Possible solution for Griffon Updraft Use - New HoT Mastery

[Lord Dumpling.7914]

I keep thinking about how much i want to be able to use updrafts with the griffon, and the new map with its tornados and displaced jungle honestly just make that wish stronger.

Of course the discussion is that making the griffon be able to catch updrafts would make the glider completely obsolete, but i think when peolpe say that they just assume updraft use would come packaged as a normal ability with the griffon. But what if we were only able to unlock updraft use on the griffon as a 7th mastery in the HoT Gliding mastery line, so people would only be able to unlock it if they already have the full gliding line unlocked?

At that point i think it would be a nice reward to be able to use the griffon with updrafts aswell, and noone would be able to bypass getting the gliding masteries by "simply" getting the griffon. Plus, youd have to spend some time in Maguuma "training" with your griffon, so it wouldnt even be so far fetched in a story context.

(also, you get way too many mastery points anyway, theres plenty to spare)

[Rhyse.8179]

No.

 

Body is 7 characters too short.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

Quite the misleading title. The word "solution" suggests there is a problem, but there is none.

 

Besides that, the griffon (and all mounts) are PoF content. Gliding is HoT content. Giving PoF content an extra ability through a HoT mastery line does not make sense. Not everyone has both expansions. And before you bring up the jungle section of Jahai Bluffs as an example of HoT mastery use in PoF content, that section of the map is completely traversable with mounts as well, so people without HoT can still get everywhere us gliders can go too.

 

The spare mastery points are there to give people options for obtaining them. Not everyone wants to do everything that's required for all mastery points, nor should they. This gives flexibility to the mastery system and forces no one to do specific content they don't want to do. They would also have to rework the UI because a 7th mastery does not fit in the current UI screen.

 

Or in short, as Rhyse said: no.

[phs.6089]

won't happen, griffon is PoF, updrafts is HoT.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

> Of course the discussion is that making the griffon be able to catch updrafts would make the glider completely obsolete,

 

Actually, that's a misleading phrasing of the objection. The issue is that if you could swap at will between glider and griffon, you could stay aloft forever. It wouldn't make glider obsolete; it would make the combination overpowered.

 

That's why ANet decided against it.

 

 

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

> > Of course the discussion is that making the griffon be able to catch updrafts would make the glider completely obsolete,

>

> Actually, that's a misleading phrasing of the objection. The issue is that if you could swap at will between glider and griffon, you could stay aloft forever. It wouldn't make glider obsolete; it would make the combination overpowered.

>

> That's why ANet decided against it.

 

And, of course, in the context of the suggestion in this thread, if Griffy could ride updrafts, you could stay aloft forever *without* having to use the glider at all, and that would make the glider functionally obsolete outside of HoT and LS3 instances.

 

And we won't mention that it would make it so that full access to the capabilities of a piece of PoF content (Griffy) would require the purchase of HoT. That's clearly a no-no..

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Wouldn't the Devs have to add updrafts to all (or almost all) non-core HoT content?

Or are players just wanting to stay aloft in HoT?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

> > > Of course the discussion is that making the griffon be able to catch updrafts would make the glider completely obsolete,

> >

> > Actually, that's a misleading phrasing of the objection. The issue is that if you could swap at will between glider and griffon, you could stay aloft forever. It wouldn't make glider obsolete; it would make the combination overpowered.

> >

> > That's why ANet decided against it.

>

> And, of course, in the context of the suggestion in this thread, if Griffy could ride updrafts, you could stay aloft forever *without* having to use the glider at all, and that would make the glider functionally obsolete outside of HoT and LS3 instances.

>

> And we won't mention that it would make it so that full access to the capabilities of a piece of PoF content (Griffy) would require the purchase of HoT. That's clearly a no-no..

>

Eh, I didn't mention it because I think that it's usually too simplistic to ascribe simple capitalism to explain lots of ANet's decisions. They have made any number of decisions over the years that undermine their ability to generate revenue from various sources (e.g. adding the novelty wardrobe, and expanding it to include tonics). I don't mean that one shouldn't be cynical (which, I suppose, isn't a choice for some of us ;) ). Typically, ANet seems to consider 5 or 10 things, only some of which are strictly of the "what's in it for us" variety.

 

In this case, infinite aloft time (whether from griffony-updrafts or infinite g-g swapping) ends up making the game less fun. It sounds like a good idea, but then so does adding more damage to every class or nerfing older content or making it easier to farm gold... until one also considers the consequences.

 

I'm sure ANet makes plenty of choices for financial reasons. I also think the evidence makes it clear that sometimes they don't.

 

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > And we won't mention that it would make it so that full access to the capabilities of a piece of PoF content (Griffy) would require the purchase of HoT. That's clearly a no-no..

> >

> Eh, I didn't mention it because I think that it's usually too simplistic to ascribe simple capitalism to explain lots of ANet's decisions. They have made any number of decisions over the years that undermine their ability to generate revenue from various sources (e.g. adding the novelty wardrobe, and expanding it to include tonics). I don't mean that one shouldn't be cynical (which, I suppose, isn't a choice for some of us ;) ). Typically, ANet seems to consider 5 or 10 things, only some of which are strictly of the "what's in it for us" variety.

 

My statement was a sideways agreement with that, in effect, combined with a swipe at people (players) seeking to introduce dependencies between them. It's clear from the way they've structured previous releases that they don't want to introduce "essential" links between the two expansions, although some people would argue that the presence of updrafts in LS4E4 weakens that somewhat. I don't, since it's clear that those updrafts are in no way necessary to succeed in LS4E4, so they count as a bonus for people who have both expansions.

 

And ANet are far from the only MMORPG house that adds things that are pure benefit to the players. I'm thinking in particular of Runes of Magic's(1) "Magic Wardrobe"(2), which removed the need to continually spend the equivalent of Transmutation Charges to change your look. There isn't a direct equivalent of it in GW2, and the closest I've seen in other games is SWTOR's "Outfit Designer". Both are a set of alternative gear slots where you can put armour pieces, either real gear or (in the Magic Wardrobe) specialised "costume" pieces, and switch them around as you see fit. The Magic Wardrobe essentially strangled RoM's sales of TCs, although it surely boosted their sales of costume sets, but probably not enough to make up the difference.

 

(1) In the context of suddenly giving stuff away to the players, and the context of other threads here about play to win, the irony in citing Runes of Magic for giveaways is ... epic.

 

(2) It's one of the few features I've seen introduced in any MMORPG that just worked on its release day, with no apparent bugs anywhere.

[Typhoon.8645]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> won't happen, griffon is PoF, updrafts is HoT.

 

Very much this.

[Lord Dumpling.7914]

everybodys saying how having the griffon catch updrafts would suddenly allow people to stay aloft forever, but did you guys forget the infinite gliding mastery?? which allows you to stay aloft forever? Thats exactly the thing, if we had the ability to dismount midair and remount, *then* people could exploit the endurance regen to possibly climb up in the air faster. Which is also ruined by A: the cooldown, and B: the fact we literally just got a mount endurance regen mastery that essentially allows you to very easily gain extra height with the griffon.

on the argument that "locking full functionality of PoF content behind HoT bars", i dont know if i maybe didnt come across clearly, but A: the way i envisioned it implemented was that the actual trainable mastery isnt in the griffon line, or in the PoF category in general, but instead a hidden 7th mastery in the gliding line that unlocks when you get the griffon. Plus, why would a PoF only account care about unlocking updafts anyway when they _cant use them anyway because theyre hot content_

the way i see it its not locking away any kind of PoF content behind a HoT purchase, its only an added bonus for people that already own both expansions, how is that bad?

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

 

> on the argument that "locking full functionality of PoF content behind HoT bars", i dont know if i maybe didnt come across clearly, but A: the way i envisioned it implemented was that the actual trainable mastery isnt in the griffon line, or in the PoF category in general, but instead a hidden 7th mastery in the gliding line that unlocks when you get the griffon. Plus, why would a PoF only account care about unlocking updafts anyway when they _cant use them anyway because theyre hot content_

> the way i see it its not locking away any kind of PoF content behind a HoT purchase, its only an added bonus for people that already own both expansions, how is that bad?

 

I don't know if it's because English might not be your first language, but what you're describing is exactly locking PoF content behind a HoT wall. By putting the mastery in the Gliding line you're doing just that, because the Gliding line is only part of HoT, not PoF. So people with PoF would have to buy HoT to fully unlock the possiblities of a Griffon, which is PoF content. And PoF accounts would care about unlocking updrafts because, according to your suggestion, they'd have to unlock it before they can get that extra updraft mastery for the Griffon. In short you're saying "To fully unlock abilities of expansion 2 content you have to buy expansion 1".

 

Edit: grammar

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

>but did you guys forget the infinite gliding mastery?? which allows you to stay aloft forever?

 

Since when does that allow you to stay aloft forever? Gliding is slowly losing height over time. [Advanced Gliding mastery](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Advanced_Gliding) means you don’t fall out of the sky when you run out of endurance. However you will be forced to land as you can’t independently regain height.

