PvP Now Is Not Fun

[melodyspectrum.2980]

I'm inclined to agree. It's become very frustrating. New specs steamroll old core builds and not-as-new-specs, in the end you're kinda limited to playing specific builds or having to work twice/thrice/extra hard for the same efficiency for your team, and that just sucks the fun out of it. Sure, some builds will always be better than others, but it would be nice to have something that isn't the latest xpac spec be at least _viable_. Part of the fun is experimentation.

 

I used to have a lot of fun with my roamer Scrapper and original Chrono build. I can't play them anymore without hurting my team, because due to mixture of nerfs and extreme power creep from new expansion they get destroyed in a moment. Meta had always rotated, but I do not particularly enjoy any of the what, five or so "meta" builds so I guess I'm doomed to either stop playing PvP or be dead weight. :/

 

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > heart of thorns wasn't too bad, but path of fire was over the top. It's made me super salty. :(

>

> HoT release was like having half of your house demolished and then rebuilt in an odd way that you eventually got used to after a year.

>

> PoF's like going home wasted af and burning it all to the ground before taking a dump on it.

 

^ Amen to this.

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > The drama is real.

> >

> > I think that, if we were to keep it short: there are way too many specializations and people are starting to have trouble keeping track of how to fight every one of then.

>

> There isn't really that many. They simply aren't really designed for competitive pvp, just small attempts at balancing for it. If the amount mattered then games like league with over 100 champions, several with multiple different build/play styles, would be overwhelming, as well as most shooters with the hundreds of combinations. GW2 is rather simplified in comparison. It's just those games have a pvp focus, GW2 has multiple forms of pve, spvp and then wvw to worry about, and can't design exclusively around pvp. This causes pvp to be unfun, and even when certain setups are 'weak' they will never be enjoyable to play against even when you win. This isn't a problem exclusive to GW2 either, look at all the games with big pvp, they aren't MMORPGs for a reason.

 

I will agree in the part where MMoRPGS, due to divided attention, can have a weaker pvp mode when comparing to an arena game.

_That said, you can't enjoy PvE on a arena game, has 1/100 of our customization, nothing to do aside arenas._

 

On the part the GW2 is simplier than some MObs, sorry to disagree.

LoL 141 Heroes have 705 skills to worry about.

 

Guild Wars 2 has 9 core classes and 18 specializations; but we have around 100 weapons/skills/utilities per class.

All of that is cluttered in 9 character appearances, since one single "Guardian" can in practice interact with you in over 100 different ways before you start filtering and recognizing then by specialization, weapon set and build.

 

GW2 PvP combat is by, no mean, simple compared to most PvP Mobas.

Conquest is indeed more simple than "Defense of The Ancients" Arena mode but it's still many times more complex than your average MMoRPG Deathmatch/King of the Hill game mode that you find everywhere.

[Aza.2105]

Yep there is nothing fun about gw2 pvp atm. I played GW1 pvp from launch up until the game was in its later life stage. And it never felt like I wasn't having fun. I rarely encountered team mates going afk, giving up, extreme toxicity. At most the only time I'd see raging is when someone didn't bring a rez signet in their build. GW2 is very different, matches feel more like a tedious task rather than being enjoyable. The levels of toxicity from other players is substantial. At first I thought it was just the people, then I realized they aren't really at fault. At least not most of them.

 

Rather its the conquest game mode. Anet has forced a tournament style game mode play upon everyone. A mode that requires communication and coordination to succeed. This doesn't work well with a bunch of randoms put together. There really isn't a way to communicate with players besides pinging and stopping to type. Its a nightmare and its always have been. Conquest mode causes a lot of people to rage since its just not fun. The mode should be reserved for ATs and unranked and ranked should get a different game mode. Maybe similar to alliance battles in gw1.

 

I rarely login these days and I have a hard time playing the game since its just not enjoyable. I brought gw2 to pvp just like I did for many years in gw1. Since pvp is a hot mess and it will never ever change, there is little motivation for me to play.

 

[unbornchikken.5104]

I'm a relatively new player. I have been playing MMO and MOBA games for years. I'm a pvp player who play pve just for grinding stuff for pvp.

 

I tried GW2 many times on the past but always gived up before level 20 because hearts are boooring af. Yeah, I know that I don't need stuff for pvp but I wanted to start with wvw to git gud. It was POF that helped me to catch on, because mounts. That was a brilliant addition to this game.

 

So, pvp is very very good atm in this game. Compared to others that I played. Power creep is a feature that add dynamics to the battle. You should learn and counter other classes, or you will die. Compare this to ESO for example. Despite to years of nerfs, good players can fight to each other until someone get bored and lives.

 

Or look at Smite. They even inroduced power creep and heavily nerfed defense to make everyone killabble. S5 was a huge fun because of that.

