How to improve Function Gyro

[InsaneQR.7412]

This thread is a proposal discussion thread how to improve the function gyro.

Nobody doubts the utility it has but many agree that this e-spec mechanic is technically barely existent.

So i made this thread after i evaluated my poll thread about the gyro to discuss and propose possible changes the gyro could receive.

 

My proposal:

Function Gyro replaces the F1 abbilities and emulates the old toolbelt heal skills.

All are ground targeted and pulse revives in the area. If the gyro is detonated it stomps foes in down state immediatly, but also goes on CD.

 

Elixir H: Send your Gyro to the targeted area. Provide heals and boons (protection, regen and vigor) upon impact.

Now also accounts as a elixir.

 

Water Turret:

Send out your gyro out to release a healing mist rejuvenating allies in the area. Blast finisher and heal.

Basically its current effect prolonged. Also instant cast as current WT f1.

 

Now also accounts as a turret (the gadget trait will produce a reflection shield and give the WT trait bonus arround the scrapper.

 

A. E. D :

Send your Gyro on the targeted area electrifying enemies and emergency charging allies.

Electricfield. Stuns enemies and gives allies the AED buff that heals them on a fatal blow. If allies in down state would be killed (except stomps) they are revived instead.

Now also accounts as a gadget and is thus effected from the corresponding trait.

 

Medkit:

Send your gyro out on the targeted area healing allies and distributing boons.

It will copy your boons on allies with a fixed duration on it.

Waterfield. Pulses healing.

Now also accounts as a medkit skill.

 

Medic Gyro:

Send out your function gyro to emulate your medic gyro, creating a protective area arround you. (this is the current gyro f1 in game, it fits and is useful IMO)

 

 

Personally i think this would give scrapper a good "i safe your butt" role without being to support heavy.

Its tankiness could further be improved via traits but we'll see.

This mechanic would interact fairly well with the core class and it would provide several different playstyles.

Like boonflip tank, speed rezzer /wipe preventer, field blaster or just boon support.

 

Any feedback would be great.

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

I think you need to diversify a bit what the gyro do because, as an example, I tend to use the medikit for it's tool belt skill which work as a quick healing skill. With what you suggest, if I take the scrapper traitline I find myself out of relatively quick heal on F1 and "forced" into a ground targeted (cluncky to use) one, which will greatly impact the way I like to play and the overall survivability of most of the players that chose to use scrapper.

 

The idea to use the gyro as the F1 skill is good, but the skills suggested don't cover all playstyle, they lack diversity in the way they work.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> I think you need to diversify a bit what the gyro do because, as an example, I tend to use the medikit for it's tool belt skill which work as a quick healing skill. With what you suggest, if I take the scrapper traitline I find myself out of relatively quick heal on F1 and "forced" into a ground targeted (cluncky to use) one, which will greatly impact the way I like to play and the overall survivability of most of the players that chose to use scrapper.

>

> The idea to use the gyro as the F1 skill is good, but the skills suggested don't cover all playstyle, they lack diversity in the way they work.

 

Thank you for your imput.

Id tried to keep its old functionality in check thats why i homogonized most of it.

Maybe changing some of them into PbAoEs or a more selfish HoT would do the trick.

Personally i think the AED one and the Waterturret one are rather goid IMO they change a bit of the old F2 but keep sime of the functionality in check.

The Medic Gyro could stay nore or less the same as now actually when i think about ut and the Elixir one would be a good PbAoE one. For the medkit i though boonshare would give scrapper better usability in groups and vetter support with medkit. I try to think about a new one and revisted the others. Maybe a suggestion input could help too.

[Dadnir.5038]

Just removing the need to send it out for some of the skills can be good. Making things simple is alawys welcome in a fast paced game. Something like:

- F1 associated to the water turret: "Send an emergency command to your function gyro to order it to release a healing mist." the effect of the mechanism lengthening the duration of the water field and associating a ticking notion that both revive and apply regeneration to allies around you. Let's say 4s and ticking every seconds.

- F1 associated to the medkit: "order your function gyro to use a version of the med blaster on you for 5 seconds healing and reviving you and up to 2 allies close to you."

 

I think your elixir skill and aed skills are proper and I wouldn't change how the medic gyro F1 currently work.

[Lunateric.3708]

Function gyro should have had a visible, dedicated key from the start. Half the issue with it is you don't get to see its cooldown or if it's doing what you're asking it to do until it's airborne, I'd like it to have a key regardless of the way they implement a possible rework.

