Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[yann.1946]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > People feeling their loot is worthless for example.

>

> A superior sigil that is only used in a Living World collection is the most expensive superior sigil in the game. How is that healthy for the game? The sigils that are actually useful in the game are worth a tiny fraction of the cost of this one and now if the value of this worthless sigil is reduced people will feel that their loot is worthless?

 

The more sigil that have some actual value the better as it makes getting exotics more exciting.

 

Haven't you seen people being happy that some sigils they had lying around became usefull?

 

Those are legitimate reasons why it could be healthy for the game.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> Those are legitimate reasons why it could be healthy for the game.

 

Being expensive is one thing. Being the MOST expensive sigils is another. I don't want this sigil to become worthless, after all it gives value to tomes of knowledge indirectly (every 63 tomes = 1 sigil of nullification) But this one being the MOST expensive sigil even though it has no actual gameplay usage? No just no. And besides the way this is created is bad for the players too because the value will only be temporary

[yann.1946]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > Those are legitimate reasons why it could be healthy for the game.

>

> Being expensive is one thing. Being the MOST expensive sigils is another. I don't want this sigil to become worthless, after all it gives value to tomes of knowledge indirectly (every 63 tomes = 1 sigil of nullification) But this one being the MOST expensive sigil even though it has no actual gameplay usage? No just no. And besides the way this is created is bad for the players too because the value will only be temporary

 

Most things I agree with. It is not the most expensive tho that's sigil of concentration and I think some weird minor sigil.

 

How temperary will depend on the influx of new players.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"FaboBabo.3581" said:

> > Can you still buy it in TP ?

> > oh well i dont see an issue then ;)

>

> There are only enough sigils for about 50 players to finish the collection, THAT's the problem, not the high price, the high price is a result of this problem, the lack of supply. It doesn't matter how much gold you farm and how much gold you spend, the vast majority of the players will never be able to finish this collection at all because there aren't enough sigils.

 

That’s ignoring velocity/turnover. I’m also curious how many have completed it since the lab farm became active again.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> Most things I agree with. It is not the most expensive tho that's sigil of concentration and I think some weird minor sigil.

 

Since you are talking about how people feel their loot is worthless, Sigil of Nullification IS the most expensive sigil from loot.

Sigil of Karka Slaying is the most expensive but that's no longer available, Sigil of Concentration is next but it's only crafted. Sigil of Nullification is right after that. Next is sigil of Mischief (because it requires Mystic Coins) and is also only crafted. Find a list here:

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/tp/search?name=superior+sigil&sort=sell&ipg=25&page=1

 

The second most expensive sigil from drops is sigil of force and is 1/3 the price. Next is superior sigil of energy, which is 1/5 the price. Players feeling their loot is worthless is a really weak argument to support the value of this sigil.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> That’s ignoring velocity/turnover. I’m also curious how many have completed it since the lab farm became active again.

 

How will the lab farm affect the supply of this sigil? The non-existent supply is the problem, not the price. They could've added a recipe for this sigil that requires Mystic Coins to craft, to keep the value the exact same it is now, and there wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > That’s ignoring velocity/turnover. I’m also curious how many have completed it since the lab farm became active again.

>

> How will the lab farm affect the supply of this sigil? The non-existent supply is the problem, not the price. They could've added a recipe for this sigil that requires Mystic Coins to craft, to keep the value the exact same it is now, and there wouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils. If supply was an issue then it wouldn’t still be on an upward trend with price on a downward trend.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

 

Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

>

> Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

 

The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

[yann.1946]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > Most things I agree with. It is not the most expensive tho that's sigil of concentration and I think some weird minor sigil.

>

> Since you are talking about how people feel their loot is worthless, Sigil of Nullification IS the most expensive sigil from loot.

> Sigil of Karka Slaying is the most expensive but that's no longer available, Sigil of Concentration is next but it's only crafted. Sigil of Nullification is right after that. Next is sigil of Mischief (because it requires Mystic Coins) and is also only crafted. Find a list here:

> https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/tp/search?name=superior+sigil&sort=sell&ipg=25&page=1

>

> The second most expensive sigil from drops is sigil of force and is 1/3 the price. Next is superior sigil of energy, which is 1/5 the price. Players feeling their loot is worthless is a really weak argument to support the value of this sigil.

 

What makes it a weak argument?

And you realist the sigil is still dropping in price so it's equilibrium hasn't been reached yet

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

> >

> > Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

>

> The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

 

On September 18, 2018 there were 22k Sigils before the patch. Supply dropped to 2400 by the end of the next day as TP barons bought 19k sigils of Nullification. Now the rest of the playerbase is at their mercy, those lucky first few players that can now post the rest of the 22k sigils as they see fit.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> What makes it a weak argument?

> And you realist the sigil is still dropping in price so it's equilibrium hasn't been reached yet

 

The fact that it's way more expensive than any other sigil that drops is enough to make it a weak argument.

One question though: how many sigils did you buy and you are so against making the sigil worthless again?

[Crab Fear.1624]

looks like we have a sink for those bazillion tomes of knowledge

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

> > >

> > > Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

> >

> > The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

>

> On September 18, 2018 there were 22k Sigils before the patch. Supply dropped to 2400 by the end of the next day as TP barons bought 19k sigils of Nullification. Now the rest of the playerbase is at their mercy, those lucky first few players that can now post the rest of the 22k sigils as they see fit.

 

This has no bearing on what I just said. You’re also assuming those sigils that got bought up haven’t already been sold off.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> looks like we have a sink for those bazillion tomes of knowledge

 

Saddly as someone who doesnt PvP or WvW i dont have a ton of them as i only get them from login rewards, im sure theres alot of players out there who dont have stacks of them just sitting around which makes this sigil even more painful to obtain.

