Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > What's wrong with precursor crafting?

> > A lot of things, starting with the fact that the price to craft them was balanced on what each one was selling for on the TP (a price based almost entirely on the popularity of the weapon type), rather than any sort of objective measure.

>

> Made absolute sense then, makes absolute sense now.

>

> Arenanet has certain values in mind when it comes to different precursors. These values were implemented when crafting was introduced. Less desired precursors are cheaper with shorter collections. More desired precursors remain more expansive with more complex collections.

>

> The popularity of the weapon was the baseline (and obviously the volume and amount traded on the TP).

>

> Not all precursors are of equal value. Not all weapon types are equally desired.

That's exactly the point I'm making, precursor crafting is the _only_ crafting where the amount of materials required is determined by something arbitrary like the popularity of the weapon type. Ascended and below don't work like that.

[phys.7689]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > What's wrong with precursor crafting?

> > A lot of things, starting with the fact that the price to craft them was balanced on what each one was selling for on the TP (a price based almost entirely on the popularity of the weapon type), rather than any sort of objective measure.

>

> What objective measure could there be?

>

>

 

an objective measure would be something like X amount of time, or X amount of achievements, or X amount of gold. Instead they tied it to material values at that time. which fluctuate and change with every patch, and whose value is more based on the market at the time of creation, which is based on tons of other factors. Also material values are not based on any real structure, this is why T5 materials are worth less than t4 etc.

 

you can see the flaw with things like mystic coins and leather, which sometimes makes something counter intuitively priced. like the specialization collections of HoT used to be fairly economical compared to crafting an ascended of your choice, but now they are out of wack with the costs, and compared to Pof specialization weapons, ridiculously overpriced.

 

 

[phys.7689]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > The sigil of nullification does not have a large impact on game play, I'll admit, but what makes it more desirable on the trading post compared to any other sigil? The answer should not be a collection for a cosmetic item. It should be that players use it more often in builds. My opinion is that the collections should not include items like this since it impacts people who have no interest in the collection that caused the price spike as well as the people doing the collection.

> >

>

> That's a very practical ... but not the only ... way to look at the usefulness of sigils as a material that can be bought/sold on the TP. We can wax on academic all day about what we think should and shouldn't be happening; it's irrelevant, especially when the arguments are as weak as "because that's what I think". Somewhere buried in this thread are reasons that are plausible why Anet decided to make this sigil of interest outside of just being useful in builds, and they are very reasonable lines of thought.

 

just because they are reasonable doesnt mean they were overall the best decision, it just means there is a line of logic that is not false.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Don't assume everything that gets implemented is because it's the best ... there are practical limitations are work here; GW2 is not an academic exercise in being the 'best'.

[Shikigami.4013]

> @"Trinnitty.8256" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Trinnitty.8256" said:

> > > ANET could control market value though. If they introduced a sigil and rune NPCs that sold them at steady value, say 3 gold 24/7. That would keep prices from skyrocketing. That would give 3 options: pay a flat gold rate at everyday price, craft them or buy direct off tp.

> >

> > But why would they want to do that? Clearly that's not the intention of the TP. Anet could do lots of things, but we can see what they want by observing the game. TP is great example of this; Anet does not want to control prices; the TP is there to exchange value and facilitate game play between players. There are also secondary benefits to Anet not controlling prices ... like understanding the shifts in player consumption of materials, etc...

>

> Why would they do that? To keep things from getting out of control for months(high prices). To discourage the TP flipping on large scale. Convenience for player base .

> In my opinion they way they did this rune and sigil crafting update was a mistake by being more complicated than it needed to be. Kind of like precursor crafting was with complicated scavenger hunts tied to group events etc. Just my opinion

 

Things were never out of control. The price went up because people are impatient and demand spiked. That is how markets work. Those who were impatient were unhappy with the high prices, while those wo were not were happy to sell at those high prices. Like me. I have no issue with waiting a while, and when the sigils were at 10g I sold the ones I happened to have. For every person who bought at high prices and disliked the price, there was one person who sold at that price and was happy with it.

 

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > And to think, this whole thing could have been avoided if Anet had just charged gold outright to do that collection, like they did with the griffin (which few, if any, people complained about).

> > Lots of people complained about the cost of the Griffon (and some still do, especially some who just bought PoF as their introduction to GW2).

