Derenaya.3479 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't really care if you have no clue what I am talking about. ... there's no reason thief has to be stuck in 1 role, since every class can fill different roles. That was the point, if u don't agree then that's u... I disagree, the description of the thief clearly states master of 1v1 But it clearly isn't. If u can't read, I can't help you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that if thief were the best pick for every role, why would you ever need any other class? And if it werent the best pick for a role why would you take it for that role, and not bring something better? > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he means all roles though, just a different role from what it is currently. > > > > > > > > Thanks. It seems like no one else understands that I don't want the thief to be best at everything. Just something different. Since both d/p and s/d is basically the same roll. > > > > > > I think that because of the way you framed your question. > > > > > > I guess you just really want to be a good 1v1 class is all? So you should know thief isn't actually so bad at 1v1's. The problem is that in conquest thief usually can't 1v1 while contributing positively to the scoreboard. If you're fighting someone 1v1 you don't just fight him because they are there, thats how so many people throw matches, you NEED to be 1v1'ing them for a reason, and in conquest it is almost entirely to defend or take a node. > > > > > > Here are some examples of why you should 1v1: > > > - Because you own the node you're standing on and you want to prevent someone from decapping it. > > > - Because you want to intercept and immediately pressure a key person before they arrive at a node (eg. necros) > > > - Because you want to get a decap/cap on a point where you think you are in favor in winning or decapping it quickly despite them standing on it. > > > > > > Because a thief's defensive kit is built around stealth, evading and kiting, it makes it extremely difficult to 1v1 without risk of losing the node. Contrast that to spell breaker for example who relies on Blocks, evades and sustain as a part of their defensive kit, and you'll see why thief isn't ever really chosen. Imagine what it would be like if you give that stuff to thief along with their current kit, it would make for something insanely op. > > > > Also it's not just I want... Its literally in the description. Master at 1v1. They should remove that if it's not true, I feel it should be true for all game modes. > > > > Every other class u can do different roles, druid boonbeast, sic em ranger, Holo can basically do everything etc. > > > > As I mentioned. What u described to say thief can do that because of "kit" makes no sense. As mesmer has all of that and more. > > > > But hey.. you are entitled to your belief. U want to always run away from 8/9 classes and always need some one to fight then I am happy for you. > > Dude just chill lol. > > What you don't understand is that thief IS a good 1v1 class. But that there is no such thing as a 1v1 role in conquest, that's why nobody plays any 1v1 builds on thief. There is not a 1v1 conquest build because there has no need for a dedicated 1v1 ROLE in pvp. The most common roles in pvp are DPS, Bunker, Bruiser and +1. The only place you will find 1v1 builds is while roaming in WvW or in obsidian sanctum, where ironically thief is generally considered the king. > > The reason that no 1v1 builds exist, is because its not possible to guarantee dedicated 1v1's in a group PvP format. Its not rocket science. The reason that you don't take a 1v1 class to a mid fight is obvious. The reason you don't take it to a side node is because its an inferior matchup vs the ultimate win condition in a 1v1, thats getting +1'd while getting stalled forever by a bruiser. > > What you're talking about is inventing a 1v1 build and introducing it into pvp as an inferior alternative to a bruiser or +1 on the side node, that's totally changing the team comp to play something poorly suited to a team game mode. If you ditch the +1 then you're totally sacrificing your ability to instantly outnumber and win team fights, 1v1's and 1v2's on the map. If you give up a bruiser than it would probably cost less, but ultimately you sacrifice mobility and team presence during a mid fight. So you‘d say d/p DD is better for conquest than s/d Core because it has more mobility? Because I‘m pretty new to the game (3 weeks) and I‘m not sure which build I should take. Imo d/p DD is great at burst damage and mobility where as s/d Core has more frequent damage and not just burst (but maybe that‘s just because I don‘t play long enough to fully use the possibilitys of the build(s)). The problem I often face with d/p DD is when I +1 a tanky class I burst him for like 4-7k (which isn‘t that much honestly) and then run out of good options to pressure more. I don‘t have that problem on s/d Core because the attacks (S1 and S3) do more damage then what I have aviable with d/p. So I like that I‘m able to build more pressure and especially that S3 isn‘t blockable but I just feel so slow and the dodge-roll-heal isn‘t really to my taste either. So which build would you advice? People like Vallun, Sindrener and Shorts do really good with s/d Core (in my eyes at least) but most people tell me to use d/p DD. Is there really something better or does it just come down to taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I