shadowpass.4236 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said > > > > > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > > > > > > > > > "Everyone who disagrees with me is dishonest." > > > > > > > > > > 1+1=2 ..if you disagree with me yeah you're being dishonest it's that simple > > > > > > > > Swagger is correct. > > > > > > > > If you make statements such as: > > > > > > > > 1. "it's one of those skills I would consider a noob tool which allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead." > > > > 2. "I just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class." > > > > > > > > You even explicitly detailed that you will ALWAYS advocate for their removal/change no matter the class. So, utilities/traits such as Portal, Self-Regulating Defenses, Shadow Trap, Defy Pain, Elusive Mind, etc. etc. should be nerfed heavily or removed from the game because they are either widely used, too effective, or a "noob tool that allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead." Personally, I have never viewed Moa Stance as a crutch, nor has it saved me from dying, unlike many of these other utilities/traits have. > > > > > > > > However, if you're arguing for the removal of "crutches," then argue for the removal of them all. > > > > > > Such non sense...go and make as many threads as you want..I am sure there will be people there defending their automode builds too...all this it's rather sad, same people defending the new cheese around while knowing it will be nerfed like the easy mode druid before, the perma boon build will be hit...because it's stupid design whether people like it or not. With this thread I have simply pointed out the main culprit..wasn't really looking for confirmation after all the rage posts here are confirmation enough of the truth > > > > It's actually kind of funny that you make threads like [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57289/list-of-simple-nerfs-that-would-fix-current-pvp) when you clearly have no idea what actually makes the current meta builds strong. > > > > By the way, there's a reason why no one is agreeing with anything you're saying. And no, it's not because you're the most reasonable of them all. Rather, it's blatantly obvious that you have a poor understanding of balance and game mechanics and what players actually struggle against when facing meta builds. > > > > So, to address your point about "easy-mode druid." It was nerfed because it had the capacity to one-shot multiple people while maintaining every boon permanently, having ridiculous mobility and stealth uptime, and having access to a full heal and condition wipe every 10 seconds. The current meta soulbeast build is no where near the level druid was at release. Also, the boonbeast build doesn't have permanent boon uptime. Instead, it has burst access to medium duration boons. It can maintain fury, might, and swiftness permanently. The rest cap out at 2/3 uptime max. > > > > And again, these "rage posts" are not confirmation that what you're speaking is the truth. It is just you getting extremely defensive when people point out that you're wrong. And, judging by how vindictive you are when criticized, you can't handle it. "Moa Stance is a crutch." Yeah... LOL because 5 seconds of protection and 10 seconds of fury and might with some swiftness and boon duration is going to stop you from dying. Ecks dee > > What makes meta builds strong are mechanics **which are supposed to be there in the first place** , a simple truth that you lot fail to understand, which is the truth of the whole MMO genre : you're not one man army and you're not supposed to win every fight. > > 1.Mesmer is supposed to be the best duellist..they have a whole traitline called just that, they were designed to be the **best** do you understand or not? > 2.Melee specs are supposed to be a huge threat..that's what melee means, sorry to break your bubble but wer're not playing a Skyrim mod. > > With that said, balance is still necessary to keep the whole thing going and **Moa stance** is one of those things sitting outside the spectrum and must be curbed down. > > "5s protection and 10s fury yeah lol..." so sad....you lot know the truth and most certainly the devs know as you will see soon enough but you...keep raging aways that will surely save your gimmick build "A simple truth that you lot fail to understand." Okay buddy. Let's go over some simple truths. 1. Mesmer is not even a side noder. Just because they have a traitline called "dueling" doesn't mean they should be the best at duels. It's just a name, nothing more. - They were designed to be the best? If this is the conclusion you draw solely due to the fact that they have a traitline called "dueling" you're extremely deluded. - They should not be the best at dueling when they have mobility on par with a thief, some of the highest burst/sustained damage in the game, and ridiculous utility as well. 2. Melee specs are supposed to be a huge threat according to who? - For the record, the definition of melee is, "close-combat." There's nothing stating anything about threat level. Of course with some exceptions, generally, ranged classes deal the most damage while melee classes tank. - Ranged specs in GW2 that are huge threats: scepter ele, glass cannon longbow soulbeast, deadeye, etc. etc. 3. Boon soulbeast builds aren't gimmicks. They aren't one-trick pony builds that apply boons and nothing else. Instead, they are well-balanced builds with decent sustained damage and good survivability. These builds are good in 1v1 situations and very bad in outnumbered fights. As with most builds, there are pros and cons... Soulbeast boon builds have very clear weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said > > > > > > > > > > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. And you’re the one being disingenuous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Protection uptime... There is boon removal. Boon corrupt. Vulnerability. Protection doesn’t offer defense to conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Regeneration... 1 tiny tick of poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are being dishonest because you lost to a ranger period. Change your build and practice. This isn’t a 1v1 game so be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More realistic? You're the one trying to make some sort of point based purely on assumptions...I lost to a ranger and made a "complain" thread..or that's what your mind tell you, ok but fantasy and reality are separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I were to look at your post history I would find something like this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “Currently this trait in particular https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Heart is being "abused" freely by 8 elementalists out of 10 using any elementalist build, it's one of those skills I would consider a noob tool which allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not really asking for any hard nerf, maybe something like 40-45s CD or I'd say 40s with a duration of 6s like all other skills. Nothing really on the same levels of mirage condi or scourge condi spam but something still really annoying to deal with, not really fun or challenging to face because the opponent just uses a trait and a main hand weapon attuned to earth with no real tactic in mind other than to keep perma defense against all critical damage.” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, the devs created counters to “stuff”. This isn’t a 1v1 game. Be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would find several nerf ele thread yes but the most recent one is : "main reason why current ele should not be buffed"...yes I am realistic and there is some difference between boon heavy build and perma boons..the latter is not healthy for the game and seen how chrono was nerfed in pve, it's safe to assume that the devs thinks so too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But have YOU have actively called for a nerf to stone heart? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you also have issues with Perma buffs from Revenant builds? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...The devs have created counters to things, look them up and use them. Raids are built for 10 players. Spvp is built for 5v5. WvW mass mobs... You are clearly making this about a 1v1 issue, so if you want to go down this road then we better start complaining about a ton of skills, traits and utilities from every profession... > > > > > > > > > > > > How can you nerf something nobody uses?...come and tell me, now stop with this 1v1 crap and scenario you created in your own mind as I have enough of it. Made a suggestion to balance one utility and I don't know how that would affect your 1vs1 universe > > > > > > > > > > Why are you dodging those questions? > > > > > > > > Those are not questions...want to nerf a trait nobody uses anymore since 2014...as ele been off meta pvps for the last 2.5 years and then want to compare a mere 25 might to perma regen/protection/...everything if use WHAO+NM+moa stance + fresh reinforcement and plasma. > > > > > > > > Yeah pls jump on ele and use stone heart and come playing with me while streaming..we'll have a good laughter > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the questions... > > > > > > If your issue is with "8 of 10 noob tools" then we better start nerfing a ton of stuff... How about you and I look at every buff in the game and rally to change them all to 40s cooldown with a 6s duration? Ya know, stuff more "balanced" for side node duels in spvp? > > > > > > Seeing that you "just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class." then I'm sure you will be on board? > > > > This is absurd argumentation...go on and make your thread where you ask to nerf stone heart or whatever, meanwhile here I am talking about a single utility on ranger...don't derail the thread with non-sense > > No, it's actually pretty valid. You have issues with high uptime and perma boons, and clearly stated that you will advocate for removal/ change on any class, so let's do it. You are only pointing to ranger here, but you full well know that perma buffs are not limited to ranger... There are a ton of sources for protection, might, fury, stability, regen, "noob tool" passives... so let's go all in, not be selective... You are concerned with "balance" right? you're using petty call outs of character to try and dismiss his point. pathetic. instead of engaging in discussion of moa stance you try to bring up something irrelevant in another thread from another time. what have you contributed? nothing. we say moastance is OP, you just say well boons are easy to counter, ranger is bad overall cus this and that. to achieve balance we need to take 1 step at a time. moastance is a good place to start. just because this guy isn't mentioning every problem on every class doesn't mean he's not concerned about balance. for the record, dropping 25 stacks of vulnerability is not as easy as popping moa stance. or just dodging.. not to mention rangers built-in condi removal.. I mean cmon. that's just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. And you’re the one being disingenuous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Protection uptime... There is boon removal. Boon corrupt. Vulnerability. Protection doesn’t offer defense to conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Regeneration... 1 tiny tick of poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are being dishonest because you lost to a ranger period. Change your build and practice. This isn’t a 1v1 game so be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More realistic? You're the one trying to make some sort of point based purely on assumptions...I lost to a ranger and made a "complain" thread..or that's what your mind tell you, ok but fantasy and reality are separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I were to look at your post history I would find something like this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “Currently this trait in particular https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Heart is being "abused" freely by 8 elementalists out of 10 using any elementalist build, it's one of those skills I would consider a noob tool which allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not really asking for any hard nerf, maybe something like 40-45s CD or I'd say 40s with a duration of 6s like all other skills. Nothing really on the same levels of mirage condi or scourge condi spam but something still really annoying to deal with, not really fun or challenging to face because the opponent just uses a trait and a main hand weapon attuned to earth with no real tactic in mind other than to keep perma defense against all critical damage.” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, the devs created counters to “stuff”. This isn’t a 1v1 game. Be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would find several nerf ele thread yes but the most recent one is : "main reason why current ele should not be buffed"...yes I am realistic and there is some difference between boon heavy build and perma boons..the latter is not healthy for the game and seen how chrono was nerfed in pve, it's safe to assume that the devs thinks so too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But have YOU have actively called for a nerf to stone heart? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you also have issues with Perma buffs from Revenant builds? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...The devs have created counters to things, look them up and use them. Raids are built for 10 players. Spvp is built for 5v5. WvW mass mobs... You are clearly making this about a 1v1 issue, so if you want to go down this road then we better start complaining about a ton of skills, traits and utilities from every profession... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can you nerf something nobody uses?...come and tell me, now stop with this 1v1 crap and scenario you created in your own mind as I have enough of it. Made a suggestion to balance one utility and I don't know how that would affect your 1vs1 universe > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you dodging those questions? > > > > > > > > > > Those are not questions...want to nerf a trait nobody uses anymore since 2014...as ele been off meta pvps for the last 2.5 years and then want to compare a mere 25 might to perma regen/protection/...everything if use WHAO+NM+moa stance + fresh reinforcement and plasma. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah pls jump on ele and use stone heart and come playing with me while streaming..we'll have a good laughter > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the questions... > > > > > > > > If your issue is with "8 of 10 noob tools" then we better start nerfing a ton of stuff... How about you and I look at every buff in the game and rally to change them all to 40s cooldown with a 6s duration? Ya know, stuff more "balanced" for side node duels in spvp? > > > > > > > > Seeing that you "just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class." then I'm sure you will be on board? > > > > > > This is absurd argumentation...go on and make your thread where you ask to nerf stone heart or whatever, meanwhile here I am talking about a single utility on ranger...don't derail the thread with non-sense > > > > No, it's actually pretty valid. You have issues with high uptime and perma boons, and clearly stated that you will advocate for removal/ change on any class, so let's do it. You are only pointing to ranger here, but you full well know that perma buffs are not limited to ranger... There are a ton of sources for protection, might, fury, stability, regen, "noob tool" passives... so let's go all in, not be selective... You are concerned with "balance" right? > > you're using petty call outs of character to try and dismiss his point. pathetic. instead of engaging in discussion of moa stance you try to bring up something irrelevant in another thread from another time. > > what have you contributed? nothing. we say moastance is OP, you just say well boons are easy to counter, ranger is bad overall cus this and that. to achieve balance we need to take 1 step at a time. moastance is a good place to start. just because this guy isn't mentioning every problem on every class doesn't mean he's not concerned about balance. > > for the record, dropping 25 stacks of vulnerability is not as easy as popping moa stance. or just dodging.. not to mention rangers built-in condi removal.. I mean cmon. that's just plain wrong. I provided a bunch of relevant feedback and points. Why don’t you read the thread instead of posting on emotion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. And you’re the one being disingenuous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Protection uptime... There is boon removal. Boon corrupt. Vulnerability. Protection doesn’t offer defense to conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Regeneration... 1 tiny tick of poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are being dishonest because you lost to a ranger period. Change your build and practice. This isn’t a 1v1 game so be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More realistic? You're the one trying to make some sort of point based purely on assumptions...I lost to a ranger and made a "complain" thread..or that's what your mind tell you, ok but fantasy and reality are separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I were to look at your post history I would find something like this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “Currently this trait in particular https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Heart is being "abused" freely by 8 elementalists out of 10 using any elementalist build, it's one of those skills I would consider a noob tool which allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not really asking for any hard nerf, maybe something like 40-45s CD or I'd say 40s with a duration of 6s like all other skills. Nothing really on the same levels of mirage condi or scourge condi spam but something still really annoying to deal with, not really fun or challenging to face because the opponent just uses a trait and a main hand weapon attuned to earth with no real tactic in mind other than to keep perma defense against all critical damage.” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, the devs created counters to “stuff”. This isn’t a 1v1 game. Be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would find several nerf ele thread yes but the most recent one is : "main reason why current ele should not be buffed"...yes I am realistic and there is some difference between boon heavy build and perma boons..the latter is not healthy for the game and seen how chrono was nerfed in pve, it's safe to assume that the devs thinks so too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But have YOU have actively called for a nerf to stone heart? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you also have issues with Perma buffs from Revenant builds? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...The devs have created counters to things, look them up and use them. Raids are built for 10 players. Spvp is built for 5v5. WvW mass mobs... You are clearly making this about a 1v1 issue, so if you want to go down this road then we better start complaining about a ton of skills, traits and utilities from every profession... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can you nerf something nobody uses?...come and tell me, now stop with this 1v1 crap and scenario you created in your own mind as I have enough of it. Made a suggestion to balance one utility and I don't know how that would affect your 1vs1 universe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you dodging those questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not questions...want to nerf a trait nobody uses anymore since 2014...as ele been off meta pvps for the last 2.5 years and then want to compare a mere 25 might to perma regen/protection/...everything if use WHAO+NM+moa stance + fresh reinforcement and plasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah pls jump on ele and use stone heart and come playing with me while streaming..we'll have a good laughter > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the questions... > > > > > > > > > > If your issue is with "8 of 10 noob tools" then we better start nerfing a ton of stuff... How about you and I look at every buff in the game and rally to change them all to 40s cooldown with a 6s duration? Ya know, stuff more "balanced" for side node duels in spvp? > > > > > > > > > > Seeing that you "just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class." then I'm sure you will be on board? > > > > > > > > This is absurd argumentation...go on and make your thread where you ask to nerf stone heart or whatever, meanwhile here I am talking about a single utility on ranger...don't derail the thread with non-sense > > > > > > No, it's actually pretty valid. You have issues with high uptime and perma boons, and clearly stated that you will advocate for removal/ change on any class, so let's do it. You are only pointing to ranger here, but you full well know that perma buffs are not limited to ranger... There are a ton of sources for protection, might, fury, stability, regen, "noob tool" passives... so let's go all in, not be selective... You are concerned with "balance" right? > > > > you're using petty call outs of character to try and dismiss his point. pathetic. instead of engaging in discussion of moa stance you try to bring up something irrelevant in another thread from another time. > > > > what have you contributed? nothing. we say moastance is OP, you just say well boons are easy to counter, ranger is bad overall cus this and that. to achieve balance we need to take 1 step at a time. moastance is a good place to start. just because this guy isn't mentioning every problem on every class doesn't mean he's not concerned about balance. > > > > for the record, dropping 25 stacks of vulnerability is not as easy as popping moa stance. or just dodging.. not to mention rangers built-in condi removal.. I mean cmon. that's just plain wrong. > > I provided a bunch of relevant feedback and points. Why don’t you read the thread instead of posting on emotion... my point is: stick to the discussion of the thread instead of talking about something someone else said some other time in some other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. And you’re the one being disingenuous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Protection uptime... There is boon removal. Boon corrupt. Vulnerability. Protection doesn’t offer defense to conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain about Regeneration... 1 tiny tick of poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are being dishonest because you lost to a ranger period. Change your build and practice. This isn’t a 1v1 game so be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More realistic? You're the one trying to make some sort of point based purely on assumptions...I lost to a ranger and made a "complain" thread..or that's what your mind tell you, ok but fantasy and reality are separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I were to look at your post history I would find something like this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “Currently this trait in particular https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Heart is being "abused" freely by 8 elementalists out of 10 using any elementalist build, it's one of those skills I would consider a noob tool which allows players to outlive situations where they should be clearly dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not really asking for any hard nerf, maybe something like 40-45s CD or I'd say 40s with a duration of 6s like all other skills. Nothing really on the same levels of mirage condi or scourge condi spam but something still really annoying to deal with, not really fun or challenging to face because the opponent just uses a trait and a main hand weapon attuned to earth with no real tactic in mind other than to keep perma defense against all critical damage.” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, the devs created counters to “stuff”. This isn’t a 1v1 game. Be more realistic with your complaints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would find several nerf ele thread yes but the most recent one is : "main reason why current ele should not be buffed"...yes I am realistic and there is some difference between boon heavy build and perma boons..the latter is not healthy for the game and seen how chrono was nerfed in pve, it's safe to assume that the devs thinks so too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But have YOU have actively called for a nerf to stone heart? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you also have issues with Perma buffs from Revenant builds? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...The devs have created counters to things, look them up and use them. Raids are built for 10 players. Spvp is built for 5v5. WvW mass mobs... You are clearly making this about a 1v1 issue, so if you want to go down this road then we better start complaining about a ton of skills, traits and utilities from every profession... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can you nerf something nobody uses?...come and tell me, now stop with this 1v1 crap and scenario you created in your own mind as I have enough of it. Made a suggestion to balance one utility and I don't know how that would affect your 1vs1 universe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you dodging those questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not questions...want to nerf a trait nobody uses anymore since 2014...as ele been off meta pvps for the last 2.5 years and then want to compare a mere 25 might to perma regen/protection/...everything if use WHAO+NM+moa stance + fresh reinforcement and plasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah pls jump on ele and use stone heart and come playing with me while streaming..we'll have a good laughter > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the questions... > > > > > > > > > > > > If your issue is with "8 of 10 noob tools" then we better start nerfing a ton of stuff... How about you and I look at every buff in the game and rally to change them all to 40s cooldown with a 6s duration? Ya know, stuff more "balanced" for side node duels in spvp? > > > > > > > > > > > > Seeing that you "just hate this kind of crutch skill/utility/trait and I will always advocate for their removal/change no matter the class." then I'm sure you will be on board? > > > > > > > > > > This is absurd argumentation...go on and make your thread where you ask to nerf stone heart or whatever, meanwhile here I am talking about a single utility on ranger...don't derail the thread with non-sense > > > > > > > > No, it's actually pretty valid. You have issues with high uptime and perma boons, and clearly stated that you will advocate for removal/ change on any class, so let's do it. You are only pointing to ranger here, but you full well know that perma buffs are not limited to ranger... There are a ton of sources for protection, might, fury, stability, regen, "noob tool" passives... so let's go all in, not be selective... You are concerned with "balance" right? > > > > > > you're using petty call outs of character to try and dismiss his point. pathetic. instead of engaging in discussion of moa stance you try to bring up something irrelevant in another thread from another time. > > > > > > what have you contributed? nothing. we say moastance is OP, you just say well boons are easy to counter, ranger is bad overall cus this and that. to achieve balance we need to take 1 step at a time. moastance is a good place to start. just because this guy isn't mentioning every problem on every class doesn't mean he's not concerned about balance. > > > > > > for the record, dropping 25 stacks of vulnerability is not as easy as popping moa stance. or just dodging.. not to mention rangers built-in condi removal.. I mean cmon. that's just plain wrong. > > > > I provided a bunch of relevant feedback and points. Why don’t you read the thread instead of posting on emotion... > > my point is: stick to the discussion of the thread instead of talking about something someone else said some other time in some other thread. It's not my problem if you can't see the relevance in my posts. Have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 > @"GUFF.5692" said: > Very disappointing to see fellow rangers actually advocating for nerfs to our own class. I have zero doubt there will be nerfs to SB in the future. It is not for the first time when something like that happened. The same was with Druid. You can scroll down the Ranger forum, and