Mirage/mesmer is OP?

[Belishine.7493]

If you think mes is op here is why most peps will see it that way or even if its a easy class with almost no skill. Now if you crunch the illusions for mes right now you can can get 3 clones standerd and if you use healing sig you can get up to 4 phantoms out + you making it seem like thare is 8 peps fighting you at one time. You see how this can get out of controll fast with more then one mes now. Never underestamate the stealth use and portal and blinks you get with mes and now you are a low skill thief that cant be touched and can solo a full group with little skill. As of the way a pro and a scrub will see it mes in just what i have told you is brocken compared to other classes. Ill explan it like this if you get a thief that can summon 7 thiefs then you would say ya thief is brocken but you are still saying its ok with the mes were is the balance? As you all can see mes is in a state were its still in a bad state even if you like for pvp. If you like the condi mes any class that uses a charge skill like revs 0 kill that does dragon wings you can troll the hell out of them by doing confusion on them that can instantly kill them. As a whole the way i see mes it needs a lot of tuning to get it to the point were its not so brocken. I do hope this lets the devs see were they messed up with the mes changes that makes them worse then 3 years ago. If im rong id like you to show me were im thinking mes is brocken.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> If you think mes is op here is why most peps will see it that way or even if its a easy class with almost no skill. Now if you crunch the illusions for mes right now you can can get 3 clones standerd and if you use healing sig you can get up to 4 phantoms out +

 

How....

Edit: To elaborate on this question and claim.

 

A Chrono-

Would need to have at least 2 clones up

Use CS - summon two phantasms with the weapon swap

CS ends- Summon another phantasm

( the previous phantasms would be clones by now OR destroyed)

Use the healing skill which only recharges 50% ( it is not 100% in pvp or WvW)

weapon swap ( if the situation is applicable for it)

then summon another phantasm

 

At most non shattered you will have 4.

 

How are you getting 8 persisting?

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

To add to Solori I'll comment on thief bit.

Mesmer damage is dependent on phantasm and clones, without them the damage is low, heck, even with them power sustain damage is low.

If thief had access to phantasm and clones it would be indeed broken because thief was design to deal damage by itself.

If thief was warranted illusions their damage would be toned down to compensate.

 

Also that's one of the reasons mesmers want an illusionless spec.

[Belishine.7493]

you think im rong on how to get all 7 illusions out so ill stat it like this with just core. you have a few skills that can get you some clones easy so no issue with geting clones now remember do not shater to get all 7 illusions you. the next step is to use both phantom skills from wepons then use the mes healing signet witch rests all phantom cooldowns so you pop them agen giveing you a total of 7 illusions at any point in time that you want now if you did this with chrono then you can get even 2 more on the phantom side but you are shatering so you lose a illusion but still this is brocken i would love it if i saw confusion trick the target in thinking all allies are now hostal to them in pvp and wvw it would make the seem like a true lillusionist for the pvp side of things and as a added bonuse any one that damages the confused target gets like 5% damage and condi damage bonuse on that target. as of right now i see anet is in a cornor for mes if they nerf it they piss all the mes off and if they dont the class stays brocken right now so they in a big cornor on what to do.

[Duckota.4769]

Lmao am I really watching people defend condi mirage smh

[Solori.6025]

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> you think im rong on how to get all 7 illusions out so ill stat it like this with just core. you have a few skills that can get you some clones easy so no issue with geting clones now remember do not shater to get all 7 illusions you. the next step is to use both phantom skills from wepons then use the mes healing signet witch rests all phantom cooldowns so you pop them agen giveing you a total of 7 illusions at any point in time that you want now if you did this with chrono then you can get even 2 more on the phantom side but you are shatering so you lose a illusion but still this is brocken i would love it if i saw confusion trick the target in thinking all allies are now hostal to them in pvp and wvw it would make the seem like a true lillusionist for the pvp side of things and as a added bonuse any one that damages the confused target gets like 5% damage and condi damage bonuse on that target. as of right now i see anet is in a cornor for mes if they nerf it they kitten all the mes off and if they dont the class stays brocken right now so they in a big cornor on what to do.

