Nekrooo.1869 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 This is just an idea but I think this would be a good way to solve the problem, Belgian players have. In my opinion, introducing a new currency (call it "red diamond now") will be beneficial for everyone. For players who doesnt have any problem with the laws, the two currency wouldnt be separated. So everything will be as it was before. Let me explain: **Blue diamond (we have it now):** -Purchasable via real money -Can use to buy non-RNG things, like outfits, LS, account upgrades -Can't be turned into in-game gold (to prevent ecto gambling using irl money) **Red diamond (the new currency):** -Can't be purchase via irl money -It is avaliable by using the in-game exchange and can be turned into in-game gold -Can be used to buy everything in BLTC, including RNG boxes What do you think about it? Any ideas, suggestions? Honestly I'm really afraid of being in a similar situation, Belgian players are. This is why I wrote about this idea. P.S.: English isn't my native language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 With gems as they are now players buy gems with money and then can sell them to other players for gold. ANet is paid in real money for each gem sold. How would ANet get paid when red diamonds are bought with gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I'm not sure you understand how the gem exchange works. Blue gems are not created out if thin air (well technically they are but in exchange for real life money). Thus the gem exchange works on basis of gems and gold getting converted from limited supplies. How exactly does Arenanet make money off of red gems when they are essentially the same as gold, and why do you need two in game currencies? Why not simply give a gold and blue gem value to items on the gem store, wouldn't that equal the exactly same idea you are offering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrooo.1869 Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > I'm not sure you understand how the gem exchange works. > > Blue gems are not created out if thin air (well technically they are but in exchange for real life money). Thus the gem exchange works on basis of gems and gold getting converted from limited supplies. > > How exactly does Arenanet make money off of red gems when they are essentially the same as gold, and why do you need two in game currencies? Why not simply give a gold and blue gem value to items on the gem store, wouldn't that equal the exactly same idea you are offering? Honestly...u are right :) And your idea seems to be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Belgian players can purchase anything they like in the gem shop _except_ for items that don't offer a guaranteed result. Their gambling commission wishes to protect its citizens from perceived harm. Whether you agree with that viewpoint or not, it is the law in that country, and I can't imagine they'd accept a work around that would allow Belgians to buy gems with cash, convert to gold, and then purchase prohibited items. If you fear that your government is headed down a similar road, write to your legislators or relevant regulator (probably a gaming or gambling commission) and tell them how you feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrooo.1869 Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > Belgian players can purchase anything they like in the gem shop _except_ for items that don't offer a guaranteed result. Their gambling commission wishes to protect its citizens from perceived harm. Whether you agree with that viewpoint or not, it is the law in that country, and I can't imagine they'd accept a work around that would allow Belgians to buy gems with cash, convert to gold, and then purchase prohibited items. If you fear that your government is headed down a similar road, write to your legislators or relevant regulator (probably a gaming or gambling commission) and tell them how you feel. Yeah, but you wouldn't be able to purchase prohibited items with blue diamond what is available via irl money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWilder.6923 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Nekrooo.1869" said: > This is just an idea but I think this would be a good way to solve the problem, Belgian players have. In my opinion, introducing a new currency (call it "red diamond now") will be beneficial for everyone. For players who doesnt have any problem with the laws, the two currency wouldnt be separated. So everything will be as it was before. Let me explain: > > **Blue diamond (we have it now):** > -Purchasable via real money > -Can use to buy non-RNG things, like outfits, LS, account upgrades > -Can't be turned into in-game gold (to prevent ecto gambling using irl money) > > **Red diamond (the new currency):** > -Can't be purchase via irl money > -It is avaliable by using the in-game exchange and can be turned into in-game gold > -Can be used to buy everything in BLTC, including RNG boxes > > What do you think about it? Any ideas, suggestions? Honestly I'm really afraid of being in a similar situation, Belgian players are. This is why I wrote about this idea. > > P.S.: English isn't my native language. Sorry for my slow brain. I do not understand what is the need for new currency because Belgian players? Do Belgian players have difficulties for playing the game, get the gold then convert gold to gems to buy stuffs? I am confused with your "Red Diamond" to the current "Gold" we are having right now. My brain is not working, can someone or OP please interpret the original idea for me? Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Nekrooo.1869" said: > Yeah, but you wouldn't be able to purchase prohibited items with blue diamond what is available via irl money. Then how is it different from the situation today? Belgians can buy gems with cash and they can use gems to purchase everything that their gaming commission allows. One of the reasons ANet allows gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold exchanges is to undermine the markets for Real Money Trading. They aren't about to introduce a new currency that doesn't have that capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrooo.1869 Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Nekrooo.1869" said: > > Yeah, but you wouldn't be able to purchase prohibited items with blue diamond what is available via irl money. > > Then how is it different from the situation today? Belgians can buy gems with cash and they can use gems to purchase everything that their gaming commission allows. > > One of the reasons ANet allows gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold exchanges is to undermine the markets for Real Money Trading. They aren't about to introduce a new currency that doesn't have that capability. As