you will see how many posts are for nerfing Druid. You'll never found so many on other classes forum. We like to beat ourselves, to nerf ourselves, just because we are ... (you know the word). And? the results : Druid was so nerfed that now you can beat them with almost all classes. Like I said before, I didn't play Druid after Soulbeast was introduced in the game, still I didn't ask to nerf druid ... in fact I fought for not doing. For @"Arheundel.6451" , I can beat any ranger who use Moa Stance instead of other mandatory or useful skill. Maybe in a group fight it counts, but in 1 vs 1 or WvW roaming, I will not spare my Dolyak, Lightning Reflexes or Quickening Zephyr/Sic'Em for Moa Stance. Anyway, good luck with the nerf ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 > @"InsaneQR.7412" said: > Personally i think it does way to many things. It gives prot regen, fury and swiftness. > I think the regen and fury should be put elsewhere. > CD in line with all other stances and duration too. > Fury on the elite. Regen on heal. > That would bring it in line with the rest. No, leave the fury alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... > > I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. > > I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. > > you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. > > my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. There are several different types of boon soulbeast builds. The one you're mentioning (with an abundance of stealth, superspeed, and evades) probably isn't the meta build. The current meta build does NOT use: 1. Longbow or smokescale for stealth 2. Quickening Zephyr or Zephyr's Speed for superspeed (or even beastmastery for that matter) Of course, evades are personal preference depending on weapons. As for permanent boons, that requires either several plasmas in a row with moa stance or nature magic + beastmastery in the same build. However, the boon uptimes you mentioned _do_ make sense with moa stance as your only source of boon duration. Even then, conversion holo can maintain most boons indefinitely with very little investment in boon duration so if you're comparing boon uptimes, holo wins. Also, I wouldn't say this build completely annihilates everything except condi mirage. The bunker soulbeast build wins fights through sustained pressure. Any build that has enough survivability to trade autos and dodge the one burst we have access to will stalemate it. We have good matchups because we have good sustain, however, we can only kill if the enemy doesn't avoid a very telegraphed burst setup. Lastly, I would choose removing the initial boons on Moa Stance rather than sacrificing boon duration. If it was only 33% additional duration, people won't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > > > > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > > > > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > > > > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > > > > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > > > > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... > > > > I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. > > > > I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. > > > > you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. > > > > my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. > > There are several different types of boon soulbeast builds. The one you're mentioning (with an abundance of stealth, superspeed, and evades) probably isn't the meta build. The current meta build does NOT use: > > 1. Longbow or smokescale for stealth > 2. Quickening Zephyr or Zephyr's Speed for superspeed (or even beastmastery for that matter) > > Of course, evades are personal preference depending on weapons. > > As for permanent boons, that requires either several plasmas in a row with moa stance or nature magic + beastmastery in the same build. However, the boon uptimes you mentioned _do_ make sense with moa stance as your only source of boon duration. Even then, conversion holo can maintain most boons indefinitely with very little investment in boon duration so if you're comparing boon uptimes, holo wins. > > Also, I wouldn't say this build completely annihilates everything except condi mirage. The bunker soulbeast build wins fights through sustained pressure. Any build that has enough survivability to trade autos and dodge the one burst we have access to will stalemate it. We have good matchups because we have good sustain, however, we can only kill if the enemy doesn't avoid a very telegraphed burst setup. > > Lastly, I would choose removing the initial boons on Moa Stance rather than sacrificing boon duration. If it was only 33% additional duration, people won't use it. well in my personal opinion and experience the boonbeast build with axe and pet pig is not actually all that good. longbow tends to win the node decap game and although the boonbeast build will survive due to higher sustain ( usually paladins amulet ) they aren't able to deal enough sustained dmg to me and as long as I can dodge their axe 3 and 5 I'm hardly going to take any dmg. then the fight basically depends on who can force the other off the point first.. and pbs can help with that a lot. greatsword is also a better melee setup than axe because you have a knock back, a stun/daze and better dmg. perhaps it's better at sustaining at nodes against other classes and builds but idk.. I don't really think that particular build is the only viable one in spvp, even top tier play. and yes I too would be ok with removing the boons on moastance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > > > > > > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > > > > > > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > > > > > > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > > > > > > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > > > > > > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... > > > > > > I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. > > > > > > I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. > > > > > > you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. > > > > > > my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. > > > > There are several different types of boon soulbeast builds. The one you're mentioning (with an abundance of stealth, superspeed, and evades) probably isn't the meta build. The current meta build does NOT use: > > > > 1. Longbow or smokescale for stealth > > 2. Quickening Zephyr or Zephyr's Speed for superspeed (or even beastmastery for that matter) > > > > Of course, evades are personal preference depending on weapons. > > > > As for permanent boons, that requires either several plasmas in a row with moa stance or nature magic + beastmastery in the same build. However, the boon uptimes you mentioned _do_ make sense with moa stance as your only source of boon duration. Even then, conversion holo can maintain most boons indefinitely with very little investment in boon duration so if you're comparing boon uptimes, holo wins. > > > > Also, I wouldn't say this build completely annihilates everything except condi mirage. The bunker soulbeast build wins fights through sustained pressure. Any build that has enough survivability