 

Unless you are doing this in PvE? You are wrong. You can't 100% reset phantasms with signet heal in PvP. It is literally not possible

 

Also how are you weapon swapping in combat without waiting 9s?

[Solori.6025]

Delete this

[Belishine.7493]

its like a 4 or so seconds for me to swap wepons but sure how im doing it but i am none the less i am still makeing a strong point here mes needs a strong rebalance to fix it. i can do 30+k easy as a mes with little skill and yet everyone is like no mes is in a good spot for a change but its only good for trolling not for real play becouse its so easy to do stuff. I still think confusion needs a rework were it will confuse the target in the way it makes all the targes allies seem like the mesmer. The fact that i can get 3 clones and 4 phantoms out at one point in time and then shater for like 30+k then add in any condi i want to that to see a person flat out melt is fun for the troll but just flat out sucks for everyone witch is why i stoped playing mes. its just not fun other then to purely troll other players. The idea is cool but the play is just a trash troll class that needs a huge fix inorder to bring it in line with other classes. Ill also say this if you get any other class that can do what mes is doing you will say they are brocken and need fixed so why in the hell is mes geting the free pass on this and yet its one of the most brocken classes in the game?

[Solori.6025]

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> its like a 4 or so seconds for me to swap wepons but sure how im doing it but i am none the less i am still makeing a strong point here mes needs a strong rebalance to fix it. i can do 30+k easy as a mes with little skill and yet everyone is like no mes is in a good spot for a change but its only good for trolling not for real play becouse its so easy to do stuff. I still think confusion needs a rework were it will confuse the target in the way it makes all the targes allies seem like the mesmer. The fact that i can get 3 clones and 4 phantoms out at one point in time and then shater for like 30+k then add in any condi i want to that to see a person flat out melt is fun for the troll but just flat out sucks for everyone witch is why i stoped playing mes. its just not fun other then to purely troll other players. The idea is cool but the play is just a trash troll class that needs a huge fix inorder to bring it in line with other classes. Ill also say this if you get any other class that can do what mes is doing you will say they are brocken and need fixed so why in the hell is mes geting the free pass on this and yet its one of the most brocken classes in the game?

 

.....like it would be great if you could link a build where you get 4s of weapon swap. Would love to see that.

Or are you loading phantasms as a utility? In which case I would still love to see that build and how it's even remotely successful in today's meta.

Like I'm not sure if you are returning back to the game and going off old knowledge? Or if you're PvEing and making the argument for mes nerfs?

Like going off your post.

I assume you're using damage traitlines duel and Dom. With chrono. So we have of course Chronophantasma. GS/ SW&shield.

 

...yea A build would be great. I'm still curious how you get 8 persisting illusions up

 

Edit:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

 

^ there is a build editor you can use.

 

EDIT:

Ok So.

You need mirror images and imagined burden with chrono phantasma

precast gs phantasm hit CS pop MI CS ends Gs4

 

You will have 7 illusions for 1s

I don't know how much damage this does because IIRC no one in their right mind uses imagined burden.

From preliminary testing though.

You would be very very VEEERRYYY lucky to have all of this go off and the target needs to be very much squish ( like berserk amulet on an ele squish) for this to do decent damage since phantasms with Chrono phantasma have been nerfed to hell and back.

and you can reliably do this once every 90 ish seconds . .

 

 

[Belishine.7493]

ok so you have like 90% of this down so ill say very nice on you. I will need to relook into everyone i do for mes but from what i still experance is not mutch from when i left from like 5 or 6 months ago from mes. Now i know if you can do it right you can get most players from stealth and one shot them with little skill. for me mes is still in this state were it wants to be a trolling class but in the way its built its not about you controling like a illusionist witch is what a mes is in all lore and in most games. I know i hit mes so hard that it seems like im just a hater im just pushing on the mes cracks to try to get them ironed out so the class is in a more balanced line with all the other classes. I love the Mirage but wow its so brocken for pve and pvp content that i just reap everthing like its nothing even champs i know legendary is hard to fight for mes but as it states it should be hard for all. As for the build i use it depends on what i feel like for that day but it ether chrono or mirage for my set up and then i use in chrono healing sig blink decoy if in wvw i use portal or in pvp i use the dome or the one for 2 clones and i use mass invis. As for mirage its more of mes around the field build that give all clones mirage and i try to get high endurence recovery. You can use the same skills as chrono if you want or switch them up. you see the invis and then the clone making and the phantom generation can over whelm the groups in pvp easy and if you know what to do you can do a triple shater with chrono to kill the full team in like 5 seconds so ya its brocken in my view of game play and balance.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> ok so you have like 90% of this down so ill say very nice on you. I will need to relook into everyone i do for mes but from what i still experance is not mutch from when i left from like 5 or 6 months ago from mes. Now i know if you can do it right you can get most players from stealth and one shot them with little skill. for me mes is still in this state were it wants to be a trolling class but in the way its built its not about you controling like a illusionist witch is what a mes is in all lore and in most games. I know i hit mes so hard that it seems like im just a hater im just pushing on the mes cracks to try to get them ironed out so the class is in a more balanced line with all the other classes. I love the Mirage but wow its so brocken for pve and pvp content that i just reap everthing like its nothing even champs i know legendary is hard to fight for mes but as it states it should be hard for all. As for the build i use it depends on what i feel like for that day but it ether chrono or mirage for my set up and then i use in chrono healing sig blink decoy if in wvw i use portal or in pvp i use the dome or the one for 2 clones and i use mass invis. As for mirage its more of mes around the field build that give all clones mirage and i try to get high endurence recovery. You can use the same skills as chrono if you want or switch them up. you see the invis and then the clone making and the phantom generation can over whelm the groups in pvp easy and if you know what to do you can do a triple shater with chrono to kill the full team in like 5 seconds so ya its brocken in my view of game play and balance.

 

.....this is really...really hard to read.......

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Was just in wvw and a Chrono was 1vs5 and it took the group multiple tries to down him,people on sidelines where commenting cmon guys can’t be that hard,they finally downed him after almost 10 mins of all five on him,a few died and respawned and rejoined the fight, seems real balanced lol can’t believe anyone would defend this class as not being op. It ridiculously obvious,

[Skada.1362]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Was just in wvw and a Chrono was 1vs5 and it took the group multiple tries to down him,people on sidelines where commenting cmon guys can’t be that hard,they finally downed him after almost 10 mins of all five on him,a few died and respawned and rejoined the fight, seems real balanced lol can’t believe anyone would defend this class as not being op. It ridiculously obvious,

 

I can go full Nomad Daredevil and achieve even better results. Same thing can be said about many, many classes. HURR DURRRR Subjectivizzzm

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Was just in wvw and a Chrono was 1vs5 and it took the group multiple tries to down him,people on sidelines where commenting cmon guys can’t be that hard,they finally downed him after almost 10 mins of all five on him,a few died and respawned and rejoined the fight, seems real balanced lol can’t believe anyone would defend this class as not being op. It ridiculously obvious,

Such a build is literally dead weight in smallscale and can just barely cap a T0 camp alone within a tick. I've seen them before and yeah they can be insanely hard to bring down but when fighting a group containing them you literally ignore them until its time to pile onto them.

[Curunen.8729]

I second the idea that these bunker style chronos in wvw are no threat at all, they're just built to sustain which by the way a number of other classes can also do on the right build... Focus another class so as not to waste damage output.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > Jawgeous is the last person to be saying anything about any class. He's played Holo and had no problems with how broken its sustain was and still complained about Revenants.

> >

> > But like I wrote, no one will be happy unless the Mesmer class is completely gone from this game - no matter how bad they nerf their abilities/traits.

>

> I wrote this on 13 October:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > Apparently is op until someone plays it.

> > Yesterday I was watching a stream, I never watch these but a friend told me the streamer had insides concerning incoming nerfs.

> > The streamer rolled a mirage, got into a pvp match while exclaming even a monkey could play mirage.

