MESMER-ELUSIVE MIND NERF- Are you Happy now?

[meri.9187]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I predicted that Mirage would suffer a crippling nerf.. just as Chronomancer did , PU.... condition builds relying on clone death.... Glamour builds. **I was right.**

>

> Every class will receive nerfs in the future. It's not that hard to predict.

>

> On another note, the EM nerf just means that there is a heavy incentive to dodge the cc before it hits you rather than after. Which, of course, is how it should have been at the start.

>

> Either way, dodging while cc'd shouldn't exist and neither should a stunbreak on dodge. I also do not like the exhaustion mechanic. Instead, I would rather just remove the stunbreak on dodge portion of EM, keep the cleanse, and add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills. Dodging while cc'd should be removed as well.

 

Wait a second dude are you suggesting that he... dodge the attack? I was under the impression that purposefully eating the CC and then stunbreaking with EM was the 2000IQ way to go.

 

On a serious note though, everyone knows Mirage Cloak mechanic itself is the problem.

 

Except OP, apparently.

[djoun.3425]

Can still dodge while stunned without it. Fix that, infinite horizon was already better coz of that anyways. Also you just called dh broken while complaining about mesmer nerfs. You've lost all authority to talk about anything ever.

[Noha.3749]

Still works fine!

Won 1v3 as a viper staff +Scepter/torch toxic shatterbomber in WvW :)

Ofc they were not good players, 1 warrior, 1 guard and 1 necro. I should have died if any of them was decent. But it was fun!

[jportell.2197]

> @"Noha.3749" said:

> Still works fine!

> Won 1v3 as a viper staff +Scepter/torch toxic shatterbomber in WvW :)

> Ofc they were not good players, 1 warrior, 1 guard and 1 necro. I should have died if any of them was decent. But it was fun!

 

So that means it needs more of a Nerf still. Glad to see nothing changed while I took over a year break from.the game. People still complain about Mesmer so hard. With no reason at all.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

This is the incorrect nerf. Remove the ability to dodge while stunned while not running elusive mind. And then replace The stunbreak and exhaust with something else. (Examples: 2 condi remove, regain some endurance, heal self, etc.)

[Noha.3749]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > Still works fine!

> > Won 1v3 as a viper staff +Scepter/torch toxic shatterbomber in WvW :)

> > Ofc they were not good players, 1 warrior, 1 guard and 1 necro. I should have died if any of them was decent. But it was fun!

>

> So that means it needs more of a Nerf still. Glad to see nothing changed while I took over a year break from.the game. People still complain about Mesmer so hard. With no reason at all.

 

Well id lose if they didnt mistake me for my clones.

They lost because they didnt tab through the clones to spot me but just attacked whatever looked angrily at them, all 3 of them were dummies.

 

I lose several 1v1 against skilled players that knows how to "find" me.

 

Im really not a "great" mesmerplayer, but i naturally won that fight due to them being way way worse than me.

 

I see spellbreakers slapping around equally amounts of players due to other benefits of that profession.

And several other professions able to do the same against "blobgeared" players.

 

Its not skill, its the nature of building towards ganks/roaming instead of having a viable group/squad based build.

[Schwahrheit.4203]

Only fair. Stun break on dodge is stupid, Mesmer mains are just entitled brats who are absolute garbage at "honest" builds

 

Seriously, even the "top" mesmers back in the day can't even land hundred blades more than 50% of the time, and HB wasn't even THAT hard to land.

 

Entitled rich kid class, that's what Mesmer is. Spamming evades while attacking and STILL CRYING about how hard it is. Entitled brats.

[MyPuppy.8970]

I can't say that makes me happy but I can hardly feel bad for mesmers in general.

[jportell.2197]

> @"snowflake.9037" said:

> In ever believed EM was the sole culprit. Yes it contributed, but the problem has always been being able to dodge while stunned (gain evade frames), not so much that you stun break at least IMO.

>

> Now you'll be knocked down or stunned, but still avoid the burst with IH. That *** needs to go away.

 

IH doesn't allow the mesmer to avoid burst. All it does is give clones ambush skills which thank God for that. They are finally more than shatter fodder.

 

Mirage cloak being an instant cast skill is the only reason it allows evades while stunned. It's like any other instant cast skill that doesn't break stun (mantras, meditations, some shouts.) Did they mess up the design. I can say yes they did. But in order for mirage cloak to not allow evades while stunned they have to totally redesign the specialization. Which they won't. Soooo.....

 

And if they do this they should definitely make full counter not proc skills if it misses. Spell breakers and holos are beyond broken

[snowflake.9037]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"snowflake.9037" said:

> > In ever believed EM was the sole culprit. Yes it contributed, but the problem has always been being able to dodge while stunned (gain evade frames), not so much that you stun break at least IMO.

> >

> > Now you'll be knocked down or stunned, but still avoid the burst with IH. That *** needs to go away.

>

> IH doesn't allow the mesmer to avoid burst. All it does is give clones ambush skills which thank God for that. They are finally more than shatter fodder.

>

> Mirage cloak being an instant cast skill is the only reason it allows evades while stunned. It's like any other instant cast skill that doesn't break stun (mantras, meditations, some shouts.) Did they mess up the design. I can say yes they did. But in order for mirage cloak to not allow evades while stunned they have to totally redesign the specialization. Which they won't. Soooo.....

>

> And if they do this they should definitely make full counter not proc skills if it misses. Spell breakers and holos are beyond broken

 

I know it's implied that I said IH allows you to do that but nah, I know mirage cloak is the default thing that allows you to dodge while cc'd, I just mentioned IH because that's what people will be using now.

[jportell.2197]

> @"snowflake.9037" said:

> > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > @"snowflake.9037" said:

> > > In ever believed EM was the sole culprit. Yes it contributed, but the problem has always been being able to dodge while stunned (gain evade frames), not so much that you stun break at least IMO.

> > >

> > > Now you'll be knocked down or stunned, but still avoid the burst with IH. That *** needs to go away.

> >

> > IH doesn't allow the mesmer to avoid burst. All it does is give clones ambush skills which thank God for that. They are finally more than shatter fodder.

> >

> > Mirage cloak being an instant cast skill is the only reason it allows evades while stunned. It's like any other instant cast skill that doesn't break stun (mantras, meditations, some shouts.) Did they mess up the design. I can say yes they did. But in order for mirage cloak to not allow evades while stunned they have to totally redesign the specialization. Which they won't. Soooo.....

> >

> > And if they do this they should definitely make full counter not proc skills if it misses. Spell breakers and holos are beyond broken

>

> I know it's implied that I said IH allows you to do that but nah, I know mirage cloak is the default thing that allows you to dodge while cc'd, I just mentioned IH because that's what people will be using now.

 

 

Most people running condis were using that. Metabattle and God's of PvP is wrong and you know it lol. The amount of pressure a Mirage puts out without it is small.

[Curunen.8729]

Woah, the vitriol is real.

 

I don't understand the vindictive nature of the anti-mesmer sentiments, even if the class is strong and maybe subjectively some people don't like to fight against it.

 

Bottom line is reducing variety by misguided nerfing (or intentionally making it harmful) isn't good balance. I would never want this to happen for any skill/trait on any class.

 

And I'll reiterate what to me is a crucial point - EM exhaustion procs on breaking daze, meaning daze effectively becomes hard cc and incentivises not dodging - whereas a normal dodge can do this. Almost all the time I'd rather keep the daze and just dodge. But you don't have the choice - if you dodge you will break the daze whether you want to or not, and proc the exhaustion.

 

Fine if the exhaustion is only for proper hard cc like stun, knockdown, etc - in all of these cases there is a clear choice to use utility stunbreaks first or wait it out, and if I end up in this situation I would always go for utilities first or even reposition with teleports, recognising that proccing any exhaustion means I've made a mistake in gameplay.

 

But if (and I mean if because it's still better to delete and make something new) EM is going to stay like this then the Daze issue needs to be looked at.

[Alatar.7364]

Let us now complain about Full Signet Mes

[Imperadordf.2687]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

[Zawn.9647]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > not sure if this is a troll post or not - elusive mind is just one of the dozen things that are OP in mesmers...

> > hello 587 condi applications? hello stealthing to run away? hello blink,jaunt,portal? hello 4 other mesmers to get visual confusion on your enemies? hello dodge that doesnt interrupt what you're doing? hello invulnerabilities? i can keep going :)

>

> An eagle can see much further than humans, fly, has feathers to keep warm, has a sharp beak, etc.

> Humans have none of those traits. Does that make eagles OP compared to humans?