 

Yeah, it's hard to git gud in current meta, but it is fun definitely. Or if you cannot kill a spec, join them. You'll learn their weakness.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

It's boring mostly because it's been the same things for years. Same goals with different looking maps. GW1 had a plethora of PvP options and I'll never understand why they don't bring some of them over. We need variety not only in specs but game types too.

[FyzE.3472]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> Been that way for a long time. Anet has power-crept their game for WAY too long now.

>

> Too many builds have mechanics that are just downright frustrating to fight: the constant detargets and clone spam of a mirage ruining visibility and fight clarity, stealth on dodge for DE, dodge while stunned/immob/etc. for mirage, the long chains of invulns/dodges/blocks for a spellbreaker/rev/ranger/weaver, all the free ports a mirage, thief, and rev get that make positioning worthless, the abilities that stack a million kinds of condis for necro/mirage making cleanse nearly useless unless you have TONS, the free damage procs that do a significant amount of damage for necro/holo/rev, and more!

>

> Anet has LONG since left behind GW2 as a skill-based game where big actions had a big tell (and long CD), where condis and cleanses were deliberate, where fights had an ebb and flow, where hard-damage mitigation (invulns, blocks, evades) were few and far between (and thus saved for the few big hits), where soft-damage mitigation (prot, soft-cc, toughness) had a place in the game, and where every spec had roles AND holes. Sure, they were never perfect, but at least you could come up with viable strategies against anything. Nowadays, the number of straight up hard-counters is just sad.

>

> I often see the best advice given out for fighting a mirage is to Alt-F4...and while it is meant as kind of a joke, it is also true. There is nothing fun about fighting a spec that has the upper hand in everywhere, is full of visual puke, and doesn't even have effective means to punish it. Even if you kill one...the fight was never fun. In fact, when you do kill one you are just left bitter that someone with the deck stacked ridiculously in their favor still failed so miserably.

>

> Oh well, all aboard the buff train!! FPS-ville, here we come!!!

 

I think I will pick a ranger, enable action camera and start peek-shooting from corners and kite like its an FPS. Reminds me of Realm Royale :D

[MiGFiD.1760]

I think you might enjoy this

[Ziggityzog.7389]

https://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=13010&game=473&ismb=1

 

Outside perspective of pvp and gw2 in general. Good read

[alcopaul.2156]

stacked dead eyes only exist in unranked. ranked pvp i experienced is all about that boom boom boom fast group kills.

[Faux Play.6104]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> Yep there is nothing fun about gw2 pvp atm. I played GW1 pvp from launch up until the game was in its later life stage. And it never felt like I wasn't having fun. I rarely encountered team mates going afk, giving up, extreme toxicity. At most the only time I'd see raging is when someone didn't bring a rez signet in their build. GW2 is very different, matches feel more like a tedious task rather than being enjoyable. The levels of toxicity from other players is substantial. At first I thought it was just the people, then I realized they aren't really at fault. At least not most of them.

>

> Rather its the conquest game mode. Anet has forced a tournament style game mode play upon everyone. A mode that requires communication and coordination to succeed. This doesn't work well with a bunch of randoms put together. There really isn't a way to communicate with players besides pinging and stopping to type. Its a nightmare and its always have been. Conquest mode causes a lot of people to rage since its just not fun. The mode should be reserved for ATs and unranked and ranked should get a different game mode. Maybe similar to alliance battles in gw1.

>

> I rarely login these days and I have a hard time playing the game since its just not enjoyable. I brought gw2 to pvp just like I did for many years in gw1. Since pvp is a hot mess and it will never ever change, there is little motivation for me to play.

>

 

Sounds like you never played hero battles. That was the most epic pvp fail I have seen in the GW history. Random arenas had lots of people that would insta resign if their team didn't get a monk. Elitism in halls was made it nearly impossible for new players to get involved, and it completely killed off team arenas.

[Faux Play.6104]

Dupe post..............

[wwDefuser.2056]

I can deal with Reaper, holo, Guard, DH, Thief, DD, Ranger, Soulbeast, ... mechanics and animations that allow players to act and react.

 

But Fighting perma evade/ultra sustain Weaver , Stealth on Dodge Deadeye with Reveal-cleanse, Mirage with it's Ilusion spam and Evade/Stunbreak dodges, Firebrand with its stupid heal, that eats your whole dmg, aswell as Spellbreaker and last but not least the freaking blinking scourge aoe's makes the game a *clown fiesta*.

 

You cant see what shade skills necro uses cause it's blinking all the same.

You cant actually kill a good FB or Weaver in a 1n1 cause their sustain is ridiciulous.

You need a lot of time and prediction to kill a deadeye with only 1 reveal skill and almost perma stealth.

