that's the comparison that's relevant for this thread. > > > > > > > > > > You've made your choices and decisions and that's cool. To me time is precious though and there are times that time is worth more than money. I don't think that I would regularly buy gold via gems as the OP did, though I also do not begrudge him his decisions, but I did buy gold because I haven't played this game much over the years and I wanted to catch up a bit, particularly by getting some crafting professions maxed which I've done now. So for me I'm good. For the rest I spend gems mostly on useful stuff like bank space, unbreakable gathering tools and shared inventory slots etc. Those things really improve the QoL for me in game. I never did gather much until I got the unbreakable tools for example. > > > > > > > > > > But I do understand your point more clearly and I thank you for specifying it a bit more. I didn't quite understand where you were coming from but now I do :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > The OP also says he averaged 10g/hour and equates 2000 gems to 600g, when the average player may/does not. The average player may also not have secure or reliable access to those kinds of gem cards, while they do have such access to the BLTC and the $10 = 800 gems rate. > > > > > > > > Still, to be thorough, I'll use the $20 = 2,000 gems rate. > > > > > > > > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g. At our earlier farming rates we had 800g - 1,600g, from a 40 - 60 hour range as given by the OP. Assuming we're buying $20 gem cards, we would still have to spend **$40 - $80**, though we would have received 80g - 160g extra. > > > > > > Yeah he did say all that, though the 2000 gem cards for 20 bucks are really but his math is off. Taking your numbers I come at around 20 hours of farming, but at his rate of gold, which is I think a normal rate for non-farmers, you do get to 40 hours for 2000 gems. Now even with 20 hours, it amounts to spending 1 dollar or euro instead of having to far an hour. Or for a non-farmer it equates to paying 50 cents to avoid an hour of farming, which many may consider tedious and repetitive. > > > > > > So his math was clearly off but I do get his sentiment. What makes it different for me is that making 10 gold on a given day is generally enough to sustain my gold level. My main cost factor being the ascended armor I'm crafting a piece at a time. > > > > > > To me there is no wrong or right way to play in that sense but when you have money to spend and enjoy many elements of this game, but not the continuous farming, then buying it off can be an option. The thing is that each person has to decide for themselves what his or her time is worth. But farming feels like work to some of us and then being able to pay essentially other players at a rate of 50 cents to 1 buck an hour is a pretty good deal if you think about it. > > > > I will go ahead and admit that I am not the greatest at math, but how was mine off? 600 gold divided by 30g got me 20. That doesn't mean 20 hours, that means 20 of each session (3 hours each) that netted me 30g. 20 x 3 (hours) = 60 hours. > > It's where you said that 2000 gems get you 600 gold. It's actually closer to 400-450 gold in the exchange rate when you buy gold with gems in game. To get 600 gold you would have to get 300 gold for 1000 gems, but in fact it's 1100-1200 gems for 250 gold. So that's where the math was off. > > Edit: the last time I can see historically where you could get 600 gold for 2000 gems was about 2 years ago. Well I hate to break it to you but I just saw the other day that it was almost 600G per 2,000 gems. My math wasn't off, you just don't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Tekoneiric.6817" said: > When I'm stressed farming relaxes me. That's reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > Hello. I am disabled. Because my disease is undiagnosed, I receive no financial or medical aid. I haven't been able to hold a job for over 8 years. I'm essentially somebody else's house pet. I don't have money to spend on the game. In fact, the only reason why I grind out gold is because otherwise I'd go insane from boredom. Sorry to hear that. I know a little about having an undiagnosed condition. Hope you can get the financial and medical services you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diak Atoli.2085 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > It's where you said that 2000 gems get you 600 gold. It's actually closer to 400-450 gold in the exchange rate when you buy gold with gems in game. To get 600 gold you would have to get 300 gold for 1000 gems, but in fact it's 1100-1200 gems for 250 gold. So that's where the math was off. > > > > Edit: the last time I can see historically where you could get 600 gold for 2000 gems was about 2 years ago. > > Well I hate to break it to you but I just saw the other day that it was almost 600G per 2,000 gems. My math wasn't off, you just don't believe me. There are two different exchange rates: **Gold to Gems** and **Gems to Gold**. We, or at least I, am referencing the **Gems to Gold** rate, which is the amount of gold you receive when trading in gems. Currently, it is 2000 gems = 432g. **Gold to Gems**, or the amount of gold it costs to purchase gems, is currently 617g = 2000 gems. Might it be possible you were looking at the wrong rate on the BLTC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyse.8179 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > Choice is always an illusion. There is no scientific proof of free will or any idea how it even might