> Similar with tardigrades: radiation resistance, heat resistance, cold resistance, drought resistance, etc.

>

> Now, I know biology isn't a game (I was thinking of TierZoo if you ever watched those youtube videos). However, it makes the point.

>

> Having specific traits or a large variation of traits does **NOT** mean something is OP

>

> I could give a class a variety of traits for 1 sec of stealth, 1 sec of endurance, 1 sec of aegis, 1 1 sec block, 1 1 sec daze, etc. and it will NOT be OP, far from it.

> What you need to do is prove or demonstrate that it is OP, not that it has a variety of traits.

> Woopty do! Every class in this game has a large variety of traits.

>

> I'm tired of the B.S. logical fallacy Crap

>

 

HAHAHAHAHAH are you serious?

 

chronomancers are S-Tier in Fractals and Raids

mirages are S-Tier in spvp and wvw roaming

 

mesmers specs can do burst damage or tons of condi damage

besides doing that, they have evade while stun, evade that doesnt interrupt what they're doing (mirage)

invuls, stealths, blink, portal, illusions to confuse people, a skill that "shuffles" all illusions so you get confused once again

 

for what i can see the one using BS logical fallacy is you comparing eagles/humans to mesmer/everything else. not sure if trolling YET AGAIN or not :D

[otto.5684]

I have to say, the lack of knowledge in this form is disturbing...

[incisorr.9502]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

 

yes

 

already said that but this forum is so full of ignorance and of people hating mesmer with passion as if mesmer is in the same state it was from 8 months ago or something. Class hasn't been good for a long while now.

 

Sadly anet just nerfs everything to a point where its unplayable, always. Worst part is that now ppl will realize IH is better (has always been better after the exhaustion EM) and Anet being the way they are might just nerf IH as well in a few months and that'll destroy the reason why ive been playing mesmer for the last few months

just like they destroyed my main class (warrior) and then my 2nd main (ele) and so on and so on over the years

[Nekromalistik.7045]

The nerf was necessary, also with the perma vigor and the energy seals, had dodges to spare, at least now they it to think twice instead of sending dodges spam

[kipthelip.5802]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"snowflake.9037" said:

> > In ever believed EM was the sole culprit. Yes it contributed, but the problem has always been being able to dodge while stunned (gain evade frames), not so much that you stun break at least IMO.

> >

> > Now you'll be knocked down or stunned, but still avoid the burst with IH. That *** needs to go away.

>

> IH doesn't allow the mesmer to avoid burst. All it does is give clones ambush skills which thank God for that. They are finally more than shatter fodder.

>

> Mirage cloak being an instant cast skill is the only reason it allows evades while stunned. It's like any other instant cast skill that doesn't break stun (mantras, meditations, some shouts.) Did they mess up the design. I can say yes they did. But in order for mirage cloak to not allow evades while stunned they have to totally redesign the specialization. Which they won't. Soooo.....

>

> And if they do this they should definitely make full counter not proc skills if it misses. Spell breakers and holos are beyond broken

 

No argument there A-net needs to circle back to Spell Breakers for more nerfs and instead of doing nothing but buffing holos actually nerf them some.

[Durzlla.6295]

They won’t be happy, these people act like clearing stun on dodge was some miraculous OP thing to a class that could still dodge while stunned lol.

 

Guarantee the same people are going to make the same complaints now about Mesmer and elusive mind even though no one will be using it.

[Simonoly.4352]

I don't think this nerf will do anything to help those who struggle against Mirage Cloak itself. Very few people know how to actually play around it and I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The thread I started on Elusive mind made it pretty clear that it was a problem of EM and the inherently broken way mirage cloak works. Mirage cloak is still usable while stunned and Mirage in general can still chain invulns for long enough to dump their entire skillbar on someone, so the class is thus still quite busted. Everything mirage is "bad" at is still merely something it is A-tier in. If mes mains actually played other classes they would quickly discover that their class is the only one in the game with no downside or weakness in its design.

 

My current predictions many months ago when I posted the problems with the phantasm rework have held true.

 

The fact is this class is still overtuned and people who disagree are generally mistaking their inability to play it as evidence that it's balanced.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Nekromalistik.7045" said:

> The nerf was necessary

 

A nerf was necessary, but "the" nerf wasn't

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

[Arzurag.7506]

I hope they don´t take the stunbreak on dodge away. I really don´t like being cc´d for like an eternity.