do like decapping but i'm no thief ! i'm a weaver ! I decapp AND i contest so maybe i'm more usefull? well no i cant stealth Kappa ....I kid I kid... don't be triggered here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riko.9214 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > What you don't understand is that thief IS a good 1v1 class. I guess I do not understand it too. 1) Whoever I beat on my thief (S/D+St DD) in 1v1 I would beat 2x easier or even without breaking a sweat on any of my other chars (rev/ele/guard/war/mens) 2) Thief is one of the best chasers (together with rev) and is not the worst disengager, but I do not see how it is relevant for 1v1 aka duel So you mean being good in 1v1 is being able to catch up + execute wounded and ambush those who are distracted by something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlater.6789 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 > @"Riko.9214" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > What you don't understand is that thief IS a good 1v1 class. > > I guess I do not understand it too. > 1) Whoever I beat on my thief (S/D+St DD) in 1v1 I would beat 2x easier or even without breaking a sweat on any of my other chars (rev/ele/guard/war/mens) > 2) Thief is one of the best chasers (together with rev) and is not the worst disengager, but I do not see how it is relevant for 1v1 aka duel > > So you mean being good in 1v1 is being able to catch up + execute wounded and ambush those who are distracted by something else? I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about thief within the context of a competitive conquest match. If you wanna 1v1 someone in the guild hall or in wvw thief is probably one of the strongest options. If you wanna play a competitive game of pvp, you need to be a useful member of your team, 1v1ing people randomly in spvp is objectively considered to be non-viable strategy as it is probably the single slowest and most inefficient way to gain any points used to win the match; this is why there is no 1v1 role in sPvP. The difficulty theoretically is separating the player vs player dueling from winning pvp. Let me give an example: 1. You're defending side node that you control, as long as you're dueling someone on top of that node you're contributing 1 point every 2 seconds to your team score, effectively your contribution is worth killing a player every 10 seconds. If you assume equal skill there is also a 50% chance to kill them and score an extra 5 points + the value of rejoining the mid fight. 2. However, if they knock you off the point and it is successfully decapped, you're contributing nothing to the overall team score. You can either leave the point to rejoin mid giving you 10s to secure a kill at middle (of which you are probably outnumbered because you have someone contend your point at all), before they follow you to mid too, or you can stay on the point where you have no value and continue dueling that person where you have only a 50% chance of making a kill and eventually recapturing the node. The value of a +1 in both of these examples is tremendous not only because it increases your chance to make the kill to almost 100%. In 1. it means you can also rejoin the mid fight with 2 people fully reset and it essentially prevents the second scenario from happening. However running a 1v1 build is a problem, it's that you just can't guarantee a kill if you want to maximise points earned, the likelihood of getting decapped is higher as typically most dedicated duelists have lower sustain making them more susceptible to +1's or having dependencies like stealth and kiting, while also bringing what's generally considered to be worse mobility. > @"Derenaya.3479" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't really care if you have no clue what I am talking about. ... there's no reason thief has to be stuck in 1 role, since every class can fill different roles. That was the point, if u don't agree then that's u... I disagree, the description of the thief clearly states master of 1v1 But it clearly isn't. If u can't read, I can't help you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that if thief were the best pick for every role, why would you ever need any other class? And if it werent the best pick for a role why would you take it for that role, and not bring something better? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he means all roles though, just a different role from what it is currently. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. It seems like no one else understands that I don't want the thief to be best at everything. Just something different. Since both d/p and s/d is basically the same roll. > > > > > > > > I think that because of the way you framed your question. > > > > > > > > I guess you just really want to be a good 1v1 class is all? So you should know thief isn't actually so bad at 1v1's. The problem is that in conquest thief usually can't 1v1 while contributing positively to the scoreboard. If you're fighting someone 1v1 you don't just fight him because they are there, thats how so many people throw matches, you NEED to be 1v1'ing them for a reason, and in conquest it is almost entirely to defend or take a node. > > > > > > > > Here are some examples of why you should 1v1: > > > > - Because you own the node you're standing on and you want to prevent someone from decapping it. > > > > - Because you want to intercept and immediately pressure a key person before