> >

> > Plus, as threads have evolved, it turns out that a lot of the complaints about the sigil's inclusion in requiem armor come down to costs, not to the availability of the sigil. (Certainly not all of the criticism, but a large fraction, perhaps even the vast majority.)

>

> Can you link those? I've seen very few complaints since the revamp and was under the impression that the problem was solved. This collection was a fairly major fiasco and if it has not in fact reached a resolution I'd like to know . . .

 

It is not solved.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > And to think, this whole thing could have been avoided if Anet had just charged gold outright to do that collection, like they did with the griffin (which few, if any, people complained about).

> > > Lots of people complained about the cost of the Griffon (and some still do, especially some who just bought PoF as their introduction to GW2).

> > >

> > > Plus, as threads have evolved, it turns out that a lot of the complaints about the sigil's inclusion in requiem armor come down to costs, not to the availability of the sigil. (Certainly not all of the criticism, but a large fraction, perhaps even the vast majority.)

> >

> > Can you link those? I've seen very few complaints since the revamp and was under the impression that the problem was solved. This collection was a fairly major fiasco and if it has not in fact reached a resolution I'd like to know . . .

>

> It is not solved.

 

Can you elaborate . . ?

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > > And to think, this whole thing could have been avoided if Anet had just charged gold outright to do that collection, like they did with the griffin (which few, if any, people complained about).

> > > > Lots of people complained about the cost of the Griffon (and some still do, especially some who just bought PoF as their introduction to GW2).

> > > >

> > > > Plus, as threads have evolved, it turns out that a lot of the complaints about the sigil's inclusion in requiem armor come down to costs, not to the availability of the sigil. (Certainly not all of the criticism, but a large fraction, perhaps even the vast majority.)

> > >

> > > Can you link those? I've seen very few complaints since the revamp and was under the impression that the problem was solved. This collection was a fairly major fiasco and if it has not in fact reached a resolution I'd like to know . . .

> >

> > It is not solved.

>

> Can you elaborate . . ?

 

Last I looked, which I admit has been at least a week now, since I gave up hoping things would actually change, these were still selling for upwards of 7g a pop. Basically around what they were selling for prior to the changes....and the motes needed to actually make them? HAH, that's a joke too. Literally thousands of sigils salvaged since the changes, and the motes needed to make the things are almost non-existent. I have maybe 5 or 6 of the things.

 

So no, it hasn't solved anything.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> >I agree that my viewpoint is not the only way to look at the usefulness of sigils (never said it was).

>

> No one is saying you can't say what you think ... just accept that it's not the only way to think.

 

Um, I'm pretty sure that is exactly what I did...

[Super Hayes.6890]

Sorry, that didn't post properly. I had previously posted and you quoted me saying the following:

 

"I agree that my viewpoint is not the only way to look at the usefulness of sigils (never said it was)."

[Dante.1763]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > > > And to think, this whole thing could have been avoided if Anet had just charged gold outright to do that collection, like they did with the griffin (which few, if any, people complained about).

> > > > > Lots of people complained about the cost of the Griffon (and some still do, especially some who just bought PoF as their introduction to GW2).

> > > > >

> > > > > Plus, as threads have evolved, it turns out that a lot of the complaints about the sigil's inclusion in requiem armor come down to costs, not to the availability of the sigil. (Certainly not all of the criticism, but a large fraction, perhaps even the vast majority.)

> > > >

> > > > Can you link those? I've seen very few complaints since the revamp and was under the impression that the problem was solved. This collection was a fairly major fiasco and if it has not in fact reached a resolution I'd like to know . . .

> > >

> > > It is not solved.

> >

> > Can you elaborate . . ?

>

> Last I looked, which I admit has been at least a week now, since I gave up hoping things would actually change, these were still selling for upwards of 7g a pop. Basically around what they were selling for prior to the changes....and the motes needed to actually make them? HAH, that's a joke too. Literally thousands of sigils salvaged since the changes, and the motes needed to make the things are almost non-existent. I have maybe 5 or 6 of the things.

>

> So no, it hasn't solved anything.

 

Shoot, ive only gotten enough of this one particular mote to buy the recipe, cant even make a sigil yet.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

 

> Shoot, ive only gotten enough of this one particular mote to buy the recipe, cant even make a sigil yet.

 

Me too :(

[Gop.8713]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > > > And to think, this whole thing could have been avoided if Anet had just charged gold outright to do that collection, like they did with the griffin (which few, if any, people complained about).

