GW2 Marketing

[RazielSpecter.6295]

> @"Tsar CUBE.9281" said:

> Well they tried this whole "Bubble Tea" thing recently... and that didn't go quite as planned either :P

>

> Also, in my humble opinion this game is better then WoW.

 

Well, honestly seems you did not read what i wrote. I love this game, and think it has potencial but as i said, The game has few streamers compared to Wow, Black Desert, Overwatch... What am saying is, i want this game be the reference in mmo. Gw2 isn't in the moment. And i think Wow still is. Anet has everything to be the new Blizzard, but to make this happen we need more players. To attract more players we need better propaganda, ad.

 

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > Let's bring up years old videos as an example as to why marketing is bad now.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So, you think the marketing is okay?

>

> Recently their marketing efforts were fairly okay. Barring when stuff went wrong ofcourse.

>

> I think the one thing that feels missing from GW2 is maybe physical box-sales or merchandise not sold by a third party. Because when I go to any computer shop, or any game shop, the amount of GW2 related releases that are physically present are usually countable on one hand- IF there is one at all.

>

> Not that I go into an actual gameshop much, but being a GW2 fan in such a shop is like, yeah I play this game.... that you don't really seem to have .. what am I even doing here?! GW2 players don't belong in gameshops, apparently.

>

> Ofcourse, something like that probably requires some sort of funding. (Though kick starters and 3rd party gw2 merch stuff seem to be popular enough, but what do I know)

 

Well, sorry for this but, doesn't matter if its not working.> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't really get 'marketing' for MMO .... anyone savvy enough to even be in the market to play an MMO knows where to get the information they want to know about games and find out what games are out there. It's almost not even an issue to pay something. Many MMO's give the option to play for free to get a taste. Unless there is some big hidden market of MMO players that don't know about the internet and MMO's, I think the 'bad marketing' issue is overblown.

 

Seriously? > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> GW2 has other - conceptional - problems that keep it from being more successful; it's not marketing.

 

Well, if people don't know about the existence of the game, how will know if the game is good or bad? Tell me please.

[Lucius.2140]

Also more reviews for new content. They could give exclusives, etc.

[RazielSpecter.6295]

Let me put some atual ad

 


 

 

> @"Karaha.3290" said:

> > @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

> > This game has the potential to be way better than wow in my opinion

>

> This game **is** better than WoW in my opinion. Even without big marketing.

>

 

Yeah? Explain me why our number of players is fewer. Why we have not a lot of streamers like wow do. Why people dont know about this game. Just say does not prove anything. I'm not attacking the game. I love the game and i want Anet be the new blizzard and if they continue doing what they're, Anet won't be.

[StinVec.3621]

@"RazielSpecter.6295", if you would first utilize the forum SEARCH function at the top of the page and search for "Marketing", you'll find that marketing of the game is not some new topic that nobody has thought to discuss before. In fact, it has been discussed quite a bit by others.

 

One of the search results -if the search function were to be used- would be a lovely little 8 page discussion called "[Let’s Talk About Marketing...](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18745/let-s-talk-about-marketing "Let’s Talk About Marketing...")" that was started by @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" who is the **Head of Global Marketing at ArenaNet**.

 

Perhaps you could take a little time and review what has already been discussed on the matter and how marketing has already changed in the last few years since the cited taxi videos, as well as over this past year since Mike initiated that discussion.

[phokus.8934]

> @"Tsar CUBE.9281" said:

> Well they tried this whole "Bubble Tea" thing recently... and that didn't go quite as planned either :P

>

They'd been better off doing something with Twitch with the release of the next expansion to bring over some potentially big name streamers. But the staying power of GW2 is severely lacking.

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

>> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > GW2 has other - conceptional - problems that keep it from being more successful; it's not marketing.

>

> Well, if people don't know about the existence of the game, how will know if the game is good or bad? Tell me please.

 

There are people that know about GW2 but simply don't care exactly because of its fundamental flaws. Let me put it like that: Every MMORPG has a conceptual framework in which it can operate. Sometimes, such a framework can support the purpose of its specific title good and sometimes rather bad. The framework of GW2 is rather weak when it comes to supporting a full-fledged MMORPG. That is because GW2 is still too single-player-focussed, still follows the conceptual spirit of GW1 too much. That doesn't necessarily mean that GW2 is a bad game - it's a good game -, but it is a rather weak MMORPG (people need to be able to differentiate here). In that regard, among people who actually want to play a real MMORPG, GW2 is more of a niche game. Arguably, a significant part of the playerbase is playing GW2 because it serves as some kind of MMORPG-simulation. What GW2 lacks for most potential customers is actual MMORPG-gameplay where teamplay matters and a real community-feeling (which GW2 utterly lacks).

