Feedback: Devouring Darkness (WvW)

[Fireline.6093]

Easy fix. Don't bring boons and spread out.

[Lexan.5930]

yes its a very powerful move, that you have to chose a trait for. Your giving up 2 other possible grand-masters for passive attributes and a new skill. This falls in line with grand master traits being game changing.

 

As for it hitting multiple targets i would like to point your attention to necro staff marks which hit 5 people even if 1 target blocks/evades the attack. The new guard stuff auto attack which hits multiple targets regardless of 1 target doge/evading a hit. Rev hammer Phase shift also hits multiple targets at 1200 range and applys chill while not caring if 1 person evades/blocks the attack. Same thing with ranger longbow, warrior longbow and other weapon skills that do that naturally and do not need a trait. Also rev can corrupt boons from 900 range.

[KrHome.1920]

If (like someone said, but I did not test it by myself) this skill ignores LOS and hits the target's surounding players even if they dodge, that's overpowered and needs to be fixed.

 

I don't see a problem with the rest of the skill mechanic.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> If (like someone said, but I did not test it by myself) this skill ignores LOS and hits the target's surounding players even if they dodge, that's overpowered and needs to be fixed.

>

> I don't see a problem with the rest of the skill mechanic.

 

Surrounding players that dodge don't get hit. If the primary target dodges, that does not protect other targets in the area.

[Pekoz.3862]

So it works like fireball?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

>

> If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

 

No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

[archmagus.7249]

This could be pretty broken with feed from corruption. AOE lots of boons from your target and get lots of boons.

[Fireline.6093]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> This could be pretty broken with feed from corruption. AOE lots of boons from your target and get lots of boons.

 

The enemy can corrupt your boons just as fast as you corrupt theirs. If you do get OP boons from it then expect OP corruptions seconds later as well.

[Artaz.3819]

> @"Pekoz.3862" said:

> So it works like fireball?

 

Fireball requires line of sight (and has a fairly obvious animation). Dragon's Tooth is more comparable.

 

ANet is so odd. Nerf boon corrupt traits. Nerf scepter auto attack. Then add it all back to a GM trait/skill that is arguably better in the two game modes (WvW and sPvP) for more alpha boon corrupt on a skill that was basically used on cooldown (lifeforce generation). Right hand meet left hand facepalm. Stop balancing the game based on your current expansion build class issues - thanks

[ImperialWL.7138]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> >

> > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

>

> No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

 

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> >

> > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

>

> No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

 

So you admit that warrior bubbles alone do nothing, precisely my point.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Avoid.2807" said:

> The [latest balance update](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53000/game-update-notes-august-28-2018 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53000/game-update-notes-august-28-2018") introduced the following change:

> * Lingering Curse: The condition damage gained from this trait has been increased from 150 to 200. **This trait also changes Feast of Corruption into a new, area-affecting version called Devouring Darkness**.

>

> [This](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness#WvW") new scepter skill, granted by equipping the [Lingering Curse](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse") trait, is extremely strong in WvW:

> * Boons Converted to Conditions: **3**

> * 10 second recharge time

> * 5 Targets

> * Ranged (900) AoE around the target (360)

>

> This skill (thus) suffers from the following problems:

> * This radius around the target is larger than that of enhanced shade radius (300; [sand Savant](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW"))

> * The attack occurs around the target regardless of the target's state (Blocking, Invulnerable, Evading); The attack will still hit the players around the target and thus convert their boons unless they are mitigating the attack themselves.

> * The low recharge time combined with the amount of boons converted to conditions results in a skill with an extreme amount of boon conversion power (corrupts/strips), if not effectively the highest in-game

> * There is no clear animation/tell for this **ranged** skill

>

>

> Taking all of this into consideration; This **weapon skill** is currently arguably stronger than any of the utility & profession (shade) skills.

>

> My personal recommendation to bring this skill into line with other abilities is to at least increase the recharge time to 20 seconds & to reduce the amount of boons converted to conditions to 1.

> Also The (AoE) attack should not occur if the actual target is not hit.

 

You should also consider that this was a core necro change yes its strong with scourge but you are only looking at it and comparing it to scourge stuff "only" which you shouldnt be doing.

 

That said you didnt take all things into consideration with "This weapon skill" Because if you had you would have realized that its a core necro skill and how slow the core necro weapons are in general. Necro from its core will always shine and punish groups of foes and punishing boon spam.

 

As far as its strength when compared to utility skills it should be. Most weapon skills across the entire game are stronger than the utility skills. You wont find many skills where the utility is stronger than the weapon skills the profession has with the exception being the old version of mesmer "disenchanter"

 

Stop only comparing it to sand savant as it has a much higher cd and cant be used as frequently thus it has more punch to it.

