How to improve Function Gyro

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> > @"golembane.4891" said:

> >

> > One other change I feel that would make the Scrapper feel a bit more streamlined and tied to their F gyro, is instead of having Sneak, Bulwark, and all our other gyros be separate skills, makes them instead enhancements of our F gyro.

>

> I dont think removing gyros and giving f gyro the skills is such a good idea. You basically just end up with what we already have, but limited to 1 gyro. What would you replace gryos with? It could work if your replacement utilities interacted with f gyro somehow.

>

> I think the double cast from f gyro is a cool idea and an interesting gimmick. However, it would end up scaling back all of scrappers skills for balance purposes.

>

> I think it would be easier to replace F5 with a kit similar to holosmith. Then you would have 5 skills to add what ever you think scrapper needs: finishers, support, mobility, ranged attacks, combo fields, etc. Then slap a second mechanic on it like heat except more geared towards scrapper. Someone suggested a scrap mechanic. For example, whenever you use a turret, gyro, or gadget, you fill your scrap bar. Depending how much scrap you have the better the effects inside the scrapper kit. Now you can still run turrets and gadgets while having them feel relevent to the mechanic.

>

> For graphical effects your f gyro will perform the skills inside the kit and will take on different shapes and sizes depending on the skill or how much scrap is used. Im picturing a skill where your f gyro runs in and performs a melee attack. At max scrap your f gyro becomes a giant golem that barrels in and falcon punches your target.

>

>

 

Personally i think just copying Holo is lazy design.

Changing another f skill like the f1 for more supportish skills or going wild and enhance a certain utility skill slot. So you can slot in a skill and gain a enhanced toolbelt out if it and maybe even a gyro per skill or per skill type.

 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

Giving scrapper an f5 kit and its own secondary mechanic does not make it a holosmith clone. A kit would provide 5 **entirely new** skills that can interact with any number of clever mechanics (be it scrap or something else). It would give scrapper the ability to swap to a ranged weapon without taking up a utility slot.

 

Lazy design would be if they rehashed existing skills like the f1 abilities except they are toss elixir r and use ground targeting.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

At bare minimum, function gyro needs to be able to resurrect NPCs and, I don't know, harvest nodes maybe? It needs to do _something_ worthwhile in PVE, because it basically might as well not exist there.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

I don't think that would even pass as the bare minimum. Rezzing NPCs and harvesting nodes would have hardly any impact on the actual gameplay. Rezzing allies already does _something_ worthwhile in PVE, it is useful in raids. However, as a mechanic, it doesn't fly when nearly any other class has a revival gimmick built into a trait or utility skill. Engineer even already has toss elixir r which makes f gyro redundant. The bare minimum would be a single skill bound to a visible slot dedicated to the class mechanic.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

one feature to greatly improve the function gyro would be two new shortcuts:

1. target nearest downed ally

2. target nearest downed enemy.

 

Most of the time I can't use the gyro in WvW because of the 10 People standing in my click-LoS.

[Slapinator.4196]

Maybe if you pressed the swap weapons key, you could open a Function Gyro "Menu" and from there you could select, which type of Function Gyro you wanted to have. For example Number 1 would be Rez/Stomp Gyro, Number 2 would be a Gyro that somehow enhanced the offensive capabilities of you and your party, Number 2 enhance the defensive capabilities etc, so that they don't have to change in any way the current Tool Belt skills.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Slapinator.4196" said:

> Maybe if you pressed the swap weapons key, you could open a Function Gyro "Menu" and from there you could select, which type of Function Gyro you wanted to have. For example Number 1 would be Rez/Stomp Gyro, Number 2 would be a Gyro that somehow enhanced the offensive capabilities of you and your party, Number 2 enhance the defensive capabilities etc, so that they don't have to change in any way the current Tool Belt skills.

 

I like that approach. Its something new to the discussion pannel and not a copy of other elite spec mechanics.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

> @"Slapinator.4196" said:

> Maybe if you pressed the swap weapons key, you could open a Function Gyro "Menu" and from there you could select, which type of Function Gyro you wanted to have. For example Number 1 would be Rez/Stomp Gyro, Number 2 would be a Gyro that somehow enhanced the offensive capabilities of you and your party, Number 2 enhance the defensive capabilities etc, so that they don't have to change in any way the current Tool Belt skills.

 

Not a bad idea. I like the concept of being able to toggle the gyro to different functionalities. They could work like Herald facets and gain flip over skills. Instead of using energy you would only be able to have one function active. Unfortunately, I don't think its feasible to add a completely new gyro "menu" UI just for a specialization rework unless the devs were already planning on adding some additional interface for other new elite specializations. Instead, I think you could get the same functionality of a gyro "menu" through a kit. You could add this kit to the weapon swap key so that, as you said, they don't have to change the tool belt skills. However, I personally would prefer they use the f5 slot to keep some consistency.

 

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> I like that approach. Its something new to the discussion pannel and not a copy of other elite spec mechanics.

 

As I stated before, giving scrapper a kit would not make it a holosmith clone. A kit is the simplest way to get virtually any mechanic you want. You get 5 skills unbound by "weapon type" or "toolbelt type" all in a form that has already been implemented and fits the profession theme. Saying "giving scrapper a kit would just be a copy of holosmith" is worse than saying "reaper is a copy of warriors because they get to use great sword". Its like saying "reaper is a copy of warrior because they have weaponswap". The idea that holosmith somehow has ownership over the concept of specialization kits because they did it first is absolutely absurd. And even if you consider it copying design, why is it so bad to take aspects from other elite specializations and integrate them into new ones? Especially if that elite specialization is part of the same class. Are you saying we shouldn't see any more variations of death shroud just because reaper already did it?

[Shroud.2307]

I legitimately hate the idea of replacing the any of the F skills with Function Gyro abilities and it's frustrating to see how many people suggest it. You lose way too many powerful skills by doing this and you can see the kind of limitations it creates by looking at Holosmith.

 

I absolutely agree that Function Gyro could use some kind of rework and have even made my own thread(s) in the past with suggestions on how to do so. But replacing F skills doesn't feel like the right way to me unless they're going to make those skills significantly better than everything they replacing. In which case again, it creates limitations because why take anything else?

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> I legitimately hate the idea of replacing the any of the F skills with Function Gyro abilities and it's frustrating to see how many people suggest it. You lose way too many powerful skills by doing this and you can see the kind of limitations it creates by looking at Holosmith.

>

> I absolutely agree that Function Gyro could use some kind of rework and have even made my own thread(s) in the past with suggestions on how to do so. But replacing F skills doesn't feel like the right way to me unless they're going to make those skills significantly better than everything they replacing. In which case again, it creates limitations because why take anything else?

 

Its quite restricting fro engineer though just because it has already 5 F skills.

But i agree that killing F skills for scrapper is not optimal.

It already could use all skills the engineer could except if the new weapon and the function gyro.

To give scrapper somewhat of a "weaponswap" to give it a new gyro set is actually quiet nice solution IMO. Its not much but it would give it utility and additional skillset.

[Dace.8173]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> I legitimately hate the idea of replacing the any of the F skills with Function Gyro abilities and it's frustrating to see how many people suggest it. You lose way too many powerful skills by doing this and you can see the kind of limitations it creates by looking at Holosmith.

>

> I absolutely agree that Function Gyro could use some kind of rework and have even made my own thread(s) in the past with suggestions on how to do so. But replacing F skills doesn't feel like the right way to me unless they're going to make those skills significantly better than everything they replacing. In which case again, it creates limitations because why take anything else?

 

Yeah, I agree. Unless those new F skills were simply amazing and blew people away there is no way that it would be worthwhile to get rid of any of them. Like the idea that we should lose our medical toolbelt skill ...... like wtf?

[Dediggefedde.4961]

Why not use the space above the right skill bar for F6-F10? ^^

ADD ALL THE KEYS!!!

[borgs.6103]

Add an F5 for the Function Gyro. Put a choice of passive skills in it that can only be switched when out of combat, like a pulsating boon, condi clear, or whatever. Basically like a signet. Retain the active effect of stomping/reviving with the passive going on cooldown if used.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"borgs.6103" said:

> Add an F5 for the Function Gyro. Put a choice of passive skills in it that can only be switched when out of combat, like a pulsating boon, condi clear, or whatever. Basically like a signet. Retain the active effect of stomping/reviving with the passive going on cooldown if used.

 

I thought of a similar function but with a regular tool belt (f2-4). So it gains a special passive depending on utility type and its active usage it has already.

Would be better than now, but not that optimal so i would still go with the support approach.

[Xaylin.1860]

It would be boring as hell but a welcoming and easy to implement benefit would be Function Gyro applying +x Barrier to yourself on Toolbelt use when not on CD.

 

While I don't particularly like the F-Function - for example, it would make more sense for it to be an area effect when looking at other Gyros - it would probably need a bigger rework to actually be a justifiable elite class mechanic.