Mirage doesnt even need to use a skill when he's stomping you nowadays. You also need to waste all your dodges/blocks and cleanse/stunbreak to survive a Mirage (condi or power) burst with it tons of Illusion/clones , shatter crap combined with the 'one shot'-meta.

 

This is neither newbie friendly for players that like to get into PvP nor is it challenging/exciting to outplay healbots stealthbots and oneshot out of stealth specs.

Like others in this thread mentioned before ... HOT was miserable on release, but POF even outperformes that with it'S stupid mechanics.

 

the PvP population is so low, that i get matched with Banner-Warriors in Platin ... lol.

 

[RlyOsim.2497]

I'm beginning to think Anet's end-game for warrior balance is death from old age.

Why am I waiting 20seconds for a fight to start if the fight already started?

Mirage dodge.

Auto-proc invuns.

'One' shots from stealth.

And the players, they toxic a lot.

 

[Virelion.4128]

The pvp in this game:

- matches are desided by comp and players rating, having superior comp and similar skill just leaves other team in gutter.

- duels are desided by specs, hard counters are flying left and right

- fights are decided in seconds. Instant pick on enemy necro if it succeds you win. If guard saves him you loose.

- the seazon winners are decided by win traders and cheats. Sometimes they get banned for 3 months (lol) from pvp (lol again)

- Only alive thing in pvp left is forum which is filed with complain threads

 

Good luck cleaning this mess up, devs.

[Axelteas.7192]

I play core game since 2012 and didnt buy the 2 expansions because the content wasnt new or appealing to me, now when I want to play PvP I'm usually anihilated, It doesnt care how I practice how good I am making combos, I just can win I fight vs some casual newbies.

People who play POF specializations is like if they were using hacks compared to a core player. Moreover the holosmith with runes of durability is like trying to solo a fractal finalboss, totally shameful un disproportionate. PvP has become pay to win.

[Reirli.3817]

Balance sucks, but my main concern is the general matchmaking, alot of times you get hit or miss players. Also pvp is brimming with toxicity, players left and right complaining. people with rotational issues. I don't understand how the system matches honest players with intentional and unintentionally griefers.

 

i honestly think just mirage and deadeye needs a nerf... forgiving to play, punishing to enemies. With every new expansion, we're only getting even more explosive elite specs, and the meta will change again and again until core builds or HoT builds will look like toddlers.

 

Anet has abandoned pvp and 5v5 on nodes is so outdated, nothing they're going to do would really change anything tbh.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

Imo, some more variation in PvP might help. Control Point is an ok game-play mode, but certain classes (AoE ones) get pretty strong, like Scourge and Dragonhunter.

 

Simple things like Deathmatch (Free for All with random spawn locations on the current maps, 10 players per), Team Deathmatch, and Capture the Flag would add leaps and bounds to PvP in GW2. They shouldn't even be that hard to design. It is a more low effort fix, but it would certainly add more to the game and fill some holes.

 

This might also allow for different PvP maps to be made, and it would allow for more variation with side objectives.

 

As a more long-term thought. . .fix underwater combat (make ALL skills usable underwater), and add in underwater PvP maps, and/or maps with land and water components.

[Mathias.9657]

Classes are designed with only pve in mind, then pvp team which I'm sure is just 1 dude on his lunch picks up the pieces best they can.

 

It is cancerous gameplay because these crazy builds never belong in a pvp setting in the first place.

 

An even scarier thought is that they actually intended these for pvp because they are so out of touch which isn't uncommon for devs these days, they don't even play their own games lol.

[apharma.3741]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> I agree with this sentiment, mostly. Many of the specs aren't all that bad, but there are MANY unfun specs (that also happen to be OP) that it really puts a damper on the enjoyment.

>

> Mirages, esp with axe, are the MOST unfun spec to fight, esp as a FA ele that requires a target to do damage, the constant invulns, detargets, stealths, and burst just make this fight so abysmal I usually just walk away when a mesmer is around.

> Permastealth deadeye is likewise unfun. Not even having 3-4s of revealed with which to punish a deadeye, along with the detargets, its the antithesis of fun. It might feel fun to use...being invis (essentially invuln due to range + invis)

> Spellbreaker...with its endless blocks, evades, + invulns, on top of high damage, is just terrible to fight, b/c it takes FOREVER for there to be an opening in which to actually attack, and they have HUGE damage ontop of it.

>

> Simply put, power-creep has really hurt the game, b/c there was so much damage that they had to give all these hard defenses. After that happened, they had to remove all the tanky amulets (including soldiers and clerics), because having some tankiness ontop of hard defense made builds unkillable, this meant that builds now just have to stack all of the invuln-frames they can, just spamming out defenses without much proper thought. It has made the game just terrible to play, as fights last only as long as everyone is spamming i-frames, followed by near instant-KO. Stat-based defense is obsolete, and isn't even available for classes that needed it. Power creep has truly ruined the game.