 

The only thing i agree with in your post is the way it interacts with the status of the target

IF the target evades the attack or blocks it then the aoe simply should not happen.

 

The recharge is fine as the biggest offensive skill on the weapon and the only one that corrupts boons or generates life force it seems pretty fair. The other optional idea would be looking into anet to move some power of the skill into the auto attack or skill 2.

 

And some other people point out that boons are probably the bigger problem. Less boons means less counter tools are needed to fight them. As the only and main professions that is built around counter boon'ing it need to have strong tools against it. My guess that right now this is anets attempt to solve or balance out the boon problem before actually hitting it directly. Because im sure that would upset people even more.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> > >

> > > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

> >

> > No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

>

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> > >

> > > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

> >

> > No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

>

> So you admit that warrior bubbles alone do nothing, precisely my point.

 

Open field? They are weaker, but still very good.

Choke fight? Deadly

 

So basically you want to lay bubble down and then scourges have to corrupt but then other classes like Eles have to keep enemies inside the bubble

[ImperialWL.7138]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> > > >

> > > > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

> > >

> > > No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

> >

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > > If the enemy zerg still has boons after your war bubble dives them, then you need better wars

> > > >

> > > > If your enemies have no boons after only warrior bubbles, then you need to find better enemies.

> > >

> > > No. U need better teammates if they aren't able to hold enemies inside of the bubble.

> >

> > So you admit that warrior bubbles alone do nothing, precisely my point.

>

> Open field? They are weaker, but still very good.

> Choke fight? Deadly

>

> So basically you want to lay bubble down and then scourges have to corrupt but then other classes like Eles have to keep enemies inside the bubble

 

Thank you, you just confirmed my point once again.

[Rym.1469]

This skill's descreption reminds me of fully traited Steal's one.

 

I'll leave the judgement on how powerful it is in wvw to others, but I'd like to point out to ArenaNet that there are more skills on scepter than #3.

 

Move some effects off it to #2 if possible.

[allshallperish.4620]

I agree if the target is blocking then it shouldnt still hit other's, other than that maybe reduce the boons converted to 1/2 or tone it down dmg wise. or both.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"allshallperish.4620" said:

> I agree if the target is blocking then it shouldnt still hit other's, other than that maybe reduce the boons converted to 1/2 or tone it down dmg wise. or both.

 

Why? Name one other AoE skill that works like this. No, Epidemic doesn't count.

[Tammuz.7361]

they really do need to tone scepter 3 down a bit... an extra 15 corrupts per scourge to open a fight at 900 range is kinda excessive

 

also the lack of needing LOS is just over the top

 

in exchange though, I would like to see some return of condition damage scourge to the meta since they nuked dhumfire, (maybe reduce it to a 1 sec cooldown in wvw as with pve)

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Avoid.2807" said:

 

> This skill (thus) suffers from the following problems:

> * This radius around the target is larger than that of enhanced shade radius (300; [sand Savant](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW"))

 

So? Is there a law that core necro skill cannot ever come halfway close to a scourge skill? I say it's high time elites ate a nerfbat and core necro got buffed, no other profession has such huge gaping chasms between core and elites performance.

 

> * The attack occurs around the target regardless of the target's state (Blocking, Invulnerable, Evading); The attack will still hit the players around the target and thus convert their boons unless they are mitigating the attack themselves.

 

But guardians are just fine sharing aegis like free candy, no to mention distorition mesmers. Things are already hard to hit as is.

 

> * The low recharge time combined with the amount of boons converted to conditions results in a skill with an extreme amount of boon conversion power (corrupts/strips), if not effectively the highest in-game.

 

Spvp has 2 condies cleansed and it feels fine. Trust me i main a necro - corrupts aren't as easy to get as you think they are, many a profession can still overspam boons despite necro giving it his A-game in terms of corrupts. Not to mention in zergs guards run in packs, providing absurd condi cleanse, boon spam and aegis share.

 

> * There is no clear animation/tell for this **ranged** skill

 

Ok, fair enough. I don't mind a bigger tell, as long as cast time is the same.

 

> Taking all of this into consideration; This **weapon skill** is currently arguably stronger than any of the utility & profession (shade) skills.

 

**As it should be**. Scourge is such an absurd spec, everyone thinks necro = scourge. No other profession has such gaping chasm between core and elite spec. Scourge is **support** spec, whose main takes are barriers, might generation and ability to cover large ground with shades. Nowhere does it say it's supposed to monopolize all good things when it comes to boonhate.

 

A-net is doing the right thing - sap power from elites and give it to core.