to trade autos and dodge the one burst we have access to will stalemate it. We have good matchups because we have good sustain, however, we can only kill if the enemy doesn't avoid a very telegraphed burst setup. > > > > Lastly, I would choose removing the initial boons on Moa Stance rather than sacrificing boon duration. If it was only 33% additional duration, people won't use it. > > well in my personal opinion and experience the boonbeast build with axe and pet pig is not actually all that good. longbow tends to win the node decap game and although the boonbeast build will survive due to higher sustain ( usually paladins amulet ) they aren't able to deal enough sustained dmg to me and as long as I can dodge their axe 3 and 5 I'm hardly going to take any dmg. > > then the fight basically depends on who can force the other off the point first.. and pbs can help with that a lot. > > greatsword is also a better melee setup than axe because you have a knock back, a stun/daze and better dmg. perhaps it's better at sustaining at nodes against other classes and builds but idk.. I don't really think that particular build is the only viable one in spvp, even top tier play. > > and yes I too would be ok with removing the boons on moastance. For me, personally, my variation of the boonbeast build is probably the strongest ranger build atm. However, the normal metabattle version is decent and (while still having decent matchups) has a much tougher time actually killing things. As for longbow... I've played the weapon since release and although it's one of my favorite weapons (the other being greatsword), unfortunately, it has a very hard time dealing with holo and to a lesser extent mirage. Longbow is fantastic against warriors though. In a soulbeast vs soulbeast matchup where one is using the axe build and one is longbow, the axe build should technically win that. I know I would be able to dodge the point blank shot every time if I'm paying attention and I would also be able to force you off node because I know how to pressure you back very hard. To address your point for top tier ranger builds. The axe soulbeast build is currently the _only_ ranger build viable in competitive play. Longbow gets shut down extremely hard by holosmiths, the class you'll be fighting the most on the side nodes. Longbow is bad against holos because: 1. They get stab off your pet so your knockback does nothing. 2. Lock On reveals you when they hit you in stealth. 3. Their Photon Force autos out-trade you very, very hard when in longbow. 4. Your other weapon set won't be enough to deal with the rest of their kit alone. Longbow is bad against mirages because: 1. Constant target break and ranged interrupts make it impossible to actually land a full rapid fire. 2. Knockback is useless against Elusive Mind and dodging while cc'd because you can't set up any bursts with it. They can also bodyblock with a clone. 3. Blinds make it very, very hard to get our stealth/knockback off. A random blind can screw you over for a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > > > > > > > > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > > > > > > > > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > > > > > > > > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > > > > > > > > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > > > > > > > > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... > > > > > > > > I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. > > > > > > > > I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. > > > > > > > > you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. > > > > > > There are several different types of boon soulbeast builds. The one you're mentioning (with an abundance of stealth, superspeed, and evades) probably isn't the meta build. The current meta build does NOT use: > > > > > > 1. Longbow or smokescale for stealth > > > 2. Quickening Zephyr or Zephyr's Speed for superspeed (or even beastmastery for that matter) > > > > > > Of course, evades are personal preference depending on weapons. > > > > > > As for permanent boons, that requires either several plasmas in a row with moa stance or nature magic + beastmastery in the same build. However, the boon uptimes you mentioned _do_ make sense with moa stance as your only source of boon duration. Even then, conversion holo can maintain most boons indefinitely with very little investment in boon duration so if you're comparing boon uptimes, holo wins. > > > > > > Also, I wouldn't say this build completely annihilates everything except condi mirage. The bunker soulbeast build wins fights through sustained pressure. Any build that has enough survivability to trade autos and dodge the one burst we have access to will stalemate it. We have good matchups because we have good sustain, however, we can only kill if the enemy doesn't avoid a very telegraphed burst setup. > > > > > > Lastly, I would choose removing the initial boons on Moa Stance rather than sacrificing boon duration. If it was only 33% additional duration, people won't use it. > > > > well in my personal opinion and experience the boonbeast build with axe and pet pig is not actually all that good. longbow tends to win the node decap game and although the boonbeast build will survive due to higher sustain ( usually paladins amulet ) they aren't able to deal enough sustained dmg to me and as long as I can dodge their axe 3 and 5 I'm hardly going to take any dmg. > > > > then the fight basically depends on who can force the other off the point first.. and pbs can help with that a lot. > > > > greatsword is also a better melee setup than axe because you have a knock back, a stun/daze and better dmg. perhaps it's better at sustaining at nodes against other classes and builds but idk.. I don't really think that particular build is the only viable one in spvp, even top tier play. > > > > and yes I too would be ok with removing the boons on moastance. > > For me, personally, my variation of the boonbeast build is probably the strongest ranger build atm. However, the normal metabattle version is decent and (while still having decent matchups) has a much tougher time actually killing things. > > As for longbow... I've played the weapon since release and although it's one of my favorite weapons (the other being greatsword), unfortunately, it has a very hard time dealing with holo and to a lesser extent mirage. Longbow is fantastic against warriors though. > > In a soulbeast vs soulbeast matchup where one is using the axe build and one is longbow, the axe build should technically win that. I know I would be able to dodge the point blank shot every time if I'm paying attention and I would also be able to force you off node because I know how to pressure you back very hard. > > To address your point for top tier ranger builds. The axe soulbeast build is currently the _only_ ranger build viable in competitive play. Longbow gets shut down extremely hard by holosmiths, the class you'll be fighting the most on the side nodes. > > Longbow is bad against holos because: > > 1. They get stab off your pet so your knockback does nothing. > 2. Lock On reveals you when they hit you in stealth. > 3. Their Photon Force autos out-trade you very, very hard when in longbow. > 4. Your other weapon set won't be enough to deal with the rest of their kit alone. > > Longbow is bad against mirages because: > > 1. Constant target break and ranged interrupts make it impossible to actually land a full rapid fire. > 2. Knockback is useless against Elusive Mind and dodging while cc'd because you can't set up any bursts with it. They can also bodyblock with a clone. > 3. Blinds make it very, very hard to get our stealth/knockback off. A random blind can screw you over for a few seconds. yea definitely true what you say about holo and mirage if you take nodes into account. If I know I can't win on point I tend to kite around it though.. and in that case I think it's a little bit different. lb can be very good to deal damage to mirages unless they have their port ready to jump to you instantly and pull off their combos. but if they don't have it ready a good rf can be very effective. also barrage is nice to place on point before you swap to gs for good aoe dmg etc. against holo I try to stay on gs as much as possible and when they run out of stab I swap, pbs etc. it's also quite neat to CC holos with after they use invul elixir thingy. but again, those two classes certainly win the fight if you fight only on point, that is very true. although a lot of the time I don't see players fighting strictly on point unless one of the playerd are expecting backup... oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > Really the soulboon build is certainly on anet radar and will be nerfed in the near future, getting annoyed at me won't change that, I have suggested in this thread what could be changed to tone it down, people should make their own thread listing what should be nerfed about soulboon because make no mistakes it will be nerfed and let this be the end of this thread > > > > > > > > > > > > What I find interesting is that you say rangers are useless in wvw and acknowledge that being in melee fights has some hardships... but you are having trouble with things that have clear counters? > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like your post here is nothing more than an emotional response. Had you looked up counters, and actually tried adjusting your build and play style, you might get a different feeling. > > > > > > > > > > > > I get your perspective now because you’ve talked about “honor” or “honor bound” before, so I’m pretty convinced this is a 1v1 issue for you... Sorry to say, though, the game isn’t “honor” wars 2, and that this game has various modes built for teams of 5 and up. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you can’t work with the counters coded by the devs then there is no hope for you to shed some simple learning curves. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit- I suggest you start asking for help, and posting your build for review, before you start asking for future nerfs... > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna have to step in and defend arheundel. > > > > > > > > > > I main ranger and I'm abusing the boon duration builds. permanent swift, regen, protection and fury. 2/3 uptime quickness, about 50% uptime of 25 might stacks. that and I'm ( courtesy of shadowpass ) not even running any boon duration stats other than my rune. does this sound balanced to you? is it fair and ok that this build can utterly annihilate everything that isn't a Condi mirage? I don't think so. and this is all due to moa stance. so even though I'm benefitting from moastance I DO think it's overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > you could say ohh but it's weak in outnumbered fights.. well not really. you have access to a lot of stealth, superspeed and evades that can help you sustain yourself in an outnumbered fight. sure it's not as long as spellbreaker, but spellbreaker isn't as strong in small fights as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > my suggestion would be to either remove the boons that moastance gives you so it's only the 66% effect but no boons on use, OR increase boons given by 1-2 sec, but reduce effectiveness by 33%. this way you can decrease protection uptime a little bit as well as other things. > > > > > > > > There are several different types of boon soulbeast builds. The one you're mentioning (with an abundance of stealth, superspeed, and evades) probably isn't the meta build. The current meta build does NOT use: > > > > > > > > 1. Longbow or smokescale for stealth > > > > 2. Quickening Zephyr or Zephyr's Speed for superspeed (or even beastmastery for that matter) > > > > > > > > Of course, evades are personal preference depending on weapons. > > > > > > > > As for permanent boons, that requires either several plasmas in a row with moa stance or nature magic + beastmastery in the same build. However, the boon uptimes you mentioned _do_ make sense with moa stance as your only source of boon duration. Even then, conversion holo can maintain most boons indefinitely with very little investment in boon duration so if you're comparing boon uptimes, holo wins. > > > > > > > > Also, I wouldn't say this build completely annihilates everything except condi mirage. The bunker soulbeast build wins fights through sustained pressure. Any build that has enough survivability to trade autos and dodge the one burst we have access to will stalemate it. We have good matchups because we have good sustain, however, we can only kill if the enemy doesn't avoid a very telegraphed burst setup. > > > > > > > > Lastly, I would choose removing the initial boons on Moa Stance rather than sacrificing boon duration. If it was only 33% additional duration, people won't use it. > > > > > > well in my personal opinion and experience the boonbeast build with axe and pet pig is not actually all that good. longbow tends to win the node decap game and although the boonbeast build will survive due to higher sustain ( usually paladins amulet ) they aren't able to deal enough sustained dmg to me and as long as I can dodge their axe 3 and 5 I'm hardly going to take any dmg. > > > > > > then the fight basically depends on who can force the other off the point first.. and pbs can help with that a lot. > > > > > > greatsword is also a better melee setup than axe because you have a knock back, a stun/daze and better dmg. perhaps it's better at sustaining at nodes against other classes and builds but idk.. I don't really think that particular build is the only viable one in spvp, even top tier play. > > > > > > and yes I too would be ok with removing the boons on moastance. > > > > For me, personally, my variation of the boonbeast build is probably the strongest ranger build atm. However, the normal metabattle version is decent and (while still having decent matchups) has a much tougher time actually killing things. > > > > As for longbow... I've played the weapon since release and although it's one of my favorite weapons (the other being greatsword), unfortunately, it has a very hard time dealing with holo and to a lesser extent mirage. Longbow is fantastic against warriors though. > > > > In a soulbeast vs soulbeast matchup where one is using the axe build and one is longbow, the axe build should technically win that. I know I would be able to dodge the point blank shot every time if I'm paying attention and I would also be able to force you off node