 

I'd personally make it replace the elite toolbelt instead though, just like forge. Feel like heal skill toolbelts are more important than elite's.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> Function gyro should have had a visible, dedicated key from the start. Half the issue with it is you don't get to see its cooldown or if it's doing what you're asking it to do until it's airborne, I'd like it to have a key regardless of the way they implement a possible rework.

>

> I'd personally make it replace the elite toolbelt instead though, just like forge. Feel like heal skill toolbelts are more important than elite's.

 

I think augmentation of heal skills would be better and it would fit the tanky role of scrapper better IMO.

Holo trades a dmg boosting mode for strong toolbelt skills.

As a scrapper i wouldnt want to miss the orbital strike or the emergency drop just for a small revive skill.

They are just too good and the stealth gyro has a fantastic toolbelt for competitive modes that shouldn't be traded either.

 

And it would distinct it better from Holo.

 

Sure you could augment the elites instead of the heals but the heals just fit better on the function gyro.

 

Another option would be to make a "Function Slot" on the utility bar but this would need a huge amount of work and every skill would need a gyro version which seems rather unlikely.

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Just removing the need to send it out for some of the skills can be good. Making things simple is alawys welcome in a fast paced game. Something like:

> - F1 associated to the water turret: "Send an emergency command to your function gyro to order it to release a healing mist." the effect of the mechanism lengthening the duration of the water field and associating a ticking notion that both revive and apply regeneration to allies around you. Let's say 4s and ticking every seconds.

> - F1 associated to the medkit: "order your function gyro to use a version of the med blaster on you for 5 seconds healing and reviving you and up to 2 allies close to you."

>

> I think your elixir skill and aed skills are proper and I wouldn't change how the medic gyro F1 currently work.

 

Thx again for the feedback, i think your ideas look great. The turret gyro even works similar to current heal turret (base skill) and it would be a straight up improvement on the old one.

Comvination of PbAoE and HoT are aldo very fitting.

[Noha.3749]

Cant they just make Function Gyro able to "attack target" ?

F (requires targeted enemy):

 

5-8Sec CD:

Send Function Gyro to shock/taze target enemy.

Shock/Taze inflicts 2 Seconds Daze, 2 second Slow and deals 200 damage.

 

(Function Gyro have increased critchance and is affected by critrelated talents, however critting does not increase the damage of the ability)

(Function Gyro benefits from traits that affect explosions)

 

With this Scrappers will bring more "cc" to the battle/duels/brawls. Can inflict bleeding burning and cripple with traits/runes etc.

It wont benefit powercreep as much except getting a bit more cc/slow to chase and control the enemy, while remaining its "electric" feel.

 

This would allow a Scrapper brawler to focus more on control by denying a few heals here and there and having an easier time catching slipperly enemies.

It would also allow CondiScrappers to add in just a little bit extra conditions and breakbar damage.

 

Thats my opinion anyway :)

 

 

[Peutrifectus.4830]

Honestly noha, that would make me happy. I play a condi hybrid scrapper despite its faults and play my damned hardest to its strengths. Those suggestions would go down well with me :)

[Zex Anthon.8673]

I've suggested this before, but I think a scrapper "kit" like a remote control would be a good change. Make it replace the F5 toolbelt skill. This provides 5 skills to associate with the function gyro. More skills more functions. The benefit from gaining 5 skills would outweigh the loss of elite toolbelt skills. These skills wouldnt be constrained by the function of a healing toolbelt skill. Need more condition damage, cc, support, or sustain? No problem. A kit can deliver that type of change. Additionally, this would follow the overall theme set by core engi and holosmith.

[Peutrifectus.4830]

I dunno.... I love the area reveal for pvp/wvw. So long as that is one of the skills, then I'm on board XD

[Zex Anthon.8673]

You could make that one of the skills, but i think it might be better suited as a trait. Like reveal in 1200 radius when you swap to your controller. Then give it an internal cooldown.

[Chaith.8256]

I'll repost my Function Gyro suggestion from my main suggestion thread.

 

My vision for the change is to make it so Solo Scrappers benefit more, and also allow Scrappers to become more specialized at single target support.

 

Function Gyro: You gain access to the Function Gyro which can be used to finish a foe, or **bolster**, revive an ally at range.

 

- "Function Gyro Charged" buff now reduces damage taken by all sources by 10% (When the Gyro is hovering on your shoulder.)

- Using Function Gyro on a targeted ally will order your gyro to their position (shoulder) instead, and apply "Overdrive"

- Overdrive, periodically gain quickness, superspeed, and barrier. Duration: 2s per pulse, 3 pulses, 2000 barrier per pulse.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> I'll repost my Function Gyro suggestion from my main suggestion thread.