they arrive at a node (eg. necros) > > > > - Because you want to get a decap/cap on a point where you think you are in favor in winning or decapping it quickly despite them standing on it. > > > > > > > > Because a thief's defensive kit is built around stealth, evading and kiting, it makes it extremely difficult to 1v1 without risk of losing the node. Contrast that to spell breaker for example who relies on Blocks, evades and sustain as a part of their defensive kit, and you'll see why thief isn't ever really chosen. Imagine what it would be like if you give that stuff to thief along with their current kit, it would make for something insanely op. > > > > > > Also it's not just I want... Its literally in the description. Master at 1v1. They should remove that if it's not true, I feel it should be true for all game modes. > > > > > > Every other class u can do different roles, druid boonbeast, sic em ranger, Holo can basically do everything etc. > > > > > > As I mentioned. What u described to say thief can do that because of "kit" makes no sense. As mesmer has all of that and more. > > > > > > But hey.. you are entitled to your belief. U want to always run away from 8/9 classes and always need some one to fight then I am happy for you. > > > > Dude just chill lol. > > > > What you don't understand is that thief IS a good 1v1 class. But that there is no such thing as a 1v1 role in conquest, that's why nobody plays any 1v1 builds on thief. There is not a 1v1 conquest build because there has no need for a dedicated 1v1 ROLE in pvp. The most common roles in pvp are DPS, Bunker, Bruiser and +1. The only place you will find 1v1 builds is while roaming in WvW or in obsidian sanctum, where ironically thief is generally considered the king. > > > > The reason that no 1v1 builds exist, is because its not possible to guarantee dedicated 1v1's in a group PvP format. Its not rocket science. The reason that you don't take a 1v1 class to a mid fight is obvious. The reason you don't take it to a side node is because its an inferior matchup vs the ultimate win condition in a 1v1, thats getting +1'd while getting stalled forever by a bruiser. > > > > What you're talking about is inventing a 1v1 build and introducing it into pvp as an inferior alternative to a bruiser or +1 on the side node, that's totally changing the team comp to play something poorly suited to a team game mode. If you ditch the +1 then you're totally sacrificing your ability to instantly outnumber and win team fights, 1v1's and 1v2's on the map. If you give up a bruiser than it would probably cost less, but ultimately you sacrifice mobility and team presence during a mid fight. > > So you‘d say d/p DD is better for conquest than s/d Core because it has more mobility? Because I‘m pretty new to the game (3 weeks) and I‘m not sure which build I should take. Imo d/p DD is great at burst damage and mobility where as s/d Core has more frequent damage and not just burst (but maybe that‘s just because I don‘t play long enough to fully use the possibilitys of the build(s)). > > The problem I often face with d/p DD is when I +1 a tanky class I burst him for like 4-7k (which isn‘t that much honestly) and then run out of good options to pressure more. I don‘t have that problem on s/d Core because the attacks (S1 and S3) do more damage then what I have aviable with d/p. So I like that I‘m able to build more pressure and especially that S3 isn‘t blockable but I just feel so slow and the dodge-roll-heal isn‘t really to my taste either. > > So which build would you advice? People like Vallun, Sindrener and Shorts do really good with s/d Core (in my eyes at least) but most people tell me to use d/p DD. Is there really something better or does it just come down to taste? S/D is better for the current meta, especially vs things like Firebrand and SpellBreaker which can often just shrug off many D/P thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riko.9214 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > If you wanna 1v1 someone in the guild hall or in wvw thief is probably one of the strongest options. I do not argue with your point about the effectiveness of 1v1 oriented builds in sPVP. But I do argue with the cited statement - to me thief is the weakest class for 1v1. It is as I mentioned almost always good for chasing down and in many cases good for disengagement. But not for fighting. In 1v1 I would rather be on any other of my chars then the thief as they have overwhelmingly more invulns/blocks/boons on top of higher sustainable dps with the same or even larger spike damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I didn't vote because I don't think the options captured my thoughts on the matter. * I don't mind decapping in general. I think a lot of the higher level play is reading the map and rotating regardless of class. If I can rotate into an unoccupied node and decap or even full cap depending on the circumstances that is a good thing for me to do. That's not a "thief" thing so much as a game thing. * Thief in generally has the ability to stealth and use mobility to slip away to decap. I've been on Foefire games where a person captures their home and then I stealth before they get to mid and run past them with shadowstep. Their point disappears to decap and I can use shadowstep to return to the fight almost without pause. That kind of manipulation is still where thief shines best in class. * I can actually fight many 1v1s and depending on the situation I will