> > > > > Lots of people complained about the cost of the Griffon (and some still do, especially some who just bought PoF as their introduction to GW2).

> > > > >

> > > > > Plus, as threads have evolved, it turns out that a lot of the complaints about the sigil's inclusion in requiem armor come down to costs, not to the availability of the sigil. (Certainly not all of the criticism, but a large fraction, perhaps even the vast majority.)

> > > >

> > > > Can you link those? I've seen very few complaints since the revamp and was under the impression that the problem was solved. This collection was a fairly major fiasco and if it has not in fact reached a resolution I'd like to know . . .

> > >

> > > It is not solved.

> >

> > Can you elaborate . . ?

>

> Last I looked, which I admit has been at least a week now, since I gave up hoping things would actually change, these were still selling for upwards of 7g a pop. Basically around what they were selling for prior to the changes....and the motes needed to actually make them? HAH, that's a joke too. Literally thousands of sigils salvaged since the changes, and the motes needed to make the things are almost non-existent. I have maybe 5 or 6 of the things.

>

> So no, it hasn't solved anything.

 

We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I'm referring to the problem with the collection, that it was introduced at a time when the only source of the sigils was a limited number on the tp listed at prices so low that the entire supply was purchased by bad actors who then trickled the supply back out in an effort to exploit players who were interested in actually completing the content. This effort was successful bc anet failed to acknowledge the problem or introduce any alternative way for players to gain the sigils other than through these bad actors. This was 'bad' bc it ran contrary to two core gw2 principles that story content is meant for everyone and that other players are a good thing . . .

 

Two months later anet rolled out the rune/sigil patch which they noted had been delayed for some time. It is likely that this patch was meant to be released along with the collection that required a bunch of obscure sigils, esp considering that legendary weapon sigil swapping was inadvertently released at the same time as the collection as well. This patch created an alternate means for acquiring the sigils, which would have prevented the exploitation we saw when the collection was released without any alternative means of acquiring the sigil . . .

 

You seem to be concerned about the cost, but that is an important part of the solution. One of the factors that allowed the original problem to develop was that the entire supply of sigils could be had for so little, then held ransom. Increasing the cost of the sigils helps to combat that. But it is difficult to argue that the price is 'too high'. Someone who just started the collection today and didn't have anything in their banks to help them could still complete the whole thing for less than 200g even if they chose to insta-buy off the tp. 200g is like one afternoon's grinding or maybe a week or two of casual play. It's hard to argue that it is out of the average player's reach. It would probably take someone who just started today longer to collect the required mistonium than the required gold . . .

 

I'm also curious about your experience with the symbols and charms. I can't say how many I've gotten bc I've used a lot to change builds after the revamp but I know sometimes it seems like I go a week without getting any and other times I'll get three or four just from clearing one toon's inventory. So I'm guessing what happens during the week that I'm not getting any is that they are dropping but I'm not noticing bc I'm depositing them before I see them. RNG is RNG but I don't do a lot of content that drops a lot of gear as loot so surely my luck isn't that much better than everyone else's . . ?

 

Finally I would still like to see links to the threads I asked for earlier, so I could see the problems ppl are still having with the collection in the time since the original problem was resolved . . .

[Odinens.5920]

@"Gop.8713"

 

The cost is directly related to the problem that still persists. They are still the same price as they they were when the collection was introduced because they are still very scarce. The reason is because it's still faster to roll a new character and level it up to get the actual sigil than it is to save up the mats to actually make one. The changes haven't "changed" anything with regards to the collection. I'm willing to bet that greater than 85-90% of the ones on the TP are still from people using the level up method. There has been no great influx of the sigils on the TP since the sigil/rune change because it's ridiculously hard to actually make them, due to the absurd drop rates of the motes needed.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> @"Gop.8713"

>

> The cost is directly related to the problem that still persists. They are still the same price as they they were when the collection was introduced because they are still very scarce. The reason is because it's still faster to roll a new character and level it up to get the actual sigil than it is to save up the mats to actually make one. The changes haven't "changed" anything with regards to the collection. I'm willing to bet that greater than 85-90% of the ones on the TP are still from people using the level up method. There has been no great influx of the sigils on the TP since the sigil/rune change because it's ridiculously hard to actually make them, due to the absurd drop rates of the motes needed.

 

I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

[Zin Dau.1749]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

 

Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols. I checked my storage and I have 0. I have found only 1 or 2 since the new system went live. 1-2 in 6 weeks of daily play.