I know the problem is with gambling using with irl money, and you can use only the in-game currency to buy RNG-things. Or even the existence of RNG-boxes are prohibited? If yes, then sorry for wasting your time reading this topic. :/ > @"VanWilder.6923" said: > Sorry for my slow brain. > > I do not understand what is the need for new currency because Belgian players? Do Belgian players have difficulties for playing the game, get the gold then convert gold to gems to buy stuffs? > > I am confused with your "Red Diamond" to the current "Gold" we are having right now. > > My brain is not working, can someone or OP please interpret the original idea for me? Please I just wanted to introduce a new idea that allows Belgian players to get RNG boxes without irl money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"VanWilder.6923" said: > > @"Nekrooo.1869" said: > > This is just an idea but I think this would be a good way to solve the problem, Belgian players have. In my opinion, introducing a new currency (call it "red diamond now") will be beneficial for everyone. For players who doesnt have any problem with the laws, the two currency wouldnt be separated. So everything will be as it was before. Let me explain: > > > > **Blue diamond (we have it now):** > > -Purchasable via real money > > -Can use to buy non-RNG things, like outfits, LS, account upgrades > > -Can't be turned into in-game gold (to prevent ecto gambling using irl money) > > > > **Red diamond (the new currency):** > > -Can't be purchase via irl money > > -It is avaliable by using the in-game exchange and can be turned into in-game gold > > -Can be used to buy everything in BLTC, including RNG boxes > > > > What do you think about it? Any ideas, suggestions? Honestly I'm really afraid of being in a similar situation, Belgian players are. This is why I wrote about this idea. > > > > P.S.: English isn't my native language. > > Sorry for my slow brain. > > I do not understand what is the need for new currency because Belgian players? Do Belgian players have difficulties for playing the game, get the gold then convert gold to gems to buy stuffs? > > I am confused with your "Red Diamond" to the current "Gold" we are having right now. > > My brain is not working, can someone or OP please interpret the original idea for me? Please Beligium passed a law forbidding the sales of RNG items, such as the Black Lion Chests or any item where what you get when you buy it depends on chance. The OP is trying to think of a way for Belgium citizens to acquire these items in the gemstore as they are now blocked to them >We recently disabled Gem purchases for players located in Belgium. This action was in response to the Belgian Gaming Commission's declaration that paid loot boxes violate Belgium's gambling restrictions. We have now implemented a more refined system, which only restricts the purchase of loot boxes and related items, such as chest keys, dye kits, and certain packs by players located in Belgium. For players located in Belgium, you will see the following message when viewing these items "This item is not available for purchase in your region." All other items and purchases are now available. Please read our FAQ on the subject here. >We appreciate your patience as we worked to comply with the Belgian Gaming Commission's restrictions. >https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/697780#Comment_697780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWilder.6923 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: Thank you. I learned new thing about Belgium laws today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanche Neige.7241 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > With gems as they are now players buy gems with money and then can sell them to other players for gold. ANet is paid in real money for each gem sold. How would ANet get paid when red diamonds are bought with gold? ANet is currently not making any money off Belgium (and Dutch?) players via Gems at all, right? So why not give those players at least an option to purchase Gem Store items via gold? > @"VanWilder.6923" said: > I learned new thing about Belgium laws today. That is a relatively new law that was introduced earlier this year, if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > With gems as they are now players buy gems with money and then can sell them to other players for gold. ANet is paid in real money for each gem sold. How would ANet get paid when red diamonds are bought with gold? > > ANet is currently not making any money off Belgium (and Dutch?) players via Gems at all, right? So why not give those players at least an option to purchase Gem Store items via gold? > Since that quote gems have been unlocked again for Belgium players. They can buy gems and use them to purchase any non RNG item in the gemstore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > With gems as they are now players buy gems with money and then can sell them to other players for gold. ANet is paid in real money for each gem sold. How would ANet get paid when red diamonds are bought with gold? > > ANet is currently not making any money off Belgium (and Dutch?) players via Gems at all, right? So why not give those players at least an option to purchase Gem Store items via gold? Belgian players can buy gems they can buy outfits and so on they just can't buy Black Lion Chest Keys or other Loot Box style goods at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > Belgian players can buy gems they can buy outfits and so on they just can't buy Black Lion Chest Keys or other Loot Box style goods at all. Then I don't get the point of this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > Belgian players can buy gems they can buy outfits and so on they just can't buy Black Lion Chest Keys or other Loot Box style goods at all. > > Then I don't get the point of this thread... > Can’t buy the random mount unlocks. Can’t buy Dye packs. Can’t buy bundled items such as the Zafirah’s Package that has a Dye Pack ~~and a chest that unlock exclusive weapon skins such as the Onyx and Gold Lion Weapon Choice~~ (this might not be a problem). Can’t buy Account Bumps, Account Jump Starts, Path of Fire Preparation packs, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve The Cynic.3217 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > Belgian players can buy gems they can buy outfits and so on they just can't buy Black Lion Chest Keys or other Loot Box style goods at all. > > Then I don't get the point of this thread... > OP didn't realise that the change announced by @"Gaile Gray.6029" and cited by @"Just a flesh wound.3589" had been made, therefore OP made a thread proposing a different way of resolving the impasse. That's the point of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene.3190 