[starlinvf.1358]

But its also a doubled edged sword. Modern marketing makes a game more well known, and more profitable overall, but it doesn't make for a better game. WOW is proof of both side of the argument; its one of the single biggest games in existence, but its also become one of the most underwhelming games in its efforts to hold that ranking. WOW, COD and the other Archetypes since the Xbox boom in the mid-2000s are all indicative of a phenomena that seems shared across every entertainment medium; that the market base thrives on experimentation, but profitability is focused heavily in too few areas. The market can only be healthy when we have a wide variety of things to take in, the opportunities to try new things, and help grow genres in the process. But to make lots of money in the industry, its all about chasing trends before they hit saturation.

 

The market leaders always follow the money; and as a result, they've done everything they can to homogenize the market for easy targeting. So much so, that they create the situations that lead to their own down fall, and simply try to force things even further to maintain a status quo for a long as possible. After a while, they stop taking risks entirely, and focus more and more money into "safe bets" on the expectation that they'll make even more money then previous years, simply because they think profit always trends upwards.

 

Anet is different in that they actively try to buck trends, and experiment with ideas, but eventually change course if its not also profitable in process. Hence they tried to cram more common MMO "activities/trends" that they previously shunned, because those trends apparently still make money. They used to oscillate between these 2 sides, but lately they've been trying to find a way to stream line the process by "being the same, but different", in an attempt to normalize the population and stop the hemorrhaging between content releases that usually kills big multiplayer games. Instead of being completely bold, and trying to create a new trend, they're doing what Blizzard used to do, and are now trying to refine existing concepts and porting them to a better frame work. But unlike Blizzard, which does an insane amount of refinement work internally, Anet relies more on spit balling on the Live environment and gauging public reaction. This isn't saying Blizzard is best and Anet is bad; only that Blizzard can afford to do this, and has paid off (in the past), while Anet doesn't have that level of resources, and plays a lot by ear. Not to mention the "eggs in one basket" situation that is Guildwars 1/2 for Arena Net's very survival.

 

 

Marketing doesn't fix the problems with a lot of games.... if anything, its only made things worse over the years due to the evolution of Hype Trains, and its impact on every nook and canny of this industry, its sister industries, and the web of marketing tie-ins thats both dragged things upwards and downward at the same time.

 

 

Honestly, I take issue with the fact that better marketing would save the game, because I think its done almost as much damage because of what the game was meant to appeal to, and what it eventually got as a player base. And I'll tell you right now, PvE was intended as a tutorial for the game mechanics, and something to do between PvP/WvW competitive seasons. Now its turned into the game's primary focus. Its also 4 times bigger then they were expecting in the beginning, and to this day they're still trying to figure out that unexpected market share, and take proper advantage of it for profit.

 

I can also state as a fact, that the huge variation in responses to "what is a proper MMORPG" is partly why the game developed minor schizophrenia, in the Dev's attempts to find a stable design element and predict what the player base likes or dislikes. And yes..... I am implying the player base is schizophrenic in this regard. Which leads to the more important question to this whole discussion..... how do you define an identity when its become a commodity? Because thats just one of the things Marketing does in this age.

[Lucius.2140]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

>

To be fair, WoW wasnt a great game, the industry was in its begginings and nearly everything new was above average.

GW2 lack advertising, more than the whole marketing process, just try to call more people that could be interested.

 

That been said they had a fundamental mistake with the LS1 and HoT, they didnt know well their customers.

IMO as you said PoF was a safe bet, so i cant asume they now know well their playerbase (specially because it has changed).

What its true its that they have develop a better pve formula than the original and it seems to work, if they know why im not sure, HoT releases years ago made me think they were clueless in a lot of aspects (like lowering dungeon rewards, making it so grindy, etc.).

 

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"RazielSpecter.6295" said: Anet has everything to be the new Blizzard

 

Didn't know Anet revolutionized multiple genres and managed multiple games. ANet is nowhere near close to be the new Blizzard. It's as far as it could possibly be, especially after this debacle.

[googel.3278]

ANet is marketing on how skins are the only good thing in the game now, i bet they want to gear it towards The Sims. I can see custom housing and relationship in game, i mean this isnt what role players want? WVW and PvP has always been neglected so lets make more skins!

[Lucius.2140]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"RazielSpecter.6295" said: Anet has everything to be the new Blizzard

>

> Didn't know Anet revolutionized multiple genres and managed multiple games. ANet is nowhere near close to be the new Blizzard. It's as far as it could possibly be, especially after this debacle.

 

PoF its generally acepted as a succes, specially financially (theres proof in the financial reports). WoW sucess cant be reproduced, basically they got the spot at the right time and now the market changed so much that its basically imposible. Thye exist because of their position.

 

The market changed with the proliferation of facebook, shooters, Mobas and celphones, the mmo player base didnt grow as expected because this 4 groups got a good group of their potential customers. Some even left for it. At the same time the MMO customers grew in experience with the genre and in age, making themselves more difficult to please. MMOS need a huge bunch of content to exist and this isnt really good for more advanced customers.

 

An example of that its the LS: better quality story but cant retain for a long time the player base. It can catter to it but lacks the cheer content size and more importantly, cant depend much of grind, with age and experience comes the value for time and grind its the epitome of wasting it.

 

 

[Karaha.3290]

> @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

> Let me put some atual ad

>

> 

>

>

> > @"Karaha.3290" said:

> > > @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

> > > This game has the potential to be way better than wow in my opinion

> >

> > This game **is** better than WoW in my opinion. Even without big marketing.

> >

>

> Yeah? Explain me why our number of players is fewer. Why we have not a lot of streamers like wow do. Why people dont know about this game. Just say does not prove anything. I'm not attacking the game. I love the game and i want Anet be the new blizzard and if they continue doing what they're, Anet won't be.

 

All these things you list are popular GW2 is, but have absolutely nothing to do with how good it is.

Explain the numbers? WoW started way earlier than GW2 and most MMOs and also reached an icon status. If you talk about MMOs most ppl think about WoW, It's like the words MMO and Online RPG themself are marketing for WoW. It's pretty hard to beat that.

Also Blizzard is a way bigger Studio than Anet, with way more money.

 

WoW have more streamer? Sure, WoW have a bigger community. That's just logic.

 

Nobody knows about GW2? Well, go around and ask ppl for GW2, also ask for AION, Lineage, BDO, B&S and any other MMO, you wil get the same answer. People will know about them, if they are into MMOs.

Go around and ask for WoW, I guess almost everybody will know about it. Like I said, it has an iconic status for MMOs, but also have TV spots etc.

 

You find ppl for every content, GW2 have no leak of player, just less than WoW.

The point why I said GW2 is better than WoW (imo ofc) is the game itself.

The combatsystem, the story, the world, the connection to GW1, the mounts and almost everything else. Compared to WoW and every other MMO I played, GW2 is just the best game. And yes, I played WoW and also a few other MMOs. :)

Especially the points that makes GW2 unlike other MMOs, no grinding, no level cap increases, no 326.000 skills in your skillbar, even the pay system and gemshop|gold->gem exchange etc. are points that make this game so much better than any other MMO.

Ofcourse it's just my opinion. I'm sure there are enough ppl who don't like the points I listed, but that's okay. :)

 

 

PS. Tbh have you every seen the mount animations in WoW? Sorry but that's just awful.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

My impression/opinion from a person that has no formal education or experience in marketing is that Anet often seems to try to take advantage of current trends but often misses the mark. That taxi cab thing seemed to be an effort to produce a viral video using a spoof on similar campaigns and media at the time. That didn't go so well and didn't seem to go viral at all aside from the GW2 players that make fun of it. Then there was the eSports thing. Unfortunately it seemed GW2 PvP wasn't really suitable for eSports because it is hard to follow and GW2 got dropped. After that the infamous, "AAAAAHHHHH" campaign that included quotes from random people. Buy our game, "Guild Wars 2 is the best game ever. -John Doe.1234" Then we had the #friendship thing or what ever the hash tag was that at times almost made it seem like GW2 was a dating app. Play GW2 and you too can meet your new BFF or soulmate.