take the fight. How much depends on whether the other team is spread out and guarding their points or not. You can't decap if the other team is bunkered down on their home node. In that case, ideally I pick targets, make sure our team can apply their damage effectively and watch the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix the One.4071 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Where is the “No, because eventhough I mained this professions I only use 10% of its potential”? I will try to get better though and decap and be +1. Also be better at mapawareness... only 6 years late:0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 That's a lot of "No" votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"Phoenix the One.4071" said: > Where is the “No, because eventhough I mained this professions I only use 10% of its potential”? > I will try to get better though and decap and be +1. > Also be better at mapawareness... only 6 years late:0 I have nothing against decap and +1. I am sure I haven't reached it's potential at all. It's more of the role is the same for the elite spec DD and core just different skills. While other things like core guard is completely different than fb. Would be nice to have another option, one where u are really are the master of single combat as the description says.The assassin architype is what drew me to this class. Even though it looks like you are very adamant on insulting me about my skill level, my post isn't about how weak thief is at it's role because it is not weak at it's role. You are entitled to your opinion. If u feel that thief should only get the same role every spec while every one else such as the likes of Holo can fulfill every role then good on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix the One.4071 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"Phoenix the One.4071" said: > > Where is the “No, because eventhough I mained this professions I only use 10% of its potential”? > > I will try to get better though and decap and be +1. > > Also be better at mapawareness... only 6 years late:0 > > I have nothing against decap and +1. I am sure I haven't reached it's potential at all. It's more of the role is the same for the elite spec DD and core just different skills. While other things like core guard is completely different than fb. Would be nice to have another option, one where u are really are the master of single combat as the description says.The assassin architype is what drew me to this class. > > Even though it looks like you are very adamant on insulting me about my skill level, my post isn't about how weak thief is at it's role because it is not weak at it's role. > > You are entitled to your opinion. If u feel that thief should only get the same role every spec while every one else such as the likes of Holo can fulfill every role then good on you. Uff you got offended fast :b my post was about me, and my playstyle as a Daredevil xD I had no idea (eventhough I sPvP a bit) that people expected me to decap and +1. I usually try to fully cap, and I have been playing for 6+ years, so well. And I feel that I can do different stuff in the Deadeye and pigeonholing is often (not always) more about the community than the traits and skills. I will say balance patches don’t help. ;) But deep breath and realize that offend is taken not given :) - Jimmy Carr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > If I had to choose 1 person who is super knowledgeable on thief its bluri aka sindrener who is arguably the best thief to touch the game. Why do you think sinderener is that good? I checked his videos and there really isnt anything perticular on his gameplay that could put him on the post such as best thief to touch the game. he only runs power build and majority of ppl he deals with are really not that good imo he gets the results because of the matches he goes into and thanks to some knowledge of his class yuo can even hear how he smashes the buttons durring the games he records that is not how i would imagine a real pro thief to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 Deleted comment. No point talking to some one who only thinks in terms of binnary. Thank God the game developers don't else we won't get Holo or fb. For the record Holo has both high dps n sustain and not every one plays it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > If I had to choose 1 person who is super knowledgeable on thief its bluri aka sindrener who is arguably the best thief to touch the game. > > Why do you think sinderener is that good? I checked his videos and there really isnt anything perticular on his gameplay that could put him on the post such as best thief to touch the game. he only runs power build and majority of ppl he deals with are really not that good imo he gets the results because of the matches he goes into and thanks to some knowledge of his class > yuo can even hear how he smashes the buttons durring the games he records that is not how i would imagine a real pro thief to play To add. The dude is pretty toxic too. Regularly PM's people asking for their ranking and making fun of their rank on live stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 people actually like running around decapping? that's pretty lol. would rather wail on some foes with a big fat hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawloon Fuathach.3807 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Didn't vote, due to there being