Irbis.4932 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Hats off to Anet for creativity. Creating alts, levelling and deleting them as a gathering method for crafting mats is truly ingenious. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. Â Like I said, willfully limited . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Ardid.7203" said: > > Gaining 14 gold ONCE is clearly not a "great way to make gold". > > With or without impact, pretending every new player to know, choose and sell the same specific sigil in the TP to balance the market is kinda silly. Why to offer them any option then? Also this would mean no new player will ever try to make the collection, so the **supply they offer don't cancel with their own demand**... etc. > > > > That’s assuming everyone that levels a character will actually go for the collection and that none of them ever finish. There’s going to be a tipping point where the number of sigils being created surpasses the amount players actively going for the collection need.  Would you describe reaching that tipping point as a problem or solution . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Ardid.7203" said: > > > Gaining 14 gold ONCE is clearly not a "great way to make gold". > > > With or without impact, pretending every new player to know, choose and sell the same specific sigil in the TP to balance the market is kinda silly. Why to offer them any option then? Also this would mean no new player will ever try to make the collection, so the **supply they offer don't cancel with their own demand**... etc. > > > > > > > That’s assuming everyone that levels a character will actually go for the collection and that none of them ever finish. There’s going to be a tipping point where the number of sigils being created surpasses the amount players actively going for the collection need. > > Would you describe reaching that tipping point as a problem or solution . . ? Neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReV.6097 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Some new players may think the sigils are worthless and won't choose it at lvl64...and the odd few may even destroy it or forget about it. It's their first time, so they maye have seen how crap most sigils sell for and decided to put it away in the warehouse or sell to a merchant. I've seen the issue of supply and demand becoming a problem in a past MMO, and it only served the company better, which blamed it on playerbase.... Those who farmed got it eventually, and those that couldn't wait bought store website currency with cash and got website items to sell for gold, which then they could buy their items ingame. Seems like the start to a bigger issue, if this happens with every new collection. Thankfully we are still at a point where we can farm decent gold and don't rely on Gems to Gold, very often.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliphas.4862 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: >Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. The irony, huh?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Eliphas.4862" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > >Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > The irony, huh? > > Â At little, but at least some of us understand the difference between players creating supply and demand and Anet creating the conditions for it. Besides, I'm not really making any argument ... what I'm saying is based on how the game works for its existence, not what I think Anet needs to do. That's the most truthful thing anyone can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drecien.4508 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I think I've got enough scrolls and tomes to make 30ish toons, guess I better get started so I can make some money tonight. In case they fix it. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumnmane.3574 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Those sigils used to be like 2 silver 50 copper, now they're at 14 gold and climbing as of 2/10/18, and we need **_25_** of these to get the armor skins???? I know a lot of us were really excited to be able to have pants on our toons, but this is a harsh way to make us pay for it don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. Â When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 any news about this going down in price? I am so poor you know... it hurts :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Ardid.7203" said: > > > > Gaining 14 gold ONCE is clearly not a "great way to make gold". > > > > With or without impact, pretending every new player to know, choose and sell the same specific sigil in the TP to balance the market is kinda silly. Why to offer them any option then? Also this would mean no new player will ever try to make the collection, so the **supply they offer don't cancel with their own demand**... etc. > > > > > > > > > > That’s assuming everyone that levels a character will actually go for the collection and that none of them ever finish. There’s going to be a tipping point where the number of sigils being created surpasses the amount players actively going for the collection need. > > > > Would you describe reaching that tipping point as a problem or solution . . ? > > Neither.  Then why describe it at all . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Ardid.7203" said: > > > > > Gaining 14 gold ONCE is clearly not a "great way to make gold". > > > > > With or without impact, pretending every new player to know, choose and sell the same specific sigil in the TP to balance the market is kinda silly. Why to offer them any option then? Also this would mean no new player will ever try to make the collection, so the **supply they offer don't cancel with their own demand**... etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s assuming everyone that levels a character will actually go for the collection and that none of them ever finish. There’s going to be a tipping point where the number of sigils being created surpasses the amount players actively going for the collection need. > > > > > > Would you describe reaching that tipping point as a problem or solution . . ? > > > > Neither. > > Then why describe it at all . . ? You’re going on as if it must be either of the two things you listed. It doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Autumnmane.3574" said: > Those sigils used to be like 2 silver 50 copper, now they're at 14 gold and climbing as of 2/10/18, and we need **_25_** of these to get the armor skins???? > > I know a lot of us were really excited to be able to have pants on our toons, but this is a harsh way to make us pay for it don't you think? The price is insane and there is no defending it. However, you can get your pants without the sigil. The first 2 pieces of requiem armor, which are the boots and the pants, need no nullification sigils. There are also the elegy pants, which are part of the first collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. Â And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Ardid.7203" said: > > > > > > Gaining 14 gold ONCE is clearly not a "great way to make gold". > > > > > > With or without impact, pretending every new player to know, choose and sell the same specific sigil in the TP to balance the market is kinda silly. Why to offer them any option then? Also this would mean no new player will ever try to make the collection, so the **supply they offer don't cancel with their own demand**... etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s assuming everyone that levels a character will actually go for the collection and that none of them ever finish. There’s going to be a tipping point where the number of sigils being created surpasses the amount players actively going for the collection need. > > > > > > > > Would you describe reaching that tipping point as a problem or solution . . ? > > > > > > Neither. > > > > Then why describe it at all . . ? > > You’re going on as if it must be either of the two things you listed. It doesn’t.  Actually I was just asking you to more fully express your position. Someone pointed out that each new player creates more demand than supply of sigils, then you countered that not every player will pursue the collection and at some point there will be more sigils than are needed. I asked if that was good or bad and you said neither. So what I'm asking is if you can't draw conclusions from your analysis, what's the point in making it . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players.  Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it once it is mined and refined? What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. Â No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly.  Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market.  That was very clear from my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider.5792 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 "This sigil is a nice way for new players to get some gold" No, not realy. Firstly, the player has a 1/3 of a chance of picking the right sigil. He will have no idea one of these sigils even has an insane value unless he was told beforehand/checked tp. Secondly, the player might use the sigil on his exotic weapon which he got with a lvl 63 lvl up reward. Thirdly, the player might sell it directly to a npc, or just destroy it. He might realise and sell it on the trading post, but can F2P accounts even sell/buy sigils ?? Unless new players are told in advance, they will most likely not get their gold out of that lvl up reward. Also if you're a new player, and you later realise you actualy missed out on "easy" 10g+, this might be a bit "dismotivating". And again, can F2P even sell sigils ? I dont see them on the list on the wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > That was very clear from my answer.  That's just an evasion. It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. In all of the cases we are discussing anet is driving the bus, which is the question being answered if you look back up through the quoted posts . . . Demand works almost the same way. Anet decides what commodities are needed and demand is created. That isn't to say that players don't participate by deciding whether they want the shiny enough to acquire the commodity, but anet is still in charge. The one way demand is different from supply is that while anet is in sole control of creating supply, it is in joint control of creating demand. Players can create demand by, for example, popularizing a new build that uses a previously useless sigil. But that's a far cry from saying the economy is player-driven . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > > > That was very clear from my answer. > > Demand works almost the same way. Anet decides what commodities are needed and demand is created. That isn't to say that players don't participate by deciding whether they want the shiny enough to acquire the commodity, but anet is still in charge. The one way demand is different from supply is that while anet is in sole control of creating supply, it is in joint control of creating demand. Players can create demand by, for example, popularizing a new build that uses a previously useless sigil. But that's a far cry from saying the economy is player-driven . . . No demand works not the same way. Supply is directly affected by the framework created since it directly relates to items which need to be acquired. Demand is fueled by desire which is created by incentives. (also part of the framework but more abstract) They in no way behave similarly.  Arenanet creates the framework for supply into the game, players create supply on the market. Those two are NOT interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Guess we will find out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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