>

> My vision for the change is to make it so Solo Scrappers benefit more, and also allow Scrappers to become more specialized at single target support.

>

> Function Gyro: You gain access to the Function Gyro which can be used to finish a foe, or **bolster**, revive an ally at range.

>

> - "Function Gyro Charged" buff now reduces damage taken by all sources by 10% (When the Gyro is hovering on your shoulder.)

> - Using Function Gyro on a targeted ally will order your gyro to their position (shoulder) instead, and apply "Overdrive"

> - Overdrive, periodically gain quickness, superspeed, and barrier. Duration: 2s per pulse, 3 pulses, 2000 barrier per pulse.

 

I like the idea but how would this work without being a target to target interaction, which anet is patently against employing? maybe it could be an aoe buff that either follows you around or is stationary. might seem like a scourge clone cuz of the barrier but the quickness and superspeed is definitely all engi.

[Shroud.2307]

How about making it more like Daredevil's "Finishing Blow"? You can still press [ F ] at range from a downed target but instead of no cast time activation, you raise your hammer in the air similar to the Detection Pulse animation, and a rapid stomp/revive takes place at the targets location. Let's say the hammer animation is 1/2 second (same as Detection Pulse) and the stomp/revive that follows also takes 1/2 second. This would allow enough counterplay to interrupt either the Scrapper or the Gyro.

 

To increase the possibility that the Gyro completes it's task, how about also making it immune to all forms of damage. Instead, it is only destroyed when it is interrupted with some form of CC, at which point it is instantaneously destroyed. This would allow it to be used in team fights with less risk of it being destroyed from collateral damage but would still have potential to fail. Faster stomps/revives but also faster death since it only needs to be interrupted once.

 

And to make it more appealing in PvE, how about reducing the cooldown to 10 seconds and granting it the ability to revive up to 3 players _simultaneously_ as long as they are within a radius of maybe 180 or 240 (note that you still only need to target _one_ player but if others are close enough, they will be revived as well). 240 in WvW or PvP would be pretty OP though so I think 180 would be better. I'd be fine with it if this were a PvE only thing even.

 

[Kiroshima.8497]

Function gyro needs to be a real mechanic with scrapper abilities derived around it. As it is now, it's literally a single skill that has low-no impact in pve and difficult to use properly in PvP and WvW.

 

I put my desired rework in this thread:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/657604/#Comment_657604

 

If you don't want to check that link, it's basically just: Scrapper gains a Metal bar (think warrior adrenaline but engi style). Scavenge metal by doing damage, ranged attacks drop metal on the ground to pick up, melee attacks grant you metal directly (flamethrower for peak metal =P). Spend metal to build function gyros, which get paced on enemies and allies (closest to center of ground target). Gyro Utility skills replicate on targets with a function gyro on them. Function gyros automatically attempt a rez or stomp if attached and the target goes down. Targets cannot be affected by more than one gyro, no matter how many overlapping aoes there are.

 

Example trait change:

Rapid Regen: All allies with F Gyro on them heal while you have Superspeed.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > I'll repost my Function Gyro suggestion from my main suggestion thread.

> >

> > My vision for the change is to make it so Solo Scrappers benefit more, and also allow Scrappers to become more specialized at single target support.

> >

> > Function Gyro: You gain access to the Function Gyro which can be used to finish a foe, or **bolster**, revive an ally at range.

> >

> > - "Function Gyro Charged" buff now reduces damage taken by all sources by 10% (When the Gyro is hovering on your shoulder.)

> > - Using Function Gyro on a targeted ally will order your gyro to their position (shoulder) instead, and apply "Overdrive"

> > - Overdrive, periodically gain quickness, superspeed, and barrier. Duration: 2s per pulse, 3 pulses, 2000 barrier per pulse.

>

> I like the idea but how would this work without being a target to target interaction, which anet is patently against employing? maybe it could be an aoe buff that either follows you around or is stationary. might seem like a scourge clone cuz of the barrier but the quickness and superspeed is definitely all engi.

 

Function Gyro support now IS a target to target interaction, it's literally impossible to F-gyro res without targeting first.. how is ArenaNet patently against that? Scrapper is an exception at least

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Kiroshima.8497" said:

> Function gyro needs to be a real mechanic with scrapper abilities derived around it. As it is now, it's literally a single skill that has low-no impact in pve and difficult to use properly in PvP and WvW.