> > Match over, 5 deaths 2 kills

>

> I was actually referring to jawgeous.

>

> Everyone spamming his video is as clueless as he is regarding mesmer.

> It takes less than a minute on the video to figure out he has no idea about mesmer.

 

He even complains about ele.

 

Let that sink in a sec.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I agree,with that said no class should have access to a build that out sustains 5 opponents beating on it, the group had to regroup multiple times to reset their cooldowns multiple times. Whether or not it’s effective in large groups doesn’t make that ok in any way . The Chrono was hopping between the group waiting for the next group go at him lol. I amagine solo or group roaming or in pvp he’d be ridiculous

[Psycoprophet.8107]

And in 3 yrs I’ve never seen onother class out sustain 5v1 over multiple attempts by the group

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Druid in the good old days may have came close but would have done significantly less damage,boonbeast maybe a 3v1 if the rangers good but won’t be hopping around 5 opponents in between resets like it’s nothing. Even all specs of guards would drop fast to focus like that once it used all its sustain skills up

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Skada.1362" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Was just in wvw and a Chrono was 1vs5 and it took the group multiple tries to down him,people on sidelines where commenting cmon guys can’t be that hard,they finally downed him after almost 10 mins of all five on him,a few died and respawned and rejoined the fight, seems real balanced lol can’t believe anyone would defend this class as not being op. It ridiculously obvious,

>

> I can go full Nomad Daredevil and achieve even better results. Same thing can be said about many, many classes. HURR DURRRR Subjectivizzzm

 

I call BS on that hard

[apharma.3741]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> And in 3 yrs I’ve never seen onother class out sustain 5v1 over multiple attempts by the group

 

You obviously never saw spellbreaker on PoF launch when there's 0 scourges around, they would sustain vs 7 people easily. Add kite spots to LoS (so ruins in the middle of the alpine border) and they could be jumping around for 10 minutes without being pressured too much.

 

Then there's the problem with WvW. The average player in WvW is bad. Really bad. I mean have auto target on and only auto attack bad. I've literally jumped into a group of players as glass cannon, got all attention on me from 4 players and just run around a little out of range while my friend kills them all, as ele.

 

BONUS: Druid can effectively troll mass numbers of players still as many nerfs weren't brought over from PvP. Soulbeast is even worse if that's at all possible. Holo can reset with rocket boots and invis but even worse is a genuine threat. Ever see the perma dodge nomads daredevil? Yeah that was a thing and it took great timing to bring down otherwise was in evades for over 50% of the time.

 

There are and have been plenty of builds that could sustain a 1v5 against the random trash players you find in WvW. Even if you're the 1 good player out of those 5 the other 4 can effectively keep feeding the sustain in many builds making it harder for you.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I can say I can do 1vs20 with no gear and level 2 weapons, doesn’t make it true,show us in video superstar.ud be the only DD to be able to out sustain 5 opponents focusing u multiple attempts,sry but ur full of shit!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> I can say I can do 1vs20 with no gear and level 2 weapons, doesn’t make it true,show us in video superstar.ud be the only DD to be able to out sustain 5 opponents focusing u multiple attempts,sry but ur full of kitten!

 

There was a video couple of years ago of sanic doing precisely that with nomad staff dd. If anyone knows the link care to share it here.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

U do realize how ridiculous saying just ignore a spec because it’s basically unkillable and would be a waste of damage trying sounds as a defence right? Blind bias never a good defence

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I can say I can do 1vs20 with no gear and level 2 weapons, doesn’t make it true,show us in video superstar.ud be the only DD to be able to out sustain 5 opponents focusing u multiple attempts,sry but ur full of kitten!

>

> There was a video couple of years ago of sanic doing precisely that with nomad staff dd. If anyone knows the link care to share it here.

 

Powercreep is on a different level from 2 yrs ago and DD has ate nurfs since,2 yr vid is irrelevant when comparing to today’s iteration of the game. Yea and that spell breaker was op at that time to,what does that change? Druids sustain was hit by nurfs due to constant op complaints so? Pointing out when other classes were over performing doesn’t mean mes isnt.