[Lambent.6375]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

> > >

> > > Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

> >

> > The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

>

> On September 18, 2018 there were 22k Sigils before the patch. Supply dropped to 2400 by the end of the next day as TP barons bought 19k sigils of Nullification. Now the rest of the playerbase is at their mercy, those lucky first few players that can now post the rest of the 22k sigils as they see fit.

 

Those sigils have long been used. The sigils currently being sold are new supply, Or sigils someone randomly found in storage.

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

> > >

> > > Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

> >

> > The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

>

> On September 18, 2018 there were 22k Sigils before the patch. Supply dropped to 2400 by the end of the next day as TP barons bought 19k sigils of Nullification. Now the rest of the playerbase is at their mercy, those lucky first few players that can now post the rest of the 22k sigils as they see fit.

 

Based just on the accounts that are set up with a link to GWEfficiency.com, at least 103,135 Sigils have been used since the patch went live, so the likelihood that the 22,000 sigils that were bought and sold on patch day are still having any impact on current prices is about as close to 0% as is possible. There may still be some listed that were overextended on price, but the evidence we have available all points to the rate of new sigils entering the market being more than enough to prevent any attempts from "cornering" to be successful, no matter how much gold one throws at it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Let’s put incoming supply into some perspective. These numbers are from gw2efficiency so all of those not registered are not included.

 

Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

 

Experiment Completion

 

* Three: 4760

* Four: 4071

* Five: 3629

* Six: 3407

 

That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

 

So yeah, the supply turnover isn’t something to be ignored and relying solely on what you see in supply will give you a misleading picture.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

 

Which begs the question, where did those 10,019 players get the 103,135 sigils since the TP only had 22.4k of those.

 

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

>

> Which begs the question, where did those 10,019 players get the 103,135 sigils since the TP only had 22.4k of those.

>

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to lead people towards the reasonable conclusion, or genuinely wondering...

 

My take on it, anyway, is that the spent sigils essentially come from three places:

* Existing TP stock, approx 22,4k

* Existing stock in player inventories.

* New supply entering the game.

 

It's impossible to know how much the initial off-TP stock was, especially as there may be some on inactive accounts that *could* log in any day. Let's make a wild guess and say it matched the TP stock. (I think it was likely less)

This leaves 50-60k to the last category, so a *weekly* influx of 10-12k sigils. Personally, I think this is *low*balling the inflow.

 

Also, *very* important to remember - this calculation esentially pretends that only gw2efficiency users have completed the collection, and that every player has noticed not to vendor the sigils any more. Neither of those are true, especially not the first. It's entirely reasonable to speculate the actual numbers to be double or triple the above.

[yann.1946]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > What makes it a weak argument?

> > And you realist the sigil is still dropping in price so it's equilibrium hasn't been reached yet

>

> The fact that it's way more expensive than any other sigil that drops is enough to make it a weak argument.

> One question though: how many sigils did you buy and you are so against making the sigil worthless again?

 

 

 

I bought zero sigils and sold zero sigils. And I'm against making the sigil worthless again because I have also seen the good it has done.

 

Sigils of force ones where 10g ones which is Higher then nullification then. What's that also a problem?

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

>

> Experiment Completion

>

> * Three: 4760

> * Four: 4071

> * Five: 3629

> * Six: 3407

>

> That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

Look at those damn numbers, _half the people who completed step two haven't done step three_. If that's not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

 

But no, beep boop free market everything is fine.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Well people farm the ToTs, sell them, and then buy sigils.

> >

> > Sigils that do not exist in enough supply.

>

> The supply you see doesn’t matter if there’s enough coming in to help meet current demand. Follows a very similar concept as Just In Time inventory.

 

No it Does not... JIT relies on a timely supply and resupply of a scheduled product that has a guaranteed suppy chain not finger in the wind lucky drops....

If the supply chain encounters supply issues there will be alternate supply routes built into the process or... it fails to meet demand.... sound familiar.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

> >

> > Experiment Completion

> >

> > * Three: 4760

> > * Four: 4071

> > * Five: 3629

> > * Six: 3407

> >

> > That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

> Look at those kitten numbers, _half the people who completed step two haven't done step three_. If that's not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

>

> But no, beep boop free market everything is fine.

 

And? This doesn’t necessarily indicate a “problem” as there will be differences of completion rates for various steps in collections.

 

For example:

 

Roughly 20,721 gw2efficiency users have completed The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy but only 10,019 of them proceeded far enough into the requiem collection to get to the sigil part.

 

Since half haven’t even done the first half of the requiem collection, does this indicate there’s an issue with that part? It must as you’re using the same reasoning to insinuate that there’s an issue with the second part.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

> > >

> > > Experiment Completion

> > >

> > > * Three: 4760

> > > * Four: 4071

> > > * Five: 3629

> > > * Six: 3407

> > >

> > > That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

> > Look at those kitten numbers, _half the people who completed step two haven't done step three_. If that's not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

> >

> > But no, beep boop free market everything is fine.

>

> And? This doesn’t necessarily indicate a “problem” as there will be differences of completion rates for various steps in collections.

>

> For example:

>

> Roughly 20,721 gw2efficiency users have completed The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy but only 10,019 of them proceeded far enough into the requiem collection to get to the sigil part.

>

> Since half haven’t even done the first half of the requiem collection, does this indicate there’s an issue with that part? It must as you’re using the same reasoning to insinuate that there’s an issue with the second part.

 

It may be indicate a problem because how many players out there are like myself and stopped when they realized the cost of those later steps, i know i did. Theres no point in me progressing further until this sigil is much loss costly than it is now, its to expensive to justify the cost of even bothering to get that far, and i do have enough to gold to buy the sigils.