 

From all of the campaigns mentioned above I see very little where they actually show the viewer in a limited amount of time how great this game really is. Potential customers these days have a very limited attention span. They don't want to watch some weird taxi video for over 3 minutes (yes I know that is an old example) or some video about BFFs to try to figure out what the game is about. They want to know within a matter of minutes or less if the actual game play appeals to them. They don't care what Joe Smith.4321 has to say. They are not going to watch a 3 minute plus video about how Jane and Joe met in GW2 and got married and say, "I am going to buy GW2 so I can meet my soul mate too."

 

It seems Anet spends too much time and attention trying to keep up with current viral trends but forgets to show the great things about GW2 while doing so. The awesome game play, the parts of GW2 that separate them from their competitors. But they have a huge Griffon mount they take to trade shows, a food truck they used once. And now an app campaign with a tea company that didn't go so well so far.

 

Of course online MMOs have a lot to compete with as the younger generation of game players are spending more time and money on mobile games. Just look at NCSofts earning statements, mobile games are the number one earner by a huge amount. So I'm not sure how Anet can attract new paying customers aside from showing what they do that is better than their competitors in quick, easy to follow formats.

 

Sorry for the long post. I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I don't really get 'marketing' for MMO .... anyone savvy enough to even be in the market to play an MMO knows where to get the information they want to know about games and find out what games are out there. It's almost not even an issue to pay something. Many MMO's give the option to play for free to get a taste. Unless there is some big hidden market of MMO players that don't know about the internet and MMO's, I think the 'bad marketing' issue is overblown.

>

> You really have no idea what you just said, did you. You really just said that because it's an MMO, it doesn't need marketing because "people know where to get the information"? By your logic, let's not market anything at all since anyone savvy enough knows where to find info. No trailers, no ads, right?

 

I'm not confused here ... you are of the opinion then that MMO players aren't savvy when it comes to keeping abreast of what's happening in the MMO industry and what games are being released and when? THat's .... interesting. That's how I learn about games that I want to play ... isn't that how most other people do as well?

 

Let's be REALLY careful here about what you think marketing does for a game that provides a unique experience to it's players. This isn't like choosing the right car for you.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

There biggest recent advertisement was bless online.

[Zaklex.6308]

Odd, I've seen ads for GW2 on most of the big internet MMO sites...I'd call that marketing.

[googel.3278]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> Odd, I've seen ads for GW2 on most of the big internet MMO sites...I'd call that marketing.

 

needs more fanservice

[Raizel.8175]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> [...]

>

> Anet is different in that they actively try to buck trends, and experiment with ideas, but eventually change course if its not also profitable in process. [...]

>

> [...]

 

I tend to disagree with this. It certainly was like this in the beginning of GW2, but has definitely changed with LWS2 or at least after they released HoT. At that point, they had their established playerbase. Even with HoT (that actually had some awesome ideas and unique game-elements that distinguishes GW2 from its competitors), they already tried to follow trends to broaden their playerbase (raids). Following the HoT-release, many people complained about the increase in difficulty and ArenaNet acted accordingly and nerfed stuff heavily. That continued until now (major examples are stuff like the Eater of Souls in the PoF-story) and ArenaNet shows very clear that it sticks to its (how should I call it? - hardcore-easymode?) playerbase (the gameplay since after HoT is quite easy since it's mostly targetted at the - how I call it - MMORPG-Simulator-crowd). Yet, they also try to please the more hardcore players by trying to release new fractals and raids (although they utterly fail at doing so considering their release-candence for that kind of content). By now, ArenaNet isn't any different than other MMORPG-developers. They enslaved themselved towards the more single-player-focused playerbase and they are trying to please that playerbase because it's the most profitable even though it's certainly not the healthiest path GW2 could take. You can actually see this "casualization" process - a lot of people describe it like that - in many MMORPGs due to the fact that these MMORPGs want a large playerbase and thus potentially earn more money. Besides GW2, especially WoW is a prime example in this regard. tl;dr: ArenaNet isn't any different than other MMORPG-developers.

 

 

[Yamazuki.6073]

A lot of people know Black Desert because it's a newer game, in addition to multiple controversies. Anytime a game comes out now a days, little marketing is needed because people just over-hype everything now. Just look at how easily games sell now, even when they're horrible, compared to 5+ years ago.