 

Just admit that the drop rate is ridiculously low. There is no way this can sustain hundreds of different runes and sigil types.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

>

> Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols. I checked my storage and I have 0. I have found only 1 or 2 since the new system went live. 1-2 in 6 weeks of daily play.

You are estimating the amount of hoarding based on your own personal experience and only your experience? How many items do you salvage per day? How many include an item that might convert? What salvage kits do you use? All of these things can affect what you'll see.

 

>

> Just admit that the drop rate is ridiculously low.

Just admit that it's not?

It took a while for even minor sigils & runes to become vendor trash. They had some value as long as many majors did, and those retained some value as long as enough superiors did. Over six years, _all_ of the markets for _all_ runes & sigils became oversaturated (with some important and notable exceptions). The same exact thing would happen if the drop rate of symbols & charms was enough that we could already seem them being thrown at the TP.

 

 

> There is no way this can sustain hundreds of different runes and sigil types.

For this month? Sure, there aren't enough symbols & charms to keep the prices on meta runes & sigils from increasing. Probably not for a while. But once that happens, prices will drop and won't recover. That new equilibrium will be higher on average than it was a few months ago. That is probably good for _most_ players: most of us don't need new runes or sigils most of the time, so any extra items we get from salvaging will be worth relatively more for zero extra effort on our part (actually less effort, because it salvages directly into deposit all materials). For most of us, that will be more than enough to pay the extra costs of higher-priced upgrades.

 

It's not a perfect system, because there never is when creating complete market upheaval. There will be winners & losers, short term profiteering, and long ranger investors who make bank (plus more of each type who guess wrong and lose on the deal). That doesn't mean ANet goofed (and it doesn't mean they succeeded); it just means that market disruptions are disruptive.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > @"Gop.8713" said:

 

> For this month? Sure, there aren't enough symbols & charms to keep the prices on meta runes & sigils from increasing. Probably not for a while. But once that happens, prices will drop and won't recover. That new equilibrium will be higher on average than it was a few months ago. That is probably good for _most_ players: most of us don't need new runes or sigils most of the time, so any extra items we get from salvaging will be worth relatively more for zero extra effort on our part (actually less effort, because it salvages directly into deposit all materials). For most of us, that will be more than enough to pay the extra costs of higher-priced upgrades.

>

> It's not a perfect system, because there never is when creating complete market upheaval. There will be winners & losers, short term profiteering, and long ranger investors who make bank (plus more of each type who guess wrong and lose on the deal). That doesn't mean ANet goofed (and it doesn't mean they succeeded); it just means that market disruptions are disruptive.

 

Not really sure why it's so hard for you to understand that time isn't going to change what the market looks like right now. Low drop rates for mats needed to make things will not increase the supply of said "things" because now, instead of getting sigils and runes from salvaging, and selling the ones you don't want/need on the TP you have to make them. Now, do you think people are going to make sigils and runes they don't need, to put up for sale on the TP, when the mats to make sigils/runes (any of them) are so scarce they won't have those mats when they decide to make ones they actually need? I don't think so....unless, of course you're one of the lucky ones that never has to worry about gold.

 

I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

 

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

> >

> > Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols. I checked my storage and I have 0. I have found only 1 or 2 since the new system went live. 1-2 in 6 weeks of daily play.

> You are estimating the amount of hoarding based on your own personal experience and only your experience? How many items do you salvage per day? How many include an item that might convert? What salvage kits do you use? All of these things can affect what you'll see.

 

Ive gotten a grand total of 20(of various kinds) since the patch went live(only reason i got that many was cause i bought nearly 10 stacks of unided yellows(thanks for all the pres though!~), 8 greens and 8 blues, ive only gotten *4* of the ones needed for /this/ sigil, i cant purchase the recipe still and crafting them with the new system is going to take way longer than a few months at the *very* low rate they drop at.

[Etria.3642]

I farm Istan. Pretty regularly. I salvage everything in silverwastes after completing a vinewrath and I open the bags first. I ship my bags from sw to a lower alt and salvage everything there.

 

Yes I get some motes and charms but I do feel the drop rate is low. I do not auto deposit because I like sorting through what I get and decide to keep or sell.

 

If you wait to make these until you have enough drops yourself it's going to be awhile. Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

>

> Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols.

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

 

 

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

> >

> > Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols.