no- "No, I only decap to use the point as bait for endless amusement, since the player base is like lemmings, and will continuously run towards a point only to die repeatedly. It's like getting one shot the first time didn't clue them in to /maybe/ change their tactics. Better to repeatedly hit your head against a wall, than adapt to a situation." -option. Though really, in all seriousness, I don't like my role in the game being immediately assumed to be "Decap-bitch", just because I happen to enjoy playing Thief. I didn't purchase the game, nor do I play PvP, to just stand around idle in circles far, far away from fights, rotating only to decap/cap and +1. I play Thief to be a sneaky, burst damage bastard, causing havoc and rage-quits wherever I can, for the better of my team. And quite frankly, I do so proudly, and most of the time, I do better than any of those that sit there and complain about me 'Not doing my job', which, I didn't sign up for in the first place. o7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > If I had to choose 1 person who is super knowledgeable on thief its bluri aka sindrener who is arguably the best thief to touch the game. > > > > Why do you think sinderener is that good? I checked his videos and there really isnt anything perticular on his gameplay that could put him on the post such as best thief to touch the game. he only runs power build and majority of ppl he deals with are really not that good imo he gets the results because of the matches he goes into and thanks to some knowledge of his class > > yuo can even hear how he smashes the buttons durring the games he records that is not how i would imagine a real pro thief to play > > To add. The dude is pretty toxic too. Regularly PM's people asking for their ranking and making fun of their rank on live stream. I have been one of his mods for over a year. He has never done this lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > If I had to choose 1 person who is super knowledgeable on thief its bluri aka sindrener who is arguably the best thief to touch the game. > > Why do you think sinderener is that good? I checked his videos and there really isnt anything perticular on his gameplay that could put him on the post such as best thief to touch the game. he only runs power build and majority of ppl he deals with are really not that good imo he gets the results because of the matches he goes into and thanks to some knowledge of his class > yuo can even hear how he smashes the buttons durring the games he records that is not how i would imagine a real pro thief to play Well he is always one of the top ranked players in EU which is a way more skilled group of players than NA has. What other build for thief is there to run that isn't focused around power? Condi isn't that good anymore. He has more knowledge than just his class. He also has very good map awareness. Who doesn't smash keys while playing games? Not even just MMOs. If you say you have never smashed a button while playing a game you are full of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"bluri.2653" said: > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. It feels like shit when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. I do less for more on Core engineer. The most fucking complicated class in the game! And every god damn time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a shit storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: First how could you tell if i do smash buttons? did you ever hear/saw play me? also condi is quite good you just need to know how to do it. Thief has actually such condi burst it is able to kill classes within 3-5 seconds. Again you need to know how to do it. And being on the top doesnt matter he is really that good. Check the teams he plays in. usually they are either good players as well or at least the composition of the team is good = no double thieves or troll builds. That can do a lot I believe someone once said here Thief can only be as good as his team is. I would like to see him perform in fight like this his team Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, Staff Daredevil, Necro(not scourge), and him vs Condi Mirage, Power Chrono, Core Guardian, Two Tons of fun (condi WvW field based) Scourges I usually get into matchups like these and i can tell you it is no fun to play against especially if the ppl you play with start complaining at you for being dead when you get butt loved by two of the above because they werent forced to spend more than three ppl on mid to take care for the rest of ur team. These are the matches that can prove weather you are a good theif or not. Cuz thief realy cant pull his whole team he needs to have distraction when he decaps/caps. Of course you can 1v1 yes as a theif you can do it. It maybe takes a bit longer that it would for other clases but you can 1v1. When it turns into 1+1v1 or 1v2 you better run for your dear life if you still got dodges but if you are able to win even in match like that by very close score difference then you can say you are lets say decent thief. I havent seen him in such circumstances and i believe he would get quite salty if he'd be loosing 80-320 on Carpricorn (even in this point you can turn it i've been there and saw it) that is why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > First how could you tell if i do smash buttons? did you ever hear/saw play me? > also condi is quite good you just need to know how to do it. Thief has