because I know how to pressure you back very hard. > > > > To address your point for top tier ranger builds. The axe soulbeast build is currently the _only_ ranger build viable in competitive play. Longbow gets shut down extremely hard by holosmiths, the class you'll be fighting the most on the side nodes. > > > > Longbow is bad against holos because: > > > > 1. They get stab off your pet so your knockback does nothing. > > 2. Lock On reveals you when they hit you in stealth. > > 3. Their Photon Force autos out-trade you very, very hard when in longbow. > > 4. Your other weapon set won't be enough to deal with the rest of their kit alone. > > > > Longbow is bad against mirages because: > > > > 1. Constant target break and ranged interrupts make it impossible to actually land a full rapid fire. > > 2. Knockback is useless against Elusive Mind and dodging while cc'd because you can't set up any bursts with it. They can also bodyblock with a clone. > > 3. Blinds make it very, very hard to get our stealth/knockback off. A random blind can screw you over for a few seconds. > > 1. yea definitely true what you say about holo and mirage if you take nodes into account. If I know I can't win on point I tend to kite around it though.. and in that case I think it's a little bit different. lb can be very good to deal damage to mirages unless they have their port ready to jump to you instantly and pull off their combos. but if they don't have it ready a good rf can be very effective. also barrage is nice to place on point before you swap to gs for good aoe dmg etc. > > 2. against holo I try to stay on gs as much as possible and when they run out of stab I swap, pbs etc. it's also quite neat to CC holos with after they use invul elixir thingy. > > 3. but again, those two classes certainly win the fight if you fight only on point, that is very true. although a lot of the time I don't see players fighting strictly on point unless one of the playerd are expecting backup... oh well. 1. Yup. You pretty much summed it up. As for barrage though, you have to learn how to use it properly. NEVER use barrage if you're pressured as it prevents you from entering stealth. I will only use barrage on point if I know for sure I won't need to stealth AND the other player can't hit me. Most of the time, I'll save barrage for when an enemy goes behind LoS in order to keep applying pressure and potentially force them out. 2. Mhm. On lb/gs, that's what you have to do. Unfortunately, a good holo will still be able to kill you with this strategy. I've practiced this matchup a lot. There's probably less than a 10% chance of you winning on the node against a holo when you're using lb/gs. 3. Correct again. At top tier, both side noders have backup in the form of their thief plussing. So, most fights do take place (and remain) on node. This is also why the axe soulbeast build is meta. Currently, it is the only build that can stand on point against a holo and potentially win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"jcbroe.4329" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > > > I like moa stance. It's a skill that seems a bit meh but actually can find its way into various builds, be it boons or power. > > > > > > > > That said > > > > From experience i expect a nerf from 66% boon duration to 33% because anet always starts at 66 then brings it down to 33 if it turns out to be good. > > > > Traited 15 seconds of moa stance is a bit insane. I predict the duration will be cut at some point > > > > > > > > I wont mind nerfs to moa as long as they dont make it another griffon stance. If you cut it too hard (by itself it's only a few boons + duration increase) it'll become useless and forgotten. > > > > > > It's extremely rare to find honest players these days..my hat to you but...you're like 1 out of 100 so the whole situation remain bleak > > > > Situation remains bleak? Nobody here is an ANet developer, and the devs don't care what anyone in this thread thinks. > > > > They'll just keep down the path of "nerf a pet, nerf a trait, buff something nobody will use anyway, and leave Axe split between gamemodes" until GW3 or GW dies. > > > > But yeah, why are you even remotely concerned with what anybody here thinks? You're in a biased subclass forum asking for nerfs against that subclass where no developer will ever see the discussion, and even if they did, they wouldn't care about the amount of agreement or disagreement within the topic, they'd still do whatever they want and ignore all of the issues that have been introduced to the game's balance since HoT dropped. > > They are issue with balance...and ranger doesn't suffer from any of it...**but you need to play other classes too to recognize that** , you are in no position to complain about balance: > > - not a single weapon set left unused > - not a single traitline left unused > > And you dare to complain about balance instead than kissing **@Irenio's feets** , go and play elementalist or a revenant then come back and complain to me again about balance please! I dare you to do so! > > I have the highest win rate on ranger out of all classes, I can carry games hard as hell on a ranger, **I can fight meta specs with a core ranger for god's sake**, don't you dare to complain about balance while using a ranger! DON'T! > > P.S before you try to go there..I spent close to 3k hrs on ranger over the last 3 years so even before HoT I was ranger....I can prove it if you want and I really love the class, got legendary everything on ranger toon...but I played other classes just as much and that's why I can have a far less biased perspective compared to you lot ...what? Are you okay? I didn't disagree with you, at all. All I said was that you should try not to get so worked up so you don't end up spewing out illogical nonsense, case and point being whatever this is. You started a good discussion and there are multiple sides. The whole game is in serious need of a rebalancing, since HoT, as mentioned, where ANet decided they were going to introduce power creep and barely ever fix or touch the rocky, obsolete core traitlines and weapons elite specs were being built on. Also....you know that balance doesn't just imply nerfing, right? It's about choosing a baseline performance level and then bringing up or knocking down overperforming and underperforming outliers to approach that performance baseline while maintaining diverse and unique functionality for the sake of flavor. Just....take it easy man. Not everybody that responds with you tagged is automatically disagreeing with you. I think I saw awhile back you had made a "Core only" playlist suggestion or something, unless I'm mistaken. Personally, I'd love for the game to be stripped back down to the base game and have every traitline and weapon redesigned to be more fluid and use the newest technologies, then rebuild the elite specs on top of it as functional sidegrades to round the core classes out instead of direct upgrades that make the core classes irrelevant. It'll never happen because of money though, but the entire game is bloated by power creep to the point where it isn't even worth getting worked up over or taking anything about it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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