 

> My personal recommendation to bring this skill into line with other abilities is to at least increase the recharge time to 20 seconds & to reduce the amount of boons converted to conditions to 1.

 

My personal recommendation is to not listen to yours. In WvW zergs "1200 range or go home" is a thing, and scepter's is 900...

Cooldown being 20s is unacceptable. Before this scepter was a huge underpermer among necro weapons, something non payed heed too **cause scourge**. But not everyone is or wants to be a scourge and there the issues are real.

 

I'm fine with condi corrupt being lowered from 2 to3, but if we're going there, can someone nerfbat condi mirage and firebrand cleanses while we're there? Everyone's up in arms cause necro has a strong boonhate tool, while somehow noone minds firebrands being even stronger condi cleansers with heals, and boonspam..

 

> Also The (AoE) attack should not occur if the actual target is not hit.

 

Firebrands and their aegis spam approve this.

 

 

[Hanth.2978]

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > @"Avoid.2807" said:

>

> > This skill (thus) suffers from the following problems:

> > * This radius around the target is larger than that of enhanced shade radius (300; [sand Savant](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW"))

>

> So? Is there a law that core necro skill cannot ever come halfway close to a scourge skill? I say it's high time elites ate a nerfbat and core necro got buffed, no other profession has such huge gaping chasms between core and elites performance.

So does that mean you will be playing core necro instead of scourge? because if you are just playing core necro then yes the skill is fine, when this is paired with shade it's very very strong.

>

> > * The attack occurs around the target regardless of the target's state (Blocking, Invulnerable, Evading); The attack will still hit the players around the target and thus convert their boons unless they are mitigating the attack themselves.

>

> But guardians are just fine sharing aegis like free candy, no to mention distorition mesmers. Things are already hard to hit as is.

Distortion is meant to be shared, aegis is meant to be shared. If this is indeed a skill that can hit even though it was evaded, blocked etc then it should be a mark, not something that hit's when the person being targeted was not even hit to begin with.

>

> > * The low recharge time combined with the amount of boons converted to conditions results in a skill with an extreme amount of boon conversion power (corrupts/strips), if not effectively the highest in-game.

>

> Spvp has 2 condies cleansed and it feels fine. Trust me i main a necro - corrupts aren't as easy to get as you think they are, many a profession can still overspam boons despite necro giving it his A-game in terms of corrupts. Not to mention in zergs guards run in packs, providing absurd condi cleanse, boon spam and aegis share.

Spvp and WvW are far different formats. How much wvw do u play? what do you mean guards run in packs? In our guild groups we usually have 1 guard per party and sometimes but rarely 2 because we have chrono's as support. I play necro and what I see more than anything in a zerg is other necros.

>

> > * There is no clear animation/tell for this **ranged** skill

>

> Ok, fair enough. I don't mind a bigger tell, as long as cast time is the same.

I agree, if anet went with a bigger tell that would be fine just dont hurt the cast time.

>

> > Taking all of this into consideration; This **weapon skill** is currently arguably stronger than any of the utility & profession (shade) skills.

>

> **As it should be**. Scourge is such an absurd spec, everyone thinks necro = scourge. No other profession has such gaping chasm between core and elite spec. Scourge is **support** spec, whose main takes are barriers, might generation and ability to cover large ground with shades. Nowhere does it say it's supposed to monopolize all good things when it comes to boonhate.

>

> A-net is doing the right thing - sap power from elites and give it to core.

I also have no problem with the skill being strong but paired next to shade it is very very strong. So I ask again, are you playing core necro now? if so then it's fine but I know for a fact most necros are running scourge and that is where the problem is.

>

> > My personal recommendation to bring this skill into line with other abilities is to at least increase the recharge time to 20 seconds & to reduce the amount of boons converted to conditions to 1.

>

> My personal recommendation is to not listen to yours. In WvW zergs "1200 range or go home" is a thing, and scepter's is 900...

> Cooldown being 20s is unacceptable. Before this scepter was a huge underpermer among necro weapons, something non payed heed too **cause scourge**. But not everyone is or wants to be a scourge and there the issues are real.

>

> I'm fine with condi corrupt being lowered from 2 to3, but if we're going there, can someone nerfbat condi mirage and firebrand cleanses while we're there? Everyone's up in arms cause necro has a strong boonhate tool, while somehow noone minds firebrands being even stronger condi cleansers with heals, and boonspam..

Guard sustain has been getting nerfed for 3 straight patches and most of us guards are ok with that, they were much stronger then they are now. The reason why they need the cleanse is because of the amount of necros out here. Do your wvw guild groups run more guards or necros? pretty sure you will find in a group of 30 we will see maybe 6-7 guards vs 15 necros. The cleanse has to be strong to fight that.

 

Also again I question your wvw playtime. I understand there are classes who have 1200 range but do you find those classes taking up most of the slots in a wvw zerg? Again I know in our guild groups we dont run 12 ele's or 12 heralds, we run 12 necros and maybe a few ele's or heralds and that's it. I agree not everyone wants to play scourge but most people play scourge with some playing reaper and very very few playing core. It's time to be reasonable, if everyone were core necro this would not an issue, most everyone is not core necro, they are scourge.

>

> > Also The (AoE) attack should not occur if the actual target is not hit.

>

> Firebrands and their aegis spam approve this.

Firebrand cannot spam aegis as fast or consistent as necro can spam boon corrupt with these changes.

>

>

 

 

[rixzawalt.8576]

Don't worry, this will be nerfed, necros are only ever over-powered by accident, or by developer mis-understanding the battle mechanics of WvW.

 

I read through and saw a lot of confusion about how the game works in WvW... A quick summary of current meta.

 

Guardians Use Tome 3 4 and 5 to deploy boons. Chrono Uses boonshare to copy boons and increase duration. Entire 20-50 man zerg has full boons with 15-20 second duration at start of fight. Warriors charge in drop dome, 1-2 boons ripped, players dodge out of domes. Necros follow up with Wells, and focus 5. 2-3 players get boon stripped enough to die, each team tries to focus downs while restoring boons and healing up, then it starts all over again.

 

Giving necros a Ranged AOE 10 second well of corruption = bad idea. Now we don't need warriors we can run extra Necros. 3 Necros in a party can target a single player and on command remove all boons around that player instantly, killing 5 players. 10 Seconds later this can be repeated. If you run a 4th necro with BM healing and Curses you can have healing as well as additional boon rip. So basically ideal comp would be 1 Guard, 1 Chrono and 3 Necros... (Not sure if 2 of them would be Scepter Power Reapers though... that just seems wrong)

[Axl.8924]

If you nerf necros you might as well just delete them, because you will in sense kill them.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> If you nerf necros you might as well just delete them, because you will in sense kill them.

 

I mean, it's making a skill require los, and making sure it's aoe doesn't go off unless the initial target was hit. The 1st nerf just makes it more in line with most skills, and the 2nd won't matter in zergs anyway since you can barely tell what's happening outside of bubbles and shades.

Edit,

They could also turn the skill into a ground targeting aoe.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > If you nerf necros you might as well just delete them, because you will in sense kill them.

>

> I mean, it's making a skill require los, and making sure it's aoe doesn't go off unless the initial target was hit. The 1st nerf just makes it more in line with most skills, and the 2nd won't matter in zergs anyway since you can barely tell what's happening outside of bubbles and shades.

> Edit,

> They could also turn the skill into a ground targeting aoe.

 

Making it require LoS is perfectly fine and reasonable. I 100% expect this to be addressed in the next patch.

 

But making it so if the targeted foe dodges, nobody else gets hit? Name one skill that functions that way not named Epidemic.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > If you nerf necros you might as well just delete them, because you will in sense kill them.

> >

> > I mean, it's making a skill require los, and making sure it's aoe doesn't go off unless the initial target was hit. The 1st nerf just makes it more in line with most skills, and the 2nd won't matter in zergs anyway since you can barely tell what's happening outside of bubbles and shades.

> > Edit,

> > They could also turn the skill into a ground targeting aoe.

>

> Making it require LoS is perfectly fine and reasonable. I 100% expect this to be addressed in the next patch.

>

> But making it so if the targeted foe dodges, nobody else gets hit? Name one skill that functions that way not named Epidemic.

 

Los isn't a problem but nerfing boon corrupt when the reason its so strong is boonspam is the wrong way to balance.I don't believe necro should be nerfed any further without very close precise measurements of balance.There is a sort of thing that is happening where people QQ on pvp and WVW forums about another class X class is overpowered insert:roge/warrior/ranger/mesmer etc.Some of it is op yes, but you have people who don't understand the class and make exaggerations like:Oh necromancer can have reaper shroud and scourge at the same time, when that is not true.

 

Anet should listen to the people who actually know how the class works and what can be balanced and how.I don't want necromancer to suffer in pve because of pvp, and end up gutted in pve and pvp.

[DragonSlayer.1087]

I'm probably one of the few the uses Scepter paired with Lingering Curse (Pre-Patch), running pure Condi build.

 

Nerfing the recharge would just kill this skill. Instead, why don't they just nerf the radius to 180, similar to normal shade.