>

> I put my desired rework in this thread:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/657604/#Comment_657604

>

> If you don't want to check that link, it's basically just: Scrapper gains a Metal bar (think warrior adrenaline but engi style). Scavenge metal by doing damage, ranged attacks drop metal on the ground to pick up, melee attacks grant you metal directly (flamethrower for peak metal =P). Spend metal to build function gyros, which get paced on enemies and allies (closest to center of ground target). Gyro Utility skills replicate on targets with a function gyro on them. Function gyros automatically attempt a rez or stomp if attached and the target goes down. Targets cannot be affected by more than one gyro, no matter how many overlapping aoes there are.

>

> Example trait change:

> Rapid Regen: All allies with F Gyro on them heal while you have Superspeed.

 

Sounds really cool IMO, the targeting is still whack thpugh. How would you tackle that problem?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > I'll repost my Function Gyro suggestion from my main suggestion thread.

> > >

> > > My vision for the change is to make it so Solo Scrappers benefit more, and also allow Scrappers to become more specialized at single target support.

> > >

> > > Function Gyro: You gain access to the Function Gyro which can be used to finish a foe, or **bolster**, revive an ally at range.

> > >

> > > - "Function Gyro Charged" buff now reduces damage taken by all sources by 10% (When the Gyro is hovering on your shoulder.)

> > > - Using Function Gyro on a targeted ally will order your gyro to their position (shoulder) instead, and apply "Overdrive"

> > > - Overdrive, periodically gain quickness, superspeed, and barrier. Duration: 2s per pulse, 3 pulses, 2000 barrier per pulse.

> >

> > I like the idea but how would this work without being a target to target interaction, which anet is patently against employing? maybe it could be an aoe buff that either follows you around or is stationary. might seem like a scourge clone cuz of the barrier but the quickness and superspeed is definitely all engi.

>

> Function Gyro support now IS a target to target interaction, it's literally impossible to F-gyro res without targeting first.. how is ArenaNet patently against that? Scrapper is an exception at least

>

>

 

well yeah that's true lol, but they haven't done any direct support skills besides from downed stuff.

[Kiroshima.8497]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Kiroshima.8497" said:

> > Function gyro needs to be a real mechanic with scrapper abilities derived around it. As it is now, it's literally a single skill that has low-no impact in pve and difficult to use properly in PvP and WvW.

> >

> > I put my desired rework in this thread:

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/657604/#Comment_657604

> >

> > If you don't want to check that link, it's basically just: Scrapper gains a Metal bar (think warrior adrenaline but engi style). Scavenge metal by doing damage, ranged attacks drop metal on the ground to pick up, melee attacks grant you metal directly (flamethrower for peak metal =P). Spend metal to build function gyros, which get paced on enemies and allies (closest to center of ground target). Gyro Utility skills replicate on targets with a function gyro on them. Function gyros automatically attempt a rez or stomp if attached and the target goes down. Targets cannot be affected by more than one gyro, no matter how many overlapping aoes there are.

> >

> > Example trait change:

> > Rapid Regen: All allies with F Gyro on them heal while you have Superspeed.

>

> Sounds really cool IMO, the targeting is still whack thpugh. How would you tackle that problem?

 

Two options. Ground targeted AoE, or PBAoE.

Each bar spent lets you hit up to 1 enemy and 1 ally, so with a max of 3 bars spent (like warrior adrenaline), you'd place 3 function gyros on enemies and 3 on allies. Follow normal aoe rules.

 

Obviously there's always room for adjustments.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Kiroshima.8497" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Kiroshima.8497" said:

> > > Function gyro needs to be a real mechanic with scrapper abilities derived around it. As it is now, it's literally a single skill that has low-no impact in pve and difficult to use properly in PvP and WvW.

> > >

> > > I put my desired rework in this thread:

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/657604/#Comment_657604

> > >

> > > If you don't want to check that link, it's basically just: Scrapper gains a Metal bar (think warrior adrenaline but engi style). Scavenge metal by doing damage, ranged attacks drop metal on the ground to pick up, melee attacks grant you metal directly (flamethrower for peak metal =P). Spend metal to build function gyros, which get paced on enemies and allies (closest to center of ground target). Gyro Utility skills replicate on targets with a function gyro on them. Function gyros automatically attempt a rez or stomp if attached and the target goes down. Targets cannot be affected by more than one gyro, no matter how many overlapping aoes there are.

> > >

> > > Example trait change:

> > > Rapid Regen: All allies with F Gyro on them heal while you have Superspeed.

> >

> > Sounds really cool IMO, the targeting is still whack thpugh. How would you tackle that problem?

>

> Two options. Ground targeted AoE, or PBAoE.