[wiazabi.2549]

Would rather get shared mount ability to demount while in air ( Like mario abandoning yoshi ), would also like ability to change mount when on mount like if you have to swap from raptor -> bunny -> raptor you dont have to raptor -> dismount -> bunny -> dismount -> raptor but just skip the dismount part.

[Opopanax.1803]

Griffons already stay up in the air too long, allowing content skipping. The last thing they need is to be able to use updrafts and stay up even longer.

[ReaverKane.7598]

I suggested a Hybrid Mastery line requiring both HoT and PoF mastery points to unlock interactions between Mounts and HoT content when PoF launched. It's not going to happen. Today's Arena Net is more concerned on following their development formulas than innovating and creating entertaining content.

[Blude.6812]

> @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

> , but did you guys forget the infinite gliding mastery?? which allows you to stay aloft forever?

 

There is no infinite gliding mastery. There is advanced gliding mastery which does not allow you to stay aloft forever. Flesh Wound gave you a link.

 

 

 

[Ardid.7203]

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

>

> > on the argument that "locking full functionality of PoF content behind HoT bars", i dont know if i maybe didnt come across clearly, but A: the way i envisioned it implemented was that the actual trainable mastery isnt in the griffon line, or in the PoF category in general, but instead a hidden 7th mastery in the gliding line that unlocks when you get the griffon. Plus, why would a PoF only account care about unlocking updafts anyway when they _cant use them anyway because theyre hot content_

> > the way i see it its not locking away any kind of PoF content behind a HoT purchase, its only an added bonus for people that already own both expansions, how is that bad?

>

> I don't know if it's because English might not be your first language, but what you're describing is exactly locking PoF content behind a HoT wall. By putting the mastery in the Gliding line you're doing just that, because the Gliding line is only part of HoT, not PoF. So people with PoF would have to buy HoT to fully unlock the possiblities of a Griffon, which is PoF content. And PoF accounts would care about unlocking updrafts because, according to your suggestion, they'd have to unlock it before they can get that extra updraft mastery for the Griffon. In short you're saying "To fully unlock abilities of expansion 2 content you have to buy expansion 1".

>

> Edit: grammar

 

Hmm... by that logic the whole Griffon is locking HoT content behind a PoF wall. After all, Griffon is just a better Glider.

So people would have to buy PoF to fully unlock the posibilities of gliding in the game, which is so bad...

 

Wait, maybe buying BOTH expacs is what Anet wants us to do. Maybe Anet could win more money and us could get more content by buying the two. So maybe having masteries that relly on having both of them could give people who paid for both a better experience! By the Eternal Alchemy!

[jbrother.1340]

> @"Lord Dumpling.7914" said:

> I keep thinking about how much i want to be able to use updrafts with the griffon, and the new map with its tornados and displaced jungle honestly just make that wish stronger.

> Of course the discussion is that making the griffon be able to catch updrafts would make the glider completely obsolete, but i think when peolpe say that they just assume updraft use would come packaged as a normal ability with the griffon. But what if we were only able to unlock updraft use on the griffon as a 7th mastery in the HoT Gliding mastery line, so people would only be able to unlock it if they already have the full gliding line unlocked?

> At that point i think it would be a nice reward to be able to use the griffon with updrafts aswell, and noone would be able to bypass getting the gliding masteries by "simply" getting the griffon. Plus, youd have to spend some time in Maguuma "training" with your griffon, so it wouldnt even be so far fetched in a story context.

> (also, you get way too many mastery points anyway, theres plenty to spare)

 

You don't need a solution to a problem that does not exist.

 

There is no issue this was their intent and they did this the right way.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

There are certain maps where I find the gryphon is what I need, while on others the Glider is the best vehicle. I can swap from glider to gryphon but not the other way around, and that is be design.

 

Unlike an other MMO I shall not name where all mounts are the same, just different skins, GW2 has a series of mounts that all find use in for different purposes, and I think its the best system around. While in that other MMO I loved being able to fly and hover, I'm OK with not being able to do so in GW2.

[Biff.5312]

There is another point to be made here - when I'm in bloodstone fen for instance and moving between floating rock islands, sometimes I deliberately ride the griffon to AVOID being whisked upward by a draft. With the storms that pop up all over the place sometimes the safest route is to move through the updraft, and while I realize I could probably use controls to 'drop' back out of it, I find it convenient now to simply use the appropriate means of transport depending on whether I want to go up, or not.