 

While I do agree with this I'll also add that it's not fun playing mesmer outside of condi at the moment as constant nerfs have left it in a pretty meh position. Not as bad as ele but you get the same feeling when fighting things like holo and soulbeast that do tons of damage for taking no damage lines at all. Want to play an off meta build? Well it's probably not going to be fun and chances are you'll have a core trait or skill nerfed into oblivion because an elite spec can cheese it.

 

It's not fun fighting anyone atm because we have spamfiestas, cool downs have become lower and lower, boons become more and more frequent and up 100% of the time. Skills do more damage base line and require less and less investment in damage to be effective. Except it's not uniform either where some skills and classes are left behind making them feel frustrating to play.

 

Then you get people screaming bloody murder for nerfs when a class is not in a good spot. Yes axe on mirage isn't fun to fight (it's not that fun to use either btw) but nerfing it and then nerfing mirage cloak when it's currently one of the weaker 1v1 classes in the meta isn't a good idea either. We need real curbing to power creep, starting with holo, ranger and FB.

[Tyson.5160]

I always wondered what pvp would look like if they didn’t allow elite specs.

[Exturias.9634]

At this point in the year I'm only playing PvP for The Ascension since I'm already quite invested in it. Anet devs appear to have PvP on a very low priority, where the systems in place are borderline ancient and out of touch with the community. Unfortunately if you enter PvP to have fun with your niche build, you'll only end up getting angry until you conform to the condi mesmer/cancer thief cookie cutter builds.

[incisorr.9502]

actually fighting mirage is about the only fun thing in this garbage meta cus at least you can do something and react

 

core guard ganking ? 1shot with a teleport without any chance to react

revenant ganking? 1shot with a teleport without any chance to react

thief ganking? if its not a 1shot you'll still die anyway cus they steal boons with a heal debuff and can't be kited at all while being in perma iframe (higher elo people obv)

holosmith? lmao literally perma quickness 100% uptime and 15k dps with mashing keyboard

reaper? 20k dmg soul spiral alone, what goes if he actually uses more skills

ranger sick em bow? 20k dmg rapid fire, 20k dmg wordly impact, take your pick

 

mirage is the only "meta" build that doesn't 1shot except like boonbeast but boonbeast is the most overpowered class atm so there's that too

 

the power damage in this game is way too high right now and its been like this for awhile and it doesnt look like anet are going to do anything cus they're completely clueless and cus they won't listen to reason

 

[Jeknar.6184]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> actually fighting mirage is about the only fun thing in this garbage meta cus at least you can do something and react

>

> core guard ganking ? 1shot with a teleport without any chance to react

> revenant ganking? 1shot with a teleport without any chance to react

> thief ganking? if its not a 1shot you'll still die anyway cus they steal boons with a heal debuff and can't be kited at all while being in perma iframe (higher elo people obv)

> holosmith? lmao literally perma quickness 100% uptime and 15k dps with mashing keyboard

> reaper? 20k dmg soul spiral alone, what goes if he actually uses more skills

> ranger sick em bow? 20k dmg rapid fire, 20k dmg wordly impact, take your pick

>

> mirage is the only "meta" build that doesn't 1shot except like boonbeast but boonbeast is the most overpowered class atm so there's that too

>

> the power damage in this game is way too high right now and its been like this for awhile and it doesnt look like anet are going to do anything cus they're completely clueless and cus they won't listen to reason

>

 

Ironically, Mirage (Or simply any mesmer) also have the capability to one shot comming out of the stealth while still retaining invulnerability and mobility options in case the Mind Wrack burst fail.

[losingcontrol.1084]

You cannot have balance when there are 9 profession each one with 2 specializations, some builds will be meta, others won't.

If you play an off-meta build you are free to do it, but you are not allowed to complain, if you wanna play seriously and "competitive" you must play a meta build, this was, is and will be always the truth.

It's like partecipating in a supercar's racing and you ride an horse, you can't complain why the supercars are faster and wins on you, drive a supercar yourself and learn to drive it and you will have better results than riding your horse.

This doesn't mean that PoF bringed up lot of powercreep and killed skilful gameplay, now even monkeys can create an engineer, copy paste holosmith and reach plat with zero effort, but this is how pvp works unfortunately.

[MrForz.1953]

Been a while since I stopped having fun. No more tricks up one's sleeve or such, it's simply a matter of who has the most of everything except maybe for Deadeye, an entirely different beast on which its toxicity was predicted in 2014 when people merely thought of giving rifle to Thief.