> Each bar spent lets you hit up to 1 enemy and 1 ally, so with a max of 3 bars spent (like warrior adrenaline), you'd place 3 function gyros on enemies and 3 on allies. Follow normal aoe rules.

>

> Obviously there's always room for adjustments.

 

How would you activate it though. I think pressing F is quiet misplaced if it is AoE.

What utility or toolbelt would you sacrifice for it?

I would actually like if it would replace a certain utility toolbelt slot and you can choose which toolbelt skill you sacrifice fir the gyro.

[Kiroshima.8497]

Probably F5, then just the stealth gyro active to do detection pulse every so often (smaller range though since it will replicate on your function gyros).

[Tehologist.5841]

The gyro should teleport to target when stomping or rezzing, also need a way to see its cool down. Would be nice if it had a passive effect when it wasn't deployed, similar to how signets work. Possibly a trait with a passive to break stun and apply barrier?

[golembane.4891]

Sorry for the bit of necro-post, but I've been thinking about the Gyro thing a lot lately since I always end up coming back to my scrapper lately. There is always a couple obvious problems with the current system.

 

Having to target a player/enemy to perform revival/stomp can be difficult or impossible in a lot of situations.

Not being able to reviving a fully downed player severely limits the current gyro's functionality.

It is supposed to be a function gyro, but the functions it performs are very limited.

 

I would like to see the gyro automatically be scanning for targets to ress within a certain range (and LOS). This way while you fight, you can get some prompt for Gyro revival or stomp. Still allows double revivals, revival and stomp,

I mention ress a lot, the F gyro needs to be able to resurrect the dead. This dovetails into my next point as well.

The function gyro should perform all the Scrapper's functions. It would be a great class gimmick, that keeps pushing the double X ability. Let the scrapper be fighting one mob and send the F gyro out to gather a node somewhere, open a chest, or other minor tasks of that nature. Granted, everything the F gyro would impact should be within LOS of the Scrapper himself in order to order the gyro to do whatever it needs to do.

 

One other change I feel that would make the Scrapper feel a bit more streamlined and tied to their F gyro, is instead of having Sneak, Bulwark, and all our other gyros be separate skills, makes them instead enhancements of our F gyro. Let's say F5 is the Gyro trigger, we can associate one of our gyros to that block, when we activate that ability our F gyro functions as that associated gyro and it's toolbelt ability for it's time frame it is active while still keeping its F gyro core functions. Bulwark F Gyro for example would give you the Watchful Eye and Defense Field buffs once you press F5 exactly how they function now separately. Any ability the gyro is currently performing would move with the gyro for any tasks the Scrapper sends it out on, so you can activate your stealth gyro and revive a downed player. This way our choice in gyro's is much more important to consider for a situation while also allowing Scrappers to free up skill slots to focus on Turret scrapper, bomber scrapper, alchemist scrapper, ect. In terms of graphical effect, if you choose the stealth gyro, for example, would change your F gyro to the silver stealth gyro, with the little orange gyro being the default with no selection made.

 

Rough ideas, but just some thoughts that crossed my mind while out and about. I've been up for nearly 20 hours, so I hope my rambling made a bit of sense.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

> @"golembane.4891" said:

>

> One other change I feel that would make the Scrapper feel a bit more streamlined and tied to their F gyro, is instead of having Sneak, Bulwark, and all our other gyros be separate skills, makes them instead enhancements of our F gyro.

 

I dont think removing gyros and giving f gyro the skills is such a good idea. You basically just end up with what we already have, but limited to 1 gyro. What would you replace gryos with? It could work if your replacement utilities interacted with f gyro somehow.

 

I think the double cast from f gyro is a cool idea and an interesting gimmick. However, it would end up scaling back all of scrappers skills for balance purposes.

 

I think it would be easier to replace F5 with a kit similar to holosmith. Then you would have 5 skills to add what ever you think scrapper needs: finishers, support, mobility, ranged attacks, combo fields, etc. Then slap a second mechanic on it like heat except more geared towards scrapper. Someone suggested a scrap mechanic. For example, whenever you use a turret, gyro, or gadget, you fill your scrap bar. Depending how much scrap you have the better the effects inside the scrapper kit. Now you can still run turrets and gadgets while having them feel relevent to the mechanic.

 

For graphical effects your f gyro will perform the skills inside the kit and will take on different shapes and sizes depending on the skill or how much scrap is used. Im picturing a skill where your f gyro runs in and performs a melee attack. At max scrap your f gyro becomes a giant golem that barrels in and falcon punches your target.