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

> > @"Etria.3642" said:

> > Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

>

>

 

Is it considered hoarding if you don't even have enough to make 1 full set of runes? More like hanging on to them til you can do something with them. Hoarding was just the 1st word that came to mind.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

> > >

> > > Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols.

> > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

> > > @"Etria.3642" said:

> > > Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

> >

> >

>

> Is it considered hoarding if you don't even have enough to make 1 full set of runes? More like hanging on to them til you can do something with them. Hoarding was just the 1st word that came to mind.

 

Right, and I think that's prolly what most ppl are doing, and that's why we haven't seen an influx of charms and symbols to the market. I think it's that way with most mats -- for the most part if they fit in mat storage ppl won't sell them until their banks are full. Anet has even commented on this behavior and how it influences their decisions about what goes into mat storage and what doesn't . . .

 

And ftr I wouldn't argue against their increasing the drop rates for charms and symbols, I just don't think it's necessary. Over time, the charms and symbols absolutely will become virtually worthless. Increasing the drop rate will only serve to speed that process along. The important part of the fix was making the runes and sigils craftable with items that can be placed in mat storage, and that fix prevents this problem from recurring in the future. It cannot fix the mistakes made with this collection as the opportunity to correct those errors has long since passed . . .

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

> > > >

> > > > Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols.

> > > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

> > > > @"Etria.3642" said:

> > > > Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Is it considered hoarding if you don't even have enough to make 1 full set of runes? More like hanging on to them til you can do something with them. Hoarding was just the 1st word that came to mind.

>

> Right, and I think that's prolly what most ppl are doing, and that's why we haven't seen an influx of charms and symbols to the market. I think it's that way with most mats -- for the most part if they fit in mat storage ppl won't sell them until their banks are full. Anet has even commented on this behavior and how it influences their decisions about what goes into mat storage and what doesn't . . .

>

> And ftr I wouldn't argue against their increasing the drop rates for charms and symbols, I just don't think it's necessary. Over time, the charms and symbols absolutely will become virtually worthless. Increasing the drop rate will only serve to speed that process along. The important part of the fix was making the runes and sigils craftable with items that can be placed in mat storage, and that fix prevents this problem from recurring in the future. It cannot fix the mistakes made with this collection as the opportunity to correct those errors has long since passed . . .

 

I hope you guys are right about the price dropping over time. I am worried that build crafting will outpace the supply as players need more runes and sigils to change builds as balance patches are released. Of course this sigil, as far as I can remember, has never really been in demand for builds.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > > @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > > > > I could certainly be wrong bc there is no way to know, but I figured the reason there has been no great influx of sigils/symbols was that the symbols go directly into mat storage, which again is part of the fix -- can't buy up all the supply if the bulk of it is spread out in players' mat storage . . .

> > > > >

> > > > > Nobody is hoarding charms/symbols.

> > > > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > > I'll be hoarding any motes I get so that when I actually need to make something I have at least SOME of the mats to make them.

> > > > > @"Etria.3642" said:

> > > > > Oh and now that I bought enough to make them I am still hoarding the ones I get. They are just too few and should I need them again I want them handy.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Is it considered hoarding if you don't even have enough to make 1 full set of runes? More like hanging on to them til you can do something with them. Hoarding was just the 1st word that came to mind.

> >

> > Right, and I think that's prolly what most ppl are doing, and that's why we haven't seen an influx of charms and symbols to the market. I think it's that way with most mats -- for the most part if they fit in mat storage ppl won't sell them until their banks are full. Anet has even commented on this behavior and how it influences their decisions about what goes into mat storage and what doesn't . . .

> >

> > And ftr I wouldn't argue against their increasing the drop rates for charms and symbols, I just don't think it's necessary. Over time, the charms and symbols absolutely will become virtually worthless. Increasing the drop rate will only serve to speed that process along. The important part of the fix was making the runes and sigils craftable with items that can be placed in mat storage, and that fix prevents this problem from recurring in the future. It cannot fix the mistakes made with this collection as the opportunity to correct those errors has long since passed . . .

>

> I hope you guys are right about the price dropping over time. I am worried that build crafting will outpace the supply as players need more runes and sigils to change builds as balance patches are released. Of course this sigil, as far as I can remember, has never really been in demand for builds.

 

The thing is if you need a new set of runes or sigils and you don't have enough widgets in mat storage to craft them, you'll be able to buy off the tp without being subject to someone who identified your need before you did and scooped up all the supply . . .