work with the known laws of physics. > True, but the inverse is not true. Free Will may not be proven, but Determinism has been disproven. According to the Heisenberg principle, if you observe a particle, that observation itself affects the state of the particle, making it impossible to calculate the future state of the universe based on it's current state. To a quantum level of accuracy at any rate. I mean, I'm still reasonably certain that it will rain sometime this year ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do need to make the right comparison for the topic. We are talking about 2000 gem cards that you can buy online for around 20 bucks. That will buy you just over 400 gold in game. If you're a farmer and you can make 20g per hour, that's great, but that's still 20 hours to make 400 gold and the OP clearly is not a farmer. A lot of people are not in fact and don't have the max MF bonuses etc. So the fact that it's possible, doesn't make it the mainstream experience. Also, not many people have the stomach to farm that much. So much repetition gets boring really fast. It does for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So do not use that as the average experience is what I'm saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now the other mistake you clearly make is that you do not see time as a resource. But it is. It's a limited resource and things like birthdays and family events cost time as well. I cannot farm when I'm doing real life stuff. So when you have a job, family etc. you will not want to spend 20 hours farming for that 400 gold if you can buy it off with money which takes you 1-2 hours to make in our economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It really is about balancing time and money the best way for yourself. Even if I have 20+ hours a week to game (which I personally do), that also doesn't mean I want to spend it on repetitive farming. Why not? Cause I do not enjoy it. So buying some gold to jump start my account after a couple of years absence made perfect sense to me. Also I don't need thousands of gold because I am happy to just spend my time getting ascended gear which is part gathering and part buying. I only need to make 10 gold on a day to break even on that. So luckily I do not require that much gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all about choices but when you have decent job, which I know not everybody has, then 20 bucks here and there are a small thing compared to the hours of farming people propose. It's good that the game doesn't just cater to one group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It actually is the right comparison. The unofficial official exchange rate is $10 = 800 gems, ingame as well as on sites like Amazon.com from the official NcSoft vendor. I also was not framing it as the average player's experience. I referenced how much a _farmer_, a player who enjoys the effort required to maximize profits, could make within a time frame given by the OP. My apologizes for not specifying what I meant by _farmer._ As far as Magic Find goes, I referenced SW, which gives players a +200% boost, though I admit I was unconsciously counting other MF boosters as well; such as both item boosters, celebration boosters, and food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct, time is a resource. I see it as a resource. However, I also see that I am already using that resource to play the game how I find it to be enjoyable, which also earns me rewards (Among them liquid gold). Therefore, I, personally, am earning gold for free. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This debate ultimately comes down to personal circumstances and preferences. For me, I routinely buy gems to spend on gem shop items, because I like supporting the game, but never to trade in for gold. It is simply not worth it, when I have better IRL purchases I can make, and I have multiple ways to enjoy the game while earning gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion may vary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's personal choice, but since this thread was made by a person who uses the 2000 gem cards, that's the comparison that's relevant for this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > You've made your choices and decisions and that's cool. To me time is precious though and there are times that time is worth more than money. I don't think that I would regularly buy gold via gems as the OP did, though I also do not begrudge him his decisions, but I did buy gold because I haven't played this game much over the years and I wanted to catch up a bit, particularly by getting some crafting professions maxed which I've done now. So for me I'm good. For the rest I spend gems mostly on useful stuff like bank space, unbreakable gathering tools and shared inventory slots etc. Those things really improve the QoL for me in game. I never did gather much until I got the unbreakable tools for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do understand your point more clearly and I thank you for specifying it a bit more. I didn't quite understand where you were coming from but now I do :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The OP also says he averaged 10g/hour and equates 2000 gems to 600g, when the average player may/does not. The average player may also not have secure or reliable access to those kinds of gem cards, while they do have such access to the BLTC and the $10 = 800 gems rate. > > > > > > > > > > Still, to be thorough, I'll use the $20 = 2,000 gems rate. > > > > > > > > > > On the BLTC