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"notebene.3190" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > > > > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? This law is an inordinate amount of handholding by the state that stops people who don’t have a problem from buying items with an RNG base. There are a lot of things in life that’s RNG. Even those little dispensers where a kid put a dime in and gets a random trinket out is technically forbidden. This stops people from even buying the RNG mount purchases or from buying Dye packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene.3190 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"notebene.3190" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > > > > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > > > > > > > > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? > > This law is an inordinate amount of handholding by the state that stops people who don’t have a problem from buying items with an RNG base. There are a lot of things in life that’s RNG. Even those little dispensers where a kid put a dime in and gets a random trinket out is technically forbidden. This stops people from even buying the RNG mount purchases or from buying Dye packs. Oh I wasn't debating the rightness or wrongness of the thing. I have my views on it, and they aren't pertinent. I was just asking (regarding the idea to put the items on the TP as a solution), given what the law is and what it's trying to do (to the best of my understanding), wouldn't putting the 'forbidden' items (for lack of better term, using the term offered) on the TP, because of the RM-Gem exchange, be the exact same problem the law (again, right or wrong) is attempting to avoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"notebene.3190" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"notebene.3190" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > > > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > > > > > > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? > > > > This law is an inordinate amount of handholding by the state that stops people who don’t have a problem from buying items with an RNG base. There are a lot of things in life that’s RNG. Even those little dispensers where a kid put a dime in and gets a random trinket out is technically forbidden. This stops people from even buying the RNG mount purchases or from buying Dye packs. > > Oh I wasn't debating the rightness or wrongness of the thing. I have my views on it, and they aren't pertinent. I was just asking (regarding the idea to put the items on the TP as a solution), given what the law is and what it's trying to do (to the best of my understanding), wouldn't putting the 'forbidden' items (for lack of better term, using the term offered) on the TP, because of the RM-Gem exchange, be the exact same problem the law (again, right or wrong) is attempting to avoid? Saddly no, that would be a work around. The law at least my understanding of it is that it is aimed at ending gambling(lootboxes) in games(Or overall). You arent gambling if you pay money for gems then convert the gems to gold to buy the items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"notebene.3190" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"notebene.3190" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > > > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > > > > > > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? > > > > This law is an inordinate amount of handholding by the state that stops people who don’t have a problem from buying items with an RNG base. There are a lot of things in life that’s RNG. Even those little dispensers where a kid put a dime in and gets a random trinket out is technically forbidden. This stops people from even buying the RNG mount purchases or from buying Dye packs. > > Oh I wasn't debating the rightness or wrongness of the thing. I have my views on it, and they aren't pertinent. I was just asking (regarding the idea to put the items on the TP as a solution), given what the law is and what it's trying to do (to the best of my understanding), wouldn't putting the 'forbidden' items (for lack of better term, using the term offered) on the TP, because of the RM-Gem exchange, be the exact same problem the law (again, right or wrong) is attempting to avoid? We'll sort of but ectogambling is still allowed apperently so I don't know how the formulation goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"notebene.3190" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"notebene.3190" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Blanche Neige.7241" said: > > > > > > An easier solution : make what is forbidden to buy with real money in Belgium sellable/buyable on the trading post. > > > > > > > > > > This is one possibility that ANet might look into. Players would (probably) pay more for items but it would be accessible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (More of a direct reply to Blanche, but wanted to catch both of you with my question.) I'm pretty ignorant on the topic, so please forgive me if I say something completely off base, but isn't one of the reason a law like this exists to prevent companies from preying on people that are susceptible to gambling-type addictions? If that isn't the case, I digress, but it would seem if you put the forbidden items (those which can be purchased with real money and offer no guaranteed result) on the TP, then what is to stop someone from using all their gold to buy every last forbidden item, and then start spending real money to buy gems to then sell on the exchange for gold, and then use the gold to buy the forbidden items, until they are broke? > > > > > > This law is an inordinate amount of handholding by the state that stops people who don’t have a problem from buying items with an RNG base. There are a lot of things in life that’s RNG. Even those little dispensers where a kid put a dime in and gets a random trinket out is technically forbidden. This stops people from even buying the RNG mount purchases or from buying Dye packs. > > > > Oh I wasn't debating the rightness or wrongness of the thing. I have my views on it, and they aren't pertinent. I was just asking (regarding the idea to put the items on the TP as a solution), given what the law is and what it's trying to do (to the best of my understanding), wouldn't putting the 'forbidden' items (for lack of better term, using the term offered) on the TP, because of the RM-Gem exchange, be the exact same problem the law (again, right or wrong) is attempting to avoid? > > We'll sort of but ectogambling is still allowed apperently so I don't know how the formulation goes Ectogambling doesnt cost real money to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts