Deaths Judgment

[MUDse.7623]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> The marking problem is probably a bug. I think it will be fixed soon (or in a couple months). The skill description clearly states ..."increases your damage against the marked target". If they can mark A, and hit B the extra damage should not be applied. Either they fix the bug or change the skill description and call it a 'feature'.

>

> 3 seconds to get 1 malice stack. Would take 21 seconds to reach 7. In that time a player can move a big distance and maybe get out of range, break line of sight behind an object, stealth, etc.

 

my skill description ingame says: Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.

doesnt say anything ybout marked target, if yours is diffrent could you please post a screenshot of it? ty.

 

i so far marked alot of people and remained in stealth that 21 seconds and they where waiting for me to do something mostly jumping around till they dropped. somehow not even 1 in a 100 enemies considered running as a good option.

 

 

[xDudisx.5914]

> @MUDse.7623 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > The marking problem is probably a bug. I think it will be fixed soon (or in a couple months). The skill description clearly states ..."increases your damage against the marked target". If they can mark A, and hit B the extra damage should not be applied. Either they fix the bug or change the skill description and call it a 'feature'.

> >

> > 3 seconds to get 1 malice stack. Would take 21 seconds to reach 7. In that time a player can move a big distance and maybe get out of range, break line of sight behind an object, stealth, etc.

>

> my skill description ingame says: Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.

> doesnt say anything ybout marked target, if yours is diffrent could you please post a screenshot of it? ty.

>

> i so far marked alot of people and remained in stealth that 21 seconds and they where waiting for me to do something mostly jumping around till they dropped. somehow not even 1 in a 100 enemies considered running as a good option.

>

>

Deadeye's mark:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye%27s_Mark

 

Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose all malice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.

 

It make no sense to mark A and get extra damage against B.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > @MUDse.7623 said:

> > > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > > The marking problem is probably a bug. I think it will be fixed soon (or in a couple months). The skill description clearly states ..."increases your damage against the marked target". If they can mark A, and hit B the extra damage should not be applied. Either they fix the bug or change the skill description and call it a 'feature'.

> > >

> > > 3 seconds to get 1 malice stack. Would take 21 seconds to reach 7. In that time a player can move a big distance and maybe get out of range, break line of sight behind an object, stealth, etc.

> >

> > my skill description ingame says: Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.

> > doesnt say anything ybout marked target, if yours is diffrent could you please post a screenshot of it? ty.

> >

> > i so far marked alot of people and remained in stealth that 21 seconds and they where waiting for me to do something mostly jumping around till they dropped. somehow not even 1 in a 100 enemies considered running as a good option.

> >

> >

> Deadeye's mark:

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye%27s_Mark

>

> Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose all malice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.

>

> It make no sense to mark A and get extra damage against B.

 

He asked for a screenshot from the skill in game. Wiki is player controlled, therefore not 'gospel' on actual skill/item/profession descriptions.

[coglin.1496]

> @icecreamsupernova.8956 said:

> Making an awful lot of assertions there considering you don't know the situation, you seem mildy salty about the condi meta though. Yes there are other imbalances, well spotted, that's not what this was about. 17k on a high armor target with no stacks, means it is hitting much harder on softer targets.

 

If you do not want people to be required to make assertions, then you need to detail the scenario yourself. If you make an open ended complaint and offer no details, it isn't particularly logical for you to lash at at folks attempting to determine the reasoning for the occuramce on their own.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > @MUDse.7623 said:

> > > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > > The marking problem is probably a bug. I think it will be fixed soon (or in a couple months). The skill description clearly states ..."increases your damage against the marked target". If they can mark A, and hit B the extra damage should not be applied. Either they fix the bug or change the skill description and call it a 'feature'.

> > >

> > > 3 seconds to get 1 malice stack. Would take 21 seconds to reach 7. In that time a player can move a big distance and maybe get out of range, break line of sight behind an object, stealth, etc.

> >

> > my skill description ingame says: Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.

> > doesnt say anything ybout marked target, if yours is diffrent could you please post a screenshot of it? ty.

> >

> > i so far marked alot of people and remained in stealth that 21 seconds and they where waiting for me to do something mostly jumping around till they dropped. somehow not even 1 in a 100 enemies considered running as a good option.

> >

> >

> Deadeye's mark:

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye%27s_Mark

>

> Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose all malice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.

>

> It make no sense to mark A and get extra damage against B.

 

When people are talking about the extra damage they aren’t talking about Deadeye’s Mark, they are talking about Death’s Judgement, which states “Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.”.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> Deadeye's mark:

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye%27s_Mark

>

> Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose all malice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.

>

> It make no sense to mark A and get extra damage against B.

Deadeye's Judgement:

Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.

 

This says nothing about only being exclusive to the initial person who got marked, thus everything is working as intended. I think this is where most of the confusion lies. Think of F1 as a malice generator that also works as a marker (which deals extra dmg on the marked), but can also use malice for damaging others using Death's Judgement.

[KrHome.1920]

A few days ago I met one of these 11k HP One Trick Pony Deadeyes.

 

I had a good laugh!

 

I am full marauder on Reaper and ate a 20k DJ out of nowhere. Then the guy came out of stealth and I casted Focus5 and **boooooom**... instakill. That was funny.

 

I had to look into my chatlog what did happen there.

 

Spinal Shivers 5k crit > Chilling Nova 2k crit brought him under 50%HP > Air Sigil 1,5k > Chill of Death proc 4k crit > Sigil of Fire 1k = 13,5k damage = Dead Deadeye

[Sobx.1758]

> @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> > @Ubi.4136 said:

> > At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

>

> You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

 

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

[SWI.4127]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

 

You are correct in a duel or small-scale fight scenario. But would you say it's feasible to save your dodge for a DJ which could come at any moment during a zerg fight when there is so much other stuff you need to look out for?

[Sobx.1758]

> @SWI.4127 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

>

> You are correct in a duel or small-scale fight scenario. But would you say it's feasible to save your dodge for a DJ which could come at any moment during a zerg fight when there is so much other stuff you need to look out for?

 

That can be said about literally anything else.

[Solori.6025]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @SWI.4127 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

> >

> > You are correct in a duel or small-scale fight scenario. But would you say it's feasible to save your dodge for a DJ which could come at any moment during a zerg fight when there is so much other stuff you need to look out for?

>

> That can be said about literally anything else.

 

^This is truth

You could be hit my a CoR and die in a zerg just as easily as a DJ in a zerg

If zergs are killing you....

dont zerg?

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @SWI.4127 said:

> But would you say it's feasible to save your dodge for a DJ which could come at any moment during a zerg fight when there is so much other stuff you need to look out for?

In a zerg fight that random projectile block, aegis, protection, other player between you and the Deadeye will save you - if not, you have 49 friendly players around you for an instant-rez.

[SWI.4127]

> @Solori.6025 said:

 

> You could be hit my a CoR and die in a zerg just as easily as a DJ in a zerg

Well to that point let me just say that if this thread was about CoR, I'd be saying it's overtuned as well.

[Solori.6025]

> @SWI.4127 said:

> > @Solori.6025 said:

>

> > You could be hit my a CoR and die in a zerg just as easily as a DJ in a zerg

> Well to that point let me just say that if this thread was about CoR, I'd be saying it's overtuned as well.

 

 

What isn't overtuned in a zerg though, everyone is buffed and their are 4+classes hitting you with the same skill.

In group settings, anything could be considered OP, so why even take that variable in to consideration when trying to balance things?

 

We could get every class that does over 5k with a skill nerfed, but that still would not be enough for people who want to ball up in groups of 30+ and be a lemming

[LetoII.3782]

I'm not gonna complain about deadeye...

But for a game that will never have one-hit kills, this game has a lot of one-hit kills going on <,<

[gmmg.9210]

It's dumb. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a **very** significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

[primatos.5413]

> @Solori.6025 said:

> > @SWI.4127 said:

> > > @Solori.6025 said:

> >

> > > You could be hit my a CoR and die in a zerg just as easily as a DJ in a zerg

> > Well to that point let me just say that if this thread was about CoR, I'd be saying it's overtuned as well.

>

>

> What isn't overtuned in a zerg though, everyone is buffed and their are 4+classes hitting you with the same skill.

> In group settings, anything could be considered OP, so why even take that variable in to consideration when trying to balance things?

>

> We could get every class that does over 5k with a skill nerfed, but that still would not be enough for people who want to ball up in groups of 30+ and be a lemming

 

This goes not about 4 or 5 people hitting one with the same skill and not about numbers round about 5 k it is ONE player hitting with round about 20+k .. so what are u talking about ? DJ needs nerf nothing more to say about this

[Jeknar.6184]

> @gmmg.9210 said:

> Giving a one hit anything without a **very** significant telegraph is just bad for the game.

 

You mean like Mesmer can Stun you with Daze Mantra using Confounding Suggestions and then proceed to hit you with full Mind Wrack that will deal ~7k per illusion out of stealth? Unless you're a warrior/ranger with the traited EP/SoS, the effect is the same.

 

Honestly, I find it much easier to one shot people with a mesmer than with Deadeye because the stun will likely secure the kill whereas the Deadeye won't be able to stun to get a free shot.

[MUDse.7623]

> @gmmg.9210 said:

> It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a **very** significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

 

could you make an example what you need additonal to the current significant telegraph? maybe a 5 second cast, so you can react after 3 and still interrupt it ?

yesterday i had some people asking me for duels after i oneshot them and knowing whats going to come they avoided nearly all DJ - but they still lost :D

it is a l2p issue, luckily most people in WvWvW will never learn it tho so i can still play it. but if i could use deadeye elite on my daredevil i would play that one.

daredevil is better to stomp someone 1 vs 50 cause of the elite but i need deadeye elite when hiding in enemy keeps or towers cause the anti stealth trap spam is still real.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> > @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

>

> Not really. a 1HKO is fine if it carries a substantial risk of performing. Full glass thief D/D backstab thief? Full berserker core mesmer power shatter mind wrack? Gravedigger full bererker power reaper? None of these builds are unfair to play against and fill a small niche for being able to make an uptrade for the most part.

>

> In this case, like many others in this game, there are layers of protection which offset that risk.

> It's the sole reason the long-ranged "stealth sniper" concept is not good for the game in general. It explicitly follows a low-risk : high reward design in a lot of cases.

>

> Just too bad ANet can't recognize these kinds of things are really bad for the game.

 

The logic for why OHKOs are bad is as follows:

 

* OHKOs usually do carry with them substantial risk to use like you mentioned.

* Usually the risk involves a very long wind-up (detrimental to the user) or not long-enough of a windup (overpowered to play against). It is almost impossible to hit that gray area in between.

* In the first case, the skill becomes unusable by the user at higher levels of play. Everyone is capable of avoiding it so essentially the user is playing the game with n-1 skills. Ex: Falcon Punch in super smash bros

* In the second case, the skill is overpowered.

 

In GW2 it works a bit differently. The setup required for DJ is so ridiculous (have to wait 10+ seconds for malice to build up) that it seems severely underpowered. Within that time, if you're up against a deadeye who is running full-glass, full damage modifiers) even in a team fight, he could be focused and downed long before malice builds up. Problem is, DJ seems to function as a OHKO even if you don't build fully towards that. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

[Nidome.1365]

I've taken a 24k hit from death's judgement without being marked so either it is OP or it isn't working as intended.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Nidome.1365 said:

> I've taken a 24k hit from death's judgement without being marked so either it is OP or it isn't working as intended.

 

Something/Someone was marked though, maybe read the Death’s Judgement Skill Tooltip, it will show you as per Tooltip it’s working, stipulations state DJ gets bonus Damage per Malice stack, not Malice stack on Marked Target, Mark gives bonus Damage on Marked Target per Malice stack. See two different things that people think are the same.

 

Malice is generated on the Thief not on the Target.

 

Malice can’t be generated unless a Target is Marked, Mark lasts 23 second season before all malice is lost, Malice can take anywhere from 10.5-20 secs to generate max Malice, attacking rate vs passive rate.

 

Without Malice DJ does mediocre Damage, most high numbers come from builds using Assassin’s Signet for huge Power boost.

 

To get large numbers it takes multiple skills and long setup time for DJ.

 

And DJ Damage doesn’t come from stealth with multiple Tells, 2 Audio, 2 Visual, and the Thief is highly limited on Mobility to use the skill.

[MUDse.7623]

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

>. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

 

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :


 

[LetoII.3782]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @gmmg.9210 said:

> > Giving a one hit anything without a **very** significant telegraph is just bad for the game.

>

> You mean like Mesmer can Stun you with Daze Mantra using Confounding Suggestions and then proceed to hit you with full Mind Wrack that will deal ~7k per illusion out of stealth? Unless you're a warrior/ranger with the traited EP/SoS, the effect is the same.

>

> Honestly, I find it much easier to one shot people with a mesmer than with Deadeye because the stun will likely secure the kill whereas the Deadeye won't be able to stun to get a free shot.

 

It's ok though because even though it happened instantly, it took more than one button

#RIGHT ANET?

[Mayama.1854]

Im the only one that is ok with it in WvW?

 

Its avoidable its not inbalanced if you look at the big picture and it gives thiefs a role in zerg fights.

It also doesnt really matter if a DE one shots me or a daredevil melees me if I try to run back to the zerg with my staff class canon ele.