actually such condi burst it is able to kill classes within 3-5 seconds. Again you need to know how to do it. And being on the top doesnt matter he is really that good. Check the teams he plays in. usually they are either good players as well or at least the composition of the team is good = no double thieves or troll builds. That can do a lot > I believe someone once said here Thief can only be as good as his team is. I would like to see him perform in fight like this > his team Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, Staff Daredevil, Necro(not scourge), and him > vs Condi Mirage, Power Chrono, Core Guardian, Two Tons of fun (condi WvW field based) Scourges > I usually get into matchups like these and i can tell you it is no fun to play against especially if the ppl you play with start complaining at you for being dead when you get butt loved by two of the above because they werent forced to spend more than three ppl on mid to take care for the rest of ur team. > These are the matches that can prove weather you are a good theif or not. Cuz thief realy cant pull his whole team he needs to have distraction when he decaps/caps. Of course you can 1v1 yes as a theif you can do it. It maybe takes a bit longer that it would for other clases but you can 1v1. When it turns into 1+1v1 or 1v2 you better run for your dear life if you still got dodges but if you are able to win even in match like that by very close score difference then you can say you are lets say decent thief. I havent seen him in such circumstances and i believe he would get quite salty if he'd be loosing 80-320 on Carpricorn (even in this point you can turn it i've been there and saw it) > that is why I have never seen you play, I just know that probably 99% of us have mashed buttons before. Have you never played a Mario Party? I have a mechanical keyboard and I can press as lightly as I want and it still clacks. It is just a natural thing we all do. As a thief you should really never be in a 1v2 where you are the disadvantaged party though. I say this because well you just never should be by default. But also because there is probably a point open to cap. Who doesn't get salty when you're getting stomped? Some saltier than others but if Sind or any top level player is reeming someone they have enough knowledge of the game to probably do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game! > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. > > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game! > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1. Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places. You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW. Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. > > > > > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. > > > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. > > > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game! > > > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. > > > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? > > > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." > > > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. > > > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1. > > Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places. > > You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW. > > Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak. Ah yea I remember thieve's guild being good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. > > > > > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. > > > > > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game! > > > > > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. > > > > > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? > > > > > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." > > > > > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. > > > > > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1. > > > > Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places. > > > > You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW. > > > > Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak. > > Ah yea I remember thieve's guild being good. I might be wrong. But didn't they also have three thieves in PvP? Till the nerf? Id agree with that being way too much when combined with the shadow assassin trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better. > > > > > > > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press. > > > > > > > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game! > > > > > > > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days. > > > > > > > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process? > > > > > > > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta." > > > > > > > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore. > > > > > > > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1. > > > > > > Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places. > > > > > > You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW. > > > > > > Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak. > > > > Ah yea I remember thieve's guild being good. > > I might be wrong. But didn't they also have three thieves in PvP? Till the nerf? Id agree with that being way too much when combined with the shadow assassin trap. Back at release it was 3. One had two pistols, one had a sword, and one had daggers IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now