 

GW2 is several years old, and GW as a name is very old. WoW got to be large despite it also being old purely due to having a very large budget for a game at the time, which is not something every game gets to have unfortunately. Relative to other MMORPGs GW2 is pretty large in comparison.

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I don't really get 'marketing' for MMO .... anyone savvy enough to even be in the market to play an MMO knows where to get the information they want to know about games and find out what games are out there. It's almost not even an issue to pay something. Many MMO's give the option to play for free to get a taste. Unless there is some big hidden market of MMO players that don't know about the internet and MMO's, I think the 'bad marketing' issue is overblown.

> >

> > You really have no idea what you just said, did you. You really just said that because it's an MMO, it doesn't need marketing because "people know where to get the information"? By your logic, let's not market anything at all since anyone savvy enough knows where to find info. No trailers, no ads, right?

>

> I'm not confused here ... you are of the opinion then that MMO players aren't savvy when it comes to keeping abreast of what's happening in the MMO industry and what games are being released and when? THat's .... interesting. That's how I learn about games that I want to play ... isn't that how most other people do as well?

>

> Let's be REALLY careful here about what you think marketing does for a game that provides a unique experience to it's players. This isn't like choosing the right car for you.

 

Glad to see you're back to making assumptions just to fit your opinions and placing words in people's mouths.

 

At no point did i say that MMO players aren't savvy, i said that your opinion of "since they're savvy, there shouldn't be ads" is clearly wrong since, following your ridiculous logic, we don't need ads for anything since people that are interested or savvy will already know where to find the info they need.

[Obtena.7952]

Hold on a minute now. You're accusing ME of placing words in people's mouths? That's just WOW.

 

I'm going to STRONGLY urge you to go back, look at my first post before I have to quote _myself_ and ask you directly in that post where I EVER said there should be no ads. If you don't understand what my meaning is, then you should ASK what I mean before YOU are left looking like the one that attacks and accuses people of things you are doing yourself.

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> Odd, I've seen ads for GW2 on most of the big internet MMO sites...I'd call that marketing.

 

Ditto. I am surprised that people think ANet wasn't doing enough for advertizement. Sure, they could do things like tv commercials, and that would surely be a smarter investment than a 250k statue (what statue, by the way?), but I am not sure you want the clientele that "big titles" have. I like this community better this way. ;)

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> I think the one thing that feels missing from GW2 is maybe physical box-sales or merchandise not sold by a third party. Because when I go to any computer shop, or any game shop, the amount of GW2 related releases that are physically present are usually countable on one hand- IF there is one at all.

>

> Not that I go into an actual gameshop much, but being a GW2 fan in such a shop is like, yeah I play this game.... that you don't really seem to have .. what am I even doing here?! GW2 players don't belong in gameshops, apparently.

>

> Ofcourse, something like that probably requires some sort of funding. (Though kick starters and 3rd party gw2 merch stuff seem to be popular enough, but what do I know)

 

This very much. I don't go to physical game stores much, but I walk past a few quite often. Whenever there's a new expansion for WoW or ESO or some hyped new MMO coming out, there are huge cardboard ads beside the doors and shelves full of physical copies. Not to even mention all the game-related websites and twitch and youtube throwing all that hype in your face.

 

GW2 gets nothing. Excluding the launch back in 2012, you hardly ever see anything GW2-related unless you look for it. PC gamer, for example, has barely noticed Living World exists, and beside one article they completely forgot about PoF too. I know Mike O emphasized the importance of word-of-mouth, but it's not going to be enough in the long run.

 

Promos like the recent one with KFT is a step in the right direction, but we all know how that turned out. Arenanet really needs to start thinking smart about marketing, preferably with better partners.

 

[Palador.2170]

Maybe they need to partner up with Starbucks, and have them put out a limited run of "Branded" drinks?

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Rognik.2579" said:

> I know I see ads for GW2 all the time as I browse the web, but I can't say how much of that is just Google spying on me or there being a push for banner ads when there are new expansions. I still see them on the downswings, but I don't know how often. Not sure what country you live in or what language they speak, but that could be a factor in why your friends haven't heard of it.

 

Those are google ads. You will start to see a pattern by using multiple browsers.

 

Look on game lists and such. Rarely do you see GW2 break into their top 10. Despite how much content there is.