Exchange, 2,000 gems = ~440g. At our earlier farming rates we had 800g - 1,600g, from a 40 - 60 hour range as given by the OP. Assuming we're buying $20 gem cards, we would still have to spend **$40 - $80**, though we would have received 80g - 160g extra. > > > > > > > > Yeah he did say all that, though the 2000 gem cards for 20 bucks are really but his math is off. Taking your numbers I come at around 20 hours of farming, but at his rate of gold, which is I think a normal rate for non-farmers, you do get to 40 hours for 2000 gems. Now even with 20 hours, it amounts to spending 1 dollar or euro instead of having to far an hour. Or for a non-farmer it equates to paying 50 cents to avoid an hour of farming, which many may consider tedious and repetitive. > > > > > > > > So his math was clearly off but I do get his sentiment. What makes it different for me is that making 10 gold on a given day is generally enough to sustain my gold level. My main cost factor being the ascended armor I'm crafting a piece at a time. > > > > > > > > To me there is no wrong or right way to play in that sense but when you have money to spend and enjoy many elements of this game, but not the continuous farming, then buying it off can be an option. The thing is that each person has to decide for themselves what his or her time is worth. But farming feels like work to some of us and then being able to pay essentially other players at a rate of 50 cents to 1 buck an hour is a pretty good deal if you think about it. > > > > > > I will go ahead and admit that I am not the greatest at math, but how was mine off? 600 gold divided by 30g got me 20. That doesn't mean 20 hours, that means 20 of each session (3 hours each) that netted me 30g. 20 x 3 (hours) = 60 hours. > > > > It's where you said that 2000 gems get you 600 gold. It's actually closer to 400-450 gold in the exchange rate when you buy gold with gems in game. To get 600 gold you would have to get 300 gold for 1000 gems, but in fact it's 1100-1200 gems for 250 gold. So that's where the math was off. > > > > Edit: the last time I can see historically where you could get 600 gold for 2000 gems was about 2 years ago. > > Well I hate to break it to you but I just saw the other day that it was almost 600G per 2,000 gems. My math wasn't off, you just don't believe me. You're right, I don't believe you. I think it far more likely that you looked at the wrong exchange rate. Because the one that says per 2000 gems is where you buy gems with gold. The one that has 250 gold at the top is the one that is about buying gold with gems. So I'm pretty sure you looked at the wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaVer.4056 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > > @"Mea.5491" said: > > > > > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. > > > > > > > > > > You're doing something wrong. When I farm I only do a Pala - Akili - GH rotation once. The whole thing takes about 1 hour (waiting for Pala time included). I usually get around 20 Gold out of it (slightly depends on RNG) and I don't even open unid gear (I heard people who do get more Gold but I'm lazy to boost my MF). If I repeat my lazy rotation 3 times (3 hours total), I get around 60 Gold. The good thing is that I get an hour of downtime after GH because Pala starts every 2 hours so I can log off to work (I work at home). > > > > > > > > Keep in mind that MF is a big factor in the amount of gold you can acquire from farming. There's going to be significant difference in a 300MF player and a 100MF player running the same events. > > > > > > > > As for paying real life money for gold... I'm not paying ArenaNet a dime for reasons I cannot name because it would be a code of conduct violation, with the expect consequence that follows from that. Even if we were to ignore that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for his game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game. > > > > > > > > > > What additional money are you having to pay for access to the full game.. you have access to the full game when you bought it and the expacs.. the only thing you might have to stump up for aside from that is LS chapters if you didn't log in, in the appropriate timeframe when the chapter(s) went live. > > > Stuff from the gem store is nothing to do with access to game content. Nothing in the gemstore disadvantages you if you don't choose to buy it and absolutely does not block progress or gate you from content you have already paid for. > > > > I don't see your point. I said I won't pay money to get access to all the content and you subsequently say that I shouldn't have to pay money to get all the content granted I paid in time (which is a ridiculous notion in itself). > > Maybe re-read what you actually wrote in the first place.....namely the part that says "Even if we ignore all that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for this game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game"..... > > After purchasing the game and expacs you don't have to pay another dime for access to the full content.. nothing, nada, nowt. > Gem store purchases are a choice that is nether forced on you or a requirement to access game content. > Therefore your point is pretty much moot. So you completely missed the point of the thread which opened with the question "Why farm gold when you can buy gems?". If HoT is your initial purchase you don't get the living stories from before HoT, if you purchase HoT late you're missing some that come out after. If you don't pay for PoF you don't get the living stories that come out after PoF. So to get access to the full content of HoT I would have to pay a substantial amount of gems that I can either obtain by farming gold or by paying for gems. Now my answer again: I paid for HoT, GW2 core is supposedly free to play ( Kappa ) and thus to unlock the full content for HoT I won't pay any more money because I already paid for the game. And if gold farm ends up taking too long for me, I will lose interest in this game and play another game. Do you understand now? At the same time PoF ain't happening because everything I hear about it is bad; the issue I cannot name also ties into this. And the next expansion I won't buy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllLeonlll.1876 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I myself did convert gem to gold before and it was all a large amount to get something I really want that I just cannot wait, other than that I rarely farm istan but I when I do the gold i get is true to what other people said though roughly 20g+ an hour and I usually farm for like 2-3 hours, 5 if I’m feeling good so overall it always net me around 60-100g per farm session. So if you are getting 30g after 3 hours then you might want to read a guide in order to know what you are doing and maximize your profit. And instead of try and grind it all out as fast as you can to get what you want why not just take it easy and go slow? It has been working for me, This is the first mmo I have played where I don’t consider gold farming is a chore at all, I usually put on music and farm so I consider it a relaxing thing to do when I’m tired and mind you I have played those korean mmo where grinding for the money can feel like a second job and is extremely boring. And call me old fashion but I just really don’t like it when I have to spend real money to get an item that doesn’t even exist in the first place :p Nonetheless I still do it but I tried to limit it as much as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > > > @"Mea.5491" said: > > > > > > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're doing something wrong. When I farm I only do a Pala - Akili - GH rotation once. The whole thing takes about 1 hour (waiting for Pala time included). I usually get around 20 Gold out of it (slightly depends on RNG) and I don't even open unid gear (I heard people who do get more Gold but I'm lazy to boost my MF). If I repeat my lazy rotation 3 times (3 hours total), I get around 60 Gold. The good thing is that I get an hour of downtime after GH because Pala starts every 2 hours so I can log off to work (I work at home). > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind that MF is a big factor in the amount of gold you can acquire from farming. There's going to be significant difference in a 300MF player and a 100MF player running the same events. > > > > > > > > > > As for paying real life money for gold... I'm not paying ArenaNet a dime for reasons I cannot name because it would be a code of conduct violation, with the expect consequence that follows from that. Even if we were to ignore that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for his game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What additional money are you having to pay for access to the full game.. you have access to the full game when you bought it and the expacs.. the only thing you might have to stump up for aside from that is LS chapters if you didn't log in, in the appropriate timeframe when the chapter(s) went live. > > > > Stuff from the gem store is nothing to do with access to game content. Nothing in the gemstore disadvantages you if you don't choose to buy it and absolutely does not block progress or gate you from content you have already paid for. > > > > > > I don't see your point. I said I won't pay money to get access to all the content and you subsequently say that I shouldn't have to pay money to get all the content granted I paid in time (which is a ridiculous notion in itself). > > > > Maybe re-read what you actually wrote in the first place.....namely the part that says "Even if we ignore all that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for this game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game"..... > > > > After purchasing the game and expacs you don't have to pay another dime for access to the full content.. nothing, nada, nowt. > > Gem store purchases are a choice that is nether forced on you or a requirement to access game content. > > Therefore your point is pretty much moot. > > So you completely missed the point of the thread which opened with the question "Why farm gold when you can buy gems?". If HoT is your initial purchase you don't get the living stories from before HoT, if you purchase HoT late you're missing some that come out after. If you don't pay for PoF you don't get the living stories that come out after PoF. So to get access to the full content of HoT I would have to pay a substantial amount of gems that I can either obtain by farming gold or by paying for gems. Now my answer again: I paid for HoT, GW2 core is supposedly free to play ( Kappa ) and thus to unlock the full content for HoT I won't pay any more money because I already paid for the game. And if gold farm ends up taking too long for me, I will lose interest in this game and play another game. Do you understand now? > > At the same time PoF ain't happening because everything I hear about it is bad; the issue I cannot name also ties into this. And the next expansion I won't buy either. Yeah I had to buy a lot of the LS stuff and I also feel that some items in the gem store that I think belong to the game itself like inventory and bank space mostly. However, since there is no sub I accepted that I had to spend some money on that. It's a very F2P game type of thing but that's the sort of things I get with gems mostly. Cause really the bank and inventory space you get is really insufficient. You can manage but it's annoying. Even with expanded slots on my main I still run into the full bags situation. So my next purchase will likely be that little machine that you can salvage stuff endless for copper cause I'm tired of having to spend slots on each individual salvage kit of 25 uses. Though I seem to remember there is a 250 variant you can get somehow, but I'd rather just have one slot that I don't have to keep stocking up on and can use endlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenghisKhan.7842 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > > > > @"Mea.5491" said: > > > > > > > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're doing something wrong. When I farm I only do a Pala - Akili - GH rotation once. The whole thing takes about 1 hour (waiting for Pala time included). I usually get around 20 Gold out of it (slightly depends on RNG) and I don't even open unid gear (I heard people who do get more Gold but I'm lazy to boost my MF). If I repeat my lazy rotation 3 times (3 hours total), I get around 60 Gold. The good thing is that I get an hour of downtime after GH because Pala starts every 2 hours so I can log off to work (I work at home). > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind that MF is a big factor in the amount of gold you can acquire from farming. There's going to be significant difference in a 300MF player and a 100MF player running the same events. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for paying real life money for gold... I'm not paying ArenaNet a dime for reasons I cannot name because it would be a code of conduct violation, with the expect consequence that follows from that. Even if we were to ignore that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for his game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What additional money are you having to pay for access to the full game.. you have access to the full game when you bought it and the expacs.. the only thing you might have to stump up for aside from that is LS chapters if you didn't log in, in the appropriate timeframe when the chapter(s) went live. > > > > > Stuff from the gem store is nothing to do with access to game content. Nothing in the gemstore disadvantages you if you don't choose to buy it and absolutely does not block progress or gate you from content you have already paid for. > > > > > > > > I don't see your point. I said I won't pay money to get access to all the content and you subsequently say that I shouldn't have to pay money to get all the content granted I paid in time (which is a ridiculous notion in itself). > > > > > > Maybe re-read what you actually wrote in the first place.....namely the part that says "Even if we ignore all that, I would still not buy any gems since I've already paid for this game. I should not have to pay an additional fee to get access to the full game"..... > > > > > > After purchasing the game and expacs you don't have to pay another dime for access to the full content.. nothing, nada, nowt. > > > Gem store purchases are a choice that is nether forced on you or a requirement to access game content. > > > Therefore your point is pretty much moot. > > > > So you completely missed the point of the thread which opened with the question "Why farm gold when you can buy gems?". If HoT is your initial purchase you don't get the living stories from before HoT, if you purchase HoT late you're missing some that come out after. If you don't pay for PoF you don't get the living stories that come out after PoF. So to get access to the full content of HoT I would have to pay a substantial amount of gems that I can either obtain by farming gold or by paying for gems. Now my answer again: I paid for HoT, GW2 core is supposedly free to play ( Kappa ) and thus to unlock the full content for HoT I won't pay any more money because I already paid for the game. And if gold farm ends up taking too long for me, I will lose interest in this game and play another game. Do you understand now? > > > > At the same time PoF ain't happening because everything I hear about it is bad; the issue I cannot name also ties into this. And the next expansion I won't buy either. > > Yeah I had to buy a lot of the LS stuff and I also feel that some items in the gem store that I think belong to the game itself like inventory and bank space mostly. However, since there is no sub I accepted that I had to spend some money on that. It's a very F2P game type of thing but that's the sort of things I get with gems mostly. Cause really the bank and inventory space you get is really insufficient. You can manage but it's annoying. Even with expanded slots on my main I still run into the full bags situation. So my next purchase will likely be that little machine that you can salvage stuff endless for copper cause I'm tired of having to spend slots on each individual salvage kit of 25 uses. Though I seem to remember there is a 250 variant you can get somehow, but I'd rather just have one slot that I don't have to keep stocking up on and can use endlessly. The Copper-Fed Salvage-Matic in shared Inventory slot really increased my QoL